Homophobia: N.C. Govenor Uses Gay Slur While Endorsing Hillary.

[malik flavors]

N.C. Governor: Hillary's No "Pansy"

Citing Clinton's toughness, Mike Easley uses word seen as gay slur

APRIL 29--With Hillary Clinton standing at his side, North Carolina Governor Mike Easley today described the Democratic presidential candidate as so tough that she "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy." Easley's compliment, as it were, may offend some voters since the word "pansy" is often used in a derogative fashion to describe a male homosexual. Or at least that's what it says in the Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary on our shelf (we scanned the "pansy" entry from page 828 and posted it below). Other dictionaries (Oxford, Cambridge, and Dictionary.com) offer a similar definition for "pansy," describing it as a "disparaging" or "derogatory" term for an "effeminate or homosexual man." The word's primary definition, of course, refers to a plant of the viola family, which apparently was not what Easley had in mind when comparing Clinton to the boxer portrayed six times on screen by Sylvester Stallone. When she stepped up to the mic to accept Easley's endorsement, Clinton said nothing about his "pansy" comment.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0429081hillary1.html

I guess that's just part of courting Archie Bunker democrats, you have to show you're one of them. Shots, beers, hunting, and homophobia...

[leftofcool]

1. Uh no!

A Pansy is one of the smallest flowers and has been for a hundred years used to describe someone who was not small but larger than life.........a fighter. Get a grip!

[cali]

8. Grab a clue: Pansy has long been used as a slur against gay men

but I knew you bots would do nothing but make excuses. pathetic.

http://www.slangsearch.com/culture.html

[leftofcool]

34. So are a lot of words, that doesn't make the Governor homophobic

nor does it imply a slur against gays. He could have used the word "fairy" too and you would have gone just as ballistic

[cali]

51. Actually, I agree. It doesn't show him to homophobic, just

a bit clueless and insensitive. But I'm not ballistic, I'm just relishing the hillpocrisy.

[Bake]

70. I suppose there might be some context or explanation of his use of the term

But offhand, I can't really think of one that doesn't sound awfully strained. I've got to say, it wasn't helpful.

:hi:

Bake

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

220. Easley not good with AA community, Progrs, mental health comm., or media - was sued Apr 14

NC Gov Easley endores Hillary Clinton - and why it may hurt Clinton

He's being sued right now by major media groups for his "policy" of destroying official emails and for diverting millions of $ that were intended for mental health care. Media has not been able to investigate the mental health care crisis here in NC and other issues because of the destruction of public records. And to show Easley's maturity, we nick-named him "Crash Easley", and the details are lower down.

Here's why I'm not surprised that someone like him would do that.(He's the outgoing DINO Gov)

Destroys public records on a regular basis

North Carolina Governor Sued By Media Over Emails

April 14, 2008 Stephanie Cruz - AHN

Raleigh, NC (AHN) - Several media organizations on Monday filed a lawsuit against Gov. Mike Easley, accusing his administration of routinely violating the state's public records law by deleting official e-mails.

The complaint was filed in Wake County Superior Court by 10 media groups seeking a court order against state employees to prevent them from deleting, destroying, or concealing government e-mails.

The lawsuit is asking the Court to compel North Carolina Cabinet officials to require all personnel to abide with state public records law.
...
The law states that all e-mails sent to and from government offices are "public records if they contain information related to the transaction of public business" and should be be kept for future reference.

The suit stemmed from a former Dept. of Health and Human Services official's statement that Easley's office follows an unwritten policy to delete e-mails daily. Two other public information officers affirmed the fired worker's claim.

...The media groups who sued Gov. Easley include: The Associated Press; The News & Observer, The Charlotte Observer; the North Carolina Press Association; The Fayetteville Observer; The Wilson Daily Times; The Alamance News; Freedom Communications and Freedom Eastern North Carolina Communications; Media General Operations Inc.; and The John Locke Foundation

...more at the link

Easley withheld millions of $ from health care to plug the budget holes

Governor's Candidates Focus on Woes of Mental Health System

WRAL News Apr. 25, 2008

Raleigh, N.C. — North Carolina's mental health system has never received so much attention from the public, let alone the major-party candidates for governor.

That's largely due to the widespread failure of a reform effort initiated by the Legislature in 2001 and carried out by Gov. Mike Easley's administration, which tried to create a community-centered method for treating the mentally ill, substance abusers and the mentally disabled.

...The idea behind the 2001 reform was to shift the state's mental health programs away from institutional care to community-based treatment offered by private providers. The General Assembly set aside money to help local agencies that manage patient services to build up their treatment capacity by adding short-term hospital beds and crisis services.

The intention was to keep patients from ending up in jails or emergency rooms following a breakdown.

Instead, the state's institutions are used more than ever. Replacing government-run psychiatric services at the county level led to no care in some rural areas because private or nonprofit providers either couldn't survive financially or simply left the area.
Easley also intercepted tens of millions of dollars earmarked for mental health to plug a budget shortfall.

...more at the link

Here's why we in NC unaffectionately call him "Crash Easley"

Easley Won't Be Thrown Off Track

Dan Kane & Rupen Fofaria, News & Observer May 10th, 2003

Gov. Mike Easley walked away from a high-speed crash Friday at Lowe's Motor

Speedway, got into a second race car and raced some more at speeds up to 160 mph.

No big deal, said NASCAR driver Kenny Wallace. "I don't think it's dangerous," he said.

But Rep. Mickey Michaux, after hearing of the wreck, said a governor should be more careful.

"I think if I was governor, I'd be a little more circumspect," said Michaux, a Durham Democrat.
"I don't think I'd be in a race car. But hey, you take a chance crossing the street."



...more at the link

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

225. Tks. Blue NC'ers are blogging and commenting about it HERE:

Thanks for posting this op. You amaze me, you are doing a better job of tracking NC stuff than I am.

Check out the blog and those of you who don't live in NC, you will get a better feeling
of what NC folks think about Crash Easley:

Easley uses gay slur to praise Clinton by Kosh

Yesterday Mike Easley endorsed Hillary Clinton. No surprise there, since like her, he is a "right of center" Democrat. What did stand out was in the course of his endorsement he decides to praise her while using a gay slur.

...nothing I love more than a strong powerful woman." Easley concluded his remarks saying Clinton -- "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy".

link http://bluenc.com/easley-uses-gay-slur-to-praise-clinton

Be sure to read the comments!!!!

[LVjinx]

297. Pansy means wimp... As a gay man, I've been called a faggot but never a "pansy"

I think we all know the context in which the term was used here.

[kenny blankenship]

285. just not afraid or ashamed to deploy homophobic language.

[RaleighNCDUer]

108. With good reason, because 'fairy' is ALSO a gay slur.

He COULD have said "wimp", or "jellyfish", or any number of other things. But he DIDN'T.

[yardwork]

190. Is it relevant that an openly gay man is running for senator from NC?

I have a sneaking suspicion that it is relevant. For the first time in its history, NC has an openly gay man running for a statewide office. He's running for the Democratic nomination to run against Dole in the fall.

Easley is supporting the gay candidate's opponent - a right-leaning Democratic woman - in the primary. Easley just endorsed the right-leaning Democratic female candidate for president.

Now do some people see some potential relevance?

[kenny blankenship]

212. Definitely relevant. Good yardwork there.

That pretty much ends the mystery of "what he meant".

[yardwork]

226. Thanks. I thought I'd mention it.

[Divine Discontent]

241. GOOD JOB YARDWORK! it does make it obvious that he's getting two digs in, one at the candidate who

is openly gay, and another at saying Hillary's no pansy (like maybe Barack is with his 'uppityness') I find his comment DETESTABLE!



Hillary can have all the endorsements from bigoted and slimy politicians!

[yardwork]

245. After thinking about it today, that's what I decided. He used it deliberately.

I don't hold it against Hillary, though. I doubt she knew what he was up to. Easley is slimy that way.

[hisownpetard]

283. Totally relevant. Good point!

:hi:

[PoliticalAmazon]

304. Ist it relevant that Hillary has long-standing stories about her being lesbian? n/t

[hisownpetard]

279. Uh... well, yeah! Or he could have used 'faggot' and claimed he was talking about a bunch of

twigs and sticks.

Right.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

41. Pansy has been used as a slur against weak

small straight men too... It gets allot of use..

[aquarius dawning]

107. It's a slur against cowards who are afraid to fight actually.

[americanstranger]

115. Must be a regional thing.

Where I grew up in Philly, it was an anti-gay slur. If someone called you a pansy, there was no mistaking what they meant.

- as

[aquarius dawning]

121. Check out my post #106.

[yardwork]

194. Believe me, the term has the same meaning in North Carolina.

As with the McClurkin incident, the thing that's making me angriest is the effort to pretend that it's not a slur against gay people. Just admit it! I have no idea why Easley said it - he's a jerk anyway. I don't hold it against Hillary. She didn't say it. I doubt she asked Easley to say it.

But come on - let's stop pretending that we don't know what it means! Sheesh.

[PoliticalAmazon]

128. I don't see it as necessarily a gay slur, but considering Hillary's bigot-pandering...

...there is the real possibilty that she was giving a wink-wink to bigots in the state.

What would be really intersting is that she herself has had many allegations of being lesbian. I wonder how those same bigot would feel about having a lesbian in the Oval Office?

[flpoljunkie]

256. Here's a video link of the sorry episode from Americablog...

http://www.americablog.com/2008/04/videohillary-laughs-while-nc-governor.html

[hisownpetard]

276. cali, that's the only way I've ever heard it used, if not referring to the flower.

No two ways about it.

[malik flavors]

10. A pansy is a weak person, and is often used as a slur against homosexual males.

[mckeown1128]

17. Nice attempt to pretend you don't know the conotation of "pansy"...

who are you trying to fool.

[leftofcool]

36. Oh for fucks sake!

How about the word, twinky, or fairy. Try another outrage!

[mckeown1128]

42. So there is a offensive line to cross before we should have a

problem with homophobia...


I don't personally see this as a big deal. But, it is done so much to Obama that it is nice to sling the same sh*t at Hillary every now and then ;)

[Maine-ah]

82. my dad called me twinky as a term of endearment.

[Terran]

101. despite your fake outrage

"pansy" remains a slur against gay men (among other things). It means what it means, and the context could not be more obvious here. So stop making yourself look like either the biggest hypocrite in the universe or a complete idiot.

[0007]

119. An idiot living under a rock hardly ever knows the meaning of words

and there usage. We all know what a pansy is but what the fuck is a twinky

Pansy = pan·sy (p²n“z¶) n., pl. pan·sies. 1. Any of various plants of the genera Achimenes or Viola, especially V. tricolor or its hybrids, having flowers with velvety petals of various colors. 2. Color. A deep to strong violet. 3. Offensive. Slang. a. Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate. b. Used as a disparaging term for a gay or homosexual man.
————————————————————

[Terran]

131. lol, well, a "twink"

is a young non-butch gay man (or boy, even). I never heard of a twinky (except the Hostess type).

[RaleighNCDUer]

110. You think those are NOT homophobic slurs? nt

[Zhade]

282. You don't think fairy is a slur either?

WTF?

[americanstranger]

24. Wow. Don't get out much, do you?

Gay band makes a play on words: http://www.pansydivision.com/

Merriam-Webster's definition (see #2): http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pansy (I'm sure they're mistaken, too, right?)

- as

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

46. No they are spot on, but youre not helping yourself..

2 (a)usually disparaging : a weak or effeminate man or boy (b)usually disparaging : a male homosexual

It can be used for someone of any sexuality

[americanstranger]

59. It's an old-school slur.

I can remember old guys in my neighborhood in Philly using it to describe gays when I was a kid.

Using it to describe physical weakness is a possibility - but why take the chance and leave it up to (mis)interpretation?

- as

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

60. And I remember kids in my neighborhood in Buffalo

using it to describe kids who were runts and I think the juxtaposition of Rocky vs. Pansy kind of makes it obvious exactly *how* it was being used. Honestly I and *many* others have noter thought of it as a slam against gays because we have not seen it used as you have.

[RaleighNCDUer]

113. Even when used to denote a weak, straight male the implication

is that it equates that weakness to being gay.

[CBGLuthier]

79. irregardless?

So long as you are checking dictionaries, look up irregardless.

[Window]

45. Are you serious????

[Zhade]

274. You're absolutely fucking WRONG. It IS a slur to us.

NT!

[Bread and Circus]

2. If he had said twinky he would get 5,000 views and 500 insulting remarks on DU...

[cali]

3. Charming. Watch the parade of hillbots come to defend this

the very same ones that call Obama a homophobe. They'll screech McClurkin, but they won't have any problem with this.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

49. Im no Hillbot

Cant stand her but there is nothing here to defend...

[RaleighNCDUer]

116. Let me clue you in.

If you have used the word "pansy" to another male, the person you were referring to thought you were calling him gay.

No matter what you thought you were saying.

I guarantee it.

[LVjinx]

298. Pansy = wimp. The fact you think it refers to gays says more about you than anyone else.

[Jamastiene]

4. Give it a break.

Governor Easley is no homophobe. He meant that she was not a little delicate flower. She is a fighter who can handle the rigors of campaigning against the Republicans.

You might want to try barking up another tree.

[eridani]

25. She is only fighting against Democrats. She does nothing but agree with Rethugs

She uses their "elitist" framing (which will be turned straight around at her by Rethugs, and she claims that her "esperience" makes her better than Obama. Whenever she does that, she also says that McSame is better than she is.

[nichomachus]

32. Then, why didn't he say she was no pussy? That just means kitty-cat.

[yardwork]

40. I've never seen any evidence that Easley is not a homophobe.

I can't think of anything Easley has ever done to defend gay rights in North Carolina, and I've been living here a looooong time.

The use of the term "pansy" is generally considered to be a slur on gay men.

[Seabiscuit]

63. BINGO!

[StevieM]

164. Another day, another made up scandal (eom)

[joneschick]

238. that would be a "shrinking vioet"

and that would have been a much better choice of words when referring to a woman. It's not what he chose to say. What he said was a homophobic slur.

[Jamastiene]

252. How can it be homophobic when Hillary is NOT a gay man?

I can just reply to the whole lot of you at once with a simple question.

[bbernardini]

5. Wow, seriously? I would never have thought of that as a homophobic slur.

Honestly, the thought never would have crossed my mind. Guess I'm a bad Democrat. ;)

[nichomachus]

61. You're not a bad Democrat

you just don't realize that gay people are the last group who can be slurred in public by politicians without recrimination.

[RaleighNCDUer]

122. The thought would cross others' minds.

I promise you, if you've called a guy a pansy, what he heard was "gay".

[hisownpetard]

284. Maybe it's a generational thing, but it is definitely used as a homophobic slur.

[barack the house]

6. To be fair not sure this is somethig we should berunning wiht Gov.'s have influence. He clearly...

didn't mean it that way. if it is solid then yeah let's go with it, but not this time. We should be charming the govenor, than putting him at odds with us let's email him to make our case. He won't change but he will at least think about our view. SO let's be nice folks.

[RaleighNCDUer]

124. Actually, he has no influence. He's finishing his last term and

BOTH the democratic candidates trying to replace him have already endorsed Obama.

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. Can you imagine the outrage if he was endorsing Obama, and had

used that term? What a fucking bunch of hypocrites. Obama was attacked relentlessly because he called on old woman "sweetie". Clinton people make me sick.

[KittyWampus]

11. I am sure BlueBe*r will be one this any second. LOL

[olkaz]

15. Exactly.

The fine toothed comb looking for sexism and homophobia apparently doesn't go through the locks of the true believers.

Can't have it both ways.

[barack the house]

16. I can understand that but the table is rigged we have play it smarter and sweeter.

[KittyWampus]

9. wtf? That is tone deaf. The word wimp would have worked just as well.

[EmilyAnne]

12. So, he's implying that Obama is a pansy?

[livetohike]

13. Who needs that kind of endorsement??

Isn't he a two term governor who cannot run again? He has nothing to lose by backing a loser.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Pansies...under the bus with ya

[KittyWampus]

18. Hillary fans prefer Mums?

[BeyondGeography]

19. Mums and NASCAR Dads

No pansies for that hairy-chested crowd.

[KittyWampus]

33. Soccer Mums :-)

[blm]

20. Hey Easley - where was that fight from Clintons when Bush NEEDED opposing the last 7 yrs?

Too afraid to confront Bush and take on Rove at their most powerful?

[Cha]

215. I wouldn't call hilary a "pansy"...

she's more like a poser.

[blm]

219. Exactly - Clintons POSE as fighters while they roll over for BushInc and undermine Dem party

.

[Cha]

224. Poseys Are

more descriptive.

[Progressive_In_NC]

21. wow even somebody at the smoking gun wants to have Obama's love child

This is a stretch to say the very least.

[nichomachus]

22. Imagine if someone endorsed Obama by saying

he was no pussy. I wonder if the Hillary crowd would be out claiming there was nothing wrong with that because he was just talking about kitty cats.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

134. Well, Socially Speaking Pussy Is Generally Far More Inappropriate To Say.

Can't really compare the two.

For example, if you're in a meeting at work and you compare the reaction you'd get if you said pansy and pussy, the latter would register as a gasp far more readily.

[spooky3]

228. you're right - is there any way you can convince Jon Stewart of this?

I cringe whenever he (frequently) uses this term.

[me b zola]

23. I thought his endorsement was alarming

He talked about "dominating" the world. :wtf: Scary stuff that sounds like the shit that we have been living through for the last 7 1/2 years. Hell, Hillary's ideology of obliteration is even scaring bush*s buddies in the ME.

[Texas Hill Country]

26. parse much... damn!

[americanstranger]

31. Heh. Double Standard Alert...

It amazes me how people's sensibilities are offended by one candidate's (or their supporters') words or actions, yet the other candidate is let slide.

Yesterday's Roseanne Barr quote on AAR about 'Hos not Bros' is another example.


- as

[yellowcanine]

27. Oops. Bad choice of words. Why didn't Hillary dissavow his remark?

Surely she knows "pansy" is an insulting term for a gay man? Not only that but the comparison of Rocky Balboa plays into the stereotype that "macho" men can't be gay which is of course crap.

[zulchzulu]

28. The question really is why he thinks she "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy"

Is it because she is willing to vote for wars so easily?

Is it because she is willing to vote for China free trade bills so easily?

Is it because she is willing to lie about her record so easily?

What is she so "tough" on?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

29. Clinton's lost the gay vote

Elton will shift

[izzybeans]

30. If this were an Obama supporter we would never here the end of it.

Double standards run deep.

[Chulanowa]

35. Woah, hold up

People, critical thinking time.

Is Mike Easley really telling us, "Hillary is not a (insulting term for gay men)"? I, honestly, would figure that just by looking at her, and moreover the daughter she gave birth to, to figure out that she is not any sort of man, gay, insulted, or otherwise.

You have to take quite a stretch to read homophobia here.

[KittyWampus]

37. he used a homophobic slur in his phrasing.

[JimGinPA]

38. I Challenge You To Walk Into A Biker Bar And Call Someone A Pansy & See How That Works Out For You

[yardwork]

44. LOL!

I'm looking forward to the report.

[Chulanowa]

216. If I were to start a fight in a biker bar, I can think of many more fulfilling ways to do so.

Such as bringing in someone's smashed headlight and going "Hey, this belong to anyone? I found it stuck to my hammer!"

[redqueen]

48. At the very least it is disgustingly ugly and therefore: gutter politics.

Do you not agree?

[Chulanowa]

208. Sure, we can agree there

Also, comparing your candidate to an imaginary boxer seems kind of dumb in its own right. Especially given that Rocky kept getting his ass handed to him in every movie until deus ex machina kicked in.

[redqueen]

210. Didn't she compare *herself* to Rocky initially?

It is lame, though, yes. Very.

[Chulanowa]

214. Isn't "Eye of the Tiger" her campaign theme, too?

Will Sylvester Stallone be playing her in the made-for-TV movie?
Will she fake a slurred Brooklyn accent on her next campaign stop?
Did she weave and duck on that Bosnian tarmac? It's all in the footwork, you know!

[americanstranger]

50. No, you're reading it wrong.

He's saying she's so tough, she makes Rocky Balboa look like a gay man.

The bottom line is that he used a disparaging term for gays in his endorsement.

You'd think that would be unacceptable to Clinton supporters, given the repeated references to Donnie McClurkin on this board.

I guess there are different levels of outrage that are used at her supporters' discretion.

- as

[BeyondGeography]

58. It's a dog whistle term for any politician

Or maybe he was just carried away by the moment (like a pansy).

[Chulanowa]

213. And how do gay men look, exactly?

And, speaking as an Obama supporter here... there is a world of difference between the two situations here.

All this does it make us look like those knuckleheads did with "fingergate"

[anigbrowl]

200. Please don't be so disingenuous

As other posters have said, try using the word in a derogatory way and see what sort of reaction you get. He could have said 'she's no wimp' or 'she's no shrinking violet' and made his point equally well. 'Pansy' has been extensively used to describe men who are, you know, a little bit lavender.

What? What? Lavender is just a flower! all I meant was...you get the picture.

[Chulanowa]

205. Yes, he could have.

My point is that it's a word with a lot of uses, and he clearly had no intent of using it as an insult to gay men. If he were to say "she's not an idiot" would you be as up in arms, since "idiot" is a derogatory term for people with mental illness or disadvantages?

No argument from me that he could have used better terms. Just that there's pretty obviously no insult meant.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

39. Just because a word is used sometimes against one group

does not mean that word exclusively and *only* has that meaning..

The Dictionary Defines Pansy to mean:

Wimpy; spineless; feeble.

--

It has nothing to do with sexuality..

[KittyWampus]

47. I could offer the definition of the word "bitter" but it's all about context and what mediawhores

and bloggers decide to pounce on.

[yellowcanine]

69. Yes and a faggot is a bundle of sticks. But so what? It is still a gay slur when used in the right

context. Comparing a macho man symbol to a term which can be an insulting term for a gay man does not get a pass because pansy can also mean feeble. "Gay" also means happy but no one thinks "happy man" when someone says "gay man". Don't go obtuse on us here. Of course using "pansy" that way has to do with sexuality, whether the user is consciously aware of it or not. Just like some people will say "Gypped" or "Jewed" without being consious of the fact that these are derogotory references to Gypsies and Jews, people will use homophobic terms without being conscious of the fact. A politician should know better and not use such terms.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

76. Sorry your sore spot does not define the english language..

Pansy in terms of slang *primarily* means feeble, not *also* means feeble. And comparing a strong boxer to a feeble person is a completely appropriate context devoid of sexuality. Is it the optimal choice? seems not but it is pretty clear it had nothing to do with sexuality.

Gay is primarily used today to mean Homosexual both within and outside of the 'Gay' Community (GLBTA for example). The word (which was from a foreign language) lost its meaning in our society a long time ago..

[yellowcanine]

83. And "pansy" has not become closely tied to meaning "effeminate gay man?"

Spin spin....

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

93. By whom

Seriously?

[yellowcanine]

96. Don't be coy. You know it at some level.

[RaleighNCDUer]

137. By the entire English-speaking world.

As mentioned above, you go into a biker bar and call somebody a pansy he is NOT going to challenge you to arm wrestle to prove how strong he is - he's going to break your arm for calling him gay. He won't hear you say "weak"; he will hear "queer".

Try it.

Please.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

188. So the english speaking world

disagrees with the English dictionary.....

Interesting..

[yardwork]

77. I think that Easley knew exactly what he was saying. I agree with the "dog whistle" analysis.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

103. I agree with you completely

maybe some people are offended, but I do not think it was meant to be insulting or derogatory.

[reflection]

232. Agreed. Pansy just implies fragile and weak.

I think you have to be seeking a homophobic reference to find one here.

[redqueen]

43. Something is horribly wrong with her campaign.

I hope she condemns his use of that slur.

[Armstead]

52. I'm not PC about such things -- But "pansy" is a direct slap at gay men

Wimp okay.

Pansy is not the same thing.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

136. To Most People It Is.

Up until the moment I read this thread, all pansy ever met to me was wimp. Never knew about any gay connotations being heavily associated with it. He's guilty of the same ignorance. Nothing more to this story than that.

[BigDDem]

53. "Pansy-gate" Go for it!

:rofl:

[JKaiser]

54. that's a bunch of crap.. Mike Easley is not a homophobe

I am tired of dems attacking other dems.. *sigh..

[JKaiser]

56. pansy is a flower... I planted a couple this spring

[yellowcanine]

73. Beside the point. He did use a homophobic term. See my discussion in reply # 69.

I grew up saying "Eeeny Meany Miney Mo, catch a n***** by the toe and had no idea I was using insulting racist language. That (in itself at least) did not make me a racist, but I did use racist language. My excuse is that I was a child and was taught that way by my equally clueless brothers. What is Mike Easley's excuse for not knowing better? And what is Clinton's excuse for not correcting him then and there?

[RaleighNCDUer]

He doesn't need to be a homophobe to use a homophobic term

any more than Bill has to be a racist to make slighting racial comments.

It's just the way some people play politics.

[Yossariant]

55. Uh --- Merriam-Webster defines a pansy as a weak man:

2 a. usually disparaging : a weak or effeminate man or boy
b. usually disparaging : a male homosexual

I'd prefer that Easley had not said it, but no big deal, really.

[Seabiscuit]

67. Merriam-Webster first defines a pansy as a flower:

1: a garden plant (Viola wittrockiana) derived chiefly from the hybridization of the European Johnny-jump-up (Viola tricolor) with other wild violets; also : its flower

It also notes that it derives from middle english and middle french - from words meaning "to think" - or thoughtful, pensive. "Penser" or "pensee" being the french basis for pansy.

A pansy is therefore a delicate flower - I don't think it was meant by the Gov. in any derogatory sense, but rather as a compliment - that Hillary is tough rather than delicate. Since it was meant as a compliment, it's inappropriate to selectively choose only Webster's derogatory second meaning of the word and then cry, as the OP did: "homophobia". Had the Gov. described an openly gay man as a "pansy" that would be another story entirely.

[yellowcanine]

80. Wow you got to be dizzy after that amount of spinning.

He juxtaposed a macho man and a pansy, one meaning of which is derogotory for a gay man.
If he had called someone a "faggot", meaning a strong person, since the first meaning of faggot is a bundle of sticks, would it have been ok?

[Independent-Voter]

57. No surprise here - Easley is a pure asshole. One of those many fucks from Eastern NC that

control the democratic party down here. Needless to say, those idiots have royally screwed up things for you guys.

[nichomachus]

62. It's called a "dog whistle" folks

The intended audience can hear the message, but the speaker can claim that there was nothing wrong with what he said. Rove has been using it for years -- every time Bush speaks, he's dog whistling to his base.

Dog-whistle politics, also known as the use of code words, is a type of political campaigning or speechmaking employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has a different or more specific meaning for a targeted subgroup of the audience.

Dog-whistle politics is a separate strategy from the less nuanced approach of wedge politics often employed in the United States. Still, several examples of "dog whistle politics" are thought to exist in American politics.

One group of American code words is claimed to appeal to racism of the intended audience. The phrase "states' rights", although literally referring to powers of individual state governments in the United States, has been described as a code word for institutionalized segregation and racism.<7> Other terms that are used to indicate veiled racism are "crime in the streets" and "welfare queens". <8>

President George W. Bush is said to use coded language in his speeches to send messages to his supporters among the religious right that will be ignored by other parts of the U.S. population. Examples include his frequent use of biblical phrases and the veiled mention of the Dred Scott Supreme Court decision in the 2004 Presidential debates. The latter refers to overturning Roe v. Wade, which is likened to the Dred Scott case by some of its critics.



It seems the Hillary camp has borrowed the whistle. Easley is appealing to the mouth-breathers and knuckle-draggers in NC.

[yardwork]

64. I agree. It fits with Easley's entire career.

Easley is a DINO.

[olkaz]

65. Exactly. Good on you.

Never heard that metaphor before. Well put.

[yellowcanine]

87. Spot on analysis. But in this case the "dog whistle" failed and we heard it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

142. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Yes, yes!!!! That's it!!!! It was some super secret code word hatched in a dark room brilliant conspiracy session!!!! You got it!!! Woooohoooooo!!!!! That's the ticket!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[invictus]

66. That endorsement was a really stupid move. He will feel very foolish about it in November ...

when President-Elect Obama triumphs over McCain.

[yardwork]

78. Easley's political life in North Carolina is finished either way.

He's ending his second term as governor in disgrace. Everybody is sick of him and his weasely ways. His only chance is to negotiate a deal with the winner of the White House to get some kind of appointment. Looks like the Hillary camp promised him something. It's all he's got. Otherwise, he's back to private practice as a lawyer in eastern NC.

[rodeodance]

68. Dowd referred to BHO as effeminate and fans had a cow -thought it was Homophobic also. Get a grip

[tishaLA]

71. Very unfortunate choice of words

She should probably issue a statement denouncing it, quickly, and move on.

[backscatter712]

72. Looks like Hillary has her own McClurkin!!! n/t

As Dr. Zoidberg would say, "Looks like the rubber band is on the other claw!"

[indimuse]

74. Here we go...

next.

[Maribelle]

75. Easley used the word as a noun not as an adjective

[nichomachus]

85. Yeah -- that's the point -- as a noun, it's offensive to gay people

[Maribelle]

94. That's not what the dictionary says

[Debi]

109. the dictionary says 'this word is not offensive to gay people'?

:rofl: sure it does.

[Maribelle]

126. That's not what I said.

try following the sub-thread

[Debi]

135. Gee, I'll try...

Maribelle (1000+ posts) Response to Original message
75. Easley used the word as a noun not as an adjective
++++
nichomachus (1000+ posts) Response to Reply #75
85. Yeah -- that's the point -- as a noun, it's offensive to gay people....
++++
Maribelle Response to Reply #85
94. That's not what the dictionary says
++++

Now...show me where the dictionary says that it isn't offensive to gay people?

[Maribelle]

138. A noun vs. an adjective

Sheesh, this appears to be 35,000 feet over your head

[Debi]

145. I think the spinning is just making me a little queasy.

If your very extra special dictionary doesn't have the definition of queasy let me know.

On edit:

For those who use computers - Merriam Webster Online Dictionary -

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pansy


Main Entry: 1pan·sy
Pronunciation: \ˈpan-zē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural pansies
Etymology: Middle English pancy, pensee, from Middle French pensée, from pensée thought, from feminine of pensé, past participle of penser to think, from Latin pensare to ponder — more at pensive
Date: 15th century
1: a garden plant (Viola wittrockiana) derived chiefly from the hybridization of the European Johnny-jump-up (Viola tricolor) with other wild violets; also : its flower
2 ausually disparaging : a weak or effeminate man or boy busually disparaging : a male homosexual

[Maribelle]

148. You try distort what I said, then proven wrong ....

then you whine you're getting queasy from the spinning?



:rofl: that is truly rich

[Debi]

154. I'm still waitng for you to show me the dictionary that says the term is not offensive to gay people

Maybe the one you have on your desk says it???

[Maribelle]

157. There you go again distorting what I said.

[Debi]

161. First you said the Gov. of NC was using it as a noun - and as a noun the term is listed as

a weak or effeminate man or boy or a male homosexual

Then you argued that the dictionary doesn't say that.

So I am STILL waiting for you to show me where the dictionary DOESN'T say that the term isn't used as an offense to homosexuals.

You certainly can't be implying that it's used as a compliment??

[Maribelle]

166. ' not as an adjective '

You seem to be skipping right over the 'not as an adjective' part.

Poor you, I know this is truly difficult for you this: 'not as an adjective'.

But 'not as an adjective' had a very spicific meaning that seems to be 35,000 feet over your head.

And 'not as an adjective' should truly not be so difficult for a person such as yourself.

What seems to be your problem?

AMEN

[donheld]

171. NOBODY is skipping over your stupid spin

Noun/Adjective whatever it's offensive and I believe you and the governor both know that. No wonder I've had you on Ignore so long. Your so dizzy it's not funny. stop your spinning and get a level head!

[Maribelle]

172. What is this a drafting technique?

Nose to tail?

[Maribelle]

175. PS - you might need to be a nascar fan to know what i mean by drafting

it's not in the dictionary

[Debi]

179. You are correct, not as an adjective

as a noun the term pansy is defined as a weak or effeminate man or boy or a male homosexual.

And that is how you said Gov. Easley used the term.

[Laughing Mirror]

117. The dictionary says pansy, the noun & adjective, is "usually disparaging"

You're saying the dictionary doesn't say that. Maybe yours doesn't. Merriam-Webster does.

[Maribelle]

133. Actually ....

Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary

- - Only has the definition as:
(1) A garden flower 2. A deep to strong violet

[Laughing Mirror]

Nobody uses that obscure dictionary

Merriam-Webster is the dictionary of reference. Oxford English Dictionary ain't bad either.

Nice try though, Maribelle.

[Maribelle]

146. Amazon ...

http://www.amazon.com/Websters-New-Riverside-Desk-Dictionary/dp/0395744504

[Laughing Mirror]

150. Why do you want me to wait for the mail order of a useless weighty desk dictionary ...

when I can have the definition of the word pansy from the experts, online in an instant, and for free?

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/pansy?view=uk

pansy

• noun 1 a plant of the viola family, with flowers in rich colours. 2 informal, derogatory an effeminate or homosexual man.

— ORIGIN French pensée ‘thought, pansy’.

[Maribelle]

153. And you're free to pick which ever definition you want.

That's your choice.

[Laughing Mirror]

160. The thing is: All the dictionaries have the 2nd version of pansy, except yours, apparently

How strange.

[Maribelle]

169. As I said - - that's your choice to accept any version you want.

[Laughing Mirror]

191. Or to accept no version

Which seems to be your choice!

[Maribelle]

203. Or to falsly accuse someone else of accepting your version as dictum ...

ignorantly ignoring the truth that there are other versions the speaker could have meant.

It's called bully techniques.

Is that's all you have left to give support for your candidate?

[Laughing Mirror]

240. Give us some examples of those other versions the speaker could have meant

"Ignorantly ignoring" is brilliant, by the way.

[Debi]

143. And Webster's Medical Dictionary doesn't have the word listed at all!

So it CAN'T be a slur, it doesn't exist x(

[Maribelle]

151. You truly are trying to insult me, aren't you.

Give it up.

[Debi]

159. Not at all - I happen to have the Medical Dictionary right here so I thought to look up the word

unfortunately it isn't in the Medical Dictionary - and a word that's not in there could in NO WAY be offensive to homosexuals.

After all, the dictionary YOU have doesn't have pansy listed as a weak or effeminate man or boy or a male homosexual so the term being offensive to homosexuals must not be so.

[Maribelle]

167. My dictonary also does not contain ...

blogcult Hillary-hater. And I'll bet your medical one does not as well.


Get it yet?

[Debi]

170. What is the etymology of the term blogcult Hillary-hater and when did the term originate?

because the word 'pansy' has been around since the 15th century.

And it's etymology? Middle English pancy, pensee, from Middle French pensée, from pensée thought, from feminine of pensé, past participle of penser to think, from Latin pensare to ponder.

You're really starting to sound desperate now.

Do you want me to give you the definition of desperate? Or is it in your dictionary?

[Marnieworld]

81. OMG!

Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!Denounce and Reject!

[joeybee12]

84. Stupid choice of words, not homophobic...should have said wimp...

...although even that would have been considered homophobic by non-gay Hilary-haters.

[nichomachus]

88. Or he could have said pussy

that would have been offensive to no one.

[olkaz]

89. check and mate.

I salute you.

[joeybee12]

105. My cat would have been pissed, though, n/t

[Jamastiene]

255. There is no way in Hell he could have said pussy on television

especially in the state of North Carolina. He would have been shamed and disowned so fast, his head would still be spinning. He'd have to fucking resign if he used that word. God, what's wrong with you people. You are looking for needles in a haystack and crying every time a piece of hay touches your skin.

[yardwork]

90. How would you know? Are you gay?

[IndianaJones]

98. oh, so now gay people get to decide what is offensive to gay people? nt.

[yardwork]

177. Will our demands never end???

ROTFL!

[joeybee12]

176. Yup...not offended...growing up I was called queer, homo, fag, girl...

...never pansy...I think this is forced and disingenous outrage.

[yardwork]

178. Are you gay or not?

You're as bad as your candidate about not answering a simple question.

[invictus]

123. Hillary is a wimp. That's why she must compensate by threating to "obliterate" nations. n/t

[tabasco]

86. Kerry = metrosexual. Obama = pansy.

Hillary's swift boat tactics reveal what a rotten cretin she has become.

Hill and Bill have been corrupted by their greed for wealth and power.

[jefferson_dem]

100. Hillary =

[tabasco]

168. Hillary = swift boating scum.

I call 'em like I see 'em.

[jefferson_dem]

174. I like your style, tabasco!

:thumbsup:

[graycem]

91. Oh brother..

I think that we may be going over the line a little, but then, I'm not a gay male. But, of course some will defend this, probably the same people who flamed another poster for using "pink tutu democrats" and she had to apologize. I guess offense is selective, depending on which candidate you support. Silly, silly. I think it would be wise for everybody to let things like this go on both sides. It makes us look petty. :(

[MadBadger]

92. Give me a break.

[npincus]

95. why didn't he say "fruit"?

[jefferson_dem]

97. Aravosis is on the case, and he's not impressed.

Hillary's top NC surrogate bashes gays in front of her this morning, she does nothing
by John Aravosis (DC) · 4/29/2008 11:49:00 AM ET · Link
Discuss this post here: 17 Comments · reddit · FARK ·· Digg It!

Pansy? Standing next to Clinton, her top surrogate in North Carolina actually used the word "pansy" this morning.

After touring a bio-manufacturing training center, Gov. Easley, First Lady of North Carolina Mary Easley and Clinton held a ceremony at NC State University. The Governor formally expressed his support saying that there was "nothing I love more than a strong powerful woman." Easley concluded his remarks saying Clinton -- "makes Rocky Balboa look like a pansy".

In case anyone has been living under a rock, pansy is slang for "fag."
pan·sy
a. Used as a disparaging term for a man or boy who is considered effeminate.
b. Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.

So, Hillary isn't gay? Or Hillary isn't a weak gay? And of course, gays are something bad that need to be avoided. Now why would Hillary embrace gay-bashing to help her campaign? Well, putting aside the Clintons' history of embracing gay-bashing when it suited them, take a look at what Ben Smith wrote this morning:

Easley is a meaningful ally in the culture war she's waging against Senator Barack Obama, as she seeks to cast him as a hopelessly unelectable liberal elitist...

Oh, so Hillary has launched a "culture war" against Obama. And what are the three elements of the culture wars? God, guns, and gays. Hillary already pulled the God and gun card on Obama in Pennsylvania, where she couldn't even say when she last went to church, and then claimed she was a hunter after a lifetime as one of America's top gun control advocates. And now she's gay-bashing.

And actually, she started subtly gay-bashing a while back. Remember all of her "San Francisco" references? Then there was her top aides calling Obama supporters "latte sippers who only care about "feelings" (i.e., they're a bit effeminate and effete). (Then again, look who's advising her.)

It's ironic. Hillary is afraid to use the word "gay," and gets visibly uncomfortable when answering questions about gay issues. But using slurs for "fag"" doesn't bother her in the least. Hillary and her people will say anything to get elected. And if that means gay-bashing to win the bubba vote, then so be it. And her people wonder why so many have turned on Hillary in the past few months.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/04/hillarys-top-nc-surrogate-bashes-gays.html

[Maribelle]

99. Aravosis is a known hillary-hater of the blogcult. What more do we expect from him?

:boring:

[jefferson_dem]

104. Yeah. It's not like he didn't pile on Obama about the McClurckin thing.

:eyes:

[Debi]

102. You can't choose your family but you can choose your pastor AND

you can reject and denounce those who endorse you that you TRULY disagree with!

No DOMA - No DADT - No anti-gay slurs.

I call on Hillary Clinton to reject the endorsement of Mike Easley. :bounce:

[aquarius dawning]

106. There's actually a VERY interesting story behind the word "Pansy". You have to hear this.

During WW1, German front line soldiers were suffering from shell shock and were unable to fight as a result. Soooo, the German leadership would send them to Dr. Pansy, a German Psychiatrist who was studying electroshock therapy as a means of curing various Psychotic disorders... including shell shock. So, they would send these shell shocked soldiers to Dr. Pansy and he would shock the shit out of them until they were "cured" of their symptoms and then they would get sent back to the front lines. These soldiers were then called "pansies". That being said, the word pansy doesn't intentionally insult homosexuals, it actually insults cowards who are afraid to fight. I suspect that this is more in line with what Easley was getting at.
edit typos

[Debi]

111. I didn't realize the current Governor of NC had served in WWI

and felt so close to that story x(

Your spin is so far the very best :crazy:

[aquarius dawning]

118. I'm not spinning. It's just an interesting story about the origins of a word.

Dr. Panse was a real piece of work too. He exterminated lots of Jews and "genetically deformed" persons and, I believe, avoided punishment. Regardless of all that, I really don't think Easley was slurring gay men directly. pansy is an insult towards weaklings. The German word for pansy is actually "weichling".

[Debi]

127. I guess I'll take you at your word...he wasn't using a homophobic slur as far as you know n.t

[aquarius dawning]

140. I really can't imagine any Democratis politician insulting homosexuals in the name of Hillary

on national television no less. I think it actually insults the intelligence of homosexuals to imply such a thing as it's is obviously a thinly veiled attempt to manipulate them.

[Debi]

152. I think it's for the Governor of NC and Senator Clinton to explain his use of the language he chose

rather than for Clinton's supporters to attempt to interpret or spin his words.


Your trying to place the blame on the Obama camp for this fiasco is admirable, though.

[Laughing Mirror]

158. "Pansy is an insult to wealkings."

So that, too, is OK, in your book?

[yardwork]

185. Thank you for your concern. I'll decide when I'm being manipulated, thanks anyway.

I'm no fan of Easley's. It doesn't surprise me that he would use that word. It does Hillary no good unless she's going for the homophobe vote, and believe me, homophobes in NC won't support a woman for president in the GE. I don't care what they tell pollsters now.

[yellowcanine]

253. The origin of the word is irrelevant. Look up "faggot". It is how it is used now that matters.

You could make the same argument about "n*****". After all it has the same root as Negroid or Negro - meaning "black".

[yardwork]

180. Well, I knew he was old as dirt. Didn't realize he was that old!

[RaleighNCDUer]

156. Making shit up doesn't work in the age of Google.

Something that Hillary also needs to learn.

[aquarius dawning]

207. I didn't make anything up. get a fucking grip.

[RaleighNCDUer]

217. Google it - find the proof, and check back with me.

Pansy, as an appellation for homosexuals, goes back to the mid-19th century in Britain, at least.

There is NO reference to a "Dr. Pansy" anywhere - It would be strange if there were because Pansy is not a German name.

OK - maybe you didn't make it up, but whoever told it to you sure as shit did.

[aquarius dawning]

221. It's Dr. Panse actually. Google that and then go jump off a bridge.

[Debi]

234. If you already researched it why wouldn't you just share your links

rather than get all defensive?

[RaleighNCDUer]

250. Because he really has nothing to back it up. nt

[Name removed]

258. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

260. Touchy, touchy, touchy!

What are you? Some kind of pansy?

[Debi]

287. Again, why so defensive? Just provide a link to your research all the questions will go away n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

246. I wonder why you are so intent on that mythology.

I DID google the first 5 pages of "Dr Panse WW1". A single reference.

Yes, a Dr Friedrich Panse started researching combat fatigue in WW1. Later, did EST experiments for the nazis.

As you pointed out in an earlier post, the German word for weaking is NOT pansy. That is an English word. How would English soldiers come up with a word to describe combat fatigue based on the name of an enemy doctor that none of them ever heard of?

How about YOU googling "Combat fatigue World War 1" and see if you find ANY references to "pansy"?

You already jumped.

[aquarius dawning]

257. German soldiers coined the term, not English soldiers.

The shell shocked soldiers were called "Panse's" as in patients of Dr. Panse. You have done enough research now to see that I made nothing up. There was a Dr. Panse. He was a German physician and a Nazi and he conducted experiments on shell shocked soldiers. You have succesfully connected all the dots. You're just confusing the matter now for why I do not know.

"How about YOU googling "Combat fatigue World War 1" and see if you find ANY references to "pansy"?"

Google is not the repository all known facts and trivia...yet. I gleaned this bit of info from an actual book that I read over 10 years ago. It may have been 20 actually. I don't remember. I just remember the story because I thought it was interesting. Because I find things like word origins interesting.

[RaleighNCDUer]

261. If it was German soldiers, how did it come over to English?

I enjoy etymology as much as anyone, but this story is apocryphal. Somebody noticed a similarity between the German name and the English insult and drew a line between the two.

I've never seen any reference to "pansy" in any literature about shell shock, battle fatigue, soldier's nerves, PTSD, combat stress, or any other designation for the syndrome.

[anigbrowl]

267. There was a Dr Friedrich Panse in WW2. He helped administer a euthanasia program for retarded people

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZwVttu0EtbgC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=friendrich+panse&source=web&ots=Ta0dJYvKdM&sig=Q3WLodFAlf70AHNc3T1N-ll57P0&hl=en#PPA160,M1

Like him, you appear to be a lying sack of shit.

[anigbrowl]

204. Untrue. ECT does not appear in the medical literature until 1938

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugo_Cerletti

[aquarius dawning]

206. perhaps it was WW2 then. I was sure I read WW1 but it was over a decade ago

when I read the story.

[anigbrowl]

266. Where, on a bathroom wall?

[newmajority]

112. This thread needs some Pansy Division

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxyOe0MYKhg

As for Mike Easley..... not surprised. Typical DLC repuke shitbag.

[americanstranger]

125. See post #24!

Didn't post a video link, but I did ref them as using the term 'pansy,' however ironically. :)

- as

[dsc]

114. I am no fan of Easley to begin with

I would have sat out his last race but he double crossed us after I voted for him. This is no help at all. He likely didn't mean to be homophobic but it was thoughtless at best and combined with this less than stellar (and that is being kind) record toward gay rights it doesn't make me warmer toward him. Hopefully Hillary will address this somehow.

[libnnc]

120. Easley's a crooked red neck

I've never really liked him at all.

I don't trust politicians from down east anyway.

[dsc]

129. we have early voting here

and I voted for him before the last debate where he said he would sign an amemdnemt banning same sex marriage, he had always said he wouldn't prior to that. There are some things I like, he was really good to teachers for example, but overall I am not that impressed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

130. Coulda Chosen His Words Better, But It's Still Much Ado About Nothing.

Let's face it: Almost every single person reading this or hearing it knows full well the intent and context of the sentence. Everyone knows off the top of their heads that he was merely implying wimpy and was just ignorant to the origins of the term. To put any other intent other than ignorance to terminology behind it, is just rather dumb. Everyone knows full well what he meant and what he meant was completely benign and non-offensive. Get real here.

Oh, and to call him homophobic for it is beyond insane and irrational. For real.

[Bluebear]

132. It's OK. God delivered Rocky Balboa from homosexuality.

[newmajority]

139. Gimme a break Bluebear

A HillTool uses the word "pansy", and you go for the McCloset reference??

So I guess it's only homophobic if an Obama supporter says it?

[Bluebear]

144. OFFS it was a joke.

OK, yes, here, on record: yes it is homophobic if a Clinton supporter says it too.

On the other hand, where was the big Obama supporter outrage over McClurkin, now that you mention it?

And keep me out of both North and South Carolina for a while.

[Moochy]

305. Here's something that might help with these Hillary Supporter Blind Spots!

[jefferson_dem]

149. Nevermind.

:hi:

[Renew Deal]

155. .

[donheld]

173. "God delivered Rocky Balboa from homosexuality."

Now if God would just deliver us from any more Rocky movies it'd be great.

[IndianaJones]

141. sense when does obama supporters care about this kinda stuff? nt.

[yellowcanine]

163. Since Clinton supporters chose to hold Obama accountable for everything someone who supports him

said.

[IndianaJones]

165. ahh...so its really not the homophobia. nt.

[yellowcanine]

182. No it's homophobic all right - but we wouldn't be as likely to hold Clinton accountable for it

if the Clinton supporters (and Clinton herself) hadn't made such a big deal about Wright et al. It's the hypocrisy. Karma bites, doesn't it?

[IndianaJones]

184. its homophobic, you don't really care, but its a way to jab at Clinton. gotcha. nt.

[yellowcanine]

189. As I said, Karma bites, doesn't it? Goose, gander, etc.

[IndianaJones]

192. karma bites what? I haven't complained about Wright. Irony seems in order...

given the homophobama's reaction to McClurkin and their calls for gays to stop whining and shut up. To each their own.

[yardwork]

187. Gay Obama supporters - I know I'm not the only one here - care.

We care desperately. It really really matters to us that gub'nor Weasely used that term, even though we already knew that he was a jerk.

I'm just amused by the hypocrisy. The fact is that the vast majority of DUers will insist that they don't see a slur even when the people being slurred say that something is a slur. Apparently the people being slurred have no say. We're prejudiced or something. Only the "objective" opinion of slurrers counts, evidently.

[IndianaJones]

193. you can only objectively judge something as a slur if you are not being slurred. nt.

[suston96]

147. Yeah, homophobic...I stopped singing that song a long time ago....

"Gone are the days, when our hearts were young and gay....."

[last_texas_dem]

162. It's doubtful that the word was being used as a homophobic slur in this context

Honestly, I have rarely heard the term "pansy" used, and when I had heard it, had always assumed it was referring to a "wimp." I was called it once (I'm a wimpy straight guy myself) by some jerk in high school and never assumed the guy was saying anything about my sexual preferences, only about my lack of athletic ability (and lack of interest in sports in general, for that matter. I think the fact that I didn't give a shit about whether or not I was good at sports bothered him more than anything, and that was what caused him to go off on me.)

I'm not trying to defend Easley's use of the term; it's a tacky term to use in the context of a political endorsement either way... but it just seems likely to me that Easley was using the term to make a "tough" vs. "wimp" comparison and not a straight vs. gay comparison. I mean, what makes more sense: "Clinton makes Rocky Balboa look like a wimp" or "Clinton makes Rocky Balboa look gay"?

[2rth2pwr]

181. Pansy Division: Life In A Gay Rock Band

The filmakers have made a website for the film: http://www.pansydivisionfilm.com.
You can watch the trailer for the film, plus see an outtake--the band performing "Twinkie Twinkie Little Star" in the studio!
The first chance to hear a song from our upcoming album!

http://www.pansydivision.com/

In the process of doing our film, we have collected a number of performances and clips that didn't make the cut. We've been remiss getting these up on the website, but there is now a Pansy Division You Tube page http://www.youtube.com/user/PansyDivisionvideo and some of them are posted there. One of the more interesting clips is "Pansy Division on TV and in Film," a short compilation of our music being played or us being mentioned on famous shows. There are also clips of two more songs from the upcoming album that you can get a sneak peek at now: "20 Years of Cock" and "You'll See Them Again." Other performances come from various times in the band's history, including clips of "Flower," "Expiration Date," "The Story So Far," "Fluffy City," "Hippy Dude," and more. Check them out!

Other fun PD You Tube stuff:
• Pandas sing Pansy Division! They do "Luv Luv Luv"!
• An appealing "Luv Luv Luv" lip sync! Live intro w/Luis intro.
• A French band with an appealingly odd take on, yes, "Luv Luv Luv"!

There will more to come soon on our website's video page, including some stuff too racy for You Tube.

[totodeinhere]

183. I suspect that the governor had no idea that using that term would be offensive to gay people.

To tell you the truth, I didn't either. And I also think that Hillary didn't realize that it might be offensive so she did not rebuke him for it.

Sometimes I think we tend to be a little too sensitive about things. IMO knowingly making a homophobic remark is unacceptable. But if he didn't even know that some people might think that the remark is offensive, why should he be blamed for it? And after all, the last thing the Clinton campaign needs right now is a controversy like this. So I doubt very seriously if it was intentional.

[yellowcanine]

196. They are both grownup politicians. It is their business to know.

And you could drive a homophobic bus through a loophole like that.

And why didn't we hear such knowing/unknowing loopholes being offered up on Obama's behalf from the Clinton supporters here when Obama made his "bitter" remarks. Clearly they knew Obama is not an elitist or down on church going gun toting rural folks. But that did not stop them (including Clinton herself) from exploiting it for political gain.

[totodeinhere]

235. Both sides need to stop political exploitation.

I'm an Obama supporter but I will defend Clinton when I think she is unfairly attacked. And of course I will defend Obama when he is unfairly attacked. There are too many people on both sides who practice hypocritical selective outrage. They will jump all over the other side over something that if their side did it you wouldn't hear a peep out of them about it.

And as far as "it's their business to know" goes, you can't expect them to know every nuance. They are more concerned with running a campaign. And as you know, as much as a politician has to talk, eventually he or she is going to inadvertently use some sort of phraseology that they might want to take back. But this tendency practiced by both sides right now to hang on each and every word uttered by the candidate they oppose or by one of that candidate's supporters just looking for something to criticize is wrong. That's the type of old style politics that Senator Obama is trying to do away with.

[yardwork]

230. He's governor of my state, and I think he knew exactly what he was doing.

There's an openly gay candidate running for Senate in the primary. Easley supports the more conservative Democrat. Now do you see the connection.

North Carolina helped invent dirty politics. Jesse Helms is still alive and his campaign strategists are still making lots of money working for other politicians, including some Democrats.

I don't hold any of this against Hillary. She didn't say it. However, I'm not about to pretend that Easley didn't say what he said and mean what he said.

[totodeinhere]

236. But how could he possibly benefit from intentionally making an anti gay...

slur while endorsing Hillary for president? It just doesn't make sense to me, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until or if I have more information. I think it's quite a stretch to imply that he intentionally made the remark in order to influence a local primary campaign. Unless you can prove that he did it intentionally, I am not buying it.

I do congratulate you however for not criticizing Hillary over this. The guilt by association tactics practiced by both sides (hello, Rev. Wright,) are not productive to a campaign which should be about our future as a nation and solving problems, not petty campaign tactics.

[yardwork]

242. It's not a local primary. I'm talking about the primary for the next U.S. Senator from NC.

The two senators from North Caroline are both Republican. One of them, Elizabeth Dole, is up for reelection this fall. The primary is to determine her Democratic opponent.

Governor Easley is part of the establishment Democratic Party in NC, which is fairly right-wing. Easley's political career in NC is finished. His second term has been a disaster. He's extremely unpopular. His only hope in politics now is to get a nice position in somebody's administration. Evidently the Clinton campaign offered him something in return for his endorsement. Politics is all about swapping votes and endorsements. Word is that Easley is mad at Obama because Obama refused to debate in NC.

Democrats win in North Carolina when they appeal to a cross-section of voters that includes right-wingers. This is the buckle of the Bible Belt. Right-wingers down here really hate and fear gay people. Reminding bigots of "the gay" gets them all riled up.

Easley used that term very deliberately. He was reminding the right-wing - upon whom Hillary Clinton depends to win the primary here, as she's lost the African American and progressive votes - of "the gay." Since bigotry tends to lump things together, reminding bigots of their fear of gay people also reminds them of their fear of black people. It's all one big scary thing to bigots.

So Easley's use of the term "pansy" was red meat to a constituency he knows and depends on - white bigots.

[totodeinhere]

247. Do you think I'm stupid?

Of course I know who the senators are from NC and that Dole is running for re election. You don't need to lecture me on facts that I am already well aware of. And your innuendo about Easley is not welcome. It is nothing more than your opinion that Clinton offered him something, just like it's your opinion that Easley's remarks were intentionally anti gay. Reasonable people might very well disagree with you.

[yardwork]

251. Do you really want me to answer that? LOL!

You called it a "local primary campaign." I thought I'd been unclear in my earlier post, so I clarified that I was talking about the U.S. Senate campaign. Why did you take offense to my clarification?

Far more interesting to me is your taking offense at my "innuendo" about Easley. Is he your brother, over there in Nevada? I didn't intend any innuendo. No, I intended to make my opinion about Easley crystal clear. I think he's a weasel who has destroyed the state's mental health system and now pretends that he didn't have anything to do with it. I think he's a coward who fired his press secretary rather than admit the truth about his own decisions. I think he's a crook who ordered emails to and from his office deleted, in violation of state law. I think he's a homophobe who has done absolutely nothing for gay rights in this state while pandering to homophobes by coming out in favor of a state amendment against gay marriage - late in his last campaign (he got a twofer for that - cowardly and homophobic). I think he's a right-wing former prosecutor who is responsible for putting some people in jail who are innocent.

Want more? I think that Easley is a washed-up politician who is selling his endorsements - what little they're worth - to the highest bidder. And yes, I think he deliberately used a homophobic term to appeal to white racist homophobic bigot voters. Now, if you see some innuendo there, please let me know, and I'll be sure to clear it up!

[totodeinhere]

271. LOL. Now tell us how you really feel about him.

About my use of the word "local," I simply meant not national. But you are right, local should refer to local jurisdictions such as cities and counties. I should have used something like "state-wide." So I guess I misspoke. Sometimes that can happen. And the same thing may apply to what the good governor said. He might have misspoken just like I did.

[yardwork]

272. It's possible. I genuinely meant no offense to you or any DUer.

[RememberWellstone]

186. How about pu$$y? Is that better?

I thought pansy meant weakling..does pussy relay a better analogy or is that homophobic too? I am guessing it would'nt be since gay men do not prefer that word?:shrug:

[Divine Discontent]

248. "I am guessing it would'nt be since gay men do not prefer that word? :shrug:"

is it your goal to be an incredibly insenstive jerk today? just wondering. because that's what this post implies you're behaving like.

[VotesForWomen]

195. it's not good, but i assume she didn't know what he was going to say. it's not quite the same

as associating with a guy who's made a carreer out of gay-bashing - Obama/McClurkin.

[yardwork]

198. I agree. I don't hold it against Hillary - she didn't say it.

However, I'm starting to hold it against Hillary's campaign that so many Hillary supporters here are trying to claim that the term is not homophobic. Come on.

[Debi]

201. Wait, what?

And what about all the folks holding Wright against Obama?

[yardwork]

223. I think that's stupid, too.

I have a long list of stupid things that the right-wing is trying to get us to fight among ourselves over. Refusing to be drawn into stupidity isn't the same as pretending something isn't what it is, though.

It's possible to simultaneously recognize Easley's slur as a slur while not holding it against Hillary.
It's possible to simultaneously recognize that Iran has homophobic laws while not being in favor of invading Iran.
It's possible to simultaneously recognize that Reverend Wright made some good points while acknowledging that some of what he's said is indefensible, and still simultaneously recognize that either way, it doesn't make Obama any less qualified to be president.

This kind of nuance seems to be difficult for a small but loud minority here on DU to grasp.

[Debi]

231. Ahhhhhh

See, and I was just going along with the whole goose and gander bit :shrug:

[yellowcanine]

199. Nothing is ever quite the same. He said it. She ignored it. Her not knowing he was going to say

it doesn't excuse her unwillingness to call him on it.

[yardwork]

244. In her defense, I can't think of a way for her to "call him on it"

that wouldn't have looked really awkward. Maybe I'm giving her too much of a pass, but I really don't hold this against Hillary at all. I hold it against Easley, though.

[yellowcanine]

249. All she would have said was, "Well thanks for the intro but I would not have put it that way and I

find it somewhat distasteful." Awkward? Maybe. But the use of "pansy" was the real awkwardness.

[Ka hrnt]

197. Political Correctness run amok...

Strange that the PC movement, started by the left, has now come around to bite the hand that fed it. The republicans must be LOLing at this thread. Anyone remember this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/jan99/district27.htm

So "pansy" is no longer okay to use. Lord knows "niggardly" isn't allowed, because it SOUNDS like--but has NO relationship to whatsoever--the "n-word." I think we need to come up with a list of words that must be banned because they could have a negative (read: racially derogatory) connotation.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this thread.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

209. Not PC run amok, Obamites only care about homophobia to express faux outrage about it

as a way to attack Hillary. The governor meant the word the same as "wimp", and everyone knows it.

[yardwork]

222. You are offensive. I support Obama, I'm gay, and I know full well what was meant by the term.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

229. Using a faux accusation of homophobia as a partisan tool is what's offensive, dear

[Coexist]

202. oh my, I missed this.

[Cha]

211. Well I'm glad the idiot cleared that up for us.

Like I give a shit. hilary is for hilary..Any idiot could see what liar she is.

<snip>

Clinton, during a late December campaign appearance in Iowa, described a hair-raising corkscrew landing in war-torn Bosnia, a trip she took with her then-teenage daughter, Chelsea. "They said there might be sniper fire," Clinton said.

Threat of bullets? Sinbad doesn't remember that, either.

"I never felt that I was in a dangerous position. I never felt being in a sense of peril, or 'Oh, God, I hope I'm going to be OK when I get out of this helicopter or when I get out of his tank.'"

In her Iowa stump speech, Clinton also said, "We used to say in the White House that if a place is too dangerous, too small or too poor, send the First Lady."

Say what? As Sinbad put it: "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

<more>
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.html

[stevenleser]

218. Hillbots: Pansy=ok to say, Bitch=You are an effing bigot

Its the hypocrisy, stupid!

[Zachstar]

264. Bingo!!!

[stevenleser]

306. Kick

36 hours and no word from the Clinton camp or Easley administration

[spooky3]

227. Edwardian here - Easley should not have used this term.

It can also be seen as mildly insulting to women, since it can be seen as insulting men by accusing them of having feminine (horrors!) characteristics.

[Maribelle]

233. Rocky is a fictional character, and it came off to many simply as a joke.

And as a southerner I can honestly say I have never once heard the term as a degrading insult to gays.

[yellowcanine]

237. I was wondering when the "just a joke" defense would show up. Congratulations.

And the "I have never heard it as ....." is also predictable and not a valid defense either. I'll bet you have lots of gay friends who call each other pansies also.

[Maribelle]

239. So you think Rocky is a real person?

Figures.

[yellowcanine]

243. No and I don't see the logic of how that changes anything. Nice try at

"erect straw man, knock down straw man" though.

[spooky3]

259. He may not have had bad intentions, but it's still an inappropriate term

A Democrat, particularly one speaking to a televised audience, should be more aware and do better than that.

Just as non-gays don't get to trump gays' feelings about what is offensive to gays, or men to women, or whites to blacks, etc., it's not a defense to say it was a joke, or "I didn't realize it." It's our job as progressives to do better.

At the same time I don't think it is a hanging offense.

[Maribelle]

265. If the Governor was well aware that the term was used commonly to insult gays I would agree with you

I personally was not aware it was used to insult gays. But that's not the point.

I was accused of being a racists right here on DU-P because I said to an Obama supporter referring to Obama as 'your boy'. However, I come from a southern culture deep into things such as Nascar racing where we use the term constantly to refer to our favorite race driver, or other favorites as a positive expression. For example, if a race was on when I came home, I would think nothing of saying to my husband "how's your boy doing?" No excuses. That's the way it is.

I would be the last person to deny we need to improve our culture to be more sensitive to other's feelings and considerations. However, let's not severely bash and insult innocent people to the point where the punishment far exceeds the imagined crime, such as over flexible terms that are not hardly meant as insults that can have multiple meanings, just because one version 'could' be used to insult someone else.

I am amazed at the discrepancy in the vernacular in this day and age, nonetheless.

[anigbrowl]

268. Guess the governor's just on of them 'good old boys'.

You're just whistling Dixie, according to my friend in NC. He said you would know what this meant.

[Maribelle]

269. Of course I know what whistling Dixie means.

Sorry to disappoint. And that expression is a double edge sword, don't you know. Trying to explain important information to closed minded dunces is often considered to be just whistling Dixie.

[anigbrowl]

296. Sure it is. Like pansy is just a delicate flower.

[yardwork]

281. Give me a break. If you are from Florida, you should know better

than to refer to a black man as a "boy." I live in the south, too, and I'm well aware of the habit of referring to "your boy." However, white speakers are careful to avoid this word when speaking to or about black men, because of the long and very nasty history that word has in putting down black men.

I don't believe that you don't know that. And, for that matter, I find it hard to believe that you've never heard the word "pansy" applied as a gay slur. You protest too much.

[Maribelle]

299. Horse Hockey. Most of my friends use the term in the way I posted.

Goggle florida nascar "your boy" you'll get 11,000 hits as of this date/time
goggle florida nascar "my boy" you'll get 23,800 hits as of this date/time

In each search you would be hard pressed to find one that uses "your boy" or "my boy" as a racist slur. Then pull out 'florida' from your searches and watch the hits skyrocket.

Y'all need to give your hate button a rest for a while. Truly.

[yardwork]

301. Reading comprehension isn't one of your skills, is it?

You obviously didn't read my post, didn't understand it, or, more likely, chose to pretend not to understand it.

[Maribelle]

303. I understood your post. Your subjective pomp is not true, not based on facts ...

and totally biased.

You've tried to read my mind and then tried to bash me with your imaginary reading.

I gave you actual objective proof of the wide-spread use of the term in Florida, in the south.


You gave zero zilch nada proof for your rant, just more subjective bashing of me.


But I do need to add, I love it when you obama supporters play this pitiful game of pretending you can read others minds, showing off how much swamp gas your pomp is based on. Have at it, hero!

[NorthCarolina]

286. Well, you're the first in the South I was ever aware of

that didn't know "pansy" was derogatory of gays, honestly.

[rocktivity]

254. Maybe he confused "pansy" with "shrinking violet."

which is a timid, wimpy person of either gender.

:shrug:
rocknation

[Neecy]

262. This is an interesting discussion....

So many straight Hillary supporters trying to portray 'pansy' as anything other than a slur against gay men.

This pisses me off - I've been an Obama supporter from the beginning and was regularly insulted here by my fellow gay and lesbian members over the McClurkin incident. Now that Hillary stands there smiling while her new supporter uses a slur against gay men everyone's scrambling to justify it. Flowers my ass! We KNOW how this term is used and who it's used against. I was deeply offended when I watched the clip this afternoon and shocked that Hillary stood there silent.

Are you all going to demand that she repudiate this guy, the way everyone sucked the very last drop out of McClurkin? :crickets:

[Zachstar]

263. Bingo! And it is time for this crap to fade in the democratic party.

Sad thing is that his endorsement has given Clinton a boost in NC. Even with the pansy comment.

Hard to deny when it is right there in the dictionary.

[demo dutch]

270. Nonsense, Easley is very popular, so you're waisting your breath. Besides he

supports an openly gay man running for the dem nomination against Eliabeth Dole

[Zachstar]

273. So the dictionary is wrong?

[Debi]

288. Look upthread - depends on which dictionary you use

x(

[Zachstar]

295. Now what does THAT sound like?

[yardwork]

275. Wait. This is interesting. Has Easley really come out in support of Jim Neal?

I thought that Easley was supporting Kay Hagan's candidacy. Do you have a link to Easley's support of Jim Neal? That would be very interesting.

[Hippo_Tron]

277. There are no Archie Bunker Democrats, the term you're looking for is "Republicans"

[Dr Fate]

290. Or at best "Swing voters." n/t

n/t

[malik flavors]

292. Reagan democrats are pretty Archie Bunkerish.

[yellowcanine]

300. How about Archie Andrews Democrats, do they exist?

[Toucano]

278. What a moron!

That's just so wrong.

Why can't people think before they open their mouths?

[dailykoff]

280. As long as he doesn't use the word "diesel"

he won't get thrown under the bus.

:rofl:

[ecstatic]

289. Kick. Where is the outrage?!? HRC hasn't denounced yet either nt

[ShaneGR]

291. Fag, Queer, Dyke, Fairy, Fruit.....

Plenty of anti-gay slurs out there. I would have never thought of pansy being one of them. That's a universal term, commonly used by kids, to describe someone considered weak at something. "Tommy's such a pansy, he never wants to stand up for himself." I've been called a Pansy. As a kid I probably called many other young boys that word. It had nothing to do with sexuality.

[goclark]

293. She needs to denounce him immediately!

He knew what he was saying and there should be no place for that language from a public official.

Can you imagine the outrage if this was a remark made by an Obama supporter!

[littlebit]

294. Give me a damn break.

Do some of you get offended at every word that comes out of a public figures mouth? I am gay and I do not find the offensive at all. All of this "pc" bullshit is starting to get a little old.

[JMDEM]

302. "Pansy" is derogatory towards gays?

Obama supporter here, and I REALLY DON'T LIKE Hillary -- but I was never aware of that! I just thought "pansy" meant a weak person in general. I'm sure the Guv was capable of the same mistake.

I guess it's a good thing he didn't use the term (slang for a cat) instead. Hillary would have put him in a full nelson and slammed him to the mat like Hulk Hogan.

Come on now -- we have REAL issues to discuss. Not this crap.