Obama supporters, could you please think rationally about this?

[Phillycat]

Hillary Clinton, whatever else you might think of her, I think we can all agree is NOT STUPID. She knows it's over. Bill knows it's over. Hell, Socks knows it's over.

I am a Hillary supporter. I know it's over. I also know that it looks bad for Obama in the general to have lost two states (WV and KY) to someone who's not even running. So before you bring out the usual "Hillary is a crazed loon who will beat this thing into the ground because of her ego THAT BITCH", you might consider that something may have been worked out within the party for Hillary to provide political cover for the next 2 weeks in WV and KY. She might not drop out today, and it might not be because of all the hateful things you think about her. As a Hillary supporter coming to terms with the fact that I won't be voting for her in the general, I would appreciate it if you held your fucking fire until we see how this resolves. Thank you.

[seabeyond]

1. can you be rational. how do we get back florida and mich dems..

after blaming obama for something he had no part in and creating such divisiveness. if ALL feels it is over, then why destroy our candidate.

that makes NO sense.

[Phillycat]

4. I don't understand your post.

[seabeyond]

16. then let it go..... n/t

[Boz]

35. I don't understand either, How does her staying in "provide Political cover for him"

[LVjinx]

115. If nothing else, it keeps new voters excited and involved in the process

Have you seen McCains numbers since he got the nomination? I think about 5 people voted for him in North Carolina.

[Exilednight]

138. McSame recieved just under 400,000 votes out of 500,000 rethug votes cast. n/t

[roguevalley]

122. she has to say I quit before I believe her. she hasn't so I don't

believe she gets it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. Obama makes a gracious gesture, that's how

and Hillary who is popular with many Florida Democratic voters for a number of reasons, one of them being that she has fought to "have their votes counted" then stumps hard for Obama in Florida this summer.

[seabeyond]

15. ALL of that works for me.

thanks for sharing.

yes, exactly

[Mezzo]

61. you assume that it is 'destroying' your candidate...and that's bullshit.

[seabeyond]

62. you dont think it is causing a lot of anger with the dems in these two states

continually being told that it is because of obama that their vote is not being counted?

[countingbluecars]

2. If she is able to campaign in WV and KY

without attacking Obama, I may gain back a little of the respect I have lost for her.

[NotThisTime]

12. She will win both states without even campaigning there /nt

[countingbluecars]

28. But she is campaigning there,

and if she cares at all about this party, she needs to keep it positive.

[tekisui]

3. I agree.

I was heart broken when Kucinich and Edwards dropped. My only hope is if she stays in for a couple more weeks, she using the time and platform to help us mend fences. We need Party Unity for November. If she adopts a unity tone, it will be great for the Party. If she goes negative, the superdelegates may be forced to move.

She is not stupid, and I think she will do the right thing.

[yourguide]

5. Are you kidding?

She and her supporters have done nothing but fire fire fire since Feb 5, now you want us to hold our fire?

Search Rev Wright and Rezko on this board and lets talk about holding fire.

[Phillycat]

8. Your are Teh Classy.

[yourguide]

10. you are teh hypocrite.

[hokies4ever]

21. LOL!

:rofl:

[ampad]

73. LOL

Best laugh of the morning and you are correct. How many of them have I had to put on ignore because of their blatant racism only to find out a week or so latter they finally got the boot because they could not contain their hate.

[Phillycat]

74. I've posted on this website since 2001.

You really think I would have lasted this long if I were a racist? Why are you such an ass?

[Tyler Durden]

75. Nothing less than Unconditional Surrender is Racism.

I sick of both of them. I'm through with politics after the election. My energies are better spent in greenhousing and off grid power.

I'm headed to Northern Michigan, and I wish everyone a happy Depression, which likely will happen no matter who gets elected.

[Phillycat]

77. I hear ya.

I'm moving to Europe in September. I will vote absentee for the Dem nominee no matter who it is, but it doesn't scare me as much as it would otherwise, I'll tell you that.

Happy Depression to you too. :hug:

[Tyler Durden]

87. France, right?

We win the lottery, this sad excuse for a Republic will see our backsides once and for all.

[Phillycat]

88. Yep.

I'm lucky enough to be married to a European citizen (British). It's a lot harder to do if you're both American, but not impossible, and it might not cost as much as you think! The dream of moving to Europe always seemed like an unattainable one to me, but my husband has helped me to realize that it's really well within the realm of reality. All you have to do is take the steps to get from A to B - granted, sometimes there are a LOT of steps, but everything is possible. :hug:

[Tyler Durden]

90. We tried Canada. We didn't make the cut.

Life goes on.

[Phillycat]

91. Canada is very stringent, especially since 2000 and 2004.

Some of the European countries, especially the eastern European ones, which have thriving new economies and are politically stable democracies and beautiful to boot, have much more relaxed rules for immigration. No harm in looking into it. :) Dreams are good.

[Tyler Durden]

102. We're too old for most of them

Me: 55/Her: 51/Us: broke.

We're just going to have to batten down the hatches and keep loaded firearms at hand.

[yourguide]

82. your membership shows since 2004.

[Phillycat]

84. Before 2004, I posted under the name catpower2000

[Bake]

113. Really!! I remember you under your old name!!

I had no idea that was YOU!!

:hi:

Bake

[Phillycat]

117. Hee.

It's in my journal. :) I remember you too, of course. :hug:

[PoliticalAmazon]

97. The last person firing gets blamed for the entire war....

If one side--even if they were the worst aggressor ever--quits firing and the opponent continues to fire, the opponent will get blamed.

I've seen in frequently on message boards, especially when I moderated the ACLU boards where, because it was a free-speach zone, there were A LOT of rock-and-rolling flame wars.

I'm not saying you should change what you are doing, but perhaps watch the timing?

This is just me, but I believe we need to have some compassion for the Hillary supporters who suffered a devastating loss last night. Yes, some of them are asshats, but they are OUR asshats in the Democratic Party.

[yourguide]

124. The problem is the clinton campaign

is not acknowledging the loss. It's still business as usual. the race goes on.

[PoliticalAmazon]

128. I know. I hoped for better, but expected the same. n/t

[LSK]

111. I want you to hold your fire, PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE GE NOW

[yourguide]

123. I want clinton to drop out now. That simple. she has lost.

[WeDidIt]

6. She's going to take one for the team

She's scrambling for enough money to keep going until May 20.

I have regained my respect for Hillary Clinton. For her at this time, it's all about doing the right thing to insure a Democratic victory in November.

Kudoes to Hillary. At this point I'm even hoping that Barack puts her on the ticket in the Veep spot.

[Skwmom]

9. Well then she needs to get out of the race and STOP attacking the Dem nominee.

[MaineDem]

11. I know it's tough to see your candidate not make it but please...

Don't think that all Obama supporters look on her as a bitch and we aren't all ready to "fucking fire" back at her.

There has to be a grieving process for the supporters of the losing candidate and I think DU has that process in place.

[ps1074]

13. She better start behaving like she know it's over then

We'll soon have president Obama. She better be nice with him.

[EstimatedProphet]

14. You can't ask the impossible

Rational thought in GD: P, especially from the Apostles of Obama, simply cannot happen.

[NJmaverick]

17. As an Obama supporter, I am torn by your post

I want to be magnanimous. I want to help start to heal the rifts in the party. On the other hand, I don't like being called out by the supporters of the candidate that lost. Victory has it's perks, and the biggest is that you get to set the agenda. I am more than willing to let by gones be by gones, but I am not going to be dictated to by those that backed the horse that came in second.

[NJmaverick]

24. reply because of error

[ruggerson]

26. Sorry, but that's not the way it works

we're all democrats here and you've been one of the most divisive voices on this site. You have no more "perks" than anyone else. So sorry to break it to you.

[jbm]

32. victory doesn't happen until the general..

and Obama is never going to get there, in part, because his supporters have zero concept of how politics works.

[Asgaya Dihi]

40. That's an interesting concept

We've been hearing that from Clinton and her supporters the whole way through this thing, how Obama and his supporters don't understand the game so can't win elections. The argument seems to be missing one small point though. He's won more than her and is ahead in every respect, if the argument is that he's a poor candidate then what implication does that leave us with about her abilities or chances?

There's a difference between spinning the win and actually winning in the first place. He's not as good at spinning but the win part he's doing fine with. That in the end is how politics works.

[highplainsdem]

44. Obama has no chance of victory in the GE without most of Clinton's voters.

And Obama has to be aware of that, even if many of his supporters don't seem to be.

Getting the nomination will be pretty meaningless if he and his supporters alienate people whose support they need.

And the same would have been true if it was Clinton ahead, with Obama having as much support as Clinton has now.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

85. Most of the will vote for him.

Along with a lot of independents and Republicans. He doensn't need the bitter deadenders.

[Tyler Durden]

89. An interesting Concept....

Similar to the one the Party used to have about AA'S..? That they had no where else to go so they'd vote Democratic and could be ignored?

How's that working for you?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

93. Isn't that your candidate's attitude toward AAs?

How's it working for her?

As for the bitter deadenders, to paraphrase Senator Clinton, screw 'em. On DU just this morning there was an article interviewing Clinton supporters at a rally. The reporter interviewed two people who weren't voting for Obama because he's a Muslim. At a Clinton rally. I'm tired of catering to these nitwits.

[Tyler Durden]

100. It's not worth arguing about anymore.

You people just keep on thinking the Clinton supporters, and the GLBT Community, and the Blue Collar workers, and the Old people will just come around to your point of view coom-by-yah and all that jazz.

You don't seem to get the concept of "amends," do you? As the winners, you have amends to make; as the losers, the have nothing else to lose but their own self respect. And Team Obama seems dead set on unconditional, humiliating, crawl to the altar to worship Surrender.

This is going fail very badly, and you'll have no one left to blame. Will you?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

104. I know this one isn't worth arguing anymore but I'll try anyway.

You mentioned the LGBT community.

Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

Seems like there should be amends all around, yet only Obama is expected to make them.

I could go on about blue collar workers viz. NAFTA and Bill Clinton and Mark Penn's activities. If people don't possess the barest curiosity or inclination to do their own homework, particularly those in the constituencies you cited, they deserve President McCain.

[Tyler Durden]

109. Obama is going to WIN. That puts the onus on HIM.

The losing side feels they have nothing to apologize for, and that they have been treated very poorly (no matter what the winning side's opinion of such feelings is).

You don't want to play the game (and admit it: Obama HAS been playing the game), then we ALL get McCain.

The words "Pyrhhic Victory" come to mind.

[madmom]

126. What about this unity thing Obama talks about, obviously you don't listen to your own candidate.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

127. Unity doesn't mean coddling bitter racists and petulant crybabies.

They can either grow up or they can take their marbles and go home.

[here_is_to_hope]

107. Well, are most of Clintons supporters Democrats? If so...

The we win.
If not...well.

[Maven]

103. As in, you have political capital and now you're going to spend it?

Where have we heard that before?

[Bake]

116. But you lose in the fall without the full party

So some grace in victory is not only appropriate, it's essential.

Bake

[Tesha]

18. I agree with your analysis.

She'd be a fool to drop out before WV and KY; the money's
probably largely invested already, and she *WILL* win
those two states (though not for good reasons but rather
for bad ones).

But by then, the Superdelegate die will have been cast
and she will probably use that as her reason for dropping
out.

Tesha

[oviedodem]

19. I don't malice her, would never call her a B** because I have a mother and a wife.

[hokies4ever]

20. Why so much cursing?

Get off your high horse trying to lecture people on manners when you need to give that lecture to yourself.

[madrchsod]

22. she still can win puerto rico.......

she`ll receive 800,000 votes putting her ahead in the popular vote.....yes i read it here at du. you see she`s down and out but she will rise like the Phoenix

[Blondbostonian]

68. put down your crack pipe

and look at the poll numbers

[Shoelace]

112. even if she wins all the rest of the primaries, not enough delegates

but I think that the rest of these races must be played out to keep Democrats engaged in the process. I'm a Clinton supporter but my sense of it all is that she knows that Obama has won. It's time to unite the party, win BIG in November.

[jefferson_dem]

23. Nice post.

I appreciate your plea.

I also hope Obama's supporters (myself included) can be as classy as the candidate has been throughout.

[dancingme]

25. I am very interested to hear her TONE today

If she is still attacking Obama, I won't have any respect for her. If she sounds like a uniter, then I will agree with you. It's up to Hillary, not up to us.

[TheDoorbellRang]

27. I saaw your post on this last night and it made a lot of sense

I.e., Hillary stays in thru West Virginia and Kentucky so that Obama doesn't lose against "uncommitted." Right now I think the polls in both states have her beating him about 75-25% and I heard Pat Buchanan on MSNBC wondering what it meant if Obama couldn't win in Kentucky.:eyes:

If she stays in as an "excuse" for him in WV and KY while also refraining from her kitchen sink strategy, she will regain a bit of the respect I once had for her.

[dbmk]

48. There is actually some party loyalty logic to that.

[susankh4]

29. In the end... everyone will love Hillary and Bill.

Once they start defending Obama against the likes of Rove.

Hang in there. We need to resolve FLA and MI. We need to see votes from KY, OR, and W.Va.

Then we will all get behind the Obama/Clinton ticket and handily defeat McCain in 08.

[happyslug]

30. Give up, Obama supporters think Conventions are ratification of the Nominee

NOT the actual selection of the Nominee. People tend to forget, as late as 1968, Humphrey won the nomination AT THE CONVENTION, without running or winning in a single primary. If we look earlier in history, Theodore Roosevelt ran for a third term in 1912, WON every Republican Primary, but lost to nomination to Taft at the Convention.

Conventions were first set up to pick the nominee for the party. The Democrats were first in 1828 and selected Jackson. Primaries were a later addition, starting in the late 1800s, but NOT final as to whom the nominee would be till this day. In 1924 the Democratic Party wen 103 rounds before they picked a Candidate, other conventions went more than one ballot (But the 1924 Democratic Convention holds the record). The push since 1924 has been to go with the first ballot, if possible (Thus the Democratic Party removed the 2/3 rules in the 1930s to prevent something like 1924 occurring again).

Unlike most people I like the 2/3rds rule, i.e. a person can NOT get the nomination unless 2/3rds of the delegates vote for him (or her). Neither Hillary or Obama has anywhere near 2/3rds of the Delegates, so under the 2/3rds rule NEITHER could be viewed as the "Presumptive" nominee (In fact the 1924 Convention, the two potential nominees with the most votes in the first round were out of the picture by the time of the 103rd and final vote for the nominee).

The "Super-Delegates" were an attempt to do what the 2/3rd rule did for a Century, make sure the nominee is electable. Neither Hillary or Obama are out of the picture no matter what happens in the remaining states, thus it will go to the convention and I wish people would just accept that, as apparently both Hillary and Obama have.

[habitual]

31. thanx for this

good points.

[zulchzulu]

33. I'm going to give the Clinton campaign the benefit of a doubt they know what's happened

The problem with that assumption is that they go back into Attack Mode. We'll see how this plays out.

I'm not quite sure I know what you meant by "it looks bad for Obama in the general to have lost two states to someone who's not even running." Are you referring to Michigan and Florida... two states that Hillary Clinton signed on to the Four State Pledge back in the fall when those states decided to try to break the rules?

If so (and as an article in today's NYT states), trying to add those delegates after she signed on to the pledge as well as recorded in audio saying that "Michigan won't count", look for the Superdelegates and the Democratic Party to step in and not allow her to break the rules to "win".

You're right...it's over. Let's just make sure the Clintons know.

[Phillycat]

50. No, I'm referring to WV and KY.

[masshole]

34. Russert said this last night

And I tend to agree actually. The Clintons know it's over, and there is no way Hillary will lose either KY or WV. Instead of having Obama "lose" to someone who's no longer running, she will stay in the race until these primaries are over. Props to Hillary.

[goclark]

49. Spinner Russert was just way beyond his bedtime last night

and he didn't get the Memo...

"We are moving the bar again Timmy.Forget the Math, it doesn't count."

Just know that this Obama supporter is well aware that if the shoe was on the other foot, Obama would be back at home today, FINISHED ,and she would be declared the nominee.

All these little SPINS from Clinton folks are only to get us to think that the Math doesn't count.

[JVS]

36. She'll be speaking at noon. Then we'll see whether we can hold our fire.

She might be in for a shit storm

[Aloha Spirit]

37. janesez, I heard this theory on teevee AFTER you posted it last night. Do you work for NBC?

srsly.
This totally makes sense to me.
Russert mentioned it, and he knows everything.
HOWever, please forgive the riffraff if they're a little worked up right now.
I think we're all a little nauseous about things right now.

[blogslut]

38. FYI: Socks was given away

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socks_(cat)

EDIT ADD - Not dead

[Tom Rinaldo]

39. The important question isn't whether Hillary stops campaigning

It's how she campaigns if she continues to campaign. There is more than one reason why it could help Obama for Hillary Clinton to formally remain in this race. The one you mention is just one of them. As long as there is still an official race going on the media, which nowadays is hooked on covering politics, will provide coverage of it. That means lots of national air time for both Obama and Clinton, lots of footage of stump speeches, but even more important than that, there will be lots of local press coverage of two dynamic Democrats in the states that still have contests pending.

If the tone of both campaigns stays positive, if the focus is on Democratic solutions to the problems facing America, if the message is that Democrats understand your problems better than the G.O.P., and if the main target now is the G.O.P. and John McCain, it is a good thing for Democrats.

If Hillary Clinton is able to go into West Virginia and Kentucky and Oregon and connect well with some voters that Barack Obama has had trouble reaching, that can be a very good thing also. Because we need those voters to identify with the Democratic Party, not the Republican Party. If Hillary Clinton stresses that she has much more in common with her honorable primary opponent Barack Obama than working people have in common with the Republican agenda for America, that is good for the Democratic Party. If Hillary Clinton can establish herself as an advocate for Blue Collar Americans now, then come this summer she can be all that more effective advocating for Obama with them, assuming Obama is our nominee.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. I agree...she should stay in another 2 weeks and go out with some dignity

She'll win WV and Kentucky, Obama will win Oregon, and she'll bow out then.

That's the only reasonable course of action at this point.

[madwivoter]

42. I like to think of myself as a pretty rational person

I'll agree with you, Hillary should stay in through WV and KY, but not for the same reasons you state.

She should stay in because SHE needs to.

She needs more time to communicate with her supporters. She needs time to work out the financial issues her campaign has.
She needs closure, I know I would. I'd like to see her end her campaign on a win.

I don't think one hateful thing about Hillary Clinton. I really don't like her lately, only she can change that. I think you are assuming that a lot of people are holding this "hate" for Hillary Clinton when they really are not. There's a big difference between "hate" and feeling betrayed by her, I think you need to look a little closer before making such grand assumptions.

Is that rational enough for you?

*signs off with feet held to the fucking fire*

[kentuck]

43. How Obama can cut her lead in half in Kentucky?

Obama is a basketball fan. Basketball in Kentucky is a religion. Kentucky has won more championships than Indiana or NC. (UCLA has won more championships) KY has won more games than any other college team, although NC is closing fast. So, here is how Obama wins the hearts of many Kentuckians:

He puts on his UK basketball hat and gives a speech in Lexington and shoots around with the UK team if possible? He lets the fans know that he knows what basketball means to Kentuckians. He can say that he believes KY will win a national championship during his first term in office. :-) He can mention that KY is center of the basketball universe.

Yes, it all sounds petty and trival but it is important to Kentuckians. Let's see if Obama knows about Kentucky basketball? :-)

[Strawman]

45. OK, just curious why I should buy that theory over her campaign's expressed desire to still fight

Wolfson is in the NYT today talking about really pushing to seat MI and FL. From everything I've read it doesn't sound like they are staying in the race to help Obama. Your theory would be nice, but it seems entirely speculative.

She can do whatever she wants. I won't call her a crazed loon or anything. She sincerely believes she is the stronger general election candidate and still has a chance to persuade enough superdelegates that she gives the party the best shot to win in November. I disagree, the primary electorate disagrees, and the superdelegates won't overturn it. Her continued efforts are almost certainly futile. But there is probably no harm in letting everyone cement Obama's nomination in the remaining primaries. Based on the tenor of the press coverage, fairly or unfairly, the only thing that will be harmed by her continuing is her reputation. Obama has survived the "kitchen sink." Her fundraising is going to dry up soon and she may accept reality before June possibly shortly after June 3.

Its over, but I don't buy your theory (even though it makes common sense) that she has given up yet. I think she's too invested in trying to win this to quit.

[CindyKay]

83. Because She will Broker a Deal

She will have Obama pay Her Debt & She will stop trying to drag Obama Down , Then After June 3 ( Maybe Sooner )She will drop out.

[democrattotheend]

46. I think you're right

As long as she stops attacking him, I think he is better off if she stays in through May 20, or even through June 3. I want him to win this outright with no questions about legitimacy. I want Florida and Michigan to count so there's no ill will in the fall. I want this party united, and if she is forced out that won't happen. And I agree about Kentucky and West Virginia...her staying in provides him cover.

[Jersey Devil]

47. OK, I can see that, but we'll know shortly by what she says in WV

I expect her to continue to campaign until she gets her finances somewhat in order (if that is possible), but the proof will be in her words. If she gives a unity type speech attacking McCain it may even be beneficial for her to continue. But it is a two way street. If she attacks Obama all bets are off.

[bullwinkle428]

51. Thanks for providing a little buoy of sanity, bobbing about

in a churning sea of :crazy: ...

[stray cat]

52. Are Clintonites democrats? From the number who are voting for McCain or not voting

It looks like more of a cult of personality than a democratic voter group. I think either Hillary or Obama would make a better president than 4 more years of Bush -ie McCain. However, if Hillary and Obama constituents fail to vote for the nominee they are handing my and our future to Bush et al.

[Meshuga]

53. As long as she is not negative

I don't care if she stays until the convention. Both candidates should be focusing on McCain and not on each other anymore.

[GumboYaYa]

54. Are Hillary and her supporters going to stop slinging mud over the next two weeks?

There has been a lot of really nasty stuff run up the flagpole by the Clinton campaign. If it continues now, she deserves to be run out of the party. If it ends and she shows some grace, every one will sing Kumbaya (sp?).

[Phillycat]

56. You first.

[GumboYaYa]

57. Well then, Hillary and her supporters deserve the ire of the party.

Sometimes you have to know when it is time to get off the stage. If she continues to attack at this point, the only reason is that she puts her future ahead of the country's needs right now.

[Phillycat]

58. Oh, I thought you meant on DU.

Never mind. Yes, I think she will bring forth a unity message from this time forward.

[GumboYaYa]

60. I have a band you need to check out if you haven't heard them yet....

Ozomatli. We saw them a few weeks ago and were blown away with how much fun they are.

[Phillycat]

63. Yeah, I saw them years ago at a festival, they are great!

I haven't heard any of their new stuff though, I'll have to DL some.

[Aloha Spirit]

66. Is the ire of the party like the belle of the ball?

:blush:

[leaningprog]

55. What we have to do next

We have to continue to build the new Democratic grassroots funding
machine Mr. Obama has built. We must get to where our best candidates
do not have to go beg from Corporate and Media moguls and compromise
their ability to stand for people before special interests. This is
how we are going to make a Democratic woman the President of the United
States in the near future. She is going to be one of ours and we are
not going to make her grovel for money.

We have to let the dust settle and then take stock of how much
the other party interfered in the Democratic primary with direct
injection of hostile votes versus true crossovers. This story has
to make it to every person in the nation via the media and we
should let the people see how destructive Limbaugh was and the other
scab pickers that tore our flesh when we were selecting our candidate.

Most of all, we have to remember, we are the party that is for women,
working class people of all sorts, and for all races and religions and
ethnicities.

We have been fighting very hard and emotionally, outsiders think this
is a sign we hate each other, but they are wrong. We love each other
and this is why we got so wound up.

It is now time for those who intruded on our lover's spat to find
out they are in deep shit and are barefoot.

Any hostility I still harbor for Ickes and Lanny, and yes for the
Clintons reaching beyond my comfort zone as a Democrat to win, I
will do my best to redirect towards the Swamp Turkey Oracle,
Rush Limbaugh.

[lojasmo]

59. She should stay in through WV and KY at least.

Hell, at this point I don't care how long she stays in, as long as she remains civil and calls off her attack dogs.

[frickaline]

64. There will always be inflammatory posters and posters you don't agree with

The important thing is to just let it go, its not personal. Heck, its the internet!

[invictus]

65. Perhaps Hillary should hold her own fire. She should stop attacking the inevitable Dem nominee since

she knows that she cannot win. Unless Hillary is trying to help McCain so that she can run in 2012.

[Phillycat]

67. Has she attacked him so far today?

Because up until last night, she was still in this thing. So, starting today, has she attacked Obama? if she does, going forward, I will be surprised.

[Medusa]

69. Listened to the Clinton conference call this morning. The delusional

are still calling Michigan a "win". Desperate, delusional, out-of-touch--all words to describe the Clinton campaign at this point. She ain't smart if she can't read the tea leaves.

[Phillycat]

70. I'm at work. Can you tell me what she said?

Did she attack Obama, or was it a unity message?

[DMorgan]

81. SHE wasn't on the conference call. Her advisors were talking abou

How Obama can't win white voters, can't win big states, etc etc

[wildeyed]

71. If her hard core attacks cease,

I am willing to be patient.

[berni_mccoy]

72. You make a GOOD and INTERESTING point. I will consider this.

And for what it's worth, I've never referred to her in a profane way, especially the B-word, and admonished others for doing so (though to be honest, I've heard the b-word used more by Hillary supporters than Obama supporters).

[CindyKay]

76. I Agree ! We need to think rationally about this.

They will broker a Deal . Obama will pay off Her Debt & She will leave Him alone.
If She continues to try to drag Him down She could end Her Career & Destroy Bills Legacy .
Leave Her alone & Let Us Move On .:pals:

[breakaleg]

78. There is no good reason for her to stay in this race. It can only hurt Obama and the party.

She is being selfish and nothing more.

[backscatter712]

79. Might as well let her stay in for WV and KY.

I don't see much harm in that.

[casus belli]

80. Fair enough, and I think you're right.

I'm sure she wants to leave her campaign with no debt, and it wouldn't make much sense for her not to spend the political capital she has accumulated by negotiating appointments, etc with Obama before conceding the race. Congratulations to you and your candidate, by the way, on an exciting nail-biter of a race last night in IN. Even though it didn't turn out the way I had hoped, you gotta admit it was exciting. :)

[Occam Bandage]

86. Completely agreed.

[myrna minx]

92. I think you have a valid point.

It would be nice to see her exit with a sizable victory and leave the race with her dignity and legacy intact and leave on a high note. This way the whole party wins. I agree. Let's see how this plays out.

[NashVegas]

94. I Really Hope You're Wrong

I really hope you're a troll.

I've put up with insults, with being called a racist, and all kinds of gender attacks, and now you're telling me that the #1 reason for HC to stay in the race at this point is to provide political cover, so the candidate with wobbly parts won't look bad in these two states?

I've seen a lot of attacks on Hillary Clinton but this one is, by far, the most personally devastating.

If this is true, I'd rather see her drop out than continue to prop up these assholes one day further.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

95. You seem bitter. Crisco. nt

[Phillycat]

98. Uh, I'm not a troll, I've been here for years.

And I'm a Hillary supporter. This thing is over. It's done, kaput. If she stays in, it will be because she made a deal with someone for something. This is politics. I'm sorry you're so personally hurt by it. A politician is a politician - they do what is expedient.

[BlooInBloo]

96. Hold fire? While SHE gets to keep fighting? NOT!

:rofl:

She says the fight goes on, so the fight goes on. There's no timeout for US while SHE gets to keep going. That's just stupid.

[Phillycat]

99. Has she attacked Obama today?

If she has, I take it all back. I do not expect her to do that, and will be very surprised if she does. I am saying SHE, not her supporters, advisors, anyone else.

[Lerkfish]

106. bullshit bet. She does a lot of attacking through surrogates.

and always has.

[KoKo]

101. Well said....I voted for Obama in NC Yesterday and think every state has a right to vote in this

Primary. I can't understand the harping on Clinton by Obama supporters to drop out. Why should it matter to them. They don't realize how much they turn people off by posting such childish ravings.

[dogday]

129. If they believe in the rules of the party when it comes to Florida

and Michigan, then they must believe that until the magic number is reached, both candidates have just as much a right to campaign... You can't have it both ways... If they want her out before the rules apply, then seat Florida and Michigan....

[Lerkfish]

105. step 4: bargaining

[RainDog]

108. agreed

and condolences

[LSK]

110. I agree with you n/t

[Bread and Circus]

114. I hope you are right Jane. I really do. I can live with that.

[Shae]

118. It is a great idea janesez

For Clinton to stay in until May 20 could be a win/win.
She'll take WV on May 13, on the 20th she'll take Kentucky and Obama will take Oregon.
She'll go out on a win, and it shouldn't hurt Obama at all.

This works for me as long as she doesn't go negative against Obama in the meantime.

[Phillycat]

119. Agreed.

Both candidates must push only a unity message between now and then. If she attacks Obama at this point (as of today, going forward), I take it all back.

[HardWorkingDem]

120. Great point....but...

wouldn't HRC dropping out also signal to Obama (if he loses both to her while she is not on the ballot) just how much he might need her as a VP?


Still, a great point.

[Phillycat]

121. If she thought it would hurt the party, I don't think she'd do it.

If she thought dropping out now would hurt Obama in the general (which is sort of what I'm trying to say in the OP), I think she would stay in rather than advance her own cause by showing him how much her absence hurts him.

She's also a politician, and she will stay in if it's expedient. She has debts, she may be offered a position...and let's not forget about that little thing called the democratic process. It hurts no one to let all (or at least most) of the voters have their say, especially in a race as close as this one. Nearly half the Democrats in the country want Hillary to be president. Let's let them express that, in the hopes that casting their vote fair and square in the primary encourages them to do the same for the D candidate in the general.

[sampsonblk]

125. Had she dropped out months ago, we wouldn't be in this position.-nt

[Phillycat]

130. Why would she?

She was still viable until last night, as much as Obama supporters didn't want to believe it.

[sampsonblk]

131. Viable to whom? She wasn't going to get the most delegates.

We've known that for weeks. She has known that for weeks. When you lose, you drop out and support the other guy. That's what she should have done long ago.

[Zomby Woof]

132. You're asking a lot

I would wait and see if Obama hears what the voices are telling him, or what the light that comes down from above says, or whatever the hell point he was trying to make in that speech. Then he can direct accordingly.

But hell, I can't get past the quasi-mystical cast of his rhetoric to know if there is any rationality out there.

[Phillycat]

133. Heh.

Now, now, that's our (probable) candidate you're talking about. :D We've both been democrats for a long time - this can't be the worst person you've ever had to vote for. I don't think Obama's the worst for me - some of my local races had some pretty...colorful characters! :evilgrin:

[Zomby Woof]

134. I will most certainly vote for him

As a card-carrying member of the DNC, I damn sure will ya betcha. :thumbsup:

I have been less than enthralled with our nominees in the past. Dukakis was a decent man, a lousy candidate, and proof that we don't always nominate the charismatics - hell, it was like voting for dishwater, lol.

But! I have to get my misgivings out of my system NOW before it becomes official. :evilgrin:

[Phillycat]

135. No, you get a week after!

The "Amnesty Week". :rofl: This place cracks me up.

[Zomby Woof]

137. Oh hell no

I am pretending there is NO AMNESTY WEEK. :hide:

The general insanity of this forum kept me away for 99% of the primaries. Now it draws me in like a 100-car train wreck. But the cars are full of clowns.

The best way for me to support Obama is to go all-out on McCain. He is so stupefyingly putrid, and a wonderful target for my ire. :D

[Phillycat]

140. "But the cars are full of clowns."

Bleeding, decapitated clowns. :rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

136. "I think we can all agree is NOT STUPID." Um, no.

She's run a dumbass campaign. I haven't seen any reasonable evidence that she's not stupid.

[Phillycat]

139. Bless your heart.

[Rene]

141. I'm doing a Hillary write in in the GE

[Phillycat]

142. Oh, don't be silly.

No you won't. You'll squint and look at the "D" if you can't actually swallow looking at Obama's name. At least, you will if you're a Democrat. Politics is not for wimps.