The audacity of Hillary Clinton continuing

[bigtree]

THE audacity of those voters who cast their ballots for Hillary Clinton -- especially those voters in Pennsylvania who upset the party's assumed nominee!

Don't they know it's over? Why do they insist on hurting the party by denying Barack Obama enough support to win the nomination by votes cast alone?

And, why do they keep voting for his rival? Can't they see that they're just splitting the party?

Out of the tens of millions of votes cast between the candidates (I'm guessing 27 million or so), there's a difference of about 500,000 votes in favor of Obama. Those 13 million or so voters who cast their ballot for Hillary Clinton -- and the millions more threatening ahead -- need to get in line and stop encouraging and enabling her to continue. Whatever need or concern that they've invested in Hillary Clinton is now just dragging our party down. They need to just let those go, for the good of the party.

After all, there will certainly be some sort of appeal from Barack Obama and his supporters to those voters who trust and respect Hillary Clinton. We'll eventually see a real attempt by Obama to hash out the differences those millions of voters have with his own agenda for the economy, for health-care, for our military and foreign policy. It's coming. Why can't they just be quiet and wait? It's all better than McCain, so, what do they have to complain about anyway?

The worst are those polls they keep showing with Hillary Clinton doing better in the head-to-heads against McCain. Don't those folks who are supporting her with their votes realize how bad that makes the assumed nominee look?

The Obama camp is enabling this along with their own behavior, as well. What they should do is come out now and tell those Clinton voters, past and upcoming, that their message has been received, loud and clear, but, the assumed nominee and his supporters aren't listening anymore.

Better yet, he shouldn't even bother to show up in the upcoming states to ask for their votes. That'll show those folks who are determined to vote against him and deny him his early ascension.

Don't those voters in states like Indiana and Kentucky know Barack Obama's already won this thing? And why is Hillary Clinton listening to them?


by request: :sarcasm:

[BlooInBloo]

1. I for one Obama supporter hopes Clinton keeps going.

[bigtree]

4. for all the best reasons

of course

[BlooInBloo]

6. Why do my reasons have to do with it? I simply am not doing what you described in your OP.

[kenny blankenship]

10. I like knowing that as she continues to stab at our nominee she burns her bridges 4ever

and both Clintons will fade further into oblivion faster after 2008.

[bigtree]

17. your nominee? I know.

Why can't her supporters see that he's already won without them actually nominating him with their votes? He's ascending. Can't they SEE that??

[kenny blankenship]

22. Yes OUR nominee. In your heart you know it to be true.

Clinton is already finished, the only question is how much damage she will do the Democratic Party before she withdraws.

[bigtree]

25. the party looks fine

I'm not excusing Barack Obama in that equation though. Those voters who supported Hillary Clinton at the polls, and those who intend to vote in the upcoming contests, represent almost half of the Democrats who've voted between these candidates. It's not just Obama and the interests of his supporters who is vulnerable in this race. I think that if Clinton was truly 'finished' Obama would stop campaigning today. How much damage will he do to the wing of the party the Clinton supporters represent by continuing his own increasingly negative campaign?

[kenny blankenship]

27. At this point, after Wisconsin, you are working for McCain. But the GOOD NEWS is

that you can stop whenever you decide you like Democrats more than Republicans.

Obama wasn't my choice. But he became the Democratic choice and I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with people trying to tear him down just because he succeeded where they failed. It's too late for anyone else to win it, and it's ALWAYS too late for Party-wrecking spoilers.

[bigtree]

32. you really think that you can get 11 million Democrats to just capitulate to Obama?

Those voters are how he wins against McCain if he wins the nomination. He won't get their votes by taking them for granted. And, they aren't subject to your petty, ignorant ridicule. These voters don't have to choose Obama. He needs to earn their votes. Slandering me here as some republican enabler for supporting my candidate from behind your computer won't change any of that.

[kenny blankenship]

34. keep it up, McCain worker. You'll get tired soon enough.

[bigtree]

37. Why don't you keep berating me?

That'll eventually make me support Obama. That's how it's done. Intimidation and ridicule.

'Hope and unity'.

[Mezzo]

53. or, your guy should keep his word and finish his first senate term, like he said he would.

[Saturday]

2. May I add this for you?

:sarcasm: Recommended.

[bigtree]

3. If you must

:hi:

[BootinUp]

5. Audacity, Gumption, AND Gall

Yep, :)

[Armstead]

44. I agree with you on the Gall

I save "gumption" for people who truly are victims who overcome odds.

[BootinUp]

50. My mother always used all three back to back when she was

fired up. lol.

Can't say I ever read the definition for Gumption.

[Armstead]

78. Courtesy of Dictionary.com

It's probably a matter of interpretation whether it applies in this case. :)


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
gump·tion
–noun Informal.
1. initiative; aggressiveness; resourcefulness: With his gumption he'll make a success of himself.
2. courage; spunk; guts: It takes gumption to quit a high-paying job.
3. common sense; shrewdness.



© 2008 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
gump·tion
n. Informal

1. Boldness of enterprise; initiative or aggressiveness.
2. Guts; spunk.
3. Common sense.





(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
gumption
1719, Scottish, "common sense, shrewdness," also "drive, initiative," possibly connected with M.E. gome "attention, heed," from O.N. gaumr "heed." Originally "common sense, shrewdness," sense of "initiative" is first recorded 1812.

[breakaleg]

7. She can't win. Given that, she is causing more trouble than her campaign is worth.

[NJmaverick]

8. It's the destructive actions and words of the Clintons that are hurting the party

not the voters

[bigtree]

9. I'm not hurt

who do you think the 'party' is, anyway?

[NJmaverick]

12. Safe to say, it's not you

The party is made up of all the Democrats. It's the ones that want to win the White House and believe in the Democrat party's ideals. It's the ones that put the needs of the many over the needs of the one (Hillary in this case).


Hillary has ZERO chance of winning. If she cared about the party, she would have run a more respectful and positive campaign. She doesn't care about the party though, she only cares about herself and her desire to be President. So she has done more damage to the Dems and their chances than even Karl Rove has done.

[bigtree]

14. she obviously cares about those who support her

. . . and they obviously think she's run as respectful a campaign as Obama. Yet there are still folks who speak as if the 'harm' inflicted on their candidate was the only blow thrown and landed in this campaign. Myopic. The Obama campaign hasn't shied away from divisive attacks on the Clinton campaign. They and their supporters just don't seem to regard the Clinton voters as important enough to care.

[NJmaverick]

What's obvious is that she WANTS to be president

Beyond that, she doesn't seem to have any other passions. If she cared about her supporters, she wouldn't have squandered her donations on luxuary items for her campaign staff, or over paid for Mr. Penn.

As for you claim that "they obviously think she's run a respectful campaign", flies in the face of exit polls that found 2/3rds of the voters felt Hillary was responsible for the negative tone

[bigtree]

29. and Obama? He's just as ambitious and just as self-concerned

Two career pols.

And, the votes belie the exit polls. They always do.

[NJmaverick]

58. While that is easy to say, your statement can not be backed up by example

While Hillary has engaged in the type of vile politics, that even McCain couldn't stomach.

[bigtree]

65. the 'politics' has been from the hyperbole from his supporters and his handlers

which you are encouraging me to follow. I happen to think that the 'controversies' in this race are contrived political bullshit. I can make up my own hateful, desperate rhetoric about how Obama is destroying all I hold dear, but I think it's ridiculous to parse these candidate's words and make every disagreement into some capital offense. I'll leave the strained expressions of outrage to the champs.

[NJmaverick]

67. Hillary's endorsement of McCain, her throwing Gore and Kerry under a bus

Hillary's claims that Obama is elitist and out of touch. Her ads featuring OBL. There is no need to engage in hyperbole, when Hillary's own actions say it all

[bigtree]

75. like I said . . .

[emilyg]

55. The "party" is fine.

[NJmaverick]

68. Not according to all the polls showing McCain gaining

[blm]

11. But do those voters KNOW that corpmedia has been LYING to them about HRC's ability to win?

No - most do NOT know.

The corpmedia MANUFACTURED the idea that HRC can still win and you think it is OK for them to take advantage of casual voters unaware of the math facts as they exist.

[bigtree]

15. it's our uneducation

we're just too dumb to do the math.

[blm]

24. Dems like you invested your loyalty. Most CASUAL Dem voters are a different story.

Did you EVER consider yourself a voter who only casually pays attention to the race?

[wileedog]

13. Anyone hear the sound of moving goalposts?

She has lost the pledged delegate vote.

She has lost popular vote (not that its accurate anyway without caucus states)

She has won less states.

These three things will not change just because its vital that everyone's voice in Guam be heard.

Her only path to victory is a party wrenching Superdelegate revolt against the 3 things above.

Gee, why would any think a candidate who truly cared about putting a Dem in the White House this November would stop utterly wasting everyone's time, money and political capital continuing to wage a scorched earth war the was decided a month ago?

[bigtree]

16. why are those voters wasting our time urging her to continue?

and why is she listening to them?

[wileedog]

31. Because most of those voters beleive the MSM claptrap

that this is still a 'viable' and 'close' race.

Why she is listening to them is that she has zero problem ripping apart the party with a SD overturn of the vote because the worse possible scenario for her is an 8 year Obama Presidency.

[Occam Bandage]

18. Strike "audacity," replace with "stupidity" -ed.

[bigtree]

21. yup. uneducated.

and stupid, those voters waiting to cast their ballot for Clinton. Why won't they just fall in line behind Obama? And why is Clinton paying any attention to them?

[Occam Bandage]

23. If exit polls are to be believed, yes.

[bigtree]

26. arrogant and ignorant

Not a very smart position for a campaign to take. I'd love to hear your candidate echo that. Follow me in my bigotry, you say, and vote for my choice of candidate who reflects my values and ideals.

[Occam Bandage]

28. Agreed, but realistically the arrogant and ignorant are all who are left in her camp, so obviously

she's going to continue courting them.

[bigtree]

35. yep. why don't they just abandon their hopes and concerns and just accept he's won?

. . . even though though he didn't manage that with their actual votes yet. It's all over except for their say so. Who cares what they think? Who cares about their concerns? Obama's got all he needs without them.

Maybe Obama should just come right out and call them arrogant and ignorant for expecting their vote to mean something in this primary. That's really what they're waiting in their state to hear from the candidate.

[Occam Bandage]

36. Probably because they don't understand math. Fortunately, they're in the minority.

[bigtree]

39. they only have to count to one

Their own vote. That's what's important.

You keep telling them that the interests of your slim majority is more important than their one vote.

[Occam Bandage]

40. Yep. Too bad nominees are chosen on "delegates," and not "bravely ignorant Clinton supporters."

[bigtree]

43. those brave, 'ignorant' Clinton voters

where would Obama be without them?

[Occam Bandage]

45. Same place he is now:

the presumptive nominee.

[bigtree]

48. I didn't realize the general campaign was over.

stupid of me to have missed that.

[Occam Bandage]

49. Well, like I said, we don't expect Clinton supporters to understand math.

[bigtree]

51. let me try some

about 27 million votes between the candidates


about 13 million for Clinton

about 14 million for Obama


What does either candidate have to do to carry the bulk of those 27 million votes from our Democratic primary into the general election?

Intimidation? Ridicule?

[Occam Bandage]

52. Time heals all wounds.

Unfortunately, Ms. Clinton seems insistent on staying in the race. Every day she doesn't step down is a day the Democrats won't have to reconcile.

[bigtree]

54. her supporters aren't sheep

How do you know what their reaction will be if she's forced out now by the nattering of the partisans? The race is historically close. What do you really know about the mood of her supporters for reconciliation. The polls show that her supporters haven't warmed to Obama in any major way. That's not going to be helped by a bum's rush.

[Occam Bandage]

88. No. They're mostly Democrats, though. And the longer this race goes,

the less likely it is that the loser's supporters will go over to the winner's side.

[bigtree]

92. cut it off now, before the rest of the voters have weighed in

. . . and you could alienate a sizable portion of the voters he needs in the general to give him their full support. Better to avoid the resentment that would surely come from the feeling that the losing candidate was forced out of the race in any way by allowing the election to run it's course and letting the supporters in the upcoming states have their way. They don't seem to be complaining, overall, I think.

[Occam Bandage]

94. That is traditionally what happens in primaries once the challenger can no longer win.

It gets "cut off," because the longer this goes, the deeper the divisions get, and the less likely it is that the party will come together afterwards.

[bigtree]

97. this isn't just any campaign. I've never seen one this close

have you?

[Occam Bandage]

101. This is the closest, most bitter campaign in decades, if not ever. Its length

and its vitriol are extraordinarily damaging to the party. Artificially extending it is not exactly going to make that better.

[Phillycat]

59. You mean the exit polls in PA that said post-graduates went for Clinton

by a big margin? Those exit polls?

Edited to add link and graph. I'll just sit back and wait for your apology here. I'm sure it's coming:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#PADEM

Vote by Education Clinton Obama
No High School (5%) N/A N/A
H.S. Graduate (23%) 64% 36%
Some College (25%) 53% 47%
College Grad (21%) 49% 51%
Postgraduate (27%) 53% 47%

[Occam Bandage]

69. Why apologize? The uneducated broke for Clinton 2-1. The fact

that postgrads went Clinton 53-47 doesn't change that.

[Phillycat]

73. Oh, so you're just cherry-picking the (23% of votes) figures you want to use?

That must be that fancy new math Obama supporters keep talking about.

[Occam Bandage]

74. I'm not the one who brought those voters up, dear.

[Phillycat]

76. WTF are you talking about? You said replace "audacity" with "stupidity"

and made the claim that Hillary voters are uneducated. I responded with, you know, ACTUAL FACTS, to show that both less educated and more educated voters went for Hillary in PA, and higher numbers with post-graduate degrees, you said so what, because less educated people went for her 2-1, I pointed out that that only represents 23% of voters, and you said I brought them up? You're talking out of your ass.

[Occam Bandage]

85. I made no such claim. I said that Hillary staying in was not "audacity," but rather "stupidity."

The first mention of the uneducated vote was not my own.

[Bake]

79. So Occam, I'll match educational credentials with you if you'd like.

I may be many things, but uneducated isn't one of them. And I'm a Hillary supporter. Which I guess, to hear the Obots tell it, means that I am a racist ...

Time heals all wounds? Yeah, keep taking us for granted (or better yet, insulting us), and your candidate will be little more than a footnote in history.

Bake

[bigtree]

81. OB is insulting many Obama supporters in his prejudice about voter's educational experience

. . . absolutely clueless as to what makes smart people smart and the dumb ones dumb . . . and how to tell the difference between the two. The assumption here is, if you support Clinton you must be stupid, but if you support Obama you're sufficiently educated. If this was Obama's platform we'd see his own 'uneducated' base collapse.

[Occam Bandage]

87. Prejudice? I'm just going off the same exit polls you did. Clinton is attractive to the stupidest.

[bigtree]

90. not all college educated people are 'smart'

but, perhaps I'm expecting too much from you to understand

[Occam Bandage]

91. No, but they're certainly more likely to be than those who aren't. A far better comeback

would have been, "In PA, she's also attractive to the smartest."

Of course, that would leave you open to my claiming that Obama has still won the highest-educated voters nationwide, so I can see why you didn't go that route.

[bigtree]

93. says you

:shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

95. ...

:eyes:

[bigtree]

99. ....

:*

[Occam Bandage]

86. Why? I never said that all Hillary supporters were dumb; just that most dumb people pick Hillary.

[bigtree]

96. again, in an elitist fashion, you equate lack of college with stupidity or dumbness

endearing.

Is that the position of the Obama campaign, or is that just a private joke?

[Occam Bandage]

100. Do you believe that

the uneducated are, on average, more intelligent than the educated? If that were the case, wouldn't that amount to a complete failure of the recruitment and admissions process?

Or do you believe that all people are equally intelligent? And, again, wouldn't that mean that the admissions process was utterly unnecessary?

Or do you actually agree with me, but find actually saying it to be un-PC?

[Medusa]

19. You have to admit it though, it provides endless amusement

watching her pander to whatever group du jour she needs to. Pandering, lying, and running pointless campaigns are her speciality.

[Phillycat]

61. It's just possible you've missed the point of this post.

[SeaLyons]

20. WOW...The Audacity!!!

Great Post Bigtree..

Keep that audacity going Hillary!!! All the way to the White House!!!

:kick:

[emilyg]

56. !!!!

[demokatgurrl]

30. You deserve a hug

:applause:
but since I can't find a hug in the smilies, you get appalause.
Great post. I am just about sick of people trying to deny others the right to make a choice. I will be even more chagrined to see the superdelegates take over and make the decision for me.
:mad:

[Phillycat]

62. To make a hug emoticon...

It's : hug :, without the spaces. :hug:

[flpoljunkie]

33. I have no problem with letting the people speak through the last primaries, June 3rd.

[NC_Nurse]

38. Her problem is narcissism, I'm not sure why some voters can't see it.

But that would be a whole other thread... :sarcasm:

[Armstead]

42. I see it.....She and Bill have a Mutual Narcissm Society going there

[Armstead]

41. If the situation were reversed, would you be calling Obama a "spoiler" now?

This is not a reflection on you personally.

But I can easily imagine that if Obama were in Hillary's overall position and Hillary were in his, the Clinton campaign would be calling Obama a "spoiler" and be attacking him for dividing the party and needlessly prolonging the primaries.

Her current "concern" for those who have not voted yet -- and for Fla nd Michigan -- would be non-existant. Instead, in her amazing ability to rationalize reality to suit her personal ambitions, she would be audaciously saying "It is time for Barak Obama to stop dividing the party and allow Democrats to unite behind me!"

[bigtree]

47. If it was Obama, I don't see how she could get away with it.

His supporters exaggerate the slightest of slights into capital offenses now, and he's ahead.

[knixphan]

46. famous quote

"This will all be over February 5th"

[Phillycat]

57. OMG, I know! The democratic process is SO TIRESOME.

All these people having their say, it's EXHAUSTING.

:D

[bigtree]

60. they just don't care what they do to themselves by resisting

. . . Obama's inevitable ascension

[Phillycat]

63. In my day, those unwashed masses KNEW THEIR PLACE.

Why, you'd think they don't understand the natural superiority of their betters! *monocle falls into champagne glass*

[Umbram]

64. You showed that scarecrow who's boss! (nt)

[Zuiderelle]

66. Indeed. Everyone should just line up. We shouldn't even have elections.

Let's just do what we're told.

[grantcart]

70. just out of curiosity and because I really respect you a great deal

in the next few days could you be so kind as to lay out a state by state example that shows her significantly diminishing Obama's lead in pledged delegates?

And then please add the narrative you see for the Super Delegates for them overturning the results of the primaries and the caucus results?


Given the NYT excoriating editorial on her negative tactics and the increasing negatives that is hitting both Democrat candidates there must be a very clear idea of exactly how this is going to turn successful for her to justify this cannibalism.


Thank you.

[oasis]

71. A coalition of older voters, union members, women and the "Bitter Brigade"

will be enough to gain the White House in November.

[GihrenZabi]

72. *sigh*

The utter stupidity being shown sometimes on these boards frightens and disgusts me.

"The Party" is the Democratic Party, meaning anyone willing to vote Democratic whether registered or not. "The Party" consists of whoever decides to support it. It is a fluid, moving population.

"The Party" is being weakened by Hillary in two decided fashions:

1) A larger percentage of the Hillbots say they will vote for McCain should their candidate not win than Obamabots. Therefore, when she loses, she weakens the campaign. And she will lose.

2) She is denying The Party the opportunity to rally behind a candidate and build the General Election warchest to take on McCain.


There's no argument on either of those points, OP. Swallow them and enjoy the test. Love it. Caress it. That's the truth you live with.

[bigtree]

77. That 'war chest' will be fine. It will, if judging by the historic levels of support, be massive

If you want to rally against McCain, no one is stopping you. Right now, nearly half of the Democrats voting between these candidates aren't satisfied with the front-runner. That disparity needs to be addressed first.

[Bake]

80. Great post, bigtree!! FAbulous!

And by the way, for all the Obots who have slammed the OP in this thread, remember that this is the same bigtree who has graced our forum with great photos from both campaigns, and whom you have previously praised ...

Again, kudos to you, bigtree!

:toast:

Bake

[bigtree]

82. kick

[gsaguyCLW54]

83. good one....

:toast:

[gsaguyCLW54]

84. good one....

:toast:

[scheming daemons]

89. The day after the Wisconsin primary, any vote for Hillary became a vote for McCain...

....even if the voters themselves didn't realize it.

[bigtree]

98. that's just defeatist rhetoric

already blaming the Clintons for some expected failing of your candidate.