Vengeance as Campaign Motivator

[WilliamPitt]

Settling Scores
If Hillary Clinton finds a way to win, she'll have a long list of grudges and grievances.

Elanor Clift
Newsweek
Apr 25, 2008

I'm beginning to think Hillary Clinton might pull this off and wrestle the nomination away from Barack Obama. If she does, a lot of folks—including a huge chunk of the media—will join Bill Richardson (a.k.a. Judas) in the Deep Freeze. If the Clintons get back into the White House, it will be retribution time, like the Corleone family consolidating power in "The Godfather," where the watchword is, "It's business, not personal."

Not that anyone will be sleeping with the fishes with Hillary in the White House, but with the Clintons it's business and it's personal. Just think of all the scores to settle, the grievances to indulge. Bill Clinton provided a preview this week, blaming the Obama campaign for playing the race card against him. Tricky maneuver, but perhaps the only way the former president can come to grips with his loss of standing in the African-American community, once his strongest constituency. (South Carolina Rep. James Clyburn, an undeclared superdelegate who is African-American, told the New York Times this week that the black community had supported Clinton during his impeachment and that "I think black folks feel strongly that this is a strange way for him to show his appreciation.")

There's never been any love lost between the Clintons and official Washington. The Georgetown dinner parties they rarely attended during the Bill years might as well be in Outer Mongolia for all President Hillary will care. Notables who abandoned her for Obama will get the Big Chill. "He's dead to us," a Clinton aide was quoted saying of John Kerry, who along with Ted Kennedy was turned off by the perception of race baiting that led up to the South Carolina primary. A major donor, conflicted between the two candidates and apologetic over his backing of Obama, found Hillary less than sympathetic. "Too bad for you, because I'm going to win," she snapped.

During the 1992 campaign the pundits wrote off Bill Clinton, certain he couldn't survive allegations of infidelity and draft dodging. Aides strung together (with a background of Frank Sinatra singing "They All Laughed") declarations by many of the biggest names in journalism that Clinton was toast and would never be elected president. Hillary's people could do a miniseries on this campaign documenting her multiple comebacks and the egg on the media's face. When the polls closed in Pennsylvania and the race was for a short while too close to call, you could see the barely restrained glee among the commentators that perhaps the moment had finally arrived: Hillary might be gone!

Hillary lost the media a long time ago through a combination of arrogance and entitlement, but she has won grudging respect in some unlikely quarters. Conservative commentators Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough are openly rooting for her, and Tony Blankley, who first gained notoriety as Newt Gingrich's spokesman, confessed somewhat sheepishly, "She's almost beginning to appeal to me." This is a stunning development given Blankley's long and storied history as a Hillary hater. He was recognized in the Washington Post Style section in the early 1990s as the first to call Hillary "Evita," after Argentina's Eva Peron, an ambitious, strong-willed woman who used her husband's position to gain power. The turning point for Blankley was that moment in Pennsylvania when Hillary downed a shot of Crown Royal whiskey "like she'd done it before," says Blankley. "The way she threw it down, she didn't sip it. I know something about that. I've done it myself," he chuckles.

More: http://www.newsweek.com/id/134012

[Forkboy]

1. What does it say when you turn off Kerry and Kennedy but appeal to Buchanan and Blankley?

:scared:

[Pirate Smile]

12. And your main surrogates (Rendell and McAuiliffe) run around praising Faux News.

[SunsetDreams]

2. Delusional first sentence

[roguevalley]

24. why?

[The Magistrate]

3. Vengeance, Sir, Is A Leading Human Motivator

It seems to leave love, and even lust, shrouded in its dust....

[cali]

17. that may indeed be true, Magistrate, but it's not a helpful

quality in a President. Wouldn't it be preferable to have someone in the oval office who didn't nurse old wounds lovingly and get distracted by dreams of revenge? I'm not suggesting that Ms. Clift is necessarily spot on here, but the Clintons both have a certain reputation for seeking to even the score.

[The Magistrate]

23. It Is Not My Practice, Ma'am, To Expect More Than Common Humanity From Human Beings

"Were saints not rare, they would attract no notice at all."

[cali]

27. ok, I'm no angel, but i'll dance on the head of your pin, sir

what does such a broad generalization even mean, when you come right down to it? And by broad generalization, I'm referring to the term "common humanity". Do you expect more out of Hillary Clinton than John McCain? To be sure they share "common humanity", but what aspects of that common humanity? In some people some aspects of our common humanity prevail over others, no?

[The Magistrate]

29. In Regard To The Question Of Vengeance, Ma'am

My expectation is that people will take it when they have opportunity, because it is rare that they do not. The drive is very basic, and long pre-dates the complex social organization we are pleased to refer to as civilization. All codes of law emerged as simply regulations of personal vengeance so that it would not too greatly disturb a community in which the feud was contained. It therefore does no more than bring me slight amusement when someone hyper-ventilates over the propensity of someone or other towards vengeance, or the prospect vengeance will be taken.

"Bless your enemies, they point out your path."

[cali]

36. It's been my observation that it's a "hard drive" function is many people

and not in others. And though it provide your jaded and superior intellect to find nothing but amusement in the dislike that some hold for such behavior, I find that the occasion is what drives my level of concern. After all, the drive toward vengeance causes more than hurt feelings in many a circumstance. Are you as amused by the outrage against vengeance that leads to stark consequences? I do however, have a little quote you might enjoy.

"It is only hypocrites who cannot forgive hypocrisy".

Penned by an extraordinarily insightful man.

[The Magistrate]

38. That Is An Excellent Line, Ma'am: Thank You

It may well enter the rotation.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Yep.

"He tried to kill my daddy."

Gawd help us if the DLC takes the WH.

[GarbagemanLB]

4. The problem with that article is...she has already lost.

[Guaranteed]

8. Eleanor must not be very good with numbers. nt

[blm]

15. Exactly - all media knows it, and HAVE known it since Super Tuesday and McClatchy's survey of supers

completed shortly after.


I posted this in a thread on March 7, after I heard the original article written to include the results of the survey of supers was edited heavily to downplay the fact that there was NO WAY Hillary could win.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Here is my original post:


blm Fri Mar-07-08 02:53 PM

Original message
TeamClinton constantly mentions the SHARED ticket because they KNOW that's ALL they can hope for.


Mr blm's newsroom has the details of a study that surveyed the leanings of all the superdelegates. The study concluded that there is no scenario that Hillary can win.

I don't know when the report will get published, it has been on hold for a couple days now. I expect it to become public soon. TeamClinton knows these facts, too.

Hillary's camp right now is playing a game of pressuring Obama to include them on the ticket or the attacks will continue.

THAT is the character of the Clinton campaign. They KNOW they can't win it, but will undermine and attack the presumptive nominee until they gain something from it.

[The Magistrate]

16. More Likely, Ma'am

They hope to change some minds, enough to break the tape, and against clear odds count on their lucky star to bring them through....

"If you only hold on long enough, the other fellow will give way."

[JackORoses]

21. The Clintons don't have any Lucky Stars, Ma'am

You lose those when you seek personal gain over public well-being.
Instant Karma, and all...

[The Magistrate]

25. People's Belief, Sir, that They Have Such a Star

Seems to be quite independent of whether such a thing exists.

There is no more universal and dependable feature of human beings that a tendency to greatly over-rate the chances they will succeed in an endeavor dear to their hearts.

[EFerrari]

26. I can't place the quote but it sounds like Moby Dick.

[The Magistrate]

30. One Of Napoleon's Battle Maxims, Ma'am

Here is another favorite from the same source:

"The art of war consists in a well reasoned and extremely circumspect defense, followed by audacious attack."

[WilliamPitt]

35. "My centre is giving way, my right is retreating, situation excellent, I am attacking."

— Ferdinand Foch, September 1914

:)

He won the fight, too.

He was then selected to command the newly formed Ninth Army, which he was to command during the First Battle of the Marne and the Race to the Sea. With his Chief of Staff Maxime Weygand, Foch managed to do this while the whole French Army was in full retreat. Only a week after taking command of 9th Army, he was forced to fight a series of defensive actions to prevent a German breakthrough. It was then that he spoke the famous words: "Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I attack." His counter-attack was an implementation of the theories he had developed during his staff college days, and succeeded in stopping the German advance. Foch received further reinforcements from the Fifth Army and, following another attack on his forces, counter-attacked again on the Marne. The Germans dug in before eventually retreating. Foch had been instrumental in stopping the great retreat and stabilising the Allied position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Foch

[The Magistrate]

37. A Lucky Blusterer, My Friend

The doctrines he developed in staff college were murderously futile, and wrecked the French army so badly in the opening pass that not only it, but the nation itself, has never fully recovered. The only French general worth his salt in the Great War was Marshal Petain, whose maxim "Cannon conquers; infantry occupies" is at once the soundest advice, the encapsulated history, and ghastly epitaph of that conflict.

[EFerrari]

43. Keeper! LOl! n/t

[EFerrari]

42. Thank you. And come to think of it, it sounds more like my mom.

:evilgrin:

[The Magistrate]

44. Odd That You Should Say That, Ma'am

It is certainly the operational doctrine of my grandsons regarding treats at the corner store, trips to the park, whether the millipede can be brought into the house, and various other matters, and also in the various conflicts they contrive between themselves over seats and toys and television programs....

[EFerrari]

47. LOL!

You sound as if you are holding fast to your end, Sir.

:)

[The Magistrate]

49. Not Really, Ma'am

Once they know you will not really hurt them, the jig is up....

"A man who says he loves his wife, he loves his daughter, and he loves a good hamburger, had better be meaning something different each time."

[Major Hogwash]

19. The cat's out of the bag!!

And boy is she pissed off about it!!


The media went deaf as a doornail on the 5th of February. They were in shock. Hillary hadn't "wrapped it up" like she had told all of them it would be. The media didn't want to hear the truth. They didn't want to acknowledge that Obama was the nominee. They didn't want to examine the cold hard facts. They didn't want to look at the numbers.

But, now, with only 9 measly, puny, little primaries left, they know that we know what they knew when they knew it - and they didn't tell anyone.

But, we knew.
But only because of people like you and grantcart and others.

That's why it is easy for me to deflect the crap thrown at me by other DU members about how "great" Hillary is. It's not going to matter now.

[H2O Man]

5. Very interesting.

Nominated.

[backscatter712]

6. Maybe we should concentrate on plotting vengeance against the Republicans.

Assuming the circular firing squad doesn't derail us for November, we'll be looking at a Democratic President and a firmly Democratic Congress.

Time to fire all the GOP hacks in the executive branch that Bush put in who are driving this country into the ground.

Time to implement an all Democratic agenda - universal health care, an end to the war, etc.

Time to exact vengeance on the corporate fucks who've been playing games with our government. Maybe time to do some anti-trust lawsuits and break em up!

Time to bring back the Fairness doctrine and tighten the media ownership rules down, HARD. Payback's a bitch, Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and the rest of you professional trolls!

[WilliamPitt]

10. Bah.

Humbug.

;)

Good to see you.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. I'm not interested in vengeance - merely justice.

Well. OK. Maybe a LITTLE vengeance.

[WilliamPitt]

34. Justice would be vengeance. Vengeance delivered justly.

Laws and stuff. I remember those.

[mmonk]

7. Quite interesting and recommended.

My overall view of things has been vindicated by observations of others.

[Yael]

9. Facts are meaningless, I guess

She was doing shots in Indiana, not PA, but whatever. Sloppy for Newsweek not to catch that.

[KaptBunnyPants]

11. How does she win?

If she were given the nomination, it would have to be either by a rule change permitting Florida and Michigan, a superdelegate overturning of the popular mandate, or both. Any one of those options would crack the Democratic Party in two, possibly permanently, but at least for several decades. What would the Democratic Party look like without black people? Would it even be a regional party at that point?

[bbgrunt]

13. and to implement her vengeance she would

most certainly employ every tool of the imperial unitary executive.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Hunter S Thompson was right about the Clintons

on their vengeance and backstabbing.

[WillyT]

18. Hey Will ??? - Do You Think That That's Why Many Super-Delegates...

are still waiting to see how this ends? Because they are afraid that Hillary might just find a way to pull this thing off?

And they know what will happen to their political fortunes if they endorse for Obama now, and Hillary ends up taking the thing?

Am I making ANY sense here, LOL???

:shrug:

[mmonk]

20. I'm not speaking for Will but you're making some sense.

[XemaSab]

28. I think you are making sense

She's like the White Witch: she has the power to turn political careers to stone.

[WilliamPitt]

40. Interesting.

My theory is that she'll stay in as long as the funds are there.

Unless she taps the family accounts...but if it comes to that, I hope she'll be savvy enough to recognize such a move as the final swirl down the campaign spout (see: Mitt "Bad Money After Bad" Romney).

As for the SD's, yeah, they're keeping their heads down out of a well-tuned instinct for self-preservation. If Senator Clinton quit tomorrow, those SD's would still be veeeeeeery polite to her, because she and her husband and their crew still throw a lot of weight in the party. Win or lose, she can fuck people up if she chooses to...some phone calls to certain donors asking them to shut off the money tap that some SD who went Obama needs for their next campaign.

Politics. Helmets and mouth-guards recommended.

[Major Hogwash]

50. Not now.

At one time a phone call to a donor might have cut off funds to someone else, but they overplayed their hand. They played the infamous race card - and that is what cost them the game.

[dailykoff]

22. She's right except for the first part about Hillary pulling it off

and the part about the Hillary losing the media. Hillary's sure she's going to "win" partly because the media is on the CIA payroll and thus supporting her. I imagine Eleanor Clift knows this.

What she doesn't seem to have grasped yet is that we the people are onto the whole stinking scam and are sick of being lied to.

:mad:

[anonymous171]

31. She would be a democratic Nixon.

[Guaranteed]

41. That is fucking profound. nt

[bigtree]

39. fantasy

this is why you show up here? To spread this nonsense? What a waste.

[DemGa]

45. Just seeing Ted Kennedy's face with a Clinton win would be a bonus

Kennedy - who screwed Carter in 1980 - and gave us freaking Ronald Reagan. That faction of the "Dems" cares about nothing but its own agenda.

[blm]

46. Baloney. You know little about what actually went down then to make that claim.

.

[DemGa]

48. Kennedy ran against a sitting Dem President to the convention

- splitting the Dems and weakening Carter.

"Carter was still able to maintain a substantial lead even after Kennedy swept the last batch of primaries in June. Despite this, Kennedy refused to drop out, and the 1980 Democratic National Convention was one of the nastiest on record. On the penultimate day, Kennedy conceded the nomination and called for a more liberal party platform in what many saw as the best speech of his career. On the platform on the final day, Kennedy for the most part ignored Carter."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries%2C_1980#The_primaries