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How Hillary's ABYSMAL performance with the black vote cost her the nomination

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:05 PM
Original message
How Hillary's ABYSMAL performance with the black vote cost her the nomination
Edited on Mon May-05-08 01:08 PM by beachmom
Ignore all the talk of "white working class" voters. They are like the soccer Moms of yesteryear. Truth be known, George W. Bush's ace in the hole in 2004 were rural voters which made the difference in his re-election (Ohio, notwithstanding). Well, we have the Secret Rural Voters of 2008: the African American vote. Salon has the details:

Though a majority of black voters may inevitably have gone for Obama, nothing precluded the wife of the so-called first black president from keeping Obama's margins among blacks significantly narrower -- say, losing to him by 4-to-1 or even 3-to-1, rather than the devastating 9-to-1 margins by which Obama has often won African-American Democrats. "The Clinton campaign has been focused on Barack Obama's performance with white working-class voters in a few states, but they fail to mention Senator Clinton's abysmal performance with black voters all over the country," says political consultant and Obama supporter Jamal Simmons. "She has gone from leading among black voters to losing them 90 percent to 10 percent in Pennsylvania. One would expect Obama to win these voters, but 90-10 is a total collapse that Obama is not experiencing among any constituency. Simply put, Hillary Clinton has a black problem."


The article goes on to show how in a handful of states -- New York, Arkansas, Tennessee -- Hillary did very well, and received a great popular vote and net delegate count. How did she do that? She was able to cross the threshold of 20% of the African American vote. Yet in so many states, with Pennsylvania being the latest, she lost the black vote 9 to 1. It didn't have to go down that way. There were three reasons Obama routed Hillary for this demographic, one of which was her own fault:

In quick succession, three things happened in the month and a half between Thanksgiving and the New Hampshire primary. First, Oprah's unprecedented mid-December endorsement of Obama sent a clear signal to her mixed-race female-dominated audience that they should feel as comfortable having Obama on their living room television screens for the nightly newscast as they do having her there during late-afternoon coffee talk. Next, in January, white Iowans sent a safe-harbor signal to black Americans wary about the Democratic Party nominating a black candidate that it was OK to get behind Obama. Hillary Clinton had no control over either of those developments, of course. And a top Obama advisor confirmed to me that the campaign was already tracking movement by black voters toward Obama by Thanksgiving.

But Clinton did have (or should have had) control over the third factor: the behavior of her campaign and of Bill Clinton from that point forward. Yet, through a series of intended or unintended developments -- from Bill's "fairy tale" and "false premise" comments concerning Obama's stance on the Iraq war, to hints of black-brown animosities between African-American and Hispanic Democrats, to Hillary's incessant "not qualified to lead" insinuations about Obama -- the Clinton campaign signaled that if they were going to lose the black vote, they might as well turn it into an advantage with other elements in the Democratic coalition, notably white working-class voters.

Consequently, in a short span Hillary transformed from a celebrity into an object of scorn among numerous black Democrats.


There has been a lot of outrage about the Clinton campaign about their actions, but nobody has stated the obvious: not only was this new direction of the Clinton campaign completely devoid of decency or honor: it was a very, very bad strategy that has hastened her delegate deficit.

What might the situation look like now if Clinton had managed to keep Obama's 90 percent black support just to 80 percent? It's impossible to know for certain, because it depends on where specifically -- in which states and districts -- she garnered those extra black votes. But NBC News political director and delegate math expert Chuck Todd ventured a conservative, back-of-the-napkin estimate. "I'm not sure how many more delegates she would have gotten at 20 percent performance, but I'd guess roughly 25 to 30," Todd told me. "That may not seem like a lot, but it would have swung the net delegate margin by 50 to 60, or about a third of his current pledged delegate lead."

To supplement Todd's delegate estimates, I looked at something much easier to compute: the extra popular votes Clinton would have amassed in 13 primary states with significant black populations -- Alabama, Delaware, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia and Wisconsin -- had she won just 20 percent of the black voters in those states.

...

And the difference it would have made is striking: In those 13 other states, had she drawn just 20 percent of the African-American vote, Clinton would have shifted more than 270,000 votes from Obama to herself, a net swing of more than half a million votes. Which, by the way, is roughly the amount by which she trails Obama in the overall national popular vote right now.

...

All of which brings me to a final point about the concentrated power of the black vote in the 2008 Democratic primary: The black vote was to Obama what small-state white voters in the Electoral College were to George W. Bush in 2000 -- namely, a concentrated bloc of voters whose power magnified their preferred candidate's electoral support beyond their absolute numerical value. For African-Americans, this should come as a pleasant irony, given the controversies about the counting of their votes in Florida in 2000 and in Ohio four years later.


Remarkable, isn't it? The article ends saying Hillary is still trying to get the black vote in upcoming states putting out an ad featuring Maya Angelou. The problem is, the damage has been done, and few in the black community are going to be convinced by Angelou. A better politician and campaign could have done the proper balancing act of getting those white working class voters without bleeding so completely the African American vote. Hillary Clinton was not that politician and her uphill battle to the nomination is the consequence for her lack of vision or good politics.

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary's IWR vote had already made me unable to support her...
but even if she had voted NO on that issue, I would not have been in her camp from the first day her supporters began circulating racist memes.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. But I would respectfully put you in the "liberal" category. Black working class voters are not
as pure about that vote. They overwhelmingly voted for Kerry over Dean in the 2004 primaries. The point is that if merely 20% of the black vote had across the board gone to Hillary, she would have won the popular vote, and within striking distance with the pledged delegate count. I doubt her vote for the IWR was a factor in losing the votes. Rather it was the scorched earth nature of her campaign.
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. IMO
NO matter what Senator Clinton or her campaign did, the African American vote was going to go to Obama.

Not saying I think there's something wrong with it - but to pretend otherwise is completely disingenuous.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Not 90/10. If Hillary had gotten the same percentage of the black vote as
Obama got of the white female vote, she would have been the nominee. That's The Math talking. Her strategy cost her.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. John Edwards got almost Zero African American support
and no one accused him of running a racist campaign. To the contrary, he ran on economic issues and defended those who have been left behind by the Bush 'economic expansion. In SC Edwards got 2% of the total non white vote in that State primary. Relative to their respective vote totals, Hillary Clinton got something like 7 times more support from African Americans in South Carolina than John Edwards did.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Hillary got 19% of the black vote in SC. Bill's comments were made the same day,so
I doubt they affected the vote in SC. Once again, all Hillary needed to get was 20% of the AA vote. She got that vote and more in NY, TN, and Arkansas, and pretty damned close in SC. But her campaign has gotten worse and worse, and now she is down to a 90/10 performance in PA. She blew it, Tom. It didn't have to go down this way.
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I think
That kind of proves my point.

Like I said, I don't blame African Americans for voting for the first African American to ever have a real chance at the Presidency, but to say that Clinton caused it, I think, is disingenuous.

I wish they had supported Carol Mosely-Braun in the same numbers, but I was a big supporter of hers for her short run.

Her stance on the issues was why I supported her. If she had more support, her stance on the issues might have been taken up by more candidates.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The data doesn't back your assertion up. Hillary could have gotten more of the black female vote.
She could have gotten an additional 10% of the AA vote if she had balanced her campaign. She chose a scorched earth campaign, and is losing as a result. 10% would have made the difference.
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WA98070 Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Only a Black Man could defeat Hillary, unfortunately for those in the MSM...
Edited on Mon May-05-08 01:15 PM by WA98070
who supported him in the beginning, he can also beat McCain. So now they're backing Hillary, who they feel they can defeat.



Updated to fix spelling and grammar...their vs they're
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Her support of Kyle/Lieberman naming Iran's Revolutionary Guard
as a terrorist organization, which Dubya is now using to try and justify a military attack on Iran is what put me over the edge with her.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Nope. That is a "liberal" demographic issue. That is not it. It was her nastiness
that cost her the black working class vote. Especially the black female vote.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I was just commenting on what did it for me, personally. nt
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Oh, cool. That is why you are part of the Obama coalition. But your allies
in the black community may have had concerns about other things, like Hillary's dishonorable campaign against Obama.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. This ally in the black community
has issues with her IWR vote. She could have run an honorable campaign against Obama, but I still wouldn't vote for her.

Dennis Kucinich was my first choice and John Edwards, my second. I didn't consider Obama at all because I didn't believe he had a snowballs chance in hell.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Oh, definitely. I am just saying Hillary could have grabbed 10% more of the AA vote
Edited on Mon May-05-08 03:16 PM by beachmom
in spite of her IWR vote. It certainly would have been possible if she hadn't gone scorched earth. It is my view that the black vote can be divided up like the white vote between "liberal" and "working class Democrat". The working class Democratic vote is not as purist on that vote in Congress.
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graycem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. Not to mention
the anti-war people, the activists, the young voters, and just about anyone who isn't easily categorized as "white working class."
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. White female vote is a big factor for Hillary. But she hasn't been winning that 90/10.
That is what people seem to not get. There is no doubt in my mind that more African Americans would have voted for her had she skipped the scorched earth crap.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Women have NEVER voted as a bloc. They've leaned, but not as a bloc. nt
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. We have never had a viable female running for president. So your precedent is meaningless.
Even WHITE WORKING CLASS FEMALES didn't vote for Hillary 90/10.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. And they never will MARRIAGE is a much stronger ideological guide for women...
than anything else.

It's what prevents women from voting as a bloc.

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graycem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I agree..
and many more voters would have too. Because many people felt a loyalty to the Clintons, and probably none more than the A-A community. In the beginning I fully expected to be supporting her, I wasn't overly committed to anyone, but then the nasty tactics disappointed me, and it's only gotten worse.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's not Hillary's fault she isn't black.
That is the honest truth, and anybody who doesn't agree is kidding themselves.
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galaxy21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. She was always going to lose the black vote once Obama became viable but her behaviour has ensured
Edited on Mon May-05-08 01:38 PM by galaxy21
It was 90%. Rather than maybe 60-70% (which would have made a huge difference)

Even the most devoted Hillary follower has to admit she's made some serious mistakes with the AA voters.

Anytime Hillary argues 'he's not electable' everyone, inluding AA voters, know exactly what she's getting at.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. Bingo.
I suspect that her "performance" (whatever that means) with African-Americans would have been the strongest since her husband's. That may not be saying all that much, but I see no realistic way to call her popularity "abysmal."
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nothing "abysmal" about Hillary's "performance" with the black vote.....
.......rather, there is something meteoric about black voters turning out for one of their own.

Mr. Obama has pointedly acknowledged that he benefits from his race, noting last year that a new white senator from Illinois would hardly have stirred comparable interest or intrigue.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/washington/24obama.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1205900977-7qz2FINroV037CY44ibn8w




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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. You're still not getting it: 90% is unprecedented!!! It's not that Obama is winning
the AA vote overwhelmingly. It's that he has won it so close to unanimously. There are always dissenters in every demographic, who don't go along with the crowd. Hillary had no chance of winning the AA vote. But to bleed it so completely is her own damned fault for her campaign.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. You are the one who isn't getting it. Obama himself said ......
"...that he benefits from his race, noting last year that a new white senator from Illinois would hardly have stirred comparable interest or intrigue."

What is "unprecedented" is that he is a black candidate that other blacks sense that this time: "yes, we can."

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Well, sure it has helped him. But if he had gotten 80%, also an overwhelming number,
Edited on Mon May-05-08 01:54 PM by beachmom
Hillary would not have been so behind.
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. No, you're not getting it
Unprecedented only because this is the first time an African American has been viable.

They have never voted in a block in a Democratic primary before because there has never been a viable African American candidate before.

If you look at state wide races (like Governor, etc) you'll see that African Americans *DO* vote in a 90/10 block when an African American candidate runs against a white candidate.

Like I said, I don't blame them, but the idea that Senator Clinton would *ever* get more than 10-20% of the African American vote is downright laughable.

I don't vote for or against based on color. I do, however, tend to lean toward female candidates, if all other factors are equal in my eyes.

I wish African Americans had voted for carol Mosely-Braun in the numbers they're voting for Obama -- she might have had more influence on the Democratic platform. If Kerry had chosen her as his running mate, we may have seen a different outcome. And I say that as an Edwards supporter.

I'm writing in Jimmy Carter for Pres and Al Gore for VP this time around. I don't like Obama and I will never cast a vote for him.

And just like I think it's within every right of the African American population to vote for him based on his skin color, I think it's my right to not cast a vote for him because I don't like his stance toward *my* people -- GLBTQ Americans.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I disagree with some of what you said
It is true that He is getting support because he is black but receiving 90% of that vote is not jus because he is black. Hillary has won a very bad campaign. She can easily say that she didn't get the vote because of blacks supporting Obama but she would not be honest with herself. She messed up and people deserted her.
We had an african american running for Gov who didn't capture 90% of the black vote. We had a black guy running for mayor of our city he was the only black on the ballot and he lost without getting a majority of the black vote.

I didn't support Carol Mosley Braun. She had good positions but she also had to much scandal following her.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. The key is "20 %". Hillary got 19% of the South Carolina vote. You can't deny that
her nastiness has driven that vote downward. I also think it is condescending to say that the black vote is *only* based on race. I acknowledge that some of those votes are, but hardly all. That does not bear out in the exit polls. Obama is not merely black and viable. He is getting people excited with his message of hope.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. You're kidding, right?
Anyone who is surprised at Obama's virtually unanimous support among African Americans simply hasn't been paying attention for the last few decades in American history. I'm not surprised by it at all.

All it took was for Obama's campaign to start whining about racism in SC, and whoomp there it is.

Bake
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. When a Hillary surrogate suggested Obama may have been a drug dealer, her
side lost all moral ground to complain about race being infused into the campaign. And it only went downhill from there from HER SIDE. But I guess you are rationalizing your support of her by blaming Obama for her side's unbelievable nastiness and dishonorable campaign. I was only an Obama leaner when Shaheen pushed the drug dealer meme. After that, I was definitely going to vote for Obama, making sure I got registered to vote in my new home in Georgia. So, um, we haven't even discussed how her dishonorable campaign turned WHITE VOTERS away from her.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. Blacks vote as a bloc and weren't going to vote for her over Obama under any circumstances. nt
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. Love Maya Angelou but with all due respect, Hillary can kiss my white arse. n/t
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TragedyandHope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. Hillary started out with 80% of the Black vote
Edited on Mon May-05-08 02:04 PM by TragedyandHope
I can't imagine Hillary's gains with "joe lunch bucket" have made up for all the loyal, life-long Democrats she has alienated.

How Hillary Lost This Black Vote (And Maybe Many Others)



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powergirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. She threw the AA community under the bus so she could appeal to some rednecks
Edited on Mon May-05-08 02:08 PM by powergirl
The quote below says it all. She didn't stand up for the AA community. Why should they stand up for her.

"But Clinton failed to stand for African-American Democrats when the chance presented itself late last fall and into early January, even if doing so meant firing key staffers or dressing down her own husband. Doing that might have denied Barack Obama the near-universal claim to their support he now enjoys, and the black-white coalition he built from it. For Hillary Clinton, the price of that failure may turn out to be nothing less than the nomination itself."
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-06-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. And the point is driven home again today:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/6/174510/5216/288/510240

Exit poll data Hotlist
by kos
Tue May 06, 2008 at 02:49:19 PM PDT

Per CNN:

Indiana

African Americans: 14% of the vote

Obama 92
Clinton 8


North Carolina

African Americans:

Obama 91
Clinton 6

In Ohio, Clinton got 13 percent, that dropped to 10 percent in PA.


She got 19% in South Carolina. The nastier her campaign has gotten, the worse her numbers have gotten in the AA vote.
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