IF HILLARY CAN THROW ANOTHER DEMOCRAT UNDER THE BUS SO EASILY, WHAT WOULD SHE DO TO YOU?

[redstate_democrat]

Hillary took every opportunity GIVEN TO HER to attack Obama on stupid, irrelevant issues. She has consistently shown that she cares little for the Democratic party. She is all in it for herself. What if she ends up being the nominee and during the GE, the MSM forces her to "clarify" her prior statements and move more to the right to appear "more electable", what would she do? She would assume that Dems would generally have no choice but to vote for her against McCain, so she would be more willing to abandon core Democratic values because she simply has NO CORE. She is all about getting what she wants for herself.

You already see that she is talking like a WAR HAWK with this "umbrella" talk. She basically said that she would treat an attack on the UAE as if it were an attack on the U.S.! WHAT IN THE FUCK IS THAT? So, basically, fuck the U.S. economy, fuck the lives of American soldiers who have to go fight these wars, she believes the security of the UAE is EQUALLY as important as OUR security. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO POLICE THE WORLD. What is it about this she and the Repubneocons that they are not understanding!!! The SECURITY of the United States is PARAMOUNT! Our priority should be OUR SECURITY FIRST!

SHE MAKES ME SICK.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

1. its practice, she is toughening him up so the repigs can't eat him alive

just think if Hillary hadn't been such an ass all this time?

Because of all the attacks, Obama ran the gauntlet, and he really is
"No Drama Obama" and very impressive.

I too have been very angry and "bitter" torwards Hillary over her actions,
but if you think about it, Obama has proven he can handle it.

I don't know another Dem who could withstand her attacks, do you?

Overall, I think we did great tonight, and the proof is that the more
people get to know Obama (and his wonderful wife), the more they are impressed.

He has become a much better debater too with all of this practice.

He has to really be prepared for what the gas bag Repigs dish out once its
one on one.

[roguevalley]

40. do to us? She doesn't even know we exist. Witness her witless

pollyanna bullshit about all us being so positive and cheerful as we drown.

[jobycom]

2. Well, since Obama has already thrown his supporters under the bus...

in Canada and England, where his campaign told officials not to take his promises to voters on NAFTA and troop withdrawal, respectively, seriously.

How's it look under there? Or has he convinced you that under the bus is really the high road?

[SunsetDreams]

5. Wha? facts much?

It was proven that both campaigns had talked to Canada.

Canada has issued a statement that Obama campaign statements were taken out of context and misconstued.

Canada has not issued the same statement about Clinton's campaign being misconstrued...hmmmm

England? Where did you get that info?

Colombia however, Sen. Clinton has ties to that trade deal through Mark Penn, and Bill Clinton, and we are suppose to believe she is against it?

She was for Nafta before she was against it, as evidenced by video of her pro stance, and White House records.

I don't know what the hell your talking about with troop withdrawal.

[jobycom]

22. Always. You?

Canada denies that anyone from the Clinton campaign said any such thing. The memos show that Obama's camp did. http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-nafta8mar08,1,4672705.story

England-- Here's a video of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__STTpG-qFw
Notice her reassurance that it's a "best case scenario" and that on Iraq, "we've never seen the best case scario..."

Notice the pattern, and then add Obama's "misspeaks" on oil company money, lobbyist money, PACs, Iraq war funding, troop withdrawals (remember, he promised one thing while campaigning, and did the opposite when elected to the Senate, causing anti-war groups to call him a traitor)... Obama talks tough, but never means it. He makes firm promises, then reneges on them. Promises and statements to him are simply "political positioning" (in the words of his campaign adviser, Austan Goolsbee, to the Canadian government), not firm promises. Same thing Samantha Power told the BBC.

He's a fraud. Discover it now, or discover it later.

[LooseWilly]

62. I'll waste a minute telling you you're an idiot

A member of the Obama camp said something to the Canadians. It was supposed to be confidential.
There was no evidence it was sanctioned by Obama himself. He dismissed it, and the Canadians did so as well.

There is the possibility that the campaign spokesman was actually trying to play Canada... every bit as
much possibility as there was that Obama camp was lying to Ohio, or whatever state it was at the time.
Unofficial communications always carry that possibility.

Your "best case scenario" video is incoherent... and means nothing. It doesn't even really give an idea
of what follows from such best case scenario, let alone what other options might be available. In fact,
I'm not sure what that video refers to at all. Do you have some friggin context for that gibberish?

Ohh yeah, and what are these patterns you speak of? What are these misspeaks on oil company money?,
lobbyist money, PACs, Iraq war funding, troop withdrawals?... I'm confused... are you suggesting that because
he couldn't get Republicans to give up the war inside of 2 years of effort, despite the machinations of the Bush machine,
that we should decide he's incompetent... despite the fact that, while he made whatever effort he made
HRC was voting to label the Quds force of Iran, a part of their state military, a terrorist organization... a
label that, realistically and potentially justifies using previous war powers acts to attack Iran, ...
are you saying that BHO is a problem??

Or are you just another "patriot" itching to start another war in he Middle East?
Do you care about the troops spread too thin?
Do you care about the civilians liable to be caught in the middle?

I do.
My Uncle, Aunt, and more neices and nephews than I've ever been allowed to meet by State Department statutes live in Iran.
If Obama's willing to talk to Ahmadinejad, I'll vote for him.

What's your game plan? Another CIA coup, and we put a happy American sympathizer in his place... without ever having spoken to his predecessor????
A) That's like Britain having thought they could've put a happy tory in place of Washington, and just taken the
Continental Congress off to Gitmo.
B) Fuck you for even thinking such a thing on DU. This plan isn't democratic, and would just extend the nationalistic drama that is the middle east in reaction to US power plays. Has the thought of letting nations in the Middle East develop themselves with the money that comes from oil, despite past conflict, never crossed a mind? We did it with Saudi Arabia. In fact, Truman wanted to do the same with Iran, but BP... the fucking British, would have no part of it. Instead, Truman walked away from Iran, leaving Eisenhower and the CIA, and British notions, to determine what is now the relations between the US and the Middle East.
Maybe someone willing to talk with the Iranians, rather than just threaten them in the old British style, could lead us to normalized relations... relations that might even encourage the population to try to get past the RW ayatollahs in power... an action which might inspire the US to reject its right wing Evangelists in turn.

[Hoof Hearted]

3. The crowd of good dems under O-bam-bam's bus is far more extensive. Rest assured he never cared

about any of you.

[SunsetDreams]

6. nice try but you all are really desperate

just like your candidate. You candidate does not care about anyone but herself.

[barb162]

4. Obama is floundering; he threw himself under the bus with his dumb comments.

[SunsetDreams]

7. not hardly...keep dreaming

[barb162]

15. I'm perfectly awake and laughing.

She whupped his ass.

[Zachstar]

26. Like she did with this footage?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x119397

[barb162]

46. Yawner.

[Cha]

12. You just threw yourself under the fucking bus..

[barb162]

16. Do tell.

Sounds like you've been under it for a bit now.

[Cha]

19. What would you know? you're all bloody

and spent from supporting the
lying, whineyass poseur.





LOSER

[barb162]

39. And you prove you what little you know.

Should I post a photo of bho with a brewski in his hands and drinking or photos of his bowling trying to ACT non-elitist.

[Zachstar]

24. Like Clinton did to herself?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x119397

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. Waaa waaa now crying fowl really believe they could protect Mr. Obama, ..........

as his Democratic challengers did all last year, throughout the rest of this campaign? Asking a question about Rev. Wright? A question about William Ayers? The horror! Seriously, is Senator Obama so frail that he shouldn't be subjected to questioning that should have come a long time ago and will inevitably come in the general election? If nothing else and at the very least, everyone in the Democratic party should want to know how he's going to handle this stuff if he's our nominee. Because there can be no doubt that the wingnuts will lock and load Barack's greatest hits, then share them with the electorate in a cascade of negative gifts.


What, did Obama's adoring fans think they could hermetically seal him and protect him from the meanies out there, then simply deliver him to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue because "he's the one?" Good grief.

[SunsetDreams]

9. yeah you all are crying in desperation

[Zachstar]

25. Good Grief? What about compared to Clinton?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x119397

[Political Heretic]

10. Does anyone ever clean this bus? Seriously so many people have apparently been "thrown under it"

its a wonder it can even move to run over anyone anymore what with all the caked on guts.... :shrug:

[Cha]

13. Yay! The ignore feature is

back on..I outlasted it not being on.

[Political Heretic]

14. You ignore me? You bastard!!!1!!11 :)

[Cha]

11. hilary's a little fucking chickenshithawk who squawks

a lot..

[barb162]

17. Obama's just a little fucking chickenshit .

[Cha]

20. hilary's a fuckingasshole liar..

"Why Hillary’s Lies are Important"

- March 24, 2008, 9:53PM
Hillary Clinton has been caught in a series of lies and misrepresentations during the primary campaign. To some of her supporters, these lies may seem trivial and insignificant and even politics-as-usual. However, please consider the serious impact of these lies by placing them in the context of the past seven years of the Bush Administration and the legacy of expanded executive power that he leaves behind. In particular, consider the dangerous message that the Clinton campaign sends by employing similar tactics to achieve her political goals.

1. The Florida and Michigan Primaries / The Delegate Count
Hillary agreed to honor the DNC’s decision to strip Florida and Michigan of its delegates after their primaries were moved up into January in express violation of the DNC rules. She did not change her position on the validity of these primaries until she found herself unexpectedly behind in the delegate count and desperately needed to claim the delegates that she had won in these unsanctioned contests. As her chances of winning the nomination became increasingly slim in recent weeks, we have been presented with threatening and desperate lines of reasoning for why these primary results should count as is. At the same time, Clinton and her surrogates continue to propose different metrics for determining who should win the nomination even though there is and has been a clearly defined process in place for several decades.

Please think about the implications of changing election rules after the fact. We have suffered through at least one stolen presidential election and the manipulation of untold numbers of Congressional and state elections through various vote tampering and voter intimidation schemes used by the Republicans and their allies. The American people (and especially Democratic voters) have lost faith in the integrity of the election process. The Clinton strategy to continually change the rules for determining the Democratic Party nominee sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to increasingly un-Democratic elections in the future if it is allowed to succeed. If anything, we need more transparency and methods of accountability in our elections in order to repair the damage done in recent years and to restore our confidence in the Government.

2. The Bosnia Fabrication / Exaggerated Experience Claims
Hillary fabricated a story about a dangerous, life-risking visit to Bosnia in order to gain stature as an experienced negotiator in international conflicts and war. While this type of embellishment can seem almost comical, it represents a willingness to distort reality in order to influence the public perception. This is the same type of distortion that the Bush administration used to justify the war in Iraq, although the magnitude of the lie is certainly on a different scale. The Bush administration falsified reports, cherry-picked intelligence, used unreliable sources, and employed fear-mongering tactics to convince the American public that our safety was at risk and as such, you were either with us or with the terrorists. The lies used by President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are impeachable offenses and should be condemned by all Americans. Sadly, the Clinton campaign seems to have shown a shocking willingness to employ the same tactics to create a more favorable reality and to rely on divide-and-conquer rhetoric to weaken opposition. Her attempts to frighten the American people by conjuring up 3 AM phone calls are bad enough, but her vote of confidence in John McCain over Barack Obama should be seen as treason against the Democratic Party.

3. NAFTA
Hillary lied about her position on NAFTA and used her lies in a calculated way to influence the Ohio primary. Recently released White House documents confirm that Hillary had been an active proponent of NAFTA prior to its passage, and she has continued to support it publicly in her speeches and memoir. However, while campaigning in Ohio, she claimed to have been privately against NAFTA during the Clinton presidency and believes that it should be rewritten to protect American jobs and workers. This type of maneuvering is reminiscent of the behind-closed-doors policy-making that the Bush administration has used during the past seven years. Specifically, Bush and Cheney have made policy decisions without providing transparency to Congress or the public, and President Bush has repeatedly ignored the rule of law by issuing signing statements and disregarding the parts of the laws that he doesn’t agree with. If we cannot trust Hillary to be truthful about her positions on critical legislative issues now, how can we trust that she will be truthful as president?

These are just three examples that illustrate the concerns we should have with a candidate who demonstrates a sense of entitlement to the nomination and is willing to lie, misrepresent, threaten, and divide in order to obtain the nomination. President Bush and the neoconservative movement have greatly harmed this country by the creation of an imperial-like presidency. This election is not just about whether a Democrat or Republican wins but if the checks and balances are restored to the three branches of government. The framers of the Constitution were in such fear of an imperial president that mechanisms for impeachment are prominently and explicitly included in the Constitution. If Hillary Clinton is willing to use lies and deceit to win the Democratic nomination, what assurances do we have that she will not continue to use them once she is president?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/why-h ...

<snip>

"Her response to being caught lying to a military audience, when she invented a story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia, was to say it wasn't surprising she got some things wrong, seeing how she spoke millions of words every day. What a magnificent idea, that if you say lots of words some of them are bound to be fantastic lies. So if you listen carefully to horse-racing commentators they say things like "And it's Teddy's Boy still leading three furlongs out as they come up to the fourth last fence with Nip and Tuck two lengths behind by the way I fought a tiger once, punched it clean out and they're all safely over."

<lots more>
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/opinion/article3 ...

"It's not that lying to pad the resume, avoid Indictment or to advance her political fortune is anything new for Hillary Clinton. She famously said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary (debunked); she told New Yorkers she was a Yankee fan when she lived in Chicago (debunked); she told rural New Yorkers that she was a "duck hunter" (debunked); she claimed that her daughter Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center at the time of the 9/11 attack (debunked by Chelsea herself.) And, those subpoenaed Rose Law billing records just happened to show up one day on a hallway table in the most monitored home in America!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[barb162]

38. And bho is a fuckingasshole liar.

yawn.

[melody]

18. She's really a Republican -- I thought at one time she was only a borderline sociopath

After tonight, I'd have to say she's as much of a sociopath as Bush and Cheney. She just uses the Democrats
as her brand. She doesn't give a goddamn about its people.

[Zachstar]

28. Or the people of the United States in my view.

Look at this footage!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x119397

[kevinmc]

21. WHAT WOULD SHE DO TO YOU? Her Husband already did it - see NAFTA and China n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

23. Get me health care?

[PBS Poll-435]

27. That was my first answer!

Dang you!

[PBS Poll-435]

29. Grow the Middle Class?

Enough of the divisive politcs of the 2008s.

Lets get back to helping our country.

[melody]

31. Hillary is the one selfishly standing in the way of a Democratic victory

If you're backing her, you're the one standing in the way of growing the middle class.

[PBS Poll-435]

32. Huh?

I am backing her because she WILL grow the middle class.

No smoke and no mirrors.

If you think by staying in the race when things are close hurts us, I would remind you that the election happens on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

[melody]

33. And I would remind you she has no path to the nomination ... none that won't kill the party

So what is her REAL motivation?

I once had immense respect for the Clintons. I now strongly suspect their motives.

[PBS Poll-435]

35. She has the same path to the nomination that Obama does.

Nice try.

[melody]

41. No, she has no chance -- zero. What is with you people? It's simple math!

She cannot get the nomination without destroying the party. Are you all so selfish and blind that you'd rather kill the Democratic Party than NOT get your way?

[PBS Poll-435]

47. You people?

Jeez :eyes:

[melody]

50. You're the ones who are standing in the way of the Democratic Party -- so it's "you people"

You're the enemy of the process right now. You zealously, blindly refuse to accept that Obama IS our nominee,
whether you like it or not.

Edwards is out ... Clinton cannot win ... our nominee is Obama.

If we don't embrace ONE nominee now, we're handing November to McCain -- and maybe that's the whole idea, hm?

[PBS Poll-435]

51. No. You have no idea.

Does Obama have 2024 delegates?

No? Well then we do not have a nominee.

And all this paranoia about November is really overblown.

[melody]

52. The people dealing with reality have the only ideas that count

There's no way for Hillary to get 2024. SHE is the one standing in the way of our nominee.

It's not paranoia -- she has consistently sided with McCain all along. Her lip service to "don't vote for
McCain" is just lip service. Her posturing is what shows her real inclinations.

As I said to all Hillary supporters, why not just join the GOP? You're doing their work for them. At least
you'll be doing it honestly that way.

http://gop.com/

[PBS Poll-435]

54. Why are you so bitter.

They both have the same path to the nomination. Pledged + Superdelegates.

Constantly sided with McCain...BlahBlahBlah. It is politics and she is trying to marginalize her opponent.

And we don't have a nominee. You claiming that Obama is the nominee says that you are not dealing with reality.

[melody]

57. Bitter? I'm enraged -- she is forcing her will upon the rest of the party and so are you

My nominee Edwards bowed out because he had no chance of getting the nomination. He was out of money
and out of time. He made the difficult decision of a loyal party member.

It is WAY past time for the party to have consolidated behind *one* candidate. Don't "blahblahblah" this --
she's nothing less than a traitor. I worked damned hard to get Bill Clinton into office in 1992. I
admired them both deeply. I have gone from deep admiration to the closest thing I thought I would ever get
to true hatred for someone I don't know.

You are believing her lies and she's using you to destroy our party. I have written about the Bush family
for twenty years -- I know too well how deep their tentacles reach into various realms of power. It's very
clear to me now that the Clintons are nothing more than their whores in the Democratic Party.

Thank you for giving us four more years of the same monstrous shit.

[PBS Poll-435]

58. You need to take a step back and breath.

Hillary Clinton is not a traitor. Saying that is destructive and does more to delay party unity than anything the Clintons are doing.

Do you remember her speech and the support she gave to Barbara Boxer 1/6/05?

We are not supposed to have a nominee until the convention. Isn't that when you can officially spend GE funds raised?

And I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. What does this mean: "Thank you for giving us four more years of the same monstrous shit."

[melody]

59. They're "Republican lite"

I'm not supporting Hillary for the same reason I didn't support her husband -- they're kinder, gentler corporate fascists.
I'm a free enterprise person. I don't believe in totalitarian business ethics. Silly me.

She gave Barbara Boxer support because she needed her support.

I'm sorry, I see Hillary in far clearer terms than ever I did before. There is no reason for her continued "campaigning" other than to drive our party into the ground. That's her whole plan. There can be no other reason -- clearly BushCo has compromised the Clintons to such an extent, they're demanding she stay in the race to hurt Obama. Hillary is going to end up hated by nearly everyone except for her core that cannot seem to see what's really going on. If that's what you want, then cheer her on.

Yes, I sometimes truly think Hillary is only staying in the race to support McCain's candidacy. I honestly believe she may well be compromised based on 20 years of reading and writing about the Bush crime family and the Democratic whores who serve them. It's not just the BushCo CIA drug-running through Mena, Arkansas that Clinton supervised.

I think your support for Clinton is assuring us, my friend, of four more GOP years. If that happens, the blood of the innocent will be on the hands of her supporters, not just her own. There is no way short of destroying the party for her to get the nomination. Our only candidate IS Obama. You are choosing now -- siding with Hillary is supporting McCain.

[zulchzulu]

30. Like we enabled Bill when he cheated on Hillary, we're enabling her now

It's is nearly mathematically impossible for her to get the nomination unless SHE CHEATS (hint: which she will if we let her). We can let her continue to go down her merry path of trying to destroy Obama as the loyal Republican that she is OR we can stop her.

If she wins in PA by a few points, it will have to continue until North Carolina and Indiana. If she loses PA, it is time to shut her down IMMEDIATELY.

I only hope that Pennsylvania is not VAIN and lets her win. She had her shot, no pun intended, and she lost.

[bowens43]

34. Hilarry doesn't care about democrats or republicans

as we all know the only thing that hillary cares about is hillary. She will do anything or say anything that she feels will further her quest for power.
If she thought it would help , she would do to her husbnad and daughter what she is attempting to do to Obama. the woman is clearly a sociopath.

[Skwmom]

36. They've already thrown the working class under the bus.

[Orsino]

37. The same thing she's been doing in the Senate...

...selling my ass to the corporations, and helping them start wars I can't pay for. Why be surprised now?

We need a Democrat to frickin' lead, and my last hope is that Obama will one day find that within himself. He and Clinton have that power, if they will only use it.

[countingbluecars]

42. Her words

"Screw-em"

[redqueen]

43. Heheheeheh...

:thumbsup:

[TragedyandHope]

44. She wouldn't be as bad as McSame

She might even do some good, if she thinks it would be to her political advantage.

Honestly, I think her attitude and conduct are much worse than her actual positions. Unfortunately, her consistent miscalculations and poor choice of tactics during this campaign don't bode well for her hypothetical Presidency.

[BlooInBloo]

45. SHE WOULDN'T TALK IN FUCKING ALL CAPS!!!!!

Sayeth this Obama supporter.

[Mme. Defarge]

48. Recommended!

[DuaneBidoux]

49. The one thing is that she is sleazy enough to handle and relaunch any Repuke attack

If Obama plays it too nice against McCain he will McLose.

[MH1]

53. DING DING DING!!!!!

This is EXACTLY WHY so many Kerry supporters (and others) decided after she backstabbed Kerry in '06, that we could never support her.

Thank you for expressing it so clearly.

[HuffleClaw]

55. but you'd vote for her if she is nominated ?

just asking

[Justitia]

56. See, I believe Hill & Bill threw Me & My Party under the bus during Impeachment.

What they did sent us wandering off into the wilderness for 12 yrs, costing us the White House and the Congress.

We've ALL been under the bus for a very long time.

Of course, given the legislation they shepherded during their time in the WH, all the triangulating bullshit, they threw the rest of the country under the bus with us.

The Clintons only have The Clintons personal ambitions as a priority.

[Tactical Progressive]

60. You're talking about Obama's penchant for throwing Dems under the bus

and yeah, he'll throw anybody and everybody under a bus as long as it's good for Obama.

Hillary cares about this country and the people in it. She's made a life out of that.

Obama cares about Obama.

[Two Americas]

61. almost all

Almost all Democratic party politicians are throwing all of us under the bus almost all of the time. That is the truth. What you are talking about is what you wishing and hoping the truth to be. That is probably why you feel that you have to shout at the rest of us, but shouting and attacking others does not make the truth untrue, nor does it make your hopes and wishes the truth. Getting a bunch of other people to shout along with you and join in the attacks won't do the trick, either.

[Vinca]

63. One of the main reasons I don't support her is that she says her

health INSURANCE plan will be in effect by the end of her second term. I might not live that freaking long. She might not have a second term. What the heck kind of promise is that? Sounds like a good premise to run a second term campaign on and nothing else. I don't believe she has any intention of carrying this out. I don't trust her.