Hillary rallies across FL against DNC.... surrogates building anger on purpose toward DNC

[madfloridian]

That is the tactic. Keeping people angry at the party which set rules. Keeping people stirred up and ready to scream.

That is her tactic about Florida. I see it is also started in Michigan. Assume the worst, don't give up those 40% "uncommitteds". They are going to try to strip them for Hillary. Fight back.

I am getting bad vibes now. There is one thing we know for sure...that if someone is playing by their own rules with no concern for others...it is easier for them to win.

Especially if the media is working with them, spreading the rules of the campaign as the true rules. It's a win win situation for the one who does not recognize rules.

There is no excuse for her campaign starting rallies across the state of Florida. It is pathetic they are busing people to DC to rally in front of the DNC.

Florida's back in thick of Demo mess

Rallies are planned Saturday in seven Florida cities, including Miami and Fort Lauderdale, to demand that the national party count Florida's delegates. Hundreds of activists are also expected to ride buses to Washington to rally Wednesday.

''This has to do with our civil rights,'' said Millie Herrera, a potential Clinton convention delegate and the president of the Hispanic Democratic Caucus of Florida. ``No one has the right to invalidate our votes.''

Civil rights? Equal rights? Where did I hear that before? Oh, I remember. I am getting the feeling that all these lawsuits and these rallies are coordinated. Feel free to convince me I am wrong.

Suing DNC for discriminating against white people in Florida

What an interesting turn of the worm. Sometime next week, we may have democrats suing democrats for carrying out a very democratic policy of advancing minorities. Steinberg and DiMaio acknowledge with a grin that their reverse racism accusation will ruffle feathers, but hope the conservative judiciary will be delighted to strike a blow against affirmative action and rule in their favor. Their only objective, they claim, is to see all of Florida's delegates seated based on the January 31st primary election.

Meanwhile she sends Bill Nelson out to threaten blood on the convention floor.

Senator Bill Nelson is a Florida super delegate who supports Sen. Hillary Clinton for president. He was asked what a narrow win for her would mean in Pennsylvania.

It's probably that it's over. If it's a big win, she's all the way to the convention, says Nelson. He defines a big win as 7 percent or more and a narrow win as 4 percent or less.

If the Democratic race is contested up to the convention, Nelson predicts, There will be blood on the floor. His theory if delegates from Florida and Michigan are not seated, it will be unlikely voters will support a Democratic nominee.

Nelson declined to say if he would ask Clinton to bow out if her Pennsylvania victory is not overwhelming.

Meanwhile back at the ranch we have ever reliable Clinton enforcer Lanny Davis going on Fox News and saying Howard Dean should resign. The good old "hit em hard" "hit em from all sides" tactics.

The media loves it. They eat it up.

Lanny Davis says Dean should resign

But wait....it is not about the Florida mess. It is accusing Dean of stopping the NC debate. If he did, God bless him.

Hillary backer Lanny Davis, the self-appointed raging id of the Hillary campaign (or one of them, anyway), pushed the envelope pretty hard in a Fox News interview a little while ago, saying that Howard Dean should resign as DNC chair if he had anything to do with killing the North Carolina debate.

..."Asked if he thought Dean did in fact have something to do with nixing the debate, Davis demurred, and pivoted off the question into a denunciation of Obama.

As I've noted here before, the tensions between Dean and Hillary's top fundraisers and surrogates has simmered behind the scenes for weeks now over Dean's inability to get the Florida and Michigan standoffs resolved.

The other day, those tensions boiled over when Hillary's top donors teed off on Dean publicly for his suggestion that super-delegates should begin deciding who to support "starting now."

But no one in the Clinton camp had ever thought to use the "R" word -- "resign" -- until now.

It is all politics after all. Anything to win. Do anybody in to win. Politics as usual. Anger.

[newmajority]

1. Fuck Lanny Davis and the Clintons he rode in on.

What has that leech done for the Democratic party??

There would be no Democratic party left after the 2002 WARMONGERING SELLOUT, if not for Howard Dean. And Barack Obama.

[goclark]

3. yes indeed

[ShortnFiery]

9. Lanny Davis!?! IMO, a man who is seemingly the personification of "smarmy."

Joe Scarborough truly PISSES ME OFF :grr:, whereas Lanny Davis ... seriously CREEPS ME OUT! :scared: :puke:

[kwenu]

2. She must be so impressive to superdelegates. I'll bet they are clawing at the chance

to strike her down come June.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

75. indeed - their shrill cries of "Hillary Hillary" are deafening

[papau]

4. LOL- just because Dean used the DFA for Obama and ruled zero rather than half delegate punishment ?

[madfloridian]

8. She is making her own rules. She is about HER, not Democrats.

I did not believe the right wing in the 90s about how the Clintons were. I adored them and defended and supported them.

Now I see another side. I wish I didn't.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

78. "Some are calling the Florida Primary a “beauty contest” .. the results “essentially won’t count..."

Some are calling the Florida Primary a “beauty contest” and saying the results “essentially won’t count.” Should Democrats vote that day? ...
www.makeitcountflorida.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

79. Democratic National Committee panel voted to give Florida 30 days to amend its plan

Democratic National Committee panel voted to give Florida 30 days to amend its plan
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2007-08-25-florida_N.htm

[redqueen]

5. It's been clear that was their plan for a while now.

Sad that so many seem to be a-ok with it.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

76. and the evil plan of Clinton advisor Howard Ickes as well

he served on the committee that voted for the primary dates and sanctions.

[redqueen]

110. It amazes me that some of her supporters will swear up and down

that those rules weren't agreed to by her campaign.

[paulk]

6. if the DNC "rules" disenfranchise 3.2 million Democrats

then those voters have every right to be angry.

[ShortnFiery]

12. B.S. The good people of FL should be angry at their State Democratic Leaders who attempted to

circumvent the rules, i.e., CHEAT and/or PRIME the system in their favor.

BLAME your State Democratic Leaders FL ... they did not WORK WITH the DNC who implored them - with every DAMN OPPORTUNITY to *follow the rules* ... you know like we do in a true Democratic Republic. :shrug:

[paulk]

27. it doesn't matter who they "should" be angry at

it matters who they "will" be angry at. They will be angry at the Democratic Party and enough of them will be angry enough to cost us this election. IMO.

[SwampG8r]

68. floridian weighing in

i am a floridian
so let me weigh in before the ship of DU is sunk beneath the bullshit brigade that represents mrs clinton

we arent disenfranchised
you are using the word wrong
if they dont let us vote in the GE
THAT will be disenfranchisement
a primary is a private party function
if everyone here voted for edwards would we be disenfranchised by his not being a candidate at the end of the PARTY nominating vote? no we would not

aqnd as to the dnc all they asked was for a show of good faith
instead the party leaders here went laughing to vote WITH the gop on the date change
112-1

let me repeat for the hard of thinking 112-1
as a floridian i am glad to see that not one of our dirty cheating lying dlc members will get a seat
and i am working to unseat every dirty lying cheating corrupt one of them

[paulk]

69. blah blah blah

I dont believe a word you say.

[anigbrowl]

88. What's your damn problem? All he's doing is repeating what the FL state legislature did

The legislature votes are a matter of public record. what's your problem with people pointing out what is manifestly true and verifiable?

[paulk]

97. my problem is this

"let me repeat for the hard of thinking 112-1"

I'm sick and tired of being insulted by the Obama faithful

especially the newbies who have completely changed the atmosphere around here these last few months

with these kind of tactics

[JAbuchan08]

98. If you're sick of being insulted

maybe you should get educated.

Obviously it's a lot easier to say "don't insult me than it is to change your behavior in such a way that it garners respect.

[madfloridian]

119. You have a way of making "blah blah blah" sound so wise.

Could you elaborate?

[paulk]

122. being a floridian doesn't automatically make one's opinion

of what constitutes "disenfranchisement" any more valid.

And the generic anti-DLC rant tacked on the end, which had no relation to the topic at hand, does not lead me to believe the poster was interested in any real exchange of information.

Kind of reminds me of you, actually.

[Duke Newcombe]

83. Then screw it. Let's play "chicken" with FL

I'm beyond giving a damn about folks who don't get the concept of "order" and "rules", let alone can't vote properly.

If I could get a handsaw big enough, and shear the state off to float away into the Caribbean, I'd do it.

Duke

[paulk]

121. this is the thing - you can cite order and rules for the organization

known as the DNC - but when you get half of the party pissed at you over those "rules" - that half being those that support Hillary Clinton in this matter - you've got a lot bigger problem than just Florida. The people pissed off at you are members of that organization known as the Democratic Party also - and this isn't a game where the ref makes the call, the players go home, and then everyone shows up to play again the next day. There is no requirement to keep supporting that organization when they make a bad call that costs you the game.

The "players" can go home and just stay there.

[Duke Newcombe]

126. Three words: So. Be. It.

When they get all het up at THEIR politician and DCC chairs and leaders, then _maybe_ I would care.

If they wish to take their marbles and go elsewhere, McCain would certainly welcome them--however, when he ultimately has to answer to his neocon handlers and tasksmasters after becoming POTUS, our "disenfranchised" FL Democrats will come around.

They'll get over it when the swelling goes down.

Duke

[anigbrowl]

85. It also matters who's trying to engineer and channel that anger

And it's worth considering that voters in numerous other states may not feel happy about being held camptive by Florida. This whole thing is a setup to give the DLC control of the national party in my opinion.

[rox63]

13. The state Dem party and legislators disenfranchised them by breaking the rules

They should be protesting in front of the FL State Capital and the FL Dem Party HQ.

[paulk]

24. I'm not making a partisan argument

I'm saying that if the DNC disenfranchises those 2 states we will lose Florida for sure this November and possibly Michigan.

Howard Dean has completely mishandled this whole thing.

[madfloridian]

31. If Floridians choose to vote GOP...effing let them. Okay?

Enough of the threats.

[nashville_brook]

34. this just goes to show that you're really not on the side of a greater Dem victory

you just want your side of the argument to win and the other to be humiliated. i'm sorry, but that's primitive behavior and we ought to demand better of our leaders.

i surely don't want Florida to go red in November. Guess that's fine with you as long as DNC RULES RIGHT OR WRONG.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

80. Their democratic congressmen protect the republican congressmen anyway

Debbie Wasserman Shultz is supposed to be helping get DEMS elected to
congress but wouldn't endorse Dems because they might unseat her
GOP friends.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

77. Florida Democrats reject second primary vote | World news ...

Florida Democrats reject second primary vote | World news ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/18/uselections2008.hillaryclinton

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

82. Florida will just screw up the election regardless - its a GOP machine state

lost cause.

[Poll_Blind]

7. No es bueno. n/t

PB

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. Deja vu?

[earthside]

11. Clintonite or Democrat?

It increasingly appears that you have to chose one or the other.

[madfloridian]

14. Exactly...

They have had the party at their disposal all through the 90s.

Terry McAuliffe did their bidding.

Now when the party is growing outside of DC and Dean is building up the infrastructure everywhere....they are not getting their way.

[DemVet]

20. Hmmm......

I don't think you want a another political party based around the Clintons, do you?

Obama, if he is the Democratic Nominee, could really forget about winning then.

[madfloridian]

29. I have no clue what you are saying.

Nor do I especially care.

[ZinZen]

74. MF you can lay out all the facts

for the Clintonites (especially the "Squeaky Fromme" like base), and their response will be to insert their fingers into their ears yelling LA LA LA! as loud as they can. Facts interrupt their fantasy world that Hillary will rule, angels will come down to earth, and peace will come to the middle east.

I know you try very hard though. The facts are on your side.

[PassingFair]

100. Actually, I think they say...

"Blah, blah, blah"

"I don't believe what you say".


The are MASTERDEBATORS!

[Cassandra]

102. Does the DLC really think they could start a third party...

and get enough support without the grassroots?

[madfloridian]

15. MI folks, tell me about those "uncommitteds"...I heard only a few went to Obama

What's going on.

[PassingFair]

101. We choose up delegates on Saturday....

District Convention....


Uncommitteds sat on one side of the room (BIG CROWD)
Hillaristas on the other (SMALL GROUP)

Our uncommitted delegate candidates all stood and
made speeches ALL of the hopefuls pledged to support
Obama. I believe that they will.

[flpoljunkie]

16. Thankfully, Dr. Dean does not appear to be intimidated by the Clintonistas.

[DemVet]

17. Howard Dean should resign.

It's that simple.

The FL and MI fiascos are his doing.

The repubs played him for a fool. There is no way out of this situation without Howard Dean making himself look foolish.

[madfloridian]

19. He's not the one looking bad right now. Hillary looks pathetic.

.

[Poll_Blind]

21. You're full of it, and you know it. Don't try to pass that bullshit off as something...

...even remotely resembling the truth.

PB

[autorank]

22. Dean's only mistake was not firing the Florida Dem Chair

She was caught taking $3-4 thousand a month from the top Republican firm in the state - BEFORE THIS CRISIS EMERGED. She gave her son money for an obscure race in 2006 but not a dime to the 6=7 progressives who were self funding their campaigns for the House that year. She allowed her pals in the legislature to let this bill pass without a fight regarding the additional items for primaries. It was simply an election reform bill.

The FDC, Clinton supporters, and the Dems in the legislature that were complicit in this are the ones who should go.

[nashville_brook]

42. if Dean had fired the chair way back then, and brokered a solution, we would not be in this

mess now. Why didn't he take action then? Instead of targeting the leadership for punishment, all of Florida Democrats have been painted as "rule-breakers" and not deserving of a voice in the primary (unless we lick up Clinton's alligator tears).

Just look at what this mess has done to the discourse on this board, and the language that is in play. "Lines drawn in the sand," etc -- this has pitted Dem against Dem.

The person in charge of Democratic leadership needs to come out and address this. And it would have been so much easier in '07 when it wasn't at critical mass. Since the Gingrich Congress we'd had a steady diet of "you on your side, and me on mine" between Dems and Repubs and it's gotten us nowhere. Now we have it within our very own party and it's killing us.

It's time for solutions. The bickering must stop.

[autorank]

44. I'm surprised he wasn't bold.

The Chair is a solid Clinton supporter, period. He may have had pressure on that. I would have
thought he'd just do it and get it over with.

You have a great point.

The Chair has her supporters. Imagine, taking a monthly retainer on top of a 100% commitment to the Florida Democratic Party Chairperson job. That stinks.

Here's information on Thurman, the Chair and her Republican moonlighting:

Collins: Citizen Russell Interviews Karen Thurman July 19, 2007
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00271.htm

and a general article on how badly FDP treats proressives

M. Collins: Florida Citizens Versus Party Insiders July 17, 2007
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00219.htm


:hi:

[suzie]

55. Just curious, but are there Obama supporters

within any of the top levels of the Florida Party?

My initial impression upon hearing that Florida had not made alternative arrangements for a caucus, mail in vote, whatever, was they the leaders wanted to hand the nomination to Clinton early on.

[autorank]

63. My impression too but Madfloridian would be the better source.

There was fear that mail in balloting would hurt Democrats if it became too widespread. So they didn't go for that. Dean made a number of offers for alternatives. Caucuses are better, it was argued, since you get general election volunteers. If they'd done that in FL, they would have had DNC money as Dean promised and a boat load of volunteers. But they chose not to and Nelson and Hastings got pious with their voter rights business. There was no appetite for compromise given Deans offer, imho.

[HooptieWagon]

120. Fl Party leadership is solidly DLC/Clinton.

Obama support only exists at grass-roots level. He hasn't campaigned or organized here, so the DLCers pretty much control the microphone. Even so, many dems are aware of the FDP's culpability and responsibility of the primary fiasco - and the Dean brand is still pretty solid. Regardless of what happened in the primary or who the nominee is, I doubt that FL would go blue in the GE... it didn't in '04, and just elected another GOP Governor and Cabinet excepting Treasurer. GOP continues to be well organized, and FDP leaders continue to concentrate on keeping their spot at the feeding trough rather than building the Party at local level. Some counties have no local Dem organization. Until Party leaders can be pried from power I don't see the situation improving.

[dionysus]

38. as always, dead wrong...

Dr. Dean has the cure for the DLC cancer you so vigorously support...

[smiley_glad_hands]

81. More like the repugs are playing you for a fool, lol. eom

[autorank]

18. This is one every activist should read. Superb!!! k*r

The Florida Primary date was attached to a very good election reform billing Florida, the bill that made optical scan voting uniform throughout the state. The Republicans proposed it but there were Democrats who did so also, knowing full well what would happen. The Republican Party took issue with this and somehow they settled it. But now the nihilists from the Clinton camp are rallying the forces of decay based on the very worst tactics and the boldest lies.

I'm not surprised at this. This is a formula for Republican victory. I see this as the end of the DC Democratic establishment and any influence the DLC has. The Clintons need to know that they have generated real truth and illumination - they'll do anything to win, anything to defeat Obama in the primaries and, by extension, the general election. There will be a backlash and this nonsense will be exposed.

Outstanding post.

[rudy23]

23. Is the whole reason Hillary's keeping this up, to oust Dean, and help the DLC?

Maybe if they can get Harold Ford in there like they've always wanted to, they can keep a lot of power without winning the White House. Just throwing that out there.

[madfloridian]

25. Part of it. They don't like or use the 50 state plan

They set up their own shadow DNC for the campaign, their own database, etc.

They would like the power concentrated.

Here's a good article from 2003

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030217/greider

[nashville_brook]

43. Good point -- they've been aching to get the DNC back for quite some time.

Maybe that's why Dean hoped this would all go away after January. This is surely hurting him politically.

[nashville_brook]

26. this is why we needed to address this way back when... hate to say it, but I TOLD YOU SO!

way back before this was written in stone, i argued for the DNC and Florida to sit down and resolve this as a SOLEMN matter of democracy. But your position, madfloridian, was "DNC RULES: right or wrong."

The problem with that is, it didn't solve the problem, now did it. Instead of a brokered solution we have a gaping (loop)hole where democracy used to be -- just big enough for Clinton to slither into.

As it stands now we have an unfair vote where Dems were turned away from the polls here in Orlando, told that "their vote wouldn't count anyway." We had no campaigning except for the rich and richer who participated in fundraisers. Arguably, Clinton's name recognition won the day, and we stand poised to be beaten into accepting this rigged vote. We might as well have been voting for Coke or Cheerwine.

This could have all been avoided if the DNC would have sat down with Florida Dems and come to a reasonable solution. DNC RIGHT OR WRONG got us into this mess. Are we to imagine that same blind authoritarianism is now going to save us?

Well, lets hope so -- but I'm afraid that train has already left the station.

[madfloridian]

28. That is so not true. My position was my state used dirty tactics...

of intimidation toward Dean and the DNC. The tactics worked on you, didn't they.

[nashville_brook]

30. all your hysterical replies to my threads asking for a pre-primary solution: calling me a "liar"

and all kinds of other fun names -- and now you think you can deny that. wow.

[madfloridian]

32. Good by

again.

[nashville_brook]

37. can't/won't admit that this is all about "being right" and not about

doing the right thing for our people. see, that's what's wrong with authoritarianism. it lands you in corners where all you can do is stick your fingers in your ears and say "la la la, I can't hear you."

this should have never come to this. this should have never been a fight. it should have never spawned lawsuits. we are supposed to be on the "same team." Dean supposedly had a 50-State Strategy, not a 48-State Mish Mash of Sorta Democracy.

[smiley_glad_hands]

84. Doing the right thing would be not to cheat and follow the rules. eom

[Duke Newcombe]

87. It should have never come to this...FL DCC should have Followed. F&^king. Rules!!

Instead of acting like they are above coordinating with their Democratic brothers and sisters. After all, we're all in this together, right? :sarcasm:

Duke

[Elidor]

51. Oh, yeah, it's all Dean's fault. Never the Florida Democratic party leaders

Don't look now, but your agenda is showing.

[SoCalDem]

33. I don't recall this much effort on her part for Gore in '00...do YOU?

I guess getting the White House wasn't that "important" back then.:cry:

[madfloridian]

47. Now that you mention it, I recall no effort.

I recall since then reading how the DLC folks were saying Gore lost for going so populist near the end.

[rodeodance]

35. Yes, Dean--the obama backer should resign.

[AllexxisF1]

36. Bullshit.

Dean has been nothing but a Godsend since he took the mantle of the party. He wanted a 50 state strategy and the DLC Clintonites slammed him for it and He won it for us in the fall of 2006.

He stood up to Florida and Michigan and made a line in the sand, they stepped over it and he kept his word.


Dean is the new Democratic party a party which finally found its roots again.

It's people like you that need to leave the party or wake up to the progressive movement.

[madfloridian]

39. I think...

I am very glad I could not see the comment before yours. :-)

But I do like yours for sure.

[paulk]

40. "It's people like you that need to leave the party"

heck, why not?

Since you're already willing to throw FL and MI under the bus, why not just throw out every body who's not a "progressive"?

What stupid shit.

[PassingFair]

104. If you're not progressive, what are you?

REGRESSIVE or PASSIVE?

[paulk]

123. on the political compass

foreign policy/economy -2.25
social values -4.75

lower left quadrant = liberal libertarian.

I would describe myself as a pragamatic moderate to liberal.

Or perhaps "realist" covers it best.

I am not a progressive in the sense that the left uses the term.

[JAbuchan08]

108. That's frankly a pretty good idea.

you're not doing us any good in the party, I doubt you could cause us any more trouble outside of the part.

The problem is the DLC needs the Democratic brand, they get to associate themselves with Democratic principles without actually standing up for any of them. They get a lot of votes via brand loyalty (like the Clinton's). I see it everyday, people here urging to vote in favor of "party unity." It's the same BS the Republicans are always pushing "hey, we may be wrong, but the country should unify behind us"

[paulk]

125. who is "us"?

[nashville_brook]

41. you're both wrong. This is a big misstep on Dean's part. Should he step down? No.

But he should have seen that this was a major error and attempted worked toward finding a solution instead of "drawing a line in the sand." Doing so alienated Florida Dems, and the first job of a leader is to keep everyone on the same team.

Dean now needs to find a solution that doesn't unfairly give Hillary an advantage and doesn't appear to be cutting Florida entirely. It's a much more difficult course of action he has to take now, but he has to do something. Stepping down would only make matters worse.

[rodeodance]

50. The delay works to obama's advantage and he knows that.

[sybylla]

59. A misstep to follow the rules? Like hell.

What Michigan and Florida Dems don't realize (and their leadership won't tell them) is that the committee will seat their delegates after the nominee is chosen - after the whole thing has been decided. There's no way the rules committee and credentials committee will agree to do it before based on sham primaries.

So if Hillary continues to fight a losing battle all the way to the convention in August, the Michigan and Florida delegates will probably not be seated. But you don't see Howard Dean out there blaming HRC for "disenfranchising" Florida and Michigan delegates by staying in the race, do ya. Cuz that would be just as ridiculous as what Hillary and her supporters are claiming in Michigan and Florida.

[PassingFair]

105. He DID work toward a solution.

Florida AND Michigan thumbed their noses at
all attempts.

They didn't CARE!

Like children throwing temper-tantrums.

[1trackmindGOP]

60. You mean the referee that gets in your way with RULES

Get over it shyster...there are rules in every game and everyone was informed from the beginning...I would hate to play poker with you rule benders...I could never win since you make them up based on the hand you have dealt.

[thoughtcrime1984]

45. Might as well destroy the Party since she won't be President

F'ing Veruca Salt.

[Diane R]

46. That comment was so good that I'll say it again, "Destroy the party if she can't be president."

[newmajority]

48. Isn't that what the DLC has been doing all along?

Destroying the Democratic party is their one and only objective.

[quantass]

49. Frightening how many IGNORANT or BRAINWASHED people there are out there!!

[RufusTFirefly]

52. What is Hillary hoping for? 72 virgins??

Perhaps she truly believes she's fighting for a righteous cause (herself), but Hillary Clinton seems bent on a kind of political suicide bombing. Not content to simply destroy her own career, she is determined to "obliterate" the Democratic Party along with her. And perhaps the whole country as well.

[seafan]

66. No, but she'd settle for 72 Virginias. n/t

[defendandprotect]

129. Funny ... and this kind of reminds me of the Cheny/Bush reaction to recounts . . .

they simply went ahead and picked their cabinet members and announced them ---
and ignored anything else going on!!!

The steal was on the fix was in --- and off they went!

[no1dolo]

53. What won't she try to win!

She truly doesn't care about anyone other than herself. Doesn't she realize that she is not just doing this to the party. She is messing with people's lives! She screws up Obama (the only one on track for winning the nomination at this time) and therefore screws up our chance of having a Democrat in the White House. I swear...this country is "going to Hell in a hand-basket"!

[no1dolo]

57. Going to Hell in a hand basket!

Is anyone keeping up with the Political Headlines on the Huffington Post Political Page?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/

[democracy1st]

54. K & R

the Clintons are Repubs

[otohara]

56. She's Out To Destroy

the voting process!

Her signature counts for nothing - why did she agree to follow the rules in the first place. All that hooey about trusting the people.


stop the count, stop the count. break the rules, break the rules.

[1trackmindGOP]

58. She is showing her true colors and its not Blue!

She is a freaking disgrace to the party...she should join the Republicans since she chooses to act just like them...good riddance Hill

[madfloridian]

61. OMG...more rallies more websites, more threats and more pressure

I am getting more disgusted as this movement to pressure the party continues. These are Hillary oriented people refusing to play by the rules that Hillary once accepted herself and that everyone in the party lives by.

I think she doesn't care if it breaks the party.

I hope the party leaders stand up for what is right.

If they give in it will destroy the party. This is not just the Clinton's party, it belongs to all of us.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-levitt/disenfranchised-florida-v_b_98458.html

"Buoyed by the results in Pennsylvania, bus loads of Floridians -- mostly backers of Sen. Hillary Clinton -- will head to Washington for an April 30th rally before the Democratic National Committee's headquarters. The group is looking to confront party leaders and argue that the Sunshine State's disqualified January primary results should be counted. They are asking that all 2ll Florida delegates be seated at the August convention in Denver, a decision that would help in the delegate-numbers-game for the New York senator.

'How dare they not count our 1,749,000 votes, says Linda Bird, a Fort Lauderdale realtor and Democratic activist, who adds, " Do they want a fight for our rights at the convention in Denver?"

Hannigan said he had a difficult time getting information from the DNC and had to threaten to go to the American Civil Liberties Union to get data from the national party, including a membership list of the party's Credentials Committee, which he said should be available to the public, "not shrouded in secrecy."

The League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC), headquartered in Washington, a widely respected Hispanic civil rights organization, has announced that it was so impressed with the effort by FDR to recognize Florida's vote, it volunteered to fund the buses, food and hotels for the protest in D.C.

State Coordinator for LULAC Jose Fernandez, of Orlando, said that independents as well as adherents of both parties -- "anyone who believes that their voting is being violated" -- are welcome on the bus trip.

"That could backfire," one unaffiliated Superdelegate explained. "The DNC's action is playing right into the hands of the Republicans." He said that voters are angry and may stay away from the polls in November. Florida--the fourth largest state in the nation and the most sought after "swing state" -- has 27 electoral votes. Republican strategists have been saying quietly that the delegate controversy has been a blessing for their nominee-in-waiting Sen. John McCain and would likely be a campaign issue for the GOP in November. "Vote the GOP -- We care about your votes!"

[PassingFair]

107. They should check their I.D.'s. Make sure that THESE GUYS

...are not on the bus!

[Politicalboi]

62. I hope this

Blows up in her face. I hope the SD's see this and go to Obama's side real soon. Hillary like her husband cheats. We don't need them anymore.

[Donkeykick]

64. What's the big deal?

There is nothing wrong with wanting Florida and Michigan to count. :shrug:

[Coexist]

65. is there a rally in Tampa?

I'll crash it.

[Poll_Blind]

67. Seriously, does this construe an attack on the Democratic party, period?

  Because the rules are the damned rules. If she's trying to whip up some bullshit- I mean, what the fuck? Is this the fruitcake times where anyone (read: Hillary) can just take a shit on the rules and nobody does anything?

  This is a different matter than just disagreeing.

What is her game and where is she steering this?

  Because when people talk about her taking down the party with her, this looks like the first, uncontrovertable move to do just that. Seriously.

PB

[guruoo]

70. IMO, Hillary's duty to try, Obama's duty to prevent. n/t

[madfloridian]

71. You do know she accepted the rules at first? Her campaign leader voted for them?

Harold Ickes and others who supported here voted for the rules back in 2005.

She said the two states did not matter until she needed the votes.

Video and partial transcript.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1976

[guruoo]

72. Do you know where I can find a copy of the document that Hillary signed

agreeing to this? Please understand that I'm not questioning your word, madfloridian.
It's just that I have yet to see an actual copy of this much-heralded, signed agreement.

[madfloridian]

89. I found this on her website from Sept 1, 2007.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3134

Clinton Campaign Statement on the Four State Pledge
The following is a statement by Clinton Campaign Manager Patti Solis Doyle.

"We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process.

And we believe the DNC’s rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role.

Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."

If you watched the video, Russert left no doubt she was ok with the rules. Then he used her later statement when she needed the delegates. Here's the link to the archives from Feb. You can look it up yourself.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/archive/

Sorry you don't trust me or MTP

[Duke Newcombe]

93. Cue the sound of crickets... eom.

Duke

[guruoo]

111. I don't trust Russert.

I just want to one, go over the specific terms of the agreement, and two, to be able
to honestly say that 'Ive seen the signed agreement'.

However, IMHO, even if her campaign followed through on the web site statement, and did sign on to the agreement,
Hillary still has a right to lobby for a change in the terms, just as Obama has a right to lobby against such a change.
Also, IMO, if one has a problem with the agreement being changed, then they should blame the authority
that approved these change(s) not the person, or persons who lobbied for it.

[Irishonly]

73. It's Depressing

I am still going to vote democratic in November but at this point if it is Senator Clinton is the nominee I will not only have to hold my nose but may have to drink a couple bottles of wine and I don't drink:cry:

[smiley_glad_hands]

86. Our party finally gets a leader with a clue and Hill has to bash him for enforcing the rules. eom

[Scooter24]

90. Why not just void the vote counts

and award both Obama and Clinton the delegates of Michigan and Florida 50/50? This way they still get to be seated and neither side can claim victory.

[grantcart]

91. so what do the average Floridians think about this?

[AtomicKitten]

92. It sounds like a pressure cooker there in Florida.

Please reassure us and tell us you and your husband aren't the only sane people in the state. Oy.

[madfloridian]

94. It would settle down if Clinton would stop pushing things.

People are confused because the media here is not telling the truth. My journals have been shared, but that does not reach many.

It is pretty volatile among Democrats.

I blame Hillary for it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

95. The Repub. Governor (Crist) is the one who's really starting it up....

and we don't really need someone else to get us riled up.

I know you - being an Obama supporter - wouild rather not see the Florida voters get a chance to have their voices heard. But most people here would like to see us have a chance (most of the Obama supporters I know also feel that way).

It will damage the Dem Party AND Obama not to include these votes.

[madfloridian]

113. Hey, I will not let you get away with lying.

Our Democrats were in on it from the beginning.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in Denver.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

[kerry-is-my-prez]

118. YOU are the one who is blaming it all on Hillary - I don't see one link referring to her.

So who is not being truthful?

We don't need Hillary to be stirring us up - most people here are angry....

[madfloridian]

124. I blame it on the FL Democrats.....

most of the ones involved are Clinton surrogates and superdelegates.

So tell me what I am supposed to think?

[Califooyah Operative]

96. madfloridian, Thank You For Keep Us Up To Date! nt

[SeaLyons]

99. Good for Hillary

[madrchsod]

103. it is a balant attempt to overthrow the dnc by the dlc

this battle she is waging is for the control of the party so she will have absolute control of the party. it is clear she is willing to destroy the party if she does`t get her way in florida and michigan. it is clear if elected she will not listen to the moderates and progressives in our party and it is clear that any dissent or even questioning of her policies will be not tolerated.

we as a party and a nation can not afford nor tolerate another 4-8 years of absolute rule. we are living with the effects of it this very second..

[moondust]

106. Let them start their own fucking party.

With their own fucking rules that don't apply to them.

[Sam Ervin jret]

109. let her. She'll not only lose the election, she'll lose any future in the party and any help with

fundraising to wipe out her mounting debt.

Are the Clintons that self destrctive?

[MadHound]

112. Fuck Florida,

Florida Dems went along with the 'Pugs to push up their primary date, against DNC rules, and now call foul? Fuck 'em. Hell, Florida's had eight years to get their election process right and they still haven't done a damn thing, and it has gotten worse instead. The DNC had better stick by its ruling and not seat FL or MI, especially if they seat them for Hillary. Otherwise myself and thousands of others will leave the party and go elsewhere.

[paulk]

114. you've been threatening to leave the party

the entire six years I've been posting here.

[MadHound]

115. Yep, pretty much been hanging by a thread

Easy enough to break that tie, and if the DNC caves to Hillary and seats these delegates, yep, I'm done. Any last shreds of the party I once knew and loved will have simply vanished. I won't stick around for an undemocratic Democratic party.

[RiverStone]

116. Geez, all this crazy negativity is the pukes wet dream n/t

[Yurovsky]

117. I doubt she'll be spending much time in Riviera Beach ...

or Liberty City. She'll probably stay in comfy pro-Clinton locales. Black folks are not going to put up with her shit.

[defendandprotect]

127. Right, this is a war by HRC/DLC vs the DNC . . . vs Dean . . .

vs the beginning of the ending of corporate control over the party ---

[Bensthename]

128. Sorry Hillary you will not blow Obama's chances in Nov. for your '12 run..

Please leave Hillary. You have out stayed your welcome.