As an Obama supporter, I don't get the anger over the Hillary speech...

[sfam]

Sounded like a fairly vanilla stump speech to me...not seeing anything phenomenal here folks.

So she doesn't concede, I'm just not picking up on the "fuck you bitch" vibe here. In fact nothing she's saying is really angering me, which is different from normal. Normally I can't stand her for very long. She seemed to hit on a "come together" vibe, and thanked lots of people.

Granted, I'm on a bit of TIVO delay, but now with her being in the "cyclone killed people" sounds pretty close to a closing speech. Does she come out and say, "Obama's an asshole and I hate him" or something soon?

So, um, she had to take credit for the state prior to 11:00? When some networks have called it? This is the big nasty thing she did?

Come on folks, echo our leader. Give the anger a break here.

[EffieBlack]

1. Hear, hear - I hope people heed you! n/t

[Berry Cool]

2. It was the part at the beginning.

It was such obvious goalpost-moving. "Well, we've broken the tie..."

[sfam]

5. My God, what did you expect her to say?

That's the OBVIOUS response for her to make. Why wouldn't she say that? Those were Obama's own words. Why does that bother you?

[BlooInBloo]

3. Neither do I. She wants to keep fighting, so we'll keep fighting.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. That's just the haters out there that are using any excuse to hate.

They were planning it regardless.

[Levgreee]

7. the thing that bothered me was the call for Florida + MI, sorta reminded me of a coup

but... i think that is all that could raise the spirits of the listeners at that point.

[sfam]

12. If Hillary is going to change her mind, it WON'T happen tonight...never does...

That's her argument. I too think its a truly tacky argument, but why did this speech bug people so much? This wasn't the first time she said it.

[seabeyond]

19. this is what is really bothering me. obama didnt make the decision, the state officials did

but the way hillary and her people have played this when we do go into general election... i cant see the dems going out to vote and beating repugs. i think this disgusts me the most out of all of this.

[sfam]

23. Agreed, but what does this have to do with the speech? She was VERY different than Lanny Davis...

Its not like she harped on it like Lanny Davis did on CNN earlier for instance. He was both flustered AND truly annoying.

[babylonsister]

8. Her speech was okay, but she hasn't won yet. AFAIK. nt

[high density]

9. It was the first line. Then it was "On to the White House"

Then it was KY and WV are amazingly important. Then it was FL and MI are amazingly important.

It was just incredibly pompous.

[sfam]

14. Well, did you expect her to say, "On to the out house!" Common! She's running for President.

As long as she's in the race, what else would she say?

[Bonobo]

10. It sounds like she is getting ready to concede or is at least open to it.

I have no problem with her speech at all.

[sfam]

20. Agree...she left herself that opening. She could have been LOTS nastier I think...

[Warren Stupidity]

11. She needs to withdraw with grace and dignity.

She actually should have done that two months ago. Now would be a good time.

[sfam]

17. Agreed. She still might...but she wouldn't do it tonight. I actually agree with Tweety...

For the first time I might add. Was a charming speech.

[Guaranteed]

13. Great, reasonable post.

Thank you.

[bigwillq]

15. It was a nice speech

She wasn't going to concede on a primary night. People need to just relax.

[uponit7771]

16. "....count every vote....."!?!?!

[sfam]

18. As opposed to...?

Again, this IS her position, silly as it is. Did you expect her not to mention it?

[Yukari Yakumo]

21. Easy.

It was pompous. It was arrogant. Unity to her is a talking point, and she came off as totally insincere about it. It showed that she's cares little for the rules.

Basically she showed all the worst aspects of herself; Pompous, arrogant, and delusional.

Oh yeah, and it felt totally manufactured. The crowd more so.

[sfam]

24. I couldn't be a more fervent Obama supporter...and I didn't see that at all...

Not at all, was a fine speech I thought. She was FAR from her usual nasty self I thought.

[rufus dog]

22. let's see if you have the same opinion next week

She won't give up, she will follow the same policy employed for the last month.

[sfam]

27. That may be true, but the speech wasn't a telling sign of it...

Hillary could go in either direction from this...

[grannylib]

25. I don't get the anger either...bewilderment, maybe... I know that's

how I feel, but the anger and vitriol really saddens me.
I do think she's either a little delusional, or she's just going through the motions at this point, but the name calling and "fuck yous" are totally uncalled for.

[Dark]

26. Thank you

nt

[Bensthename]

28. I thought is was a nice concession speech. She even said again she would work hard for Obama..

I had no problem with it..

But Obama's rocked...

[sfam]

31. exactly my sentiments. Obama rocked, Clinton vowed to continue, but gracefully

[calmblueocean]

29. I think people are responding to the contrast in tone between O's and H's speeches.

Obama's was very conciliatory, as if who won tonight didn't mean as much as coming together as a party.

Then Hillary comes up to speak and her first words are basically, "I won! The White House will be mine!"

For any normal primary, it might have been fine, but with a major loss for her in NC, and the too-close-to-call in IN, it just seemed gratingly at odds with reality and jawdroppingly self-centered when people expected unity.

But Hillary is a tough campaigner. That's just who she is. It reminds me of the story of the Scorpion and the Frog. http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html

It's just in her nature.

[sfam]

34. This is more a reality of their positions of relative strength I think...

Obama has this thing wrapped up. He SHOULD be taking that tact. Hillary has to kill the perception among her supporters that the race is over. OF COURSE she would do the "we're going to the white house" thing. Why would you imagine she do anything else after the beating she got tonight?

[Lucky 13]

30. I think the opening tone was exactly the opposite of what we expected or hoped for.

At least it was for me. To claim victory before it is won. To ignore the overwhelming delegate lead gained by Obama tonight. To deny math and facts. And to continue to bring up the MI and FL issue... she should have voiced any and all complaints before she signed the pledge in Sept 2007.

There was no graciousness. She had to choke out some line about Obama and his supporters.

And it dampens my "victory night" I guess. WE HAVE FUCKING WON and she won't let us celebrate. She's the mean old teacher that won't let you early out of class on the last day of school. She's like my little sister when we used to play monopoly. I would own most of the properties with houses and hotels, she would be down to her last dollars and we would just go round and round the board. There was NO WAY she could win, but she wouldn't concede.


Her pride has turned her delusional. Her remaining in the race is destructive. And THAT makes me angry.

[sfam]

36. As I say right above, this is more a function of their positions in the end game...

Obama has this thing wrapped up. He SHOULD be taking that tact. Hillary has to kill the perception among her supporters that the race is over. OF COURSE she would do the "we're going to the white house" thing. Why would you imagine she do anything else after the beating she got tonight?

And Obama conceded the state to her. She needed to speak before 11:00, so why not take credit for it? This seems like a fairly small slight to me, especially considering the CBS call earlier.

And she WAS gracious. Just not at the beginning. At the beginning, she was propping up her troops.

[spanone]

32. i think you should wait until the votes are counted to declare victory....it's just me

[FatDave]

33. People are angry over that?

I thought it was incredibly conciliatory. Sounded like a non-concession concession to me. She'll be bowing out soon, May 21st at the latest.

[4_Legs_Good]

35. I agree, it was a fine speech, an "I'm not going to win but want to go out on a high note" speech

It was fine.

Time for us to bring this baby back together, because the Primary is OVER.

David

[mrreowwr_kittty]

37. From the parts I heard it sounded fine. I'll have to hear the whole thing later.

Maybe people are upset because she's not dropping out tonight. Given her demeanor up to now, I wouldn't expect that to happen if she'd lost both races by double digits.

[candidatechopin]

38. It's called "The Clinton rules"

What’s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of “Clinton rules” — the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent.

-Paul Krugman (2-11-2008)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html