Who, specifically, wanted to move the MI and FL primaries up?

[olkaz]

I wish I had the time to do the investigative reporting on this, but I'm going to have to relent to you guys for insight.

My question is, who, specifically, wanted MI and FL to move up their primary dates? Being that they did this at their own peril (and were even told outright that they would not count), I'm really curious as to the motivations and favorite nominee of the people involved.

I have some theories rolling around in my head, but I don't want to insinuate anything until I understand what really happened.

I heard on AAR that one of the states' representatives (I think Michigan) said that they would "rather have a chance at a say in the process than tickets to a party". This got my wheels turning, and I really want to know more. Feed me your input and links!

Please?

[goodhue]

1. The state democratic parties in Michigan and Florida

eom

[olkaz]

4. That's TOO VAGUE.

I'm talking about names. There has to have been specific people who pushed for this.

[BlooInBloo]

10. There's nothing "too vague" about it. It's the correct answer.

[olkaz]

16. ...

I was looking for names. Of course I know the group.

There have to be specific individuals who were pushing it. That's who I am after.

[Quixote1818]

2. In Florida a Democrat proposed it but I don't know who he was. nt

[NC_Nurse]

3. Look up madfloridian's posts. He has posted a lot about it.

[olkaz]

5. yeah, I've kept up with his posts

I think I probably need to go back through again.

Plus, I need more information on Michigan, which isn't really that available, as far as I can find.

[madfloridian]

11. I am a she, and here is a fairly recent compiled list.

The more recent ones are accessible in my Journal.


Updated list of my journal postings about the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1906

Florida Democrats invade Georgia
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1905

Dean told not to plan a vacation in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1902

Court decision on March 17 could determine who Democratic nominee is.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1897

Florida Democrats thought they would only lose "half" the delegates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1903

Dean says FL and MI would not negotiate with the DNC...took it public
instead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1888

Florida, Michigan and the Jackasses That Over-reached
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1890

Tampa op ed: "Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1875

Terry McAuliffe wants to change horses in the middle of the stream.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1882

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary
bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in
Denver.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

The worst part is that this very day FL Dems still shift blame....
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1870

Is Hillary's campaign being run as a "shadow DNC" for her benefit?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1883

More Florida shenanigans and more insults to Dean from that state.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1858

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's
rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a
"voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the
DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to
let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local
email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in
chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument
here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone
call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to
Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had
to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I
must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary
that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get
near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[olkaz]

15. Alright, well, that's PLENTY of Florida homework!

Have you read of anybody doing the same work for Michigan? There **has** to be a connection.

[donheld]

6. Madfloridian has written exensively about that

Why not read her journal?

[olkaz]

7. I have, I was hoping for more

And specifically, more Michigan information.

Names.

[madfloridian]

9. I am a she, and IMHO MI and FL coordinated.....

and worked with the Clinton superdelegates. I have no proof of that.

[BlooInBloo]

12. I always heard you were a great guy!

:rofl:

:hide:

[olkaz]

14. Sorry!

Thanks for all your work, I'm trying to get through all of it!

Your writings have definitely piqued my interest.

[madfloridian]

8. Many have ideas about why and who....but no proof.

I can tell you that FL Dems worked quite well with the Republicans to get it through, and then pretended they were victims.

This is the guy who introduced the bill at first....read the arrogance in his words. Then you can draw your own conclusion.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

Here is the Quicktime video of when Geller introduced it in the senate...he was nearly laughing his ass off. You Tube took theirs down...convenient, huh?

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/files/geller_amendment_fullh.264%20300Kbps.mov

Myself? I believe it was coordinated by the Clinton superdelegates in FL and MI to leave a door open to the convention. That is IMHO...no proof.

[olkaz]

13. Thanks!

"Myself? I believe it was coordinated by the Clinton superdelegates in FL and MI to leave a door open to the convention. That is IMHO...no proof. "

These are the types of things I am wanting to hear. The motivations for this type of thing, and throwing the voters onto the tracks for it, astounds me.

Thanks for the links and the help.

PS: If Clinton delegates did this, wasn't this a needlessly risky strategy, at least when it was implemented? Do you really think they could have seen from that far off that they could challenge the disputed early votes? Their motivations are a complete mystery to me. My gut tells me that it was local politicians trying to show off to their state while privately knowing that the race would be over by that point anyway.

[madfloridian]

18. IMO.....no proof.

They wanted to be big shots, I thought at first. I can't speak for MI, but here it was planned propaganda from the start. With the FL bloggers going along with the state Democrats, never telling the whole truth.

But as I watched it unfold...there is no way in hell this was just an accidental thing unrelated to other events. It was too well planned. Emails went out the day after the FL vote.....trying to crash the DNC fundraising and putting the blame on Dean for "disenfranchisement".

If it smells like conspiracy, looks like conspiracy, and unfolds like one.....it well could be.

[redqueen]

17. Youtube took that down?

:wtf:

[madfloridian]

22. Yep, just the quicktime version now.

[blm]

23. I believe they wanted it to force a controversy with Dean so they could PUSH HIM OUT as DNC chair

after Hillary became the nominee on Super Tuesday and they would replace Dean with McAuliffe or Ford.

Their plan obviously tanked, and now she needed those delegates for her own survival - and possibly to keep the target on Dean, who, along with Kerry, has become a constant target for TeamClintons smears and attacks.

[mkultra]

19. the heads of teh state dem party and state poloticians

started a campaing something like "make Florida count" They were warned at that point but they ignored it. I think the head of the group is named geller or something.

[olkaz]

20. So they were forcing the issue while they already knew they wouldn't count.

Geller. Okay.

"Make Florida Count". So there was a PR campaign too?

[mkultra]

21. dont really know

if i had to guess i would say yes as they had to pass legislation to get it done.