If the SDs take this away from Obama, you will see the destruction of the Democratic Party for the

[IsItJustMe]

next generation. Do you really think the SDs are that damn foolish? There is definitely more than just 'who is the most electable in the GE' up for grabs here.

Sure the media wants to keep this going with their hype, and I think passionate Hillary supporters are honestly not thinking at all about the big picture here and will put their attachment to Hillary before the party's future, but I have to believe that these SDs are a hell of a lot wiser than that.

[NJmaverick]

1. YES! Absolutely! You will have the permanent repuke majority

that Rove dreamed of

[boobooday]

2. They will have to change their name n/t

[RoadRage]

3. I will officially become independent

If the dem party decides they know better then me (a voter) - the that is fine. That says to me that they no longer need me as a voter, and i'll happily put on my neutral cap and sit in the middle. I will also not vote for a candidate who decides to "steal" the nomination by using political arm-wrestling to take away the will of the people (popular vote & delegates).

I'm in the 18 - 30 age demographic.. and if the dems want to lose the next generation of voters by playing politics, then so be it. But if you don't think the republicans are waiting with arms wide open to scoop up pissed off 25 year old voters - you're wrong. They're bat-shit crazy.. but they're not stupid.

[asjr]

11. Just sit this one out then. I am

pissed off too, but I am still going to vote for the Democratic nominee. I will not cut off my nose to spite my own face. I am pissed off about the last 7 years with a Republican administration. "Political arm-wrestling" has been around for a long long time and will never leave us. It is part of the charade.

[RoadRage]

25. I guess I see it differently -

Policies, etc. are a 4 year deal... but i'm not going to vote and particiapte in a party that would seem to not care about the will of the voters, 90% of a large minority (blacks), and a large minority of new younger voters (18 - 35).

If the Party "elders" want to over-ride all of that to get their girl on the ballot in November - that is thier choice. But it becomes a party that I no longer want to be associated with. To me, that is just as important if not more important then the issues they claim to fight for.

[merbex]

26. You do realize that they are separated by 127 pledged delegates

and that there are aprox. 300 undeclared supers? And that there sre still voters who haven't had their voice heard yet?

And that the margin could get closer?

Sounds like you'll "take a walk" if Obama doesn't get it. Period.

I would urge you to let others vote, wait and see what the number both have approaching Denver.

I'm willing to bet that unless more supers start declaring neither Obama or Clinton will have enough before the Convention starts.

If that's the case why should either one be considered "the frontrunner".

I just want to win in November and I want the strongest candidate to go against McSame - it's starting to look like Gore - if neither of these 2 can outright win it and can't get it in the first ballot get ready for a consenus candidate.

And the only ones who will be upset will be partisans....get out and talk to people who wouldn't dream of posting on a political blog who are sick of what Clinton and Obama are doing to each other.

Gore's looking better and better

[quakerboy]

34. That I can agree with

If Hillary becomes the nominee, I may be able to bring myself to vote for her. But the day it became official, I would be sending in a new registration card, because the democratic party would no longer have room for me.

Fortunately I still feel confidant that that will not come to pass.

[Taxmyth]

4. The Democratic Party will survive

If that is the scenario then there will be some losses but a victory in November would go a long way towards healing. The SD's will have to decide which candidate gives the Democratic Party the best chance to win in November if one candidate doesn't drop before the convention.

[IsItJustMe]

5. I think you are wrong. Betrayal sticks in a voters mind over their lifetime, unlike any other issue

[flyarm]

13. like the betrayal of Obama and the dem surrogates of his that won't count the voters in Fl and MI?

because i CAN ASSURE YOU i WILL NEVER VOTE DEM AGAIN IF MY VOTE IS NOT COUNTED FOR THIS NOMINATION!! and being a former elected dem delegate for my state of Florida..i will vote for Mickey Mouse in Nov if my vote is not counted for this nomination and if my delegation's votes are not counted.

of that i assure you!

we in Fl have been subjected to repigs stealing our votes since at least 2000 and many many of us have fought to stop the stealing of our votes ..with no damn help from the dem party or leadership..and now to see our votes get stolen by Obama and his surrogates Donna Brazile and Howard dean is more than unacceptable.

And they will learn that dearly in November! and so will the rest of the dems throughout this nation!

fly

[IsItJustMe]

17. The rules are the rules, and Hillary was going buy them at the time, until they no longer worked for

her.

[karynnj]

18. Do you remeber that it was Edwards who was the first to take his name off in MI

and to challenge the others to do. All of them are on record - and video tape - saying it didn't count. Neither Brazile or Dean are surrogates of Obama, who I am sure wishes that the MI and FL problems were worked out well before voting. I do think the Democrats in FL and MI and Dean really blew it by not coming to a viable solution some time in 2007.

HRC did not speak out in early or mid 2007 to advocate for avoiding this disaster. The entire party thought it would be over after SuperTuesday and no one would be called on this mess. In fairness, Edwards and Obama and the lower tier candidates failed on this as well. I have heard sensible surrogates to Obama speak of the fact that a way will be worked out to seat the FL and MI delegates.

Personally, if both states were like FL, it would be reasonable to argue for seating them. But, as polls done when a revote was spoken of showed Obama likely to win MI, it is not fair to give HRC all her delegates and Obama none. Maybe you should give Edwards part of the blame there.

[quakerboy]

35. Talk to your local leadership

They are the ones who did this to you.

[ScarletSniper]

20. Yep. The Repub party loss black voters and never recovered ...

[GoldieAZ49]

30. never recovered? Is that why they win the presidential elections? they haven't recovered?

please!

[Tarheel_Dem]

23. so true. you only need look no further than florida. democrats lost

the cuban american population for more than a generation, and the republicans swooped in and took advantage of their disaffection. Which is why McCain is now traveling the country, and hitting all these black venues, and apologizing for his past transgressions. He sees an opening, and it's having an effect.

If the party, in its wisdom, decides that the will of the voters doesn't matter, I'm out.

[GoesTo11]

6. Could split

Progressives might conclude that they are no longer part of this party.

[johnlal]

7. Progressives might conclude that they are no longer part of this party

I think we started to get the hint after the 2006 election, when we changed the composition of Congress, and they went back to business as usual.

[Evergreen Emerald]

8. you post makes no sense. He is NOT inevitable.

Your suggestion is that he won and someone took it away.

If the SD take it from Clinton you will see the destruction of the democratic party.

[GoesTo11]

9. Help me make sense of your post

"SD take it away from Clinton" - how? If they split evenly for Obama and Clinton would that be taking it away from her? Because she deserves all of them?

[Evergreen Emerald]

10. You are suggesting that Obama is inevitable.

You are suggesting that Obama is so far ahead that the SD will "take the nomination away."

He is not inevitable. He is nearly tied. The only way EITHER of them can win is with SD.

To suggest that they MUST support Obama is to change the rules of the SD in the middle of the game (I thought you guys hated that?)

So. When people say the SD will steal it from him, I laugh. Because when the media said Clinton was inevitable, you all HATED her for that. And many said one of the reasons you refuse to support her was becasue of that mem (that she did not start by the way).

[GoesTo11]

15. You didn't read my post.

I said nothing about Obama already having it. I called you on your notion of SD taking it away from Hillary - she doesn't have anything to take away at this point.

[Evergreen Emerald]

16. That is my point: neither does Obama..Clinton is ahead in popular vote

LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE

Don't let the SD subvert the will of the people!!!

[Bigleaf]

24. Clinton is NOT ahead in the popular vote. Nice try. This is where it's laughable.

[Benhurst]

12. They can only "take it away " from him if he reaches 2025 elected

delegates. Otherwise it isn't his to take.

It looks as though neither of our two biggest losers is going to reach the goal. In the past -- and, yes, the party does predate both Obama and Clinton -- such leading candidates have failed to get the nomination.

Threatening to destroy the Democratic Party is hardly the best way to unite the party.

[chimpymustgo]

14. Thank you. Great post.

[ScarletSniper]

19. Yep. It will destroy the party. It will lose a great number of AA and young voters..I certainly

will walk away, as would many others I know.

[BlooInBloo]

21. Oh gawd. Somebody turn the melodrama switch off...

... We're right where we were yesterday - even worse for Clinton actually. Obama leads, there's no way for Clinton get either more delegate or greater popular, and there are no big states left.

[The Stranger]

22. Shit, you'll see more than that. You'll see more anger and violence than you have in decades.

[taught_me_patience]

27. I believe that there will literally be race riots

If you tell me that the superdelegates (that are mostly white) will choose a candidate that is behind in the pledged delegate count and fundraising because the other delegate is somehow "unelectable", there will be hell to pay. There will be a minority revolt. I will never call myself a democrat again.

[mrbluto]

33. So now fundraising is a metric?

...behind in the pledged delegate count and fundraising

So delegates are supposed to consider fundraising as important as pledged delegates now?

Fine. so long as we allow other considerations as well.

Like whether of not the candidate can win the GE.

Neither O or C are looking good on that front if the election were held today.

You may not like it, but there is a heap of racist people out there who, for bigoted reasons most won't admit to a pollster, will simply never allow themselves to pull the lever for Obama.

There's plenty of sexist idiots that will never vote for Hillary.

Both are millstones hung around the neck of a democratic victory.

Keeping this country a democracy, one in which we can work on eliminating these prejudices rather than see them codified, is the most important goal.

This is like the goddamn moonshot. How?

They land there have a big photo op and don't really get much done, nor have any real effect. The warping of the NASA budget set back real science.

It'll be the same with EITHER Obama or Clinton - big photo op, flag planted, one more exception to prove the rule. Pundits will chat about how historic it is throughout the 100 or so days of "honeymoon" the new administration gets. Then they'll be allowed to get very little done, the economic shit will hit the fan, the MSM will question whether they ever had what it takes, and the Democratic brand will be massively tarnished when it gets blamed for the depression.

The warping of the progressive movement, this focus on the equivalent of a racial or gender equality moonshot, will be a set back to real progress.

There is a damn depression around the corner - we need as big a tent, as huge as possible coat tails so the monied interests don't peck us to death when a solution must be committed to.

It sucks that there is this glass ceiling - it must be broken, but this is the exact wrong election to do it in.

Hate to say it, but there's bigger fish to fry.

Democracy and liberty itself are about to be seriously threatened.

We need them to set aside their prejudice, and we need to set aside the quest for a solution to prejudice, long enough to roll up our sleeves and make sure we continue to have a democracy.

Let's have a brokered convention.

Edwards/Webb 08!

[LWolf]

28. I've already seen the destruction of the democratic party.

The whole primary process is corrupt, super-delegates included. If democratic voters were so concerned with that corruption, why weren't they lobbying harder to reform the process well BEFORE this primary season?

Obama does not own this nomination. You can't "take" something from someone who doesn't have it to begin with. If Obama had enough delegates to secure the nomination, the super delegates couldn't overturn that.

I hope to hell that super delegates and the rest nominate a 3rd democrat, one less polarizing than either Obama or Clinton. One that will win in November.

That's the only positive outcome of this farce of a primary.

While there is no way in hell that I want to see Clinton as the nominee, I may toss her my otherwise castrated vote on May 20th, in an attempt to keep it close enough to give that brokered convention a chance.

[Daphne08]

29. You're exactly right. I've been a Democrat since 1970,

but I'll switch to Independent if they take this victory from Obama, and I think there are many out here just like me.

[Dbdmjs1022]

31. I agree (Youth Vote Perspective)

I think it goes without saying that if the SDs gave the nomination to Clinton while she's clearly in second place that the African American community would totally abandon the party. Hell the man has drawn 90% of the black vote in almost every state, and if Hillary were to lose even half of that she'd be in serious trouble in the GE. And from my perspective, I think the youth vote which has been largely energized by Obama's campaign would really lose faith in the party. I've only gotten involved in politics this year because of Obama, and many of my friends are the same. If Hillary gets the nomination under shady circumstances I definitely think that a big chunk of these new voters (myself included) would lose faith in the party, if not abandon it entirely.

And if Hillary loses the AA vote AND the youth vote, she doesn't win the GE. It's that simple.

[my3boyz]

32. And Hillary knows that too. She is continuing so she can destroy his chances in November.nt

[SoCalDem]

36. She was Valedictorian

of the George W. Bush School of Yoo-nitification