Why Hillary's staying in (my husband's theory)

[CoffeeCat]

This is why my husband believes that Hillary will stay in until the convention, even
as it becomes increasingly clear that she can't win. This theory may not be news to
many of you, but it was something I hadn't considered, as much as I just assumed she
was being reckless or trying to destroy Obama and prop up McCain.

My husband said that Hillary will continue on, fighting and winning votes--because she
is "in it to win it" and if she can't have the Presidency, she'll demand the vp slot.
According to hubby, she knows she's not going to be the nominee, but if she continues
and she's still garnering a good chunk of the vote, she and her rich backers and other
party heavyweights will force Obama to put her on the ticket.

She'll carry with her to the convention her arguments, "I won bigger states", "I won states
with the most electoral votes" and she won't back down. She'll make it appear as if the
only way to settle this is to have Obama pick her as vp.

She clearly understands by now, that Obama won't pick her, and she's orchestrating a scenario
in which he will have not choice, but to select her.

What do you think of this? Anyone else think that this is what Hillary is doing?

[saltpoint]

1. I hope it isn't. Because most 4-year olds should know better.

If she wants a crack at the action in other Democratic doings, she needs to show QUITE a bit more collaborative spirit.

[flor de jasmim]

3. And grace under pressure.

[CoffeeCat]

8. I agree with you...

...it's a theory that makes me disgusted and nervous.

My husband pointed out that Dem party leaders think this as well. Pelosi went out of
her way to clearly state that, "...the dream ticket just isn't possible. It's not
going to happen."

Pelosi made those comments when Clinton was in Mississippi and constantly talking about
that 'dream ticket'. Hubby says Pelosi's statements were letting Clinton know that they
weren't going to force that on Obama, and they would back him if he didn't put her on.

In effect, they were telling Clinton to face reality and not hold out hope that you'll
have the vp slot---cuz the Speaker of the House (and others) won't lobby Obama to do that.

[saltpoint]

10. Yes. I think Obama would be able to help the party down-ballot with

any number of other better picks.

[Road Scholar]

42. At least I agree that she knows she can't win but..

I think she's holding on for purely selfish reasons.This would not only be at the expense of the Democratic party but the election itself.And she knows that. Scary. She's a giant disappointment.

[Saturday]

2. I don't think she wants the vp slot.

I think she thinks she can still win. She doesn't have the delegate count but neither does Obama. So why not stay in till the votes are counted?

[TheDebbieDee]

24. I think she IS willing to settle for the VP slot........

I can't prove it - it's pure speculation on my part, but I think she's holding out for a place on the ticket.

[dkf]

4. Who would want such a backstabber as VP?

That would be crazy.

[Angela Shelley]

5. I think that she truly believes that she will win the nomination.

She appeared before many faces and many cameras and talked of being under "sniper fire".
She didn´t think that maybe it wasn´t true, or that maybe someone would look into the details.

She lives in her own world, and in her world, she will win the nomination.

[LisaL]

6. No, I don't buy it. I don't think she wants to be a VP.

[HereSince1628]

7. IMO, she's begun running for 2012

Making sure there isn't a Democratic incumbent to compete with in 2011 is a part of the strategy.

[faithfulcitizen]

27. Me too, if she can't have it she wants McCain so she can will in 2012.

but she still thinks it's hers if she can sling enough mud.

[Mme. Defarge]

46. I think that was her back-up strategy ...

and she has blown it.

[greguganus]

53. After all this crap, I wouldn't support her for town drunk. People will not forget this shit . n/t

[olkaz]

9. I think she's sticking around waiting for Obama to screw up somehow and become unelectable

She doesn't have to stick around until the convention, just until they can put the billy club to his knee.

I pray we are free of the Clintons sooner rather than later. I'm sure the majority of the superdelegates are thinking the same thing.

[CreekDog]

59. but it's not as if she isn't screwing up and making herself unelectable

while she is waiting for Barack to do the same.

goofy strategy.

[susankh4]

11. Joe Scarborough has a better theory.

And, tho he has been hard on Hillary at times.... Taylor Marsh is giving him kudos for this call:

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27298

[Cosmocat]

19. OH, for CHRIST sake ...

After 15 years of unmitigated HATRED and partisanship toward the Clinton's JOE SCARBOROUGH now "admires" Hillary ???

You BELIEVE that ???

Seriously ...

Dude, you can SO see it in the way he is carrying himself, he is doing what half the right wing propogandists are doing ... They see that Hill is not going to WIN the nomination and are GLEEFULLY trying to stoke this thing so it continues to tear the party down ...

If you can't see the motives he has on this, and again, it is CLEAR as day the way he smirks when he does it, you are in the same fantasy land that Hill was in when she told her Bosnia story ...

[susankh4]

23. Dude?

That's ma'am to you.

[CoffeeCat]

32. Joe Scarborough's "theory"

...was based on lambasting Wolfe for saying "we."

The way TaylorMarsh set up that video piece, I was prepared to see Wolfe handed
his ass on a paper plate.

Not only did no such thing happen, but Scarborough bounced on Wolfe for saying, "We"
when Wolfe said, "that is how WE decide elections."

Clearly, that "we" was referencing how the people decide the process. He wasn't
referring to a group of people that included himself.

I like Joe Scarborough. I think he is basically a pretty even-handed person. I
really enjoyed him on Bill Mahr's show a few weeks ago.

However, this time--he based an entire rant on an incorrect underlying supposition.

That was obvious. "We" referred to the powers that be. No big deal. It's similar
to saying, "We have laws in this country" or "We buy gas guzzlers, despite the high
price of gas."

Joe popped a few neurons based on nothing, in my opinion.

[susankh4]

33. Good assessment

tho I don't entirely concur.

I think Joe wants to position himself as one of the few who are not caught up in the Obamania. He wants to be a credible voice in the wilderness. And equal opportunity "disser" if you will.

And, let's face it. Most people do think the media has too much say in the political process. So Wolfe's "how we decide elections" comment needed to be questioned.

Applause for Joe on this one!:applause:

(Tho, like Taylor, I normally don't care for him much.)

[dionysus]

38. hahahahahahahahahahahaha

joe and taylor marsh, what pillars of the community...

:rofl:

[monmouth]

12. She, nor her backers are in a position to "demand" anything. Obama

will not, under any circumstances I can think of, ask her to be his VP. As was stated last night on numerous shows, she could trust him but he would need a food taster. Not gonna happen IMHO...

[Me.]

13. I Think It's Because She's A Woman "Scorned"

Back when it was inevitable it was a match made in heaven and now she's getting thrown over for Obama. I think she's furious and determined to show everybody and if she can't do that at the very least she'll make everyone pay.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

56. whew... this fits my thoughts exactly. I understand this view is sexist, but that's what I see. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Facts

1)The chances of Hillary Clinton wresting the nomination are remote.

2) Up to forty percent of Hillary Clinton supporters have indicated they will vote for John McCain, vote independent, or not vote at all.

3) If fact two is correct there is little chance that Senator Obama can win the presidency with that many defections. There are just not enough independents and Republican switchers.


What do I infer from those facts?

I infer that the only ticket that has a shot at winning is a unity ticket or a ticket with neither of them on it, i.e. a compromise candidate...

This is a fine mess...

[niceypoo]

17. Clinton supporters say they will not vote for Obama because...

...Obama supporters do nothing to bring them into the fold. The negative reinforcement we have seen thus far, from Obama and his supporters, is repelling Hillary supporters instead of attracting them.

It's like a guy believing that if he slaps a girl around enough, she will want go out with him.

[k8conant]

21. NO! SHE believes that if SHE slaps HIM around enough, HE will want HER

It won't work that way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. It Doesn't Really Matter

He can not win without her supporters...

The math doesn't work...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. It Is What It Is

If Senator Obama can not bring the lion's share of Hillary Clinton's supporters into his fold he can not win the election no matter how much he and his supporters wish it was so...

The laws of math and science are immutable...

I don't think it has fully dawned on the punditocracy yet the chasm that exists in the Democratic party... The Democratic party is not a monolith... It is a collection of interest groups,some with conflicting interests, that is held together by spit and bailing wire... This race has exposed the fissures between these groups...

[niceypoo]

31. Obama needs to court Hillary's supporters...

Instead of doing his damnest to repell them, by talking about POLICY, which thus far he refuses to do.

His supporters obsession with the Clintons is a reflection of Obamas failure to define himself politically.

[niceypoo]

15. She is staying in because roughly half of Democrats want her in

They keep voting for her in primaries......damn democracy keeps messing up Obama's plans!!

[Hepburn]

36. Are you sure those voters are not the Repukes who are following...

...the marching orders from El Rushbo?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. I Thought Limbaugh Was Instructing Them How To Vote Not How To Answer Pollsters

Gawd, we give that fat drug addled bastard way too much credit...

[k8conant]

16. Hillary Clinton would have had a much better shot at VP if she hadn't

started acting so petulant and bitter and tearing down Obama.

[niceypoo]

18. Obama has been doing nothing but tearing down the Clintons for months

His whole campaign is based on it, it trumps policy.

[olkaz]

20. I thought all he talked about was hope?

Didn't you guys say he was full of it, and was just being a motivational speaker?

"Obama has been doing nothing but tearing down the Clintons for months"

So what was he doing then?

[IsItJustMe]

22. To much water has passed under that bridge. It would not help the Dem party win, therefore, it wont

happen. Just my opinion.

[HereSince1628]

30. It's not the amount of water that's gone under the bridge

it's the quality. Way too much of the water has run red with blood.

[Skwmom]

25. Trying to force herself on the ticket OR act like she wants on the ticket

so that she can cry to her supporters and get them to vote for McCain.

But she could also still be trying for the nomination by having the Democratic superdelegate primary in June (hoping with 5 months until Nov they will win back the voters, though good luck with that). The whole VP angle could be her back-up plan.

[UALRBSofL]

29. Here is the fact of the matter

Because she will be very close to Obama one way or the other going into the convention the superdelegates can endorse her instead of Obama. There is no rules or policy that states they have to pick the person with the most seated delegates or popular vote. If that were the case they wouldn't need superdelegates. So, she can make an argument she is more electable, she carried the democratic voting states where Obama carried the republican. It's a slim possibility but if you have a chance, no matter how big or small, she will stay in.

[grantcart]

34. HRC is sitting on 20-30 million of GE funds.

If she is the VP candidate she will have to use these funds for the general election

If she is not she can fold them into her PAC and use them for future campaigning.


She does not want to be VP

[UALRBSofL]

35. I wondered what they did with the left over money.

That's a lot to save for future campaigns.

[grantcart]

37. I am not 100% sure about the above but I have emailed several

lawyers that are experts of FEC matters and they emailed back and said they weren't sure (about her having to use her GE funds if she is VP)

[backscatter712]

39. You sure that Wrath of Khan photochop I did isn't an apt comparison?

The HillaryIs44 crowd took it kind of personal...

[ginnyinWI]

40. If Obama were white and an insider, I think she'd be gone by now.

I think she continues to feel that because he's black she can use that against him and turn people away from him. She would never admit it, but she knows that his position is more precarious because of it. And the fact that he's a relative newcomer to Washington and she feels she has institutional connections she can rely on.

Same thing with TV media--they somehow just can't believe that an African American is getting all this support. They think it's all going to collapse like a hot air balloon and that HRC will then be the only one left standing. This was the understood scenario a year ago and they just can't accept that it might not turn out that way. They know how to cover the Clintons--Obama wouldn't be as easy. They don't know him and don't know how to cover an African American frontrunner.

If the media would just stop propping HRC up she'd be the one deflating like a grounded hot air balloon. As it is, she looks at her money, her connections and the coverage she is able to get and figures she's still got a good shot even though she hasn't got the math on her side.

Out here in the real world, Obama is getting the people's support. I hope it's enough--hope the power of the people will be able to defeat Big Media and the Beltway this time.

[WHAT]

58. I agree with your characterizations...

especially the media.

I could see it on their faces...

[crispini]

41. Why would she want to be VP?

She's already done that. :D

[phrigndumass]

43. Maybe VP is the only way to keep the big money interests appeased?

The pro-dem big money folks are terrified of the fact that the Obama campaign has raised money and is winning without their help. A Clinton VP slot would guarantee them access.

What they might not realize, though, that if their cause is worthy, an Obama presidency would help them, too.

[Emillereid]

45. I am not sure she would bring any advantage to the ticket, especially after the

revelations about all her bald-faced lies. Her Bosnia claims are going to be played in an endless loop by the repukes and right now I think she would be a drag on the ticket. It's one thing for someone associated with the campaign to say something controversial, but when the principle is caught in such a whopper - it's going to have legs. Besides democrats can handily win New York and usually a VP is selected to carry a state that might be problematic.

Personally I think she's trying to wreck it for Obama so he will lose in November and then she'll try again in 2012. Here's the logic - if I can't have it then I don't want Obama to have it either because he might get two terms. Given McCain's age it's unlikely he'll go two terms, and in 2012 I'll only be 64 and can still run.

Yes, Virginia, this woman really would prefer the party to go down, and with it the country, for the sake of eventually getting the prize.

I sure hope the party heavy-weights weigh in SOON!!!

[Mme. Defarge]

47. I can't imagine her ego

allowing that to happen. Plus, she would have no credibility after the way she has trashed Obama in favor of McCain.

Unless, of course, her role model for the VP is Cheney.

[Independent-Voter]

48. I think she's just milking her older, low-educated base for all it's worth. Got to pay the bills now

[polichick]

49. I think she knows he won't choose her, and she's hoping to ruin his chances...

...so she can run in 2012.

[Hawkowl]

50. Good theory

I think your hubby may be correct. If this is the case, it makes absolutely no sense for her to continue to throw "the kitchen sink" at Obama and expect him to kiss and make up at the end. However, from a psychological viewpoint, maybe this is how she conducts her personal relationships and is simply repeating her own cycle of behavior on a different person? Viewed in this context, her irrational attacks make a perverted sense.

[grassfed]

51. She was promised the presidency to cooperate during Lewinsky

by power brokers who didn't see Obama coming. She is tied to a status quo of new money who take their clout for granted - they are also deeply linked to sub-prime/hedge funds crisis and are counting on her help.

[Angela Shelley]

52. And what will happen if she can´t help out

with the sub-prime/hedge funds crisis?

[grassfed]

55. bankruptcies and jail

[Angela Shelley]

57. For us or for them?

Peace :-)

[Barack_America]

54. My theory: She and Bill made "agreements" in advance...

We all know that the Clinton's recent wealth has come from wealthy, international businessmen (largely middle-eastern) compensating Bill Clinton for his business and government contacts, cultivated during his years as President. Ever wonder how someone gets paid so much for "consulting" and speaking engagements? Well, making advantageous "introductions" would be your answer.

Imagine what a second tour through the White House would do for the "family business". And, back during Hillary's year as the media-branded "inevitable", I'm sure that international businessmen were lining up to buy a piece of the action.

But what if the Clintons can't deliver? What if they can't uphold their end of the bargain?

This could ruin them not only politically, but financially as well.

[4themind]

60. I think Pelosi figured that too

that's why she wanted to state without ambiguity, her thoughts on the possibility of a Clinton/Obama or vice versa ticket.