Help me out...I think I can convert someone

[Arkana]

I have a friend who, although she is working for one of our Dem state senators, is a Repuke and donates to the RNC.

BUT...

I believe she can see the light. She seems to only be a Republican because of the religious issues...she told me that Bush was getting her vote because "he uses his religion as a basis for decisions." Scary, yes, but also uninformed.

I asked if she was still going to vote for him about a week after the Prisongate scandal broke, and her resolve is wavering. She said she would "probably vote Bush, cause at least he doesn't flip-flop." Classic spin.

Do you think I can convert her, and if so, HOW????

[shraby]

1. Bush has a bunch of

flip flops.
No 9/11 commission - has 9/11 commission
Won't testify - testifies
Condi can't testify under oath - Condi testifies under oath

I'm sure you can think of more.

[Arkana]

3. Oh dear

I think I've lost her...she seems to be "averse to arguing, cause she went to UMass Amherst." This is classic Repig denial.

[ogminlo]

2. It would take measures straight out of Clockwork Orange

but I think it's possible. It would be very difficult to turn her world upside down (expose the truth about G. W. "Lucifer" Bush).

[TiredTexan]

4. The most effective way I have found is to

loan co-workers books on CD, including the Price of Loyalty, and Against All Enemies. I've converted 3 coworkers this way, and one of them then converted his wife and adult daughter, and is now working on his brother. I've found it so effective, I have a cache of about 10 books on CD, including House of Bush, House of Saud, Sleeping with the Devil, the Book on Bush, Bushwacked, The Great Unraveling, etc. I constantly troll for the unsuspecting to loan them out to. It's very fulfilling to watch the dawning recognition in someone's eyes when they begin to realize they've been duped.

I also converted one former military guy by giving him every article I could find on what Bush was secretly doing to undermine and cut funding to the military and veterans. It made him so mad, he was open to hearing about other things so I started selectively giving him other types of articles. Now, when I don't give him any in a while, he gripes at me.

Because your friend is religious, look for articles where religious people talk about how Bush is not following the Bible. Also try to give her articles written by other republicans that have converted. I know there are several websites devoted to Liberal Christians, so google those, and they'll be a bunch of articles that might help you.

If she has other interests, try to find articles that relate to that interest and this administration. If she has kids, find the ones about education, for example. The main thing is to find ways to convey information, disinterested information, so that it is not about you converting her, but rather about simple free flow of information.

My worst failures occur when I try to convince someone that they are wrong by talking or arguing about politics. Usually people either get mad, or tune me out. It just hasn't proven effective to talk about politics, at least until a baseline of agreement and trust is already established. Carefully chosen articles and books seem establish that baseline because they convey in an objective fashion things that people simply don't want to believe if they are coming out of my mouth. Only after some common ground and trust is established does the talking begin, usually as the person begins asking a lot of questions. I try to find articles to answer the questions so that they are not just hearing my opinions.

That's my formula for what its worth. It certainly doesn't work on everyone, but it has worked on some. Good Luck.

[Radical Activist]

5. Ask her what Bush has actually DONE that reflects christian values

Bush talks about values a lot, but its only talk. Bush manipulates evangelicals by talking about abortion and gay rights etc. but what has he actually done?

He supported a constitutional amendement to ban same-sex marriage because he knows that has to come from Congress and that it will never happen. It allows him to sound protestant without actually doing anything.

Its the new Southern Strategy. Repubs can't use racism to win the south so they manipulate the religious beliefs of evangelicals. Ask your friend if she cares more about the gay couple down the street screwing eachother or about George Bush screwing her.

[alcuno]

6. No nation with nukes should EVER have an apocalyptic president.

There is too much of a possibility for that individual to believe they are playing a part in the Book of Revelations; like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Do you really want someone who believes in armageddon to have control of nuclear weapons? Just a bad, bad, bad idea.

[Only Me]

7. I believe...

It was the International Christian Coalition that sent out a statement, it was on Yahoo news acouple weeks ago, as well as the Catholic church, and many other Christian churches at different times, have made it very clear that they do not approve of Bushes use of Christianity as the excuse for his actions.

Contrary to what your friend believes, the majority of the Christian world is against the mix of church and state, as well, the use of violence and killing under the Christian name.

The Christian community, has been since Jesus's time, about our right to make choices for ourselves. No one has the right to take away our freedom of choice, He died for it. If we are wrong, it is our sin to bear not George Bushes or hers.


Tell her... when this country collapses under George W. Bush leadership, she won't have to worry about that anymore. Because there will be new worries, like starvation, ciaos in the streets, people killing people over food. Sound out there, it's not it's what happened during the Depression. And history does tend to repeat it's self.

[NMDemDist2]

8. here is a thread that might help

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=110x5900

[oscar111]

9. homelessness,Bush and Jesus: Lincoln

Bush uses relig as a basis?
Bush's new budget plan cuts housing vouchers, will evict 250 000 into living on the sidewalk. "what would Jesus do? - in Jesus' budget plan? "

/// Read Mark 10:21 for jesus quote: "sell all, give the money to the poor." Totally antiRepub and antiBush. Also: no Bush plan to end the 12 million hungry people problem. Would Jesus also just be a bystander? Hardly.

//FALSE FRONT is the pattern to detect in seeing Bush types.
MORE INFO

The Yahoo Group.. try googling this: liberalslikejesus Well-educated forum posts.


FLIP FLOPS: "i change my position because i always try to know more today than i did yesterday" Lincoln. Flip flops are a sign of wisdom. Constancy is to be frozen in a child's mind. Or an adolescent's. Or a twentysomething's. Or a thirtysomething's. Or..

///No human is ever perfect, so change.. flipflops... are part of growing wisdom.

[Kipepeo]

10. religion

I like what others have said here about pointing out that Bush does NOT base his decisions on religion (which I think would be scary for a president to do anyway) but only PRETENDS to do so. He panders to christian conservatives but he is not "of christ." He can't recall passages of the bible he claimed to study for years, he believes in the death penalty and as gov. of texas was responsible for people's deaths. He laughed at Carla Faye Tucker and made fun of her plea for her life (and she was supposedly converted in prison and had been leading an exemplary christian life for years. She was being supported by Pat Robertson of all people).

Jesus was about helping the poor, the sick, the outcast....Bush doesn't do shit for any of those groups of people...he just makes more of them.