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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:03 PM
Original message
Something Different about Obama
http://blog.kiplinger.com/politics/2008/04/something-different-about-obam.html

Something Different about Obama
By Jon Frandsen


Observers and analysts of all persuasions generally agree that there is something distinctly different about Barack Obama. However, they tend to focus on his compelling speaking skills and his ability to attract and mobilize new voters, especially younger people. What truly sets him apart from many other candidates for any office is an ability to use those skills and attributes to knit together a broad-based grassroots movement that many have tried but failed to form in the past.

How good he is at this will be tested severely in a couple weeks in the crucial Pennsylvania primary, where he has been closing Hillary Clinton's once double-digit lead.

Washington Post columnist Peter Beinart recently highlighted Obama's distinctive organizing skills by making an absurdly obvious point that is too often overlooked: Obama is winning because he has run a heck of a good campaign. He has outmaneuvered Clinton on virtually every front. He engineered an upset in Iowa by building a superb ground organization, effectively tapped the organizational and fund-raising powers of the Internet better than any candidate to date and built nearly insurmountable lead in pledged delegates by campaigning hard in states Clinton too long neglected. He's now using those skills and the bounty from them -- record campaign contributions -- in a bid to derail Clinton for good in Pennsylvania. Obama may not win there, but he has a good shot at doing well enough to keep Clinton from picking up a lot of momentum.

"It is this remarkable hybrid campaign, far more than Obama's thin legislative resume, that should reassure voters that he can run the government. As president, he'll need to keep his supporters mobilized: It will take a grass-roots movement, breathing down Congress's neck, to pass universal health care," Beinart writes.

snip//

A McCain-Obama match-up would not feature just sharp differences on Iraq, the economy and a host of other issues. Both men are students of power and how to obtain and use it, but the lessons they have learned would make them distinctly different leaders. McCain is not just a creature of Congress, but of the military. He understands and believes in a chain of command and of using it to reach goals. McCain would use and leverage power and a willingness to compromise to achieve policy ends. But Obama comes from a rather unique professional background for a presidential candidate: community organizing. Organizers at that level do not see themselves as or act as leaders, but as trainers of leaders and builders of coalitions that share concerns and goals. More importantly, organizers are less interested in a specific result than they are in building an organization or movement up to the point where it wields the power necessary to get results. Obama could be counted on to try to inspire Americans to not simply vote for a change in direction, but to recognize that lasting change comes from the political power they have collectively.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. And some people say he is an empty suit.
They talk from prejudice rather than reality.
He is the most multi-dimensioned candidate out there.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. He hired a talented and aggressive campaign manager.
So did George Bush, when you think about it.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. There's been ample evidence
that Obama has some real leadership skills. It's hardly as simple
as hiring a good campaign manager- though I understand why you're
invested in believing otherwise.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I haven't seen "the evidence." But if he's your candidate and you feel that way, enjoy. NT
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Watching his campaign should be enough "evidence" for anyone
Edited on Wed Apr-09-08 06:51 PM by madmunchie
He started being a "no name", with "no money" and "no backing" to move ahead of the "inevitable" nominee with a history breaking "war chest"...... what more "evidence" do you need?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Well, it may be for you. I see a lot of verbiage, few specifics, and
a fake accent. He's like Reagan, only younger. And not in a good way.

IMO.

YMV, and that's fine.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Then you're not paying attention
If you see few specifics, you need to read more.

Really.

There is no excuse for ignorance of any of the three candidates positons and policty platforms. All of their websites are replete with point by point solutions to many problems. Now, will they work or can they be impleneted? We can debate that, but to say there are few specifics is weak and frankly, uninformed.

Here ya go:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I've actually read his schtick. Where he's specific, he's not as good as Clinton.
And that is just plain fact.

See, I'm not uninformed. That's a lazy charge when someone doesn't see things your way.

I'm INFORMED and I still don't see him as the strongest candidate. Your mileage surely varies. Good for you.

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ut oh Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
52. 'And that is just plain fact'
Is quite a lie... You are presenting your opinion and nothing more...

Quite Rovian of you though..

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Rovian, my ass. That's the refuge of someone with no argument--calling DU members Republicans. NT
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EnemyOfTheocracy Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
64. yes he may not be "as good as clinton"
at dodging "sniper bullets" perhaps.



Bwhahaha!
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Texifornia Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
75. Not a fact...
an opinion.

They are different things.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #75
89. Certainly. The earth being round is an opinion as well. NT
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pauldg0 Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
69. Obama supporters ......
have no attention span.

Obama and Hillary...two people fricking f'ing up the Democratic party.

Your both something else...can't see the writing on the wall.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I wonder how much you have..
Edited on Wed Apr-09-08 08:37 PM by stillcool47
actually watched....to imply that Obama uses a 'fake' accent? MSNBC?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. MSNBC LOVES him. Why would they say that? I find MSNBC unwatchable.
He does a bad imitation of MLK.

I doubt he learned it in Hawaii.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. well that's why I was asking..
I was wondering if you'd watched the town-hall meetings on youtube? Or his speeches? Or what it is you are basing your 'accent' stuff on? If you don't watch the talk shows, where are you getting your accent from?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. They actually show those town halls and speeches on CSPAN, where
you don't have to suffer commercials, cut aways and commentators telling you what the candidates said. They let you watch and hear for yourself. It's rather refreshing.

I've seen some of his Sunday show appearances too.

It's like Madonna after she went to the UK...very off-putting.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I didn't realize that..
I'm not big on television, so I get my information off the internet. I have no idea what your 'accent' is all about..but I guess that's not surprising..considering.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #29
46. If you have a good connection you can see them on the computer as well.
http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=RWH&ShowVidNum=6&Rot_Cat_CD=RWH&Rot_HT=205&Rot_WD

It's called Road to the White House--thus the RWH (that's not Right Wing Hell) and it's the only way to watch politics. You make up your own mind, and some jerk isn't telling you what you should "think." The best part--you get the FULL EVENT, not clips, with no commercials or annoying "commentary:"

    RECENT PROGRAMS

    Programs 1-10 of 12
    RWH: Sen. Kennedy (D-MA), Chelsea Clinton & Sen. McCain (R-AZ)
    Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) & Chelsea Clinton speak at the Montgomery County, PA, Demcratic Committee Spring Reception. Kennedy speaks on behalf of Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), and later Chelsea Clinton speaks on behalf of her mother, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY). Also, Sen. John McCain stops at Episcopal High School in VA as part of his "Service to America" biography tour.
    4/6/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 24 min.

    RWH: Karl Rove & Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)
    Fmr. White House Dpty. Chief of Staff Karl Rove visits George Washington Univ. to address members of the Young America's Foundation on the 2008 presidential campaign. Also, Sen. McCain's (R-AZ) speech on foreign policy at the LA World Affairs Council.
    3/30/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 23 min.

    RWH: DNC Primary Calendar Meetings & Sen. Obama Speech on Race
    This weekend, a look back at two 2006 & 2007 DNC meeting's on the 2008 primary calendar. Also, a re-air of Sen. Barack Obama's (D-IL) speech on race, religion and politics.
    3/23/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 25 min.

    RWH: Bill Clinton & Michelle Obama Campaign in PA
    The spouses of the Democratic presidential candidates look ahead to Pennsylvania's primary on April 22. Fmr. Pres. Bill Clinton stumps for his wife in Erie, PA. This is followed by Michelle Obama campaigning for her husband at a rally at Villanova University.
    3/16/2008: PENNSYLVANIA: 1 hr. 24 min.

    RWH: Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) & Harvard Univ. Discussion
    Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) secures the Republican nomination and the endorsement of President Bush. He also holds a press conference with the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Mike Duncan. Then, a discussion on the Democratic Party's nominating system with James Roosevelt, co-chair of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, and Tom Fiedler of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.
    3/9/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 19 min.

    RWH: Campaign 2008 Events
    Gov. Kathleen Sebelius (D-KS) speaks at a campaign rally for Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) from Wooster, Ohio. Then, Fmr. Pres. Bill Clinton campaigns for Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) at Texas A&M Univ. in College Station, TX.
    3/2/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 22 min.

    RWH: Bill Clinton, Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) Campaign Events
    Former Pres. Bill Clinton campaigns for his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY), at a town hall meeting in Killeen, Texas. Also, Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) campaigns for Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) in Galveston, Texas.
    2/24/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 25 min.

    RWH: Fmr. DNC Chair Chuck Manatt & Sen. John McCain (R-AZ)
    C-SPAN interviews former DNC Chair Chuck Manatt, who instituted the Super Delegate system. He explains the system and applies it to the current presidential race. This is followed by presidential candidate Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) speaking in Milwaukee, WI.
    2/17/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 16 min.

    RWH: Sens. Barack Obama (D-IL) & Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
    This week on Road to the White House, watch as Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) participates in a rountable discussion at TC Williams High School in Alexandria, Virginia. Then, a camapign event with Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-IL) at Grace E. Metz Middle School in Manassas, Virginia.
    2/10/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 2 hr. 49 min.

    RWH: Roberta McCain & Mitt Romney
    This week on Road to the White House, an interview with Mrs. Roberta McCain in her Washington, DC, home about her life, her son John McCain, and his service in the Navy. She also discusses her son's 5 1/2 years as a POW in Vietnam, his political career, and his presidential bid.
    1/27/2008: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 24 min.

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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Thank you very much..
I myself watch a great deal of Senator Obama's speeches and Town Hall meetings..on the internet. I thought I made that clear. I was questioning your assumption that Senator Obama has a "Fake Accent". What are you using for a comparison if you listen to the Senator speak.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Listen to him in a sit-down interview, like the one he did for the Chicago papers,
and then listen to him making a speech. It's like chalk and cheese.
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. who doesn't sound different in conversation vs. speeches
What I can't stand is the Hillary permasmile that her handlers told her to use during the campaign. Now that is a put-on and hard to look at, especially when she smiles and waves from the balcony where MLK was shot.

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. Didn't take but a minute for you to pull out one of those cards, did it?
We could play the "photo without context" game all day--but I won't stoop that low.

Enjoy your stew.
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. it was an example of the fake permasmile, which I used to contrast against "accentgate"
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Yeah, and that was the only CARD in your deck. Sure. NT
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. no, but I have you to thank for making me think of it.....
Prior to Dec., when I was still a Hillary supporter, I had agonized over the fact that I had never considered Hillary to be a good public speaker...intelligent, yes....but uninspiring. But something changed. Not only has she been a fabulous speaker, but she never stops smiling. Since both her brilliant speaking and the constant smile are quite new, I can only assume that she worked on it.
By your standards, that would be inauthentic. I'm just a little unnerved by the smile these days.
And the site of MLK's death was the least appropriate and most memorable place where I'd seen her smile.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. "When I was still a Hillary supporter...."
You lost me right there. I couldn't figure out what that smell was, now I know.

If you actually were a "supporter," you'd never be behaving in this fashion. EVER.

Thanks for playing...please pick up your lovely consolation prize on your way out the door.
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. I'm sorry that you can't handle the truth
I didn't have a negative view of Hillary until recently.....and mind you, she will get my vote if she wins the nomination.

I won't vote with the level of excitement that I once would have had.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Bullshit is not a synonym for the truth, sorry.
Frankly, I disbelieve your "Come to Jesus" conversion. I've seen too many wide eyed newcomers with that same attitude, like a xerox copy, really, so I'm a bit jaded by protestations such as yours.

Go ahead, have the last word. ICCL.

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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. your cynicism explains why you are still with Hillary
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #81
98. Cynicism? Now THIS is cynicism!
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #51
83. sorry...I hear nothing different....
since the debate with Alan Keyes for his Senate seat. Weird.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. Oh please.
Msnbc begins it's day with "Morning Joe"--a 3 hour show--whom has admitted a love for Clinton. The next several hours of programming is sprinkled with Andrea Mitchell who clearly want to sustain the status quo (read Hillary Clinton). Then there is Hardball, who is clearly impressed by Obama, but Matthews as a wonk is always open to discussion. Then David Gregory's show, The Race to the White House whose panel only leans "left" enough to reach Clinton. Tonight's panel only "Democrat" was Harold Ford Jr., the guy who is the head of the DLC, the think tank created and backed by the Clintons to form their DC power base, the same group that has worked to undermine the Democratic Party and it's principles. Then it's Olbermann, who has been a stall-worth in defending democratic principles and values (read the Constitution),but has recently been critical of Clinton because of the harm that she has been doing to the party, and ultimately the chance to take this nation back from the fascists. Then Dan Abrams, who has been critical of Clinton, but then again he is critical of most people.

So out of an entire day of programming, there are 3 hours that may be critical of your candidate and you find the entire network worthy of your dismissal? I have read your posts for several years, and you had in the past sounded much more logical in your approach than this.

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. Wow, you don't let facts get in your way at ALL, do you?
Scarborough despises Clinton--what, you never got the memo?
http://www.jossip.com/is-joe-scarborough-the-scariest-thing-for-hillary-clinton-on-msnbc-20080402/
http://mediamatters.org/items/200801270004
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15347908/

From the first cite: Despite David Shuster’s pimping comments, Chris Matthews’ self-evident Obamamania, and Keith Olbermann’s growing disdain for the former First Lady, it’s Morning Joe’s anchor who deserves the most criticism. So argues the Village Voice’s Wayne Barrett, who points to Joe Scarborough’s past – as a Republican congressman and operative – as a lifetime Clinton hater. So even though Hillary volunteers to appear on the A.M. show, as she did March 5 after sweeping Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island, it might not be wise to label the parties as allies

Scarborough’s disdain for Bill Clinton has actually been the single constant in his political life. According to his own memoir, when Scarborough started as an unknown, running for Congress in 1993, people were slamming doors in his face until he learned to quickly mutter the word “Clinton.” Once he did, doors “flew open again,” he wrote, “and the newly engaged Scarborough supporter said, ‘I hate the bastard. Gimme your card.’ Just like that, a new political marketing strategy was born.”

Craig Crawford, who is a former Orlando Sentinel reporter, says he met Scarborough at this time and had been told that Republicans called him “our Bill Clinton”—a reference to Scarborough’s engaging Southern style, not his politics.

Once Scarborough was in Washington and began doing the talk-show circuit blasting Clinton, a White House aide bumped into him on Capitol Hill and told him that the president hated his guts—a feeling he described as “mutual” in his book. “I can’t even look at the man’s face on TV,” Scarborough told his staff. The ever-flexible Scarborough now likes to say that he’s “spent the past five or six years second-guessing myself on whether I was unfair to Bill Clinton in the 1990s, why he bothered me the way he did,” and insists that he “tries to be positive” about him. He says that he voted for only two of the four impeachment counts against Clinton while in Congress, though he made regular appearances on the talk-show circuit, including Fox News’ Hannity & Colmes, to condemn the then president.

Pressed about his continued contempt for Clinton, Scarborough shifts to claiming how much he likes Hillary. But confronted with one of his January quotes—when he called her “disoriented” for “saying Martin Luther King wasn’t responsible for the Civil Rights Act”—he smiles, acknowledging the distortion of her words, and says: “You got me there.” In fact, he often lumps Bill and Hillary together—as in “the Clintons want the issue to be race”—just like many other commentators do.


You don't know your own history, you're condemned to repeat it. "Morning Joe" didn't fall out of a tree. He came up from Florida on the "Get Bill Clinton" Newt Gingrich wave.

:eyes:
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
37. Funny, he talks more like my white grandma...
Tell me all about how we talk here.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. So did MLK, apparently.
The man is trying desperately to imitate Martin. It's OBVIOUS. And entirely unsubtle.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. if it's fake, what does his real accent sound like?
do you have an example?
:shrug:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. Look for his interview with the Chicago papers. Compare and contrast. NT
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EnemyOfTheocracy Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
65. kind of how hillary faked an accent
from town to town in the early primary season?
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. fake accent? like this one?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
44. She put that ON. It was obvious she put that on. She doesn't use it 24/7, now, does she, with
occasional "slips" now? Why no--she did that accent, poorly, for a QUOTE. How pathetic that you try to compare the two.

To conflate a little hyperbolic acting within a speech to someone who fakes their accent every time they get in front of a podium (sort of like someone who holds the Presidency NOW, come to think of it) is a bit of a bridge too far.

He's like Madonna. Or the Connecticut cowboy.

Fake accent. Fake person.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. She puts it on when it suits her audience
You don't think that's fake? The "quoted" accent was cringeworthy PAINFUL caricature. But here are some other clips when she wasn't "quoting" -- just pandering to a southern audience.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9TQq0C3Ac
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bvlr0BNgWW0
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. That is a taffy pull of a stretch. "Putting it on" to make a point isn't the
same as "putting it on" every SINGLE time one speaks in public, with all the "gonnas" and "wannas"--I'm sure he does his Punahou English teacher proud with that. Sorta like Phillips/Yale/Harvard Bush does.

But whatever.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #54
82. Errr... if Obama "puts it on" EVERY SINGLE TIME
he speaks in public, maybe that's his REAL voice?!

But adopting a southern accent just in front of southern people is "making a point"?

Yeah, whatever!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Every time he gives a SPEECH. His interview voice is quite different.
It's noticeable.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. Everyone, including Hilliary, has a different speech voice.
Obama may change his inflections, cadence, volume - as does everyone - but he does not affect an ACCENT any different than normal. He does not assume a drawl just for certain audiences, as Hilliary does. As you said, he sounds the same every time he gives a speech.

If you think he affects an accent just at certain times for certain audiences, please provide a link to video. Then explain why when Hilliary "sniper fire" Clinton does her drawling, it's "to make a point," but Obama is being a fake if he does the same.

You're reaching.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. They don't change their frigging accent. It's a long enough stretch from
Hawaii to Chicago, that little "By Way of Birmingham" twist is what is UNBELIEVABLE. Unless we're missing part of the Anointed One's resume?

He's not Martin. He tries to sound like him, though.

Look at every speech he's ever done, if you need a link. It's the same wanna/gonna bullshit in every single one. All he needs is a few "mountaintop" phrases, and he's home free.

And "there ya go again" (you should relate to the Reagan ref; after all Obama is so like him) pulling in Clinton, as if that's apropos of anything.

The subject is Obama's fake accent. Not any other politician, not any other issue.

I'm not reaching--you are. And it's obvious when you have to pull out the 'sniper' card.

Expected, though! :hi:
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. "wanna/gonna" is an ACCENT?
Sometimes I say "want to," sometimes I say "wanna" -- but I don't affect a southern drawl in either case.

And yes, it's appropriate to reference Hilliary to show your hypocrisy --that you castigate Obama for something she is DEMONSTRABLY guilty of, while providing no examples to support your contention that Obama puts on a fake accent.

But hey, keep digging yourself into a hole with weak, unsupported statements! Hilliary "sniper-gate" Clinton would be proud.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Well, YOU don't affect a southern drawl. Someone--and I am not talking about Clinton--does.
Not for a quote in a speech, for an entire speech. I'm not digging, I'm making plain what you refuse to see.

Whatever, glue those blinders on, so you don't have to think about where you're headed!

:hi:
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. I gave you 2 links to Clinton clips where she was drawling
and she wasn't quoting anyone. You can't come up with one clip of Obama. But if, as you say, he does it in EVERY speech, then I'd say it was his normal speech voice -- unlike Hilliary who only does it when she's pandering to southerners.

I'm finished with this discussion. You've had plenty of other comments along the same lines of mine. Buh-bye.

Ignore.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. Listen to his private talk with the billionaire donors if you want his REAL accent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-exclusive-audio-on_b_96333.html

Any other stump speech is the "fake" accent. Turn on MS-OBAMA, they run them in heavy rotation.

The private billionaire speech, and the stump speeches sound like they're coming out of two completely different people.

Thought you were a real fan, and you'd heard all his speeches, and knew where to find his Chicago newspaper interview. Guess you're just "on the team" and not delving too deeply except to play defense, eh?

Oh, thanks for the BUH-BYE, ignore, too.

That's what your crowd does when they lose their game. My feelings aren't hurt at all, either. You're one less to deal with, is all.

Flick!
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. You haven't seen it because you don't look.
I won't try to change your mind or show the evidence because why bother.
You could watch his town hall meetings and get a clue from that.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
45. I DID, though. And I do. And I am unmoved. Sorry I won't be touched by your angel.
I've watched most of his appearances that have appeared on CSPAN, and that IS most of his appearances.

As I said upthread.

He's a bullshitter. Like Reagan. A charmer, but we've had enough charm, IMO.
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EnemyOfTheocracy Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. your a naysaying contrarian
what does hillary bring to the table?
oratory? policy? judgement?
no.
she also hired a scum bag to manage her campaign.
so there is another blow against her judgement.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Guess that's Hillary excuse
Edited on Wed Apr-09-08 08:08 PM by merh
she didn't. :eyes:


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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. It's true--her team isn't as aggressive as his, and they're more traditional in their outreach as
well.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. They combine old fashioned shoe leather with mousepads
They have succeeded against a candidate who doesn't have the faintest clue about the Internet.
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JBShakes Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
60. Sigh...
Certainly gotta love somebody who talks about how much better their candidate is on the "specifics", and then critiques the other candidate's "phony accent".

Sigh...even if you buy into the idea that Senator Clinton's policy positions are better than Senator Obama's, can't you at least acknowledge the fact that the vast difference in the way these two campaigns are actually RUN (mounting campaign debts, stiffing small businesses, Mark Penn being paid to lobby for a position Senator Clinton is opposed to, etc.) might suggest something about how these two might effectively IMPLEMENT their policies? You know, kinda like how Senator Clinton's wonderful healthcare plan went all Hindenberg in the 90's?

Sorry, or is that too specific and policy oriented for you? Would you like me to gush now about how Senator Obama's a "unifier", and let you continue your asinine meme that anybody who's supporting Senator Obama is part of the "cult"?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. Welcome to DU, again, most likely.
Sigh...you're such an expert on what people think...sigh.
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JBShakes Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #67
90. Fine...
So give me some examples of the "superiority" of her specifics. Don't give me this "empty suit" bullshit, or tell me about a "fake accent". Elizabeth Edwards gave some specifics about why she prefers Hillary's healthcare plan over Obama's - it was something I had to think about, and while I understand where she's coming from, I disagree with the idea of mandates being the key to lowering costs - because a vigorous, AFFORDABLE public option would actually have a free-market effect of FORCING big healthcare providers to be more efficient and less profit-oriented, or otherwise their customers will leave for the public option.

So give me some specifics. TELL me what you've got that makes your candidate superior. Is Hillary's "superiority" on foreign policy based on her ability to lie glibly about dodging sniper fire? Actually CITE some specifics, otherwise your "specifics" rhetoric is just as empty as the rhetoric you insist Senator Obama is all about.

Or can't you handle having an argument based on facts?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. No, we've had this conversation before. You keep coming back under a new name.
It's tiresome. You obviously know my views quite well, so why are you asking? JBShakes, indeed.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. And HRC has the legendary Bill Clinton campaigning for her. To no avail
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
86. So what about this........................
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. he's an empty suit, filled only by hot air. in your heart, you know it's true. nt
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. In my heart, I know you are mistaken.
Deeply.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Sure. That's why he's far surpassed your gal in his ground game,
organization, fundraising, attracting crowds, etc. Seems like your blinders must be working. :thumbsup:
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. I used to think that as well
The more I heard him speak, the more I realized how wrong my initial impression was.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. That "difference" is very much a part of his appeal.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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Symarip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. I really do think he took Dean's 50 state strategy
And molded it to fit his message. It's beyond brilliant and (pause for shock) it's winning.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Can't confirm whether or not BO got his stuhTeejury from Dean but seeing that they are very similar
...and BO is whoopin some ass it looks like Deans strategy is confirmed.

BO is correct in saying we have more in common then we have in differences.
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chieftain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. K & R
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. Big K & R !!!
:bounce::kick::bounce:
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. k/r
yup yup
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. You mean like trying to form a new "Rainbow coalition?"
Jesse was very successful at doing it and he didn't have the benefit of a fawning media. In fact, just the opposite. But Jesse actually received more of the vote than did Perot. History is about to repeat in the GE.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. You mean because he is black?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. The Rainbow Coalition was derailed by being tied to closely--
--to the presidential aspirations of a single man. I think in the Internet age, Obama's supporters may very well move beyond and ahead of him.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. very well written, and thanks for posting.....nt
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'll say. He's founded a cottage industry in personifying Chauncey Gardner.
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Dammit Ann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. Oh. My. GOD.
you are joking, I hope.
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jpertello Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
59. GW BUSH IS THE REAL CHAUNCEY GARDNER
I had to reply to your Chauncey Gardner remark since you're referencing my favorite book and movie, "Being There". The allusions to what Chauncey is are more in line with a GW Bush type- A profoundly retarded empty suit whom one can project any sort of wisdom and profundity upon.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-09-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. Obama is a phenom and Dems would have been fools not to embrace that gift.
He will make a spectacular president.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
35. kick
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atal Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
39. K & R
As president, he'll need to keep his supporters mobilized: It will take a grass-roots movement, breathing down Congress's neck, to pass universal health care," Beinart writes.



I couldn't agree more.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
74. YES YES YES
I concur!

Let's get HR 676 resurrected
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
41. Philosophical queston: where did he learn to campaign?
As a TV engineer, I've seen a lot of campaign commercials over the years. For the most part they fall into predictable patterns. They are the "time-tested way" to run an electoral campaign.

Simply saying that Obama learned this in community campaigning isn't enough. There are others who have done this; I think of the former inspirational speaker (now cheap commercial pitchman) Les Brown, who spoke about his door-to-door campaigns.

It seems to me that the Obama campaign is a new operating procedure for campaigning than anything I've seen. And it is successful against Clinton because of that novelty. There must be something else, and I guess we won't know until the election is over and the analysts have done their work what it is.

Whatever it is, though, it's refreshing and inspirational.
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cseper Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
53. Something different?
No, Obama want us to unite, if we would tell the truth, his brand of unity has divided the Democratic Party, so much that, McCain is now favored to win the Presidency! Four more years of Bush's policy, How sad!
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Utopian Leftist Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
57. Organizing
"More importantly, organizers are less interested in a specific result than they are in building an organization or movement up to the point where it wields the power necessary to get results. Obama could be counted on to try to inspire Americans to not simply vote for a change in direction, but to recognize that lasting change comes from the political power they have collectively."

This is what I have suspected for a long time, but been unable to articulate because I didn't know enough about it: that an organizing background goes a long way to explain Obama's impressive grass-roots capabilities. Whereas previous black leaders such as Jesse Jackson have been agitators, Obama's strength appears to be diplomatic and cooperative. Yet his positions don't shift with the political winds the way Bill Clinton's did. And people will trust him more because he doesn't leave us out of the process of decision making and policy formulation (as Hillary Clinton did when working for healthcare reform). He listens to our needs and helps us to understand what is possible.

Obama is a true voice of the people!
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
61. While eveybody is looking at the primary the general is acquiring troops for the GE
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
63. It is impossible not to be inspired by Obama.
K&R! :kick:
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pauldg0 Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. Give me a fricken break.............
....he's an empty suit and I won't vote for him.

This is blunt, but he appeals to the naive young !!
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. by "naive young" , you mean those who don't like to be lied to?
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. If Obama is the Democratic nominee, I hope you will change your mind.
McCain is wrong about everything and I'm sure you don't want to enable old Methuselah, do you? Are you sure he doesn't have your respect because bowling is not his game?
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leaningprog Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
79. yes we can see there is something different
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 05:30 PM by leaningprog
If we listen to our rhetoric we find the answer. We want a candidate
who can throw a punch, take a hit, crush the competitor, slash and
burn the opposition, and who is sharp enough to have the goods on
every rival and has a plan to back them down or destroy them
if they don't. Except when one of these candidates wins, and we
see that these skills make them permanently into a ruthless and
iconoclastic ruler. You can control with these skills but you can't
lead. This is why you are Commander in Chief more than you are
President. This is why Hillary made up HER mind on what we needed
for health care and went into closed session until it could be
forced on her enemies that opposed her plan. This is exactly what
Dick Cheney did on energy policy, with the exact same results.
In both cases, from everything I have read both individuals are
convinced that a better plan rather than a better approach was
the limiting factor. They are top down rulers and need copious
amounts of power to ply their craft.

Obama is attempting to form a broad base in the electorate and
have it be his mandate to lead instead of rule. This by it's
nature will entail that he forms a consensus approach to government
in order to lead the nation. It is a bottom up approach. What is
strange is that all politicians explain themselves as being this
way, but the vast majority are not at all. This is why he seems
so different. He is attempting to follow the rules laid down in
Philadelphia 232 years ago for leading this nation as President.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
85. All I know is that I see a metric butt ton of "Ignored" spam on this thread.
Geezus.

Good OP.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
92. k&r
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Speakingtruth Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
96. His speaking skills?
Those skills were nowhere to be found in San Francisco.
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