Been a while since I posted an OP here.

[Jed Dilligan]

I am trying to avoid it as much as possible.

However, there are two points that I think need to be made, because so many (on both sides) seem to be missing one or the other or both.

1. When Clinton voted for the IWR, she was betting on the neoconservatives being right. New York was not going to send her home for voting against the war. She voted for the war because she thought that, by the time this campaign rolled around, the war would seem like a success, not something to run against. I don't 100% blame her for this--after all, her husband's military adventures were largely deemed successful by the public, and the last war against Iraq was a cakewalk, too. However, as one of the people betting against the neocons in 2002-3, I can't help see it as a massive and tragic miscalculation that in itself should disqualify someone from even running for president. And don't "But Kerry" me. It bothered me then that he had voted for it, but in 2004 the war was not so universally viewed as unwinnable, and as a political calculation (gunning for '04 rather than '08) it was not so profoundly misguided as Hillary's. Obama's votes to fund the war that he opposed before it started, in contrast, were not gambles on the wisdom of neocon foreign policy; they were much simpler political calculations, and completely correct ones. Having voted to strip GIs on the ground of their funding would be the end of any candidate in a national campaign.

2. The meaning of the "bittergate" comments has been vastly distorted by lack of context. Obama was talking about how people can get sucked into these largely meaningless "heartstring" issues, all of which have been used repeatedly by Republicans, when the government has failed to fix the problems that plague them (and which only the government can fix) for so long that they have lost their faith in it. That is the bitterness he is talking about, and I doubt that any can deny that it is a bitter truth.

[Swamp Rat]

1. k&r

[sniffa]

12. Deux

:kick:

[yellerpup]

2. You should speak out more often.

You make lucid points politely but with force. Kick! :kick:

[grantcart]

14. I agree

[Jed Dilligan]

18. That's a big compliment coming from you!

Maybe I should try to weigh in with an OP every few days.

[Scurrilous]

3. Good post.

K & R :thumbsup:

[dchill]

4. "...vastly distorted by lack of context."

Especially true, since the overall context of the remarks consisted of Obama's views of the Thomas Frank book What's the Matter with Kansas?, which describes the same things that Obama said, and had repeatedly said since 2004.

[Tinksrival]

5. One of the only decent threads to respond too!

Thanks for making it! I agree with your two points.

[JuniperLea]

6. Well said... for the most part...

This bit bothers me though...

"Having voted to strip GIs on the ground of their funding would be the end of any candidate in a national campaign."

I don't think a political campaign should come into play with life and death issues such as war. We have far too much of this going on. Other than this, you make solid points!

[Jed Dilligan]

8. Unfortunately, "should" is far from "is" in politics.

If the Democrats had actually campaigned to and succeeded in forcing a withdrawal, we would be screwed this year. We would own the defeat for decades to come, just as in so many eyes we still own the Fall of Saigon.

[Mz Pip]

7. Republicans not only

use these issues to divide, they actively fan the flames of the resentment these wedge issues cause. Spend a bit of time litstening to Rush or Hannity or O'Reilly and that is exactly what is going on. THey stir up hatred based on religion, abortion, guns, immigrants and do it regularly.

Now they accuse Obama of being out of touch with the very people they have cultivated. THey don't want Obama to be able to reach these people. They are the bulk of the listeners of RW radio. THese people are bitter because they are told they should be over and over again.

[Jed Dilligan]

10. What makes people vulnerable to hate radio

is that their lives are unsatisfying and fraught with pain, scavenging for scraps in a dying economy. If we were all well-fed and cared for and secure in our positions, we would laugh the screaming little Hitlers off the air.

[cliffordu]

9. You need to post here more often, for sure.

IF you ever run out of posts, PM me what you want posted and I'll share credit with you.


:hi:

[Jed Dilligan]

11. I just don't want to spar with some moran

I guess I should start using ignore, eh? But it's against my nature.

Thanks for the offer!

:hi:

[cliffordu]

13. You're welcome,

Notice how I offered to take half your credit....HAHAHAHAH

And yeah, I don't argue much with the morans, either. I can't seem to ignore many of them, though, cause I need to work on my insults....

:hi:

[RazBerryBeret]

15. great post...

I'm not sure why you haven't posted for a while, but I'm hoping you post more frequently. Voices of reason are always appreciated.

[Jed Dilligan]

16. I just don't want to get into it with unreasonable posters

I can't seem to help it or keep anyone on ignore for more than 15 minutes!


This thread has seen the peanut gallery awfully quiet, though.

[RazBerryBeret]

17. Understandable.

but sometimes you just have to walk away from your computer! that's what I do! hehehe!

[Kurovski]

19. K&R. (nt)

[Lucky 13]

20. Very good post. nt

[Jed Dilligan]

21. Thanks

Bad timing I guess (debates and all). A kick for the evening folks.

[D23MIURG23]

22. Brilliant. Thanks.

:hi:

[Jed Dilligan]

23. Thank you!

One last kick for non-spin this dizzy morning...

[Muttocracy]

24. kick

[SunsetDreams]

25. great post :)