Zogby: Kerry is going to have to change, that's where his voters are

[DaveSZ]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/05/10/withdrawal/index.html

Time to get out?
With the war in Iraq turning into a nightmare, increasing numbers -- on the left and the right -- are calling for America to withdraw.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Michelle Goldberg


*snip*

He has to do that even if it means abandoning his current position, says Zogby. "He's going to have to change (his position on Iraq), because that's where his voters are at."

And if the trend toward red-state disenchantment with the war continues, Kerry could even pick up votes from Bush backers. A recent Wall Street Journal/NBC poll showed that a remarkable 40 percent of Republicans said they would consider voting for Kerry if the war situation worsened.


Zogby criticizes Kerry's current position as outdated. In his April 30 speech, says Zogby, "he called for a solution from 15 months ago, saying, 'We've got to get our allies involved, we've got to bring the United Nations in. Well, you're not going to persuade Germany and France to come in now. You're not going to persuade the United Nations to get involved now."

But Kerry can't make a really radical move and call for withdrawal, Zogby says. "He can't declare, 'Let's cut and run right now,' because that's tantamount to George McGovern," Zogby says. The White House attack machine has already portrayed Kerry as a spineless flip-flopper: If Kerry were to change his position on Iraq, Republicans would crucify him.

more-

[WI_DEM]

1. this is what alot of people have been saying

Kerry isn't running away with this election (yet) despite all of Bush's problems because the anti-war independents and some democrats have not been able to embrace him as the necessary change. What many people don't seem to get is that the war is the paramount issue for many people in this country--and they aren't all "left wing kooks" either. NBC had a poll last week which said that Nader is attracting 9% of the anti-war independent "swing" voters--primarily because he is seen as the the one candidate who is clearly opposed to the war.

[SoDesuKa]

2. Kerry's Hard to Like

Granted, Kerry's not Bush. But oh my, what a disappointment. He is so hard to like.

[cspiguy]

4. he may not look or talk like Edwards (Lurch factor) but you will

find it very easy to like the people he appoints, his cabinet, judges, department changes, and his close friends in the Senate that will have key roles in reversing everything * has done to us in three years.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AntiCoup2K4]

23. JFK could beat Bush easily

...If Bush's father hadn't had him killed 40 years ago.

[jfxgillis]

15. Good. Great. Fantastic. I love him because he's hard to like

Think Alexander Hamilton was "likable"?

Abraham Lincoln?

Winston Churchill?

FUCK "likable." We've had two presidents and 12 years in a row of "likable" and I'm sick to death of it.

Let's try DIGNIFIED and SUBSTANTIVE for once, just for giggles.

[emulatorloo]

16. You don't have to go to bed with him

EOM

[SoDesuKa]

20. I Wasn't Planning to Do That, Either

Kerry has even less appeal sexually than he has politically. But thanks for the heads-up, so to speak.

[workforpower]

3. No link.

Post stinks. It is full of spyware too.

[mike_c]

5. I would change my mind and vote for Kerry if he reverses...

...his intention to stick with the PNAC agenda in Iraq. This is the single most important issue for me-- not the only issue, but the deal maker/killer.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emulatorloo]

13. You have nothing to support this contention

except a bunch of assumptions - show me on the Kerry website etc where he supports the PNAC agenda in Iraq.

Ok now, now tell me about Bush's rejection of the PNAC agenda in Iraq.

[AntiCoup2K4]

24. The phrase "progressive internationalism" is a creation of a PNAC'er

And that PNAC'er (Will Marshall) is involved in creating Kerry's foreign policy positions.

[info being]

21. But you have to remember...

for these Skull & Bonesman, turning away from world domination is not in their nature.

[robbedvoter]

6. I think he might. Clark is speaking for him and twice implied

that if the Iraqis want us out we need to get out. yesterday he said:

"  I think there's a greater than 50/50 chance, let's say a 2:1 chance, of a catastrophic early end to this mission."

[DaveSZ]

9. I hope he listens to Clark

and not the neocons.

:(

[emulatorloo]

17. Clark is part of the Kerry campaign. . .

and no doubt part of the future Kerry admin.

[robbedvoter]

18. Exactly. He wouldn't say it unless is part of Kerry's agenda

That's why I emphasized that he speaks for Kerry.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emulatorloo]

14. Kerry said on MTP that Iraq may end up as a theocracy

which to me expresses his willingness to let Iraq do what it wants to do. . .

[Scoopie]

19. Of course it will end up as a theocracy

Which proves Wes Clark's points that Shrub, as Commander in Chief, had virtually no plans for what to do after "Mission Accomplished."

When you have several million more Shi'ites than Sunni Muslim or Christian, then, OF COURSE, a theocracy will take place. Shi'ites believe in the divine appointment of their clergy. Sunni's don't. I knew this - and I'm just a sweet Southern girl with no ties to military intelligence. How come Shrub didn't know this? :shrug:

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. But that's CLARK's position, not neccessarily Kerry's.

The comments are consistent with what Clark said when he was campaigning on his own. This is not at all what Kerry has been saying lately, supporting the occupation, calling for 40,000 more troops, etc.

[Monte Carlo]

8. What's the problem? I think Kerry has a very good position.

And it doesn't involve cutting-and-running, a la McGovern.

Kerry has said over and over that we can't just withdraw and leave Iraq to its fate. That would be immensely irrepsonible.

What needs to happen is to internationalize the troops via the UN or other organization. Kerry has said he would, and frankly, I think American voters would back him up on that.

Kerry can't persuade France and Germany and the UN? I've got 4 golden words for you; special envoy Bill Clinton.

[Cocoa]

12. Kerry is on record saying Bush has "fucked it up."

Kerry can make people understand that the war is going badly because of the numerous mistakes Bush has made, including going in in the first place. Remember, his vote was not for the war, that was Bush's decision, and very early on, Kerry was saying Bush should at least have waited, and very possibly never gone in.

[TheDonkey]

22. Kerry should announce he wants to reduce troops, increase gear and UN

presence.

We shouldn't cut and run, but it is definetly time to reduce our role, we are making many angrier. We need UN flags flying around not ours.

[sundancekid]

26. Zogby says John Kerry will win the election!

I prefer info from the horse's mouth, rather than not. Here is a
DIRECT link to Zogby's OWN words and positions. Also, all this "sky is falling stuff" is nearly irresponsible if we generalize without any credible foundations. I, for one, appreciate opinions very much, but I do NOT wish them confused for universal truth.

http://www.zogby.com/news/051004.html


The Election Is Kerry's To Lose

By John Zogby

I have made a career of taking bungee jumps in my election calls. Sometimes I haven't had a helmet and I have gotten a little scratched. But here is my jump for 2004: John Kerry will win the election.
<snip>

[Nicholas_J]

27. So does Gallop

And Right Wing COnservative, PNAC author, Bill Krsitol, on CSPAN this weekend stated tat it is likely that Kerry will win in November. He was very unhappy about that.

And Freepers are getting so worried that they are suggeesting that Bill O'Reilly will eventually endorse Kerry.

And I just found an article(AND POSTED IT) quoting Zogby in which Zogby says that he woud advise Kerry to bite his lip and let events surrounding the Bush administration unfold for a while and wait until late summer, early autumn before finally coning out in attack mode.