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Presumptive" Means That Something Is Presumed To Be True, NOT That It IS True.

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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:54 AM
Original message
Presumptive" Means That Something Is Presumed To Be True, NOT That It IS True.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:00 AM by indimuse
Not So Fast!



Barack Obama (D-Ill.) announced that, following the West Virginia, Oregon and Kentucky primaries, on May 20th, he is going to declare himself the victor and presumptive Democratic nominee.

Not so fast, Sen. Obama. Let's talk. To be perfectly clear, the word "presumptive" means that something is presumed to be true, not that it IS true. You seem to be getting a bit ahead of things here. Additionally, this begs the question presumed by whom? Your campaign? Your supporters? Your adoring media?

Certainly not by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) or her campaign staff or supporters, who are ready to take the nomination all the way to the convention floor in Denver if need be.

And, by the way, aren't there some issues that you and Sen. Clinton have to resolve before the Democratic Party rolls out the red carpet and coronates you, Sen. Obama? Some minor issues, perhaps, like not disenfranchising more than 1.75 million Florida voters and more than 590,000 Michigan voters who cast their ballots for a Democratic candidate?

Let's deal in facts, Sen. Obama. On September 1, 2007, you and Democratic presidential candidates Sen. Clinton and former Sen. John Edwards (D-N.C.) signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida, Michigan or other states "trying to leapfrog" the official 2008 primary calendar set by the Democratic National Committee for Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina.

In particular, the pledge "was devised" to prevent candidates like you from campaigning in Florida, where the primary was set for January 29, 2008, and Michigan, which was trying to move its primary to January 15, 2008. Unfairly or not, the DNC threatened to take away all of Florida's 210 delegates if it did not obey.

Even though you and the other Democratic candidates signed the pledge agreeing not to campaign in Michigan, on October 9, 2007, a spokesperson for the Michigan Secretary of State Office said that you and Sen. Edwards and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson had taken things to the extreme and "filed paperwork to boycott" the Michigan ballot. Lynda Waddington of the Iowa Independent discovered that the move had been a politically strategic one to hinder Sen. Clinton's campaign and wrote October 11, 2007:



Five individuals connected to five different campaigns have confirmed -- but only under condition of anonymity -- that the situation that developed in connection with the Michigan ballot is not at all as it appears on the surface. The campaign for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, arguably fearing a poor showing in Michigan, reached out to the others with a desire of leaving New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as the only candidate on the ballot. The hope was that such a move would provide one more political obstacle for the Clinton campaign to overcome in Iowa.

As blogger Taylor Marsh commented October 9, 2007, "This is horrific politics, especially if you're looking long-term and towards the general election. You know, thinking about something beyond your own presidential possibilities. and Clinton are in," adding Taylor Marsh::: http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=26365

As for Clinton, she's thinking long-term and looking towards the general election and what could happen to Democrats if we stiff arm Michigan. If we're facing Romney, that's a real issue, because Michigan is home turf for Slick Mitt. Edwards and Obama should be thinking the same way. However, because they're tied to the outcome in Iowa they're obviously scared to leave; that applies doubly to Edwards. But it's pathetic.

George Weeks warned you and your companions in the October 14, 2007, issue of the Record-Eagle, "Woe be to those 2008 Democratic contenders who boycott Michigan's Jan. 15 presidential primary. Those who don't contend in January should suffer in November."

On December 1, 2007, the DNC stripped Michigan, the eighth largest state, of its 156 delegates for moving its primary date to January 15, 2008. Florida, the fourth largest state, had been hit "with a similar penalty", stripped of its 210 delegates in August 2007 for scheduling a January 29, 2008 primary.

Then we have the little matter of that campaign to lose the Michigan primary, Sen. Obama. You remember that one don't you, when your supporters Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Detroit City Councilwoman Monica Conyers produced and aired campaign ads urging voters to cast "uncommitted" ballots in Michigan's Democratic presidential primary?
Monica Conyers::http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/21/143036/993


You remember, don't you, that on January 10, 2008, Nick Bunkley reported in the New York Times' "The Caucus blog" that the Conyers were urging voters "to vote 'uncommitted' to help gain momentum and to deal a setback" to Sen. Clinton? New groups, including Michiganders for Obama, Michigan for Edwards and the newly formed Detroiters for Uncommitted Voters, "campaign door-to-door, on the phone and at rallies, spreading the uncommitted message."

The day before the Michigan primary, on Janurary 14, 2008, the Detroit News reported that surrogates representing you and Sen. Edwards were spreading the word by mouth and letters to the editor urging voters to opt for "uncommitted." FYI, that's called campaigning, Sen. Obama.

It also raises the question as to whether those who were voting "uncommitted" understood that they were being used as pawns in a political game that skirted on the edge of FEC rules on what constitutes electioneering.

And then we come to those January 2008 cable ads shown on CNN and MSNBC that just happened to overflow into the Florida demographic. You and your campaign knew that this would happen. Instead of standing by your pledge to not campaign in Florida, you chose to break it when you could have avoided doing so by making your ad buys state by state or market by market. Would it have cost more? Certainly. But was saving money more important than standing behind your word? It would seem so. Cable Ads::: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8019.html

One more thing. What happened at that Tampa fundraiser on September 30, 2007, Sen. Obama, when you held a "brief news conference outside." It was "less than a day after the pledge took effect" and you were the "first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida" and you broke your pledge, just like that! Snap! http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking



But then, primaries in states like Florida and Michigan "have no bearing on the Democratic nomination contest" your campaign said on January 15, 2008. States like Florida and Ohio don't matter, or at least that's what one of your campaign memos said a couple weeks ago.

Somehow it doesn't seem likely that states like Florida and Michigan share your view of their place in the election process, Sen. Obama. Sound money says that every state considers itself equally important whether you think so or not.

No deals, either, Sen. Obama. EVERY vote counts, you can't pick and chose; EVERY voter deserves to have his or her vote counted and voice heard, not discounted. Remember the Declaration of Independence? The Founding Fathers were either all in or all out to ratify it, nothing in between. Voters deserve nothing less from those who want to represent them.

So here's the bottom line. You took your name off the Michigan ballot. No delegates. You chose to skirt the rules about campaigning in Florida. No delegates. You agreed to be all in. You cheated. You lose. Voters deserve better





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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. KICK!!!!
HA!
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Michael Jackson wants his leather jacket back!
:rofl:
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not so fast strawman. Crreate A BOLDED QUOTE TO TAKE YOUR shot
that is not attributed to anyone. Because no one will take responsibility for it.

A straw man argument can be set up in several ways, including:

1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.<1>
2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context -- i.e., choosing quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).<2>
3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender and then refuting that person's arguments, thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.<1>
4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, such that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking the simplified version.


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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Read and LEARN or shut up!
!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. It has information not fitting the point omitted, Ommitting info when its convienent is LYING
Good luck with the attitude adjustment.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. YOU are talking about Obama and Company.....
The list of "omissions/ LIES is quite impressive! In fact...Much longer than his achievements in ANY OFFICE!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Bwhahahaha, welcome to egypt because "Da Nile" aint just a river
Bwahahahahahah
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
82. List them then.
Invariably you guys fail to produce anything to back up the bullshit claims you make.

I've been keeping track;

Nothing;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5846119&mesg_id=5846748

Nothing;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5774591&mesg_id=5774851

Nothing;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5749919&mesg_id=5759815

Complete idiocy;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5800373&mesg_id=5801211

Asking for back up of bullshit claims;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5768035&mesg_id=5772445
(no response)

Another request to back up a bullshit claim of Obama being 'dirty';
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5771056&mesg_id=5774788
(no response)

Bill from CT runs away;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5784917#5786671

Clinton supporter asks for back up, gets loads of it in minutes;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5748700#5749807

Oh, now here's a REAL classy Clinton supporter saying "Fuck the will of the people!";
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5793971#5817267



You live in a fantasy world. Now, consider this post yet another request for a Clinton supporter to back up a bullshit claim of "The list of "omissions/ LIES is quite impressive! In fact...Much longer than his achievements in ANY OFFICE!"

And welcome to the Pantheon of Delusion!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #82
91. Tick... tick...tick....
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought.

Expect to be featured when I do a "Hillary supporters are full of shit" thread.

Thanks.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
100. Big fat nothing.
"Thank you for visiting the reality-based community. We look forward to seeing you again after your rectal-cranial extraction. Please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out as it may complicate your condition."
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. hysterical bullshit
big, bold, red hysterical bullshit.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. hey cali!
I wanna know...are you alergic to fact? Does it make you itch or something? If so..you might wanna put me back on ignore...:)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
48. LOL! Are you kidding? Put you on ignore now?
No way. And you wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you.
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
88. K&R
Great Post!!!

Thanks indiumuse!

The truth will win out in the end! Go Hillary!!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. Same challenge to you;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5896810&mesg_id=5897454

This will be another one of those threads I pepper with the questions and get nothing from you people.

You guys are completely full of shit.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
92. Maybe if you had some facts,
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I like the Duran Duran portrait in your sigline, but it's a beast
You may have no more than one image (.jpg or .gif format) in your signature line at any time. This image may not exceed 500 pixels wide, 200 pixels tall, or a file size of 20 kilobytes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

You took your name off the Michigan ballot. No delegates.

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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. Make.Love.Not.War ... Time to Unite around our Official Nominee
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Obama is a CHEATER!
Time for him to step outta the way!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Good luck with that goal post.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:08 AM by Boz
Be sure to martyr her.

She lost see ya.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. See ya at the convention!

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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Wouldnt call her madame, she was the wife not the mistress remember
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
71. cute.
NOT!
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
73. Doubtful, this will be done soon
Hillary, and her supporters like you, just look ridiculous now.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. We don't have an official nominee..
one of our candidates is a fraud.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. bingo!
!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Yes one is a fraud, Yes she can can
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:17 AM by Boz


and no even this wont help Hillary be less of a fraud

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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. You're right, she is a fraud.
Glad you finally came around. Welcome!!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
99. As usual, distortions are your friend..
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
11. Obama and Supprters Trying to STEAL Election!
Dirty!!!!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. You really should relax and lay off the salt, it will help your wounds, and heal the party
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Oh, I'm relaxed.
Truth is on our side!


Stay tuned. :)
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Ive been waiting for your point for a while, and shes still losing
Your starting to look like liek those doomsday cults that go out to the desert and it neer comes , How many "stay tuned" "here it comes" "just a few more day" moments do you expect before people start laughing at you.

Oh wait, I meant continue to laugh at you louder.

Here this might help for perspective

http://members.tripod.com/homehealth/index-30.html

PREPARE FOR H2K8

Yeah aint gonna happen anymore than Y2k did.

Get out of the basement. Eat some more twinkies.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #29
38. do I look like a "twinky" eater!
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:43 AM by indimuse
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Are you saying women dont eat twinkies? or that squashed images imply
twinkie shrapnelessness
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. NO! I'm saying...
I don't sit around my computer all day munching.. I have more important things to achieve than to educate you Obama peeps.
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. The twinkie reference was to y2k not you or your twinkie consumption although the parsing that
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:59 AM by Boz
most Hillary supporters do often confuses them about context so I understand.

Really I understand, it will all be better when you wake up.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #44
74. wink.
.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. How much money did you flush down the drain donating to Hillary?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. Are you completely out of your mind?
Do you think that your insane rants convince anyone? You are so beyond the pale that you're being laughed at.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Laughed at here at DU...Big DEAL!
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:32 AM by indimuse
You Obamacans are the LEAST informed ...ha! Least impressive...ZERO to offer, BUT great at ATTACKS! Just like Obama's Caucus Workers...Violent!
http://www.videospider.tv/Videos/Detail/3662885736.aspx
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. You obviously think something is a BIG DEAL about DU or you wouldn't continue posting
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:42 AM by Boz
And your video is a fraud too.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. how so?
I've been coming to Du for years...Used to feel like home.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
22. McCain isn't the nominee until September
:tinfoilhat:

It's all about probabilities.



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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
24. It's over
Obama has 1590.5 pledged delegates.

Under approtionment, Obama will gain at least one delegate for each remaining congressinoal district.

37 congressional districts remain.

1590.5+37=1627.5

That's a majority of the pledged delegates.

The inly way Clinton can win is to convince a super majority of the super delegates to overturn the results of all these elections.

It ain't happening.

Get on board for the big win in November.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Because YOU Obama supporters "ignore' fact...
You wouldn't understand our position. The Truth will set you free... See ya at the convention. And as I said last night in one of my threads...I hope Hillary EXPOSES BO, in front of the entire nation...SNAP!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. You think shes keeping her powder dry, if she had anything it would have been out there already
Otherwise shes not a good Democrat and only in it for herself, if she wont protect us from him unless she needs to for her own purposes.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Dignity and Integrity!
Something, Obama could learn.
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. And you have learned this about her from where, When have you had counsel with her
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:54 AM by Boz
Your opinion is a DRONE from the media and your choices of images and words.

There is no reality to your thought that she is Dignified any more than your thought that he is not.

Wake up to the real world.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
52. Guess who else is ignoring "fact"? The SDs
Obama has netted 15 in the last 4 days. Hillykins has lost 3. waahh. so sorry.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #52
70. It ain't over til,,,it is!
Obama should respect that, as should ALL Dem's IF they ( the winner) want OUR vote! If he so arrogantly declares this...HE IS OVER!



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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #70
81.  that was a couple of weeks ago....
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
80. The fact is , she can't win. It's over. Period. End of story.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
95. Let's SEE those facts. Let's SEE that "position".
You've never made the case. All you do is level unsupported accusations and then slink away when someone asks you to back it up.

Here you go;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5896810&mesg_id=5897454
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. There might be one or two in KY at risk actually - but your point stands.
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mrbluto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
94. Super delegates don't "overturn" elections.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 08:45 AM by mrbluto
They vote.

If they don't vote for somebody who won more popular votes in a particular district then what is it?

A vote.

They are in NO way beholden to the popular vote.

That's the way the system is set up. Obama knew it.

If you asked him that's what he'd say away from any cameras.

If they don't vote Obama it will not be a case where they "overturn the results of all these elections."

Is there any part of that you can't understand?

By-the-way; If during the first vote no clear (i.e. reaching the minimum, having a plurality is not good enough) nominee emerges then the next round they are free to vote for whoever they damn well please.

I'm sure you did a spit take at that little tidbit.

Let me repeat:

free to vote for whoever they damn well please.

My money is on Edwards.

That's our best chance for a huge win in November.

I advise you to get on board if that train shows up at the station.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
25. It's over. Why continue with these rants?
There is no possible way that hillary is going to get the nomination, especially after her very offernsive statements in over the last couple of days. Even if the Michigan and Florida delegates were seated as is, hillary would still lose. Of course only a fool would believe that Michigan would count as is when Obama wasn't even on the ballot. Your fake outrage about Michigan and Florida is completely transparent as is hillary's. If Hillary was winning and Obama suggested seating the delegates if they favored him , you would screeching like a banshee.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. What did she say that was SOOOO defensive?
Fact = Swiftboat again...? Or is it the White thing...C'mon...really. Black voters...vote for BO, right? So now the word WHITE is some how TABOO? This primary is so f*cked up!

Have you people ever heard of Demographics...? Obama is a race baiter!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Its the shifting and pandering and telling everyone what they want to hear, the race thing was just
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:55 AM by Boz
a side effect of that becasue she had to say it to some people.

Shes not a racist, Shes not a down home pennsylvania born girl, Shes not a blue collar friend, shes not a deocrat.

She just plays one on TEEEVVVVVEEEE

Its that that has put her in the hot seat, try to be everything to everyone and you will piss someone off somewhere when your pretending to be the other one.

Oh and the lies about rules and goals and measures
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsYnegoV28

Let alone about her personal experiences
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #43
54. and..so you don't care about BO stealing Hillary's valid votes to claim victory?




Re : video :: Does BO have 2025? NO!!!


He Is NOT the NOM...He needs Super Dels to win! How is that different than Hillary?
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #34
77. What are your plans when Hillary is officially branded as the loser.
Seriously, whatever will you do??
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
41. Presumptive - it relates to probability - Merriam Webster
1 : based on probability or presumption <the presumptive nominee>
2 : giving grounds for reasonable opinion or belief

It is not ASSUMPTION, it is based on "reasonable evidence." Obama is the presumptive nominee.

And I guess we can all presume that Hillary will come up with a series of bullshit arguments like this one.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. what ever...Obama is declaring HIMSELF?? hahah!
Get real!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Again do not confuse the media to the man. It will save you alot of pain
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #47
55. You mean BO's Media???







These guys???
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. Seek help, Ill see ya on the other side, I can no longer continue
Edited on Fri May-09-08 06:23 AM by Boz
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. haha!
toodles!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #62
75. Thank you!
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. Yeah, he's all alone out there, declaring himself
Pretending he is leading in delegates and all that. Stupid, pretending that actual vote totals will get you the nomination!

I think Hillary's "premature presumption" is what got her into this mess in the first place.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #50
61. He can't YOU can't The Media can't !
There are ROOOLZ!!!!! YOu guys are joke!
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. Anybody can -- the term presumptive means making an assessment of probability
Make a comparison of probability, in terms of numbers.

=Obama, presumptive nominee
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Can you provide the quote you base this on?
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #51
66. I guess I needed a sarcasm tag
Here it is: :sarcasm:
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #66
84. My question was for indiemuse :)
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boobooday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. Urp.
Duh!

:hi:
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
45. It is over Obama won and Hillary has lost deal w/ it.
As for your screed about Michigan and Florida you are just
moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic. "Quick come
use this one it has the best view of the icebergs." There is no
way that those votes are going to count because that would be
changing the rules after the game has been played .... rules
Hillary agreed to and signed off on.

BTW her staff is already making book deals and looking for
new jobs they know it is over and so should you.

:hi: to Team Hillary in Alexandria, VA

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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
57. Obama LOST!
He is a CHEAT! This WILL be revealed Nationwide!

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/elections/15640-alert-spread-word-o-bomba-dirty-tricks-tx-oh.html#post327297
Quote:
I’m receiving reports that contrary to Texas Democratic party caucus rules that preclude registration forms from being submitted before either 7:15 pm or the last vote

at a precinct has been cast, Obama volunteers are handing out the forms at precincts today and asking people to fill them in and then collecting them. For Obama to

submit the forms on the voters’ behalf without the voter physically being present at the caucus would violate the rules.

Spread the word at your favorite site!

Obama Campaign Operatives Caught Violating Texas Election Law 3/04/2008 2:00 EST In Texas, the reports get worse. Obama's team are evidently copying caucus

forms and having their supporters fill them out prior to the 7:15 p.m. deadline when the caucus is called to order. This means the voter wouldn't have to actually attend

the caucus, but instead would simply have the Obama team hand in the caucus forms for the voter, which is clearly against the rules, which are very clear:

Participants may NOT begin signing in until the precinct convention has been called to order. The call to order may not occur until 7:15 p.m. OR whenever the last

voter finishes voting at that polling location whichever is later. If, after the convention has been called to order and participants have signed in, any participant who

wishes to leave may do so, and their sign in WILL count toward the delegate allocation for each candidate. Sign-In ends when the last person present waiting to sign in

has done so. Yet another example of Barack Obama's "change" agenda, on the way to a different kind of politics. Chicago style, baby. The reports of what the Obama

campaign is doing in Ohio and Texas are astonishing. First of all, the Obama campaign is wrong on the facts and on the law; second, challenging voters is what

Republicans do to Democrats, especially to minority Democrats. This is the example Obama wants to set? This is the politics of hope and unity? What a

disappointing charade. The Obama campaign is desperate. Spread the word.
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. It is very telling that you both use and represent a domain called "argue with everyone . com"
Hope you make it passed the purge, if not its been real.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #57
78. Dear Lord. Please help this fool.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #57
79. Your are so deep in Da Nile that you should look out for crocodiles.


It is over Obama will be the nominee.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #57
83. You have gone completely off the deep end.
Now you just look silly.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
49. You know . . . posts like this one are beginning to sound a tad pathetic. nt
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shrub chipper Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
53. wow
Edited on Fri May-09-08 06:06 AM by shrub chipper
This is just...I don't know...kind of sad and pathetic and also emblematic of the harm Hillary is doing to the Party by continuing her charade of a campaign.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
56. Kick for Nominee Obama!
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. thanks!
Say it with me...Madame President. :)








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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. Say it with me to blind to see what he meant in the REC
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #63
67. you are soo funny...
Edited on Fri May-09-08 06:30 AM by indimuse
lol... I know what he meant. Thought you were going to sleep or something?


Obama supporters are the "Willing Blindeness" here!
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. No I decided to stay up and hit on you because you and hillary are so hot
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. lol!!!
So you like Danger? lol....
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Boz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. Its the leather, just screams bad girl
Edited on Fri May-09-08 06:54 AM by Boz
And big brains are sexy. Although that kinda rules out Hillary
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
64. Oh my dear indimuse? Consider breaking through that denial?
Both candidates agreed to the DNC rules. Your heroine even said OUTRIGHT and "on tape" that Michigan is NOT going to count.

It's over sans if Rev. Wright has a crazy friend who's also Barack Obama's twin.

As the GOP says, Unless he's caught with a live boy or a dead girl in his bed, Obama's our Democratic Nominee. :wow: ;)

It's time for some reflection and soul searching on HRC 's supporters part.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
97. Good luck with that.
I've been trying to get substantiation out of these people for months now to no avail.

They can't back up what they say, yet they believe it. It's borderline psychotic.

You may find this amusing;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5896810&mesg_id=5897454
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
86. This is what the term "presumptive" is used for in politics.
I'm all for the Clinton campaign continuing for as long as it can (I think), and even for finding some legal and ethical way to win her the nomination...but get used to hearing Obama described as the "presumptive nominee," even if his status as such is less clear than is McCain's. The MSM has enjoyed prolonging the fight, but they also enjoy coronations, and I think we're beginning to see them signing on. I think.

I don't believe that this is completely fair to Clinton, but her status as a contender has also been artifically prolonged by the same MSM, despite her having remained behind for so long. She's not going to win by gaining delegates in primaries/caucuses, so we can begin to presume that Obama will still have that lead at convention time--whatever else might happen.
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nomorewhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
87. the bottom line is that FL and MI won't change the outcome of this race anymore. She lost.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
89. did you skip the thorazine today?
:rofl:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
90. ah, the smell of delusion in the morning!!!
she lost poor shillbot, but banky will make it allllll better;
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
96. A special gift just for you...
The five stages of grief:

Denial (this isn't happening to me!)

Anger (why is this happening to me?)

Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)

Depression (I don't care anymore)

Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
98. Presumed To Be True...like Gravity.
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