160,000 Republicans might be voting in the Pennsylvania Dem Primary today.

[Melissa G]

I just heard that on NPR this morning on my way in to work. 160,000 pubs and no paper trail. Jeesh...what a way to run an election.

edit to be clear: Pennsylvania is a closed primary. These 160,000 voters were republicans and switched before the deadline 1 month ago to be able to vote in the Dem primary.

[MercutioATC]

1. Well, if Clinton wins by 160k votes, we'll know for sure.

[Melissa G]

5. We can have anyone win by any amount and we have no way to verify

Here is a link to a bradblog article on the subject...


BLOGGED BY Brad Friedman ON 4/21/2008

Tuesday's Election Will be 'Unrecountable, Unverifiable, and Unauditable'...

On Tuesday night, you will be told who the winner of the Pennsylvania Primary is. You will accept it. You will have no choice. No matter who the winner really is. Or isn't.

This Tuesday's crucial contest will be primarily run on 100% faith-based, touch-screen e-voting machines across the state. There will be no way to determine after the election whether the computers have accurately recorded, or not, the intent of those voters who voted on them. As VerifiedVoting.org summarizes the crucial contest, it "will be essentially unrecountable, unverifiable, and unauditable."

Most of the votes, more than 85%, will be cast on touch-screen systems which do note provide so-called "Voter Verified Paper Audit Trails" (VVPATs), as their use has been found unconstitutional in the state, since its been determined, accurately, that ballot secrecy cannot be guaranteed when using such paper trail systems. Not that it matters.

With or without a so-called "paper trail" printer, all touch-screen voting machines are equally unverifiable and antithetical to American democracy. Period.

So, as with South Carolina's primary, so so long ago, and other states since, whatever the officials tell you at the end of the election, is what you, and we, will have to accept. Whether votes are counted accurately is completely out of anybody's hands at this point. It's strictly Democracy of the Gods...



http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5916

[TragedyandHope]

9. On one of the morning business shows

one of the regular pundits said that he was a Republican who has registered as a Democrat just to vote in this primary (for Obama), "so we could have the best choice of candidates in the General Election." He said he still hadn't decided which candidate he will choose in the Fall. One of the other pundits criticized him for meddling in the Democratic race.

On CNN, they had a panel of women voters and many of them were life-long Republicans who had registered as Democrat for the first time (some supported Clinton, others supported Obama). These newly-minted Democrats sounded like they intended to also vote for their Democratic choice in the General Election. They were completely fed up with Bush and didn't see McCain as being any different.

[rodeodance]

10. its the Obama camp who was registering a 'dem for the day"

[Blue_State_Elitist]

11. Obama overwhelmingly has won Republican votes this primary season.

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. It favors Obama

Dem voter surge could cut Clinton margin
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080421/pl_politico/9735;_ylt=Ak61tgzGoFRcX.4TcP_KCxFsnwcF

"Those party-switchers now represent about 7 percent of the roughly 2 million Democratic voters expected to turnout Tuesday, said Madonna.

A poll of those switchers and new registrants released by Madonna last week found that Obama was the preferred candidate for 62 percent of them. Clinton insiders said they are also bracing for the same 60-40 split among newly registered Democrats.

Depending on turnout, Madonna said, those newcomers could help Obama cut a Clinton victory margin by 2 to 3 percentage points and keep her below a double-digit win that would breath new life into the hard-fought race."

[MercutioATC]

38. Relax, peeps...it was a reference to Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos"...

[mucifer]

2. I think people are a little fed up with the economy.

To put a positive spin on this, they will now be on the dem mailing and phone lists for the general election and by then gas will probably be 80.00 a gallon.

[ericgtr]

3. Exactly why she's pandering to them by threatening to nuke people

she will say or do anything, absolutely zero integrity.

[Botany]

4. 125,000 flips in Ohio and even more in Texas

Now some might be repugs who want change but no doubt
there is a "big slug" of repugs who want to cause problems.

[LynneSin]

6. Only if 160K republicans managed to switch parties to the democrat side

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/22/pennsylvania.guide/

Pennsylvania is a closed primary. Only democrats may vote for democrats. Republicans also vote today but it's only McCain they would be voting for plus, I believe any republican primaries happening in the state.

[Melissa G]

18. Yep, these are pubs that switched before the deadline a month ago

Newly minted dems, who were formerly pubs was what the 160,000 was referring to on NPR.

[LynneSin]

41. Perhaps it could just be like my stepfather

I know he switched and he's in PA - and he's fed up with the repukes

[Melissa G]

42. Here is hoping that is the case and these voters will stick with the Dems

in the general election.:toast:

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Maybe some are fed up with their party

After all, they're stuck with Old Grand Dad as thier nominee.

No matter what happens over here, they've already picked a loser on their side.

[uponit7771]

15. I think a good portion of em are, I know to staunch reThugs that are voting dem this election

[quantass]

8. I thought PA is a closed primary?

[EFerrari]

26. It is. They switched their registration to votes as Democrats. n/t

[RiverStone]

57. Then do they need to switch back to vote puke in the fall?

[Dogmudgeon]

12. Been there, done that -- today

Registered Democrat for a long, long time.

"D" on the card.

"No Party" on the official rolls -- the same as when I first registered in 1978. None of my changes-of-address, all of which have asserted my Democratic choice of party, seem to have mattered.

Guess who ISN'T voting today.

And guess who IS going to be getting in the face of his local Board of Elections.

I already spoke to one of the front-line BOE people, who was very sympathetic. She said that there was a flood of problems -- at 8:50 AM.

Just how much CYA is required to vote, anyway? It's becoming like a minefield, and you never know if you're really able to vote. Every time there is a semi-contested election, they find some way to disenfranchise as many people as they can. This time, they caught me, and I was certain I had attended to every jot and tittle.

At least they tell me I can vote in the fall. But this time, I'll double- and triple-check that, too.

--p!

[peace13]

13. Well the pigs get what they deserve if Hill wins!

They did the same thing in Ohio. I worked the polls watching their smug little bloated faces as they waited in line. They have no idea what they have cost this country if this gives the win to Clinton.
Pushed past the limit, Kim

[AngryOldDem]

55. Did you hear some of the reasons they gave?

"Rep but want Dem." "One time only."

:mad:

[peace13]

66. Out of 600 people one said I don't want to be associated

with the Republican party, what do I have to do to change my affiliation? The others said things like...I'm going to do a little politicking today or acted 'surprised' when they found out that they could have either ballot and then said OK, I'll do that. We also had questions about how to change back the next time. I can see where some people might change over to vote for Obama but it was my gut feeling that the majority were not. One ol' codger limped off saying that he would do anything not to have a President Hussein. Right there, that one hit me pretty hard. What a goat! Peace, Kim

[Two Americas]

64. this is so funny

If Republicans vote for Obama, that proves he is the uniter with broad appeal. If Republicans vote for Clinton, that is proof that she is a Republican.

[peace13]

68. I don't know what Hill is but she seems pretty happy to blow

the lid off of this planet. She has been gunning for Iran for a very long time and you can't argue with that. Do sane people vote for their own destruction?

[Two Americas]

69. Clinton sucks

So what?

Obama and Clinton have exactly the same policy toward Iran and Israel, so near as I can tell. As a Black man, Obama cannot appear to be angry and aggressive, and as a woman Clinton cannot appear to be weak or soft. That is the reason for the different rhetoric. I would think that all Democrats would understand that and have BOTH of their backs on this. It is a matter of style and tactics, not policy.

We ask if the country is ready for a woman or a Black man as president. I wonder if the Democratic party activist community is.

If it is the policy that you have a problem with, then I would assume that you were a Kucinich supporter, yes? And you must be very unhappy with both candidates. I know I am. There are not very many Democrats who disagree with the policy being expressed by both candidates.

[uponit7771]

14. They had to switch registration though, THAT'S a good thing

[kentuck]

16. Right. It's a closed primary.

Republicans cannot vote in this primary. They would have to switch to the Democratic Party. Then they are Democrats.

[Melissa G]

21. Well that is one way to look at it. If they were gonna vote Dem in the fall,

I would agree. But I think a whole bunch of these folks are cross voting. Maybe I just believe this 'cuz I am from Texas and I know a bunch of folks who did cross vote in my precinct.

[kentuck]

27. There may be a few...

But I think you attribute too much sophistication to the Republican voters. These people voted for George W Bush. They are not sophisticated as a general rule. I think most of these folks are just pissed off at the Republican Party and also, do not want Hillary as the President. So it's a dual-purpose in their changing registration.

[SoCalDem]

47. Doesn;t matter.. they'll just switch back.. I did it myself in '00

switched to try & defeat Bush out here in CA..One phone call & a stamp undid my flip..

To avoid disingenuous flippers (like me :P..) there has to be a 6 month advance deadline...or a date-specific for all states to CHANGE (new unregistered is something else entirely)

It should be Dec 31 to CHANGE.. Perhaps 60 days prior to the individual primary would be sufficient to catch the newbies & unregistered..

That would pretty much eliminate the mischiefmakers

[zalinda]

17. Let's see if I got this straight

If Clinton gets the repub vote, she's bad and is repub light.

If Obama gets the repub vote, he's good and has turned repubs.

zalinda

[uponit7771]

20. I like the way you through out the conditions but not the information that precludes them. Spin dont

...work to well on the internet tubes because we can look up the fact that kkkon pundits have been urging reThugs to vote for Hillary.

[zalinda]

32. And you forgot the fact that

Obama has wanted people to be dem for a day. Or that repub talk shows have egged on people to vote either Obama (in the beginning) or Clinton (as of now) to keep the primary going. But, good spin.

zalinda

[mrreowwr_kittty]

35. Okay, I'll try to go slow for you here:

If Barack or Hillary want to encourage GOP voters to cross over that's fine.

When RUSH LIMBAUGH is telling his listeners to vote for one Democrat over another to mess up their primary, that's DIFFERENT.

It's really not that hard to understand, zalinda.

[zalinda]

46. Okay, now read slowly

Rush may have asked listeners to vote for Clinton, but other RW talk show hosts have asked their listeners to vote for Obama. Is that hard to understand? There were reports from all over the country that different hosts were asking their listeners to vote for one or the other. People were confused, until it was leaked that they want the primary to keep going so the dem candidates could get beat up. Rush is no more for Clinton than you are.

zalinda

[onehandle]

19. They have to register Democratic to vote in the primary.

That's the way it should be.

[endarkenment]

22. um - Pennsylvania is a closed primary state.

So there will not be any registered republicans voting in the democratic party primary. NPR seems to have their facts wrong.

[rodeodance]

23. you forgot obama 's DEM FOR THE DAY tactic: .........

"We give them two forms - one to change their registration now for the primary and one so they can switch back later,"BO volunteer revealing the true goals of the campaign
http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/tenbedroom-house-now-home-for-obamas-volunteer-army/2008/03/20/1205602581838.html

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

29. Immature post. obama would be so proud of you??

[Melissa G]

25. I edited my Op to be clearer. It's the potential cross voting and the lack of

ability to verify the results of the election that I am griping about. I'm from Austin, Texas and I know a bunch of folks who cross voted here.

[endarkenment]

28. There is no cross voting.

People will rarely if ever deregister from one party and register for the other on a lark. If 160,000 people have switched their registration, my guess is that 150,000 have done so because they are no longer going to vote republican.

[Melissa G]

31. What an amusing assertion. On what basis, do you make such a bold claim?

I can assure you that after his Rushness urged Texas voters to cross vote in Texas, many did.
For whatever reason, we saw them in my precinct at the polls, but they did not have the audacity to show up for the caucus afterwards. These folks were definitely cross voting. They are staunch repubs. We know the inclinations of the folks in our small town inside of Austin. We know our neighbors.

[endarkenment]

33. Texas is a semi-open primary.

Consequently cross voting is easy to do and there can be substantial cross voting. Of course you also have no data other than your own anecdotal evidence to back up your assertion of any actual effect on the results in texas, but if you find your opinion comforting to you, by all means stick with it. Deliberate crossover voting that affects the outcome is vanishingly rare in closed primary states. If you can demonstrate otherwise, please do so. Until then I will stick with the standard wisdom, which holds that only open and semi-open primary states, where it is easy to vote for either party's candidates, have even a potential problem with organized crossover voting.

[Melissa G]

39. Enjoy your opinion, since opinion is all you have for your rather bold Blanket assertion

that there is NO cross voting in PA. You also offer nothing else except your opinion and oh yeah, another unsubstantiated assertion that it is the common wisdom.

[endarkenment]

45. "that there is NO cross voting "

That is not what I said. I said it is considered to not be a problem in closed primary states such as Penn. But then again you have no actual evidence either. So what the heck are you going on about?

[2rth2pwr]

65. lol

[rodeodance]

30. I think this Dem for the Day is relevant:

"We give them two forms - one to change their registration now for the primary and one so they can switch back later,"BO volunteer revealing the true goals of the campaign
http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/tenbedroom-house-now-home-for-obamas-volunteer-army/2008/03/20/1205602581838.html

[jackson_dem]

50. That is because the Obama campaign encouraged many rethugs to become "Dems for a day"

[AllentownJake]

34. That is inaccurate

The total for Repubs was 68,000. They got the Repubs and Independents mixxed up.

[endarkenment]

36. Math is dead to us. nt.

[Melissa G]

40. Link please? Thanks! n/t

[AllentownJake]

43. Sorry

I read it a month ago and the article is gone

Here is an overall article on voter registration by county however.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9735_Page2.html

[AllentownJake]

44. Sorry

I read it a month ago and the article is gone

Here is an overall article on voter registration by county however.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9735_Page2.html

[GoldieAZ49]

48. just tuned into his show

he took a call from Bill in PA, an Operation Chaos operative that went with his buddies to vote for Hillary and says he told them exactly what they were doing, not clear who he told first, but then said he went to the Hillary table (?) and told them and they laughed. He said they were going to continue all the way to the convention.


1. I don't think candidates can have 'tables' at the polls, at least not here.

2. Primary voting ends June 7th, long before the convention.

so it may be true, it may be BS.

[jackson_dem]

49. Obama registered rethugs. He needs them like he needed them in Texas

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. Yep. Here he is doing it

I don't know if the links still work. They did when I posted this at DU in March:


http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/pavoterreg

He talks to you from this page at his web site that says...

"Already registered as a Democrat? Invite your friends to register as Democrats by March 24th!"

...after he explains how non-Democrats (Republicans specifically mentioned) can register as a Democrat so that they too can "vote for change".


The link to that video of Obama urging party switching to support him is found embedded numerous times in this email that was sent around by Obama's campaign, captured in this instance by someone with the name of Teresa:


Dear Teresa,

Register to vote The Pennsylvania primary is only six weeks away, but there's another important deadline coming up even sooner.

Anyone who wants to vote on April 22nd must be registered as a Democrat by March 24th. If you are not currently registered or are registered in another party, you must register as a Democrat in order to vote for Barack.

This race is extremely close, and every vote matters. Make your support count by registering as a Democrat today:

http://pa.barackobama.com/PAvote

If you're certain that you're already a registered Democrat, take a moment to invite five of your friends to register as Democrats so they can join you in voting in the Pennsylvania primary:

http://pa.barackobama.com/PArtv

This campaign has generated unprecedented enthusiasm all across the country. Hundreds of thousands of supporters have attended events, canvassed their neighborhoods, and organized their communities for Barack.

But the Pennsylvania primary is quickly approaching, and now's the time to turn our enthusiasm for Barack into votes.

Whether you are not registered or are registered as a Republican or in another party, make sure your voice is heard. The deadline to register as a Democrat is March 24th, but you can register today:

http://pa.barackobama.com/PAvote

Thank you,

Angela

Angela Botticella
Pennsylvania Deputy Field Director
Obama for America

P.S. -- If you are a student currently living in Pennsylvania, you are eligible to register as a Democrat here and vote in the primary on April 22nd.

Register right now:

http://pa.barackobama.com/PAvote

And if you know that you are a registered Democrat, invite five of your friends to register as Democrats in Pennsylvania and vote on April 22nd:

http://pa.barackobama.com/PArtv

[AllentownJake]

52. Real Numbers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5621409&mesg_id=5621409

[NashVegas]

53. Barack Obama Had An Advertisement/ YouTube Video Instructing Republicans How to Get Around the Rules

He made a pitch to Repukes and independent voters, telling them how to get registered in time for the cut-off date.

[MethuenProgressive]

61. That's par for the course for him.

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Only registered Democrats can vote in PA

So, for you, somebody is a Republican even if he or she is a registered Democrat. Nice political philosophy...

[NC_Nurse]

56. 160,000 registered Repubs changed their affiliation to Dem this year by the

deadline to vote in this primary. That is what was reported on NPR.

[alcibiades_mystery]

62. As soon as they are registered as Democrat, they are Democrats

That's how things work here. Your political affiliation isn't something that inheres in your being like qualities of medieval theologians. It is a function of your registration, pure and simple.

[NC_Nurse]

63. I was just clarifying what the story on NPR was about.

I'm not concerned either way. Sheesh. :eyes:

[crankychatter]

58. DLC RNC Boc

it's going to take participation from hell to overcome this

maybe even in the GE

[IronLionZion]

59. What sort of Republicans exactly?

Please define it. What makes one voter a Republican, or Democrat, or Independent? Do you know what's going on in their minds?

[MethuenProgressive]

60. That'll cinch an Obama upset.

The Republicans hate Hillary, almost as much as Michelle Obama does.

[jackson_dem]

71. Rethugs voted for O 55-40, just like they do in 99% of states

[Texas Hill Country]

67. IIRC, it was Obama peeps that were braggin about handing out the forms to switch and switch back....

[madrchsod]

70. so?

obama lost 9 counties out of 102 in illinois in 2004. the republican hell where i live obama won and kerry lost.there`s a lot of republicans that just might not like grampa and are voting for hillary or barack

[MrSlayer]

72. My brother is a Republican registered as a Democrat.

Of course he went for Hillary to keep the carnage going.

[AZBlue]

73. As disruption or because they are sick of their party and want change like the rest of us?

Can they switch back to Republican before the GE or are they locked in now?