Ugh! On KO, the Big Dog is suggesting Obama is unpatriotic, with his

[muntrv]

"wouldn't it be great if the election were between 2 people who really love their country?"

[Life Long Dem]

1. That is real low.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Hillary Clinton has embraced this person for over 33 years.

Are we supposed to believe she hasn't heard these kinds of comments before?

[Coexist]

4. *snort*

[azmouse]

7. Hasn't she disavowed those remarks yet?

She should have done that years ago before this became an issue.

[XemaSab]

10. .

:spank:

[rug]

29. What have you been clasping for years?

[JVS]

44. I've even heard rumors of them having "sexual relations"

[bilgewaterbill]

58. Just rumors.

[JVS]

60. as far as we know

[bilgewaterbill]

62. LOL!!

[thoughtcrime1984]

63. She needs to denounce and reject these comments

She also needs to distance herself from this person.

[Nitrogenica]

3. Oof that sounds like a slip up on Clinton's part.

Let's be careful about this, are we sure the Dog meant that the way it sounds?

It does sound bad, but maybe it was a mistake?

I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. If that's a rip on Obama it's a childish low blow.

[Life Long Dem]

9. No, I saw and heard it. He was prepared to say exactly that.

Watch a video and decide for yourself.

[EFerrari]

11. Do you have a link for those of us who didn't see?

:hi:

[Nitrogenica]

15. It's posted at Huffington.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/21/another-bill-clinton-mome_n_92818.html

[EFerrari]

52. Thank you.

[cbayer]

27. There have been several other threads on this today.

Here is the exact quote:

"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country," said the former president. "And people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."

and he said it to a group of 80 veterans at a VFW hall.

I would support your advice to be prudent.

But you quite possibly have me on ignore.

[TwilightGardener]

5. Awful--and what isn't often quoted is the lead-in to the main quote:

where he goes on and on about how great and patriotic McCain is, and then says, McCain and Hillary would be a great contest because they both love their country, and have America's best interests at heart, and it would be about issues--without any of that "other stuff"...Good Lord.

edit to add: "It would be so great if it we could just get rid of that unamerican guy!"

[Lerkfish]

20. wienerdoggie: I'm following your example in the other thread

I spent all day increasing my ignore list... a breath of fresh air.

thanks.

[TwilightGardener]

28. ...

:thumbsup:

[cbayer]

30. Where have you seen that wienerdoggie?

There's no lead-in on the huffpo link.

I would be interested in seeing exactly what he said.

[TwilightGardener]

35. I saw it on Hardball--they had the part right before the main quote, where

Bill talked about McCain's sacrifice, his service, how great he was, etc.

[cbayer]

40. Lots of people are quoting you

but I haven't found any link or anyone able to provide a link.

If you get one, I would appreciate your letting me know.

[TwilightGardener]

42. I don't know--maybe Hardball video is up?

[mattclearing]

67. Jesus Christ.

That's it. Fuck Bill Clinton with a telephone pole.

[murielm99]

6. Nice distortion and spin there. n/t

[Nexus7]

8. Yes, of course, and Big Dog was responsible for World War II also

Gimme a break. Obama takes his children to a church where the pastor like to chant "God damn America." That's what Big Dog was referring to.

And how does Obama address that? He lectures us on race. I think Rosa Parks has (had) to right to do that. Everybody else can chill and try not to ask God to damn America.

[Life Long Dem]

12. Time to listen to people other than us and find out we here are not

We are not the only ones talking about Clinton and quiting.

[anonymous171]

14. Hey, the pastor was there for the than 20 years.

Have you even his sermons?

[azmouse]

16. How about using the pastor's full quote?

"God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people."
He was referring to our actions in Iraq.

[Nexus7]

18. Yeah, cute.

OK, so he did say "God damn America," did he now?

I can sort of see why he said that, but he did say it.

[Life Long Dem]

21. Well , Obama didn't hear him say it

But thanks to MSM, Obama knows now he said it!! :silly:
:rofl:

[MikeNearMcChord]

17. If I was an Iraqi, I would ask God to damn America

same if I was an Afghanistani hell if I was an African-American, in the 9th ward left to rot at the Superdome after Katrina, I would probably ask the same also.

[cliffordu]

47. I said it after I got home from VietNam and saw

demonstrators rounded up like cattle and maced by the cops.....

And then tried to get Veteran's benefits.....ha.

[dysfunctional press]

71. i said it several times while reading howard zinn's "a people's history of the united states".

at times, we definitely deserve the wrath of god.

and if there were one, we'd probably get hit with it every now and then.

[tabatha]

31. Good lord, you people are pathetic.

OBama was not in church when that particular phrase was uttered.

In fact, if there were more comments, don't you think they would have played them over and over.

But in 20 years, all they could find was about three instances of Wright going over the line.

Then there was this comment someone read in a local newspaper, that says it all:

To the editor:

In recent days, the media has been discussing statements made by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Sen. Barack Obama’s former pastor. Rev. Wright has claimed that God condemns America for its continued violence, intolerance and bigotry. These are strong words indeed.

However, I would much rather hear the sermons of Rev. Wright than those of politically conservative ministers such as Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and even Kansas’ own Fred Phelps, each of which have claimed that God condemns America for not being hateful and bigoted enough.
--Aspen Junge,
Lawrence

[ultrabrown]

13. Hillary's website is debunking these insinnuations. Bill's words taken out of context

Bill asked for non-issues to be left out of our political discourse:

I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country and people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/

[Yael]

19. Because the Clinton Camp has been meticulous about running an "issues-only" campaign?

[creeksneakers2]

22. That's how I read it

Bill meant that it would be better to have an election that was over the issues without all the distractions from personal attacks.

[TwilightGardener]

23. No, you have to see the lead-in, where he talks about McCain's captivity, his

heroism, about how McCain almost gave his life for his country, about how much McCain loved the country...and THEN...wouldn't it be nice to have a contest between TWO people who love their country, and have their best interests at heart? Translation: McCain: Patriotic hero. Hillary: Patriot. The only other person who could be IN the contest...he's presumably the "other stuff" we want to avoid.

[cliffordu]

48. That's exactly right -

The hill supporters here conveniently forget that part....


Of course they've conveniently forgotten the delegate count, the popular vote, their recent lack of funds.....

[sunnystarr]

25. Isn't it wonderful how Bill keeps endorsing McCain ...

what wonderful clips can be strung together for the McCain campaign to use. Who is the opposition? Reading HRC supporters in this thread I would be led to believe that McCain would make a great president and that's OK with you.

[Straight Shooter]

24. Well, if Nader were in the race then it would be 3 people who really love their country.

Jeez. You don't get to run for president unless you demonstrate a love of your country.

[rug]

26. That's an idiotic take on the clip.

If the election is between Clinton and McCain, he's saying thay're both patriotic. And from this you infer he's calling Obama, who isn't even mentioned, unpatriotic?

You're blinded.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. If KO Is Spinning Bill's Comments Like That, Then He's Being A Disingenuous Asshole.

Seriously. It is beyond clear Bill meant no such thing, and just even the slightest pause for critical thought would allow one to arrive at that conclusion.

Was Keith really trying to spin it as implying that? I hope not, or he would've for that moment become as bad as someone on fox news. For real.

[Bonobo]

39. Just one question: Did you SEE the comment or just read it? That's all.

Your opinion is fine with me either way, but I want you to tell me whether you read the quote or saw it. Okay? Thanks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. I'll Admit, I Only Read It. But I Have High Doubts That Seeing It Would Change My Mind.

When considering the situation objectively and giving it logical consideration, based on what I've read it would seem completely illogical and almost ludicrous to think he'd say such a thing. Would it really make sense? Do you think for a second they'd be that blatant in helping to paint him that way? No way in hell in my opinion. When I read the statement (though admittedly I didn't watch it), it seems clear exactly what he means, and it seems that people are reading into it in the ways they want merely out of it being what they want it to mean. But on its face, it would seem insane to think he'd cross the line in such a dramatic and disgusting fashion. Just wouldn't make any sense, and I ain't buyin it for a second. At this time, I look at it as nothing more than a biased and deceitful smear the likes of fox news. If after I see the video I consider myself in error, I'll change my position. But I doubt highly that could be the case, since logic would deem it so highly unlikely that would've been his intent. So for now, I stand where I stand.

[Bonobo]

53. All I will say is that I too did not believe it when I read the quote -honestly.

I even started a thread refuting the Obama people's claims and saying they were reading too much into it.

When I saw it many hours later, the actual clip itself, I had no doubt at all what he was saying between the lines. Honestly, OMC, no doubt.

Get back to me after you see it, okay. I think it's on the Huffington Post.

Cheers.

[Samantha]

69. It was a nuanced statement but its intent was perfectly clear

I would have thought that the Clintons, being two of the most unfairly attacked Democrats I have ever witnessed being persecuted over such an extended period of time, would be overly cautious about playing the same game with an opponent. Just goes to show you how wrong I can be. There appears to be a pattern of their absorbing all of the past dirty tricks executed in the last few years, learning from them by watching their effect, and applying one as the situation demands.

Bill Clinton, for example, was accused of being unpatriotic by George H.W. Bush during the 1992 campaign.

[Why Syzygy]

61. It's true.

His emphasis seemed to be the difference between the "two people who love their country" AND NOT "other stuff... intrudes itself on politics", ie race.



Here is the full quote: "I think it would be a great thing if we had an election between two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interests of the country and people could actually ask themselves who is right on the issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/21/another-bill-clinton-mome_n_92818.html

[SwampG8r]

68. i saw it

as i was going out the door on one of the cable news outlets
i know it wasnt fox tho
i stopped because the news monkey said (and im paraphrasing i was on my way to work and didnt have time to note who and the exact quote so all you rush-to-refuters can just go on to the next post)


bill clintons remarks to the vfw are causeing a stir
then they went to a video of clinton speaking
he was praisng mccain and his unarguable services to america
and he said that he wished the election this time could be between 2 people who love america


as a viewer i recognized his unspoken message
it was so carefully crafted as a statement i knew as i saw it it was not ad lib
it was in my opinion an indirect attack on obamas patriotism and another direct
endorsement of mccain

they will burn down the village
and say it was to save the child

[hisownpetard]

56. Keith is nothing of the sort. Watch/listen to the clip, PLUS the sentence following it,

where he says something like, "And that's why I'm supporting her."

It's a classic innuendo-filled remark.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

33. Any bets on how long it'll be before Hill has to reject and denounce Bill?

[DrFunkenstein]

34. I'm Going to Assume That He Didn't Go All Max Cleland

Please, please, please let this be something taken wildly out of context.

[TwilightGardener]

36. Actually, the more you look at the context, and hear even more than the quote, and

consider the audience, it's pretty unmistakeable.

[DrFunkenstein]

41. Does Anyone Have a Link So I Can Check It Out?

Appreciate it.

[TwilightGardener]

43. I saw the extended clip on Hardball--don't know if they have it on MSNBC.

[goodgd_yall]

37. Hate to be the one to do this, but

link?

Somehow I just don't believe Bill Clinton would say that.

[otohara]

51. Here Ya Go!

Ruh oh! Here goes Bill Clinton again in the Carolinas

South Carolina is where former president got in hot water for his Jesse Jackson comment.

Now Barack Obama supporters on the blogs are pouncing on Bill Clinton's comments about patriotism in North Carolina today.

While discussing with a small group of veterans today a possible general election match up between Hillary Clinton and John McCain, Bill Clinton said it would be great because it would be between two folks who truly love America.

"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country," Bill Clinton said according to MSNBC. "And people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."
water).http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/10605

[still_one]

55. I don't see having a 100 year war in the interest of the country, and that is why

I question Bill Clinton's true intent

mccains a waco, just look at his voting record

[Bensthename]

38. McBush/Billary '08

[flowomo]

45. I am impartial on this and Clinton was not attacking Obama....

It seems to me the comment was made in the context of a Hillary-McCain general election -- and, of course, every candidate and his/her supporters, always speak as though he or she WILL be in the general election. So Obama was excluded from the context. After that, Clinton was saying that he expected Hillary and McCain to conduct themselves in a way that focused on issues and not "the politics of personal destruction." It was a compliment to McCain (not entirely undeserved) and a compliment to his wife (entirely expected). I don't believe anyone was being compared to Obama. I suppose that in this extraordinarily heated situation (the Dem primary), all speakers should look to the possible second and third level of meaning of anything they say -- because it is almost certain that someone will find the intended meaning there. I take Clinton's remark at its first level of meaning -- a McCain-Clinton campaign would not degenerate into the kind of mudsling that others in recent decades became. I'm not sure he's right about that -- but that's what he meant to say.

Oh, and the clip I watched was on the Huffington site. It there is more to see, I will watch it.

[still_one]

49. I didn't see it, but it doesn't sound too different than Hillary saying she and mccain were qualifie

to be president, and Obama is just a speech

only this time implying just hillary and mccain are patriotic, and excluding Obama is more than just pushing his candidate, it is playing on the current media hype that Obama's pastor isn't patriotic, and therefore maybe there is a link

Bill Clinton, knows exactly what he is doing

[flowomo]

50. "maybe there is a link"

That's right -- "maybe." The remark has a surface meaning, and then layers of interpretations. I am just saying that to my ears, the words come across as I described them. Others have other sensitivities and might reasonably be tuned into other meanings. One of the problems I see with the primary campaign right now is that every word or comment is being squeezed for deeper meanings. Maybe that's wise and maybe that's misguided.

[still_one]

54. I wasn't questioning your sincerity, just giving my two cents in the circus which has become DU /nt

[flowomo]

57. oh, I never thought you were attacking me in any way...

and I regret that the "circus" here has put everybody on alert for disses. I appreciate your concern that I took your post the wrong way; I didn't. And I regret if my reply suggested that I did.

[still_one]

73. Everything is cool, we will somehow get through these primaries, I think /nt

[dansolo]

65. Then why did he include the "who loved this country" part?

In the context of what he was saying, that part makes no sense. He could have made his point without that phrase. But he intentionally included it, so the obvious implication was that Obama was not included with those who loved this country. It was deliberate, and it was disgusting.

[flowomo]

66. not necessarily....

he recognizes that the popular sentiment is that McCain "loves his country" and that will be a powerful aide to him in the GE -- and he is saying, "Well, that's a wash, because Hillary loves her country as much as McCain does and so we don't have to debate that (the way that John Kerry's love of country was trashed with claims about his views on Viet Nam or Bush's were trashed with claims about his being AWOL). He did not say that "love of country" would NOT be a wash with Obama -- Obama wasn't an issue in the comment, which assumed a Clinton-McCain GE.

[Why Syzygy]

74. You are acting naive.

Excluding Obama from the equation of TWO PEOPLE WHO LOVE THEIR COUNTRY certainly does imply that if Obama is in the GE there will only be ONE PERSON WHO LOVES THEIR COUNTRY. Anyone who doesn't see that is in denial.

[Why Syzygy]

59. He has syphilis brain. nt

[Cha]

64. But, he's tellin' on hilary. bil clinton is

sayin' hilary doesn't love her country or she would bow the fuck out.

[BenDavid]

70. what the big dawg should have said is "Obama is not telling you

the truth about pastor wright. Obama contradicted himself in his speech on Tuesday. Prior to Tuesday obama had said the only thing controversial he knew about Rev. Wright was his stand on issues relating to Africa, abortion and gay marriage. Plus, obama's initial reaction to the initial ABC News broadcast of Rev. Wright’s sermons denouncing the U.S. was that he had never heard his pastor of 20 years make any comments that were anti-U.S. until the tape was played on air.Well, according to what I heard and now that I re-read his speech obama said, “Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes,”

[smalll]

72. How is this anti-BO? Barack really loves this country...

as far as I know. :evilgrin: