Let's Get Real: What does "God Damn America" mean for us in a GE?

[LulaMay]

My note 1st: Democrats who care about winning this election should take a moment to set aside their opinions and feelings about Rev. Wright and Senator Obama's speech, and seriously consider the impact on a GE.

In that scope of things, the issue is not what we think about Rev. Wrights remarks. It's not what we think about his giving a forum, however small, to Hamas, or that Senator Obama objected to it. It's not what we think about Louis Farrahkan and The Nation of Islam, or the Black Panthers, endorsing him. It's not what we think about Michelle Obama's remarks on her pride as an American. It is how these things, highlighted by Wright's "God Damn America" moment, and the Senator's 20 year relationship with him, will affect voters in a general election, how Republican's will use it and threaten a Democratic GE win.

If Democrats are going to discuss "elect-ability" issues as a serious concern, then we ought to be straightforward about it in regards to every candidate. Without a doubt, party leaders, delegates are extremely worried about it. There has been dead silence from them, they know what it could mean. Since the reports, Senator Obama's match-up numbers against McCain have gone down significantly. In many polls, he loses the GE to McCain in crucial states by wider margins than ever before.

Anyone who doesn't wonder if the Obama campaign, and his supporters in the media, party, are trying to shift the focus off what could be a nomination sinker, isn't wanting to think about it. Changing the subject to "Pasport-gate" and Bill Richardson being on the short list for VP, isn't going to make it disappear. It may for now, but it won't down the road.

If party leaders and delegates are discussing the serious implications and impact this could have, then all Democrats ought to to be, without unfairly, viciously calling those who do racist. Otherwise, we do not prepare ourselves for the convention, or what could come. If Democrats don't discuss it, and instead resort to name calling and finger pointing, the possibility for a divisive, ugly convention is put into play. The goal is to come out of the convention supporting our candidate. The way to do that is to discuss problems realistically and not get into divisive fights that are then highlighted on TV.

We fight racism. This part of the discussion isn't so much about what we know and feel about racism. It's about political realities and winning the GE. At this point in time and history, the problems in Senator Obama's campaign, his great speech not withstanding, are about the worst they could be, for obvious reasons.

I personally am worried that items continue to show up, such as this article about Wright publishing a Hamas editorial in church literature, which had been printed in the LA Times. I'm also concerned that as these things have occurred, additional remarks of Rev Wright and others add more flame to the fire and harm Senator Obama greatly by association, no matter what his response.

Ask yourselves what the "average American", whoever that is, might feel about these things when the Republican's call attention to them again, which they surely will, and the fact that a good part of Senator Obama's answer each time seems to be that he wasn't in church that day, or knew of such things.

Please do not accuse me of posting "RW BS". It is not. The following article is from a Jewish News Source that highlights Senator Obama's opposition to Wright publishing the Hamas piece.



-Article-


Obama Blasts Hamas op-ed

Published: 03/20/2008, JTA News

A pro-Hamas op-ed printed in his church's bulletin is "outrageously wrong," Barack Obama said.

In an issue dated July 22, 2007, in a section titled "Pastor's Page," the church reprinted an article by Hamas official Mousa Abu Marzook in which he justifies Hamas' withholding of recognition of Israel's right to exist. The article originally appeared as an op-ed in the Los Angeles Times.

The church's pastor, Jeremiah Wright, who retired this year, has already stirred controversy for the U.S. senator campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination with earlier statements likening Israel to colonialists and blaming attacks on the United States in part on its support for Israel.

"I have already condemned my former pastor's views on Israel in the strongest possible terms, and I certainly wasn’t in church when that outrageously wrong Los Angeles Times piece was re-printed in the bulletin," Obama said in a statement emailed to JTA late Thursday, and referring to critics who noted that Obama had been in church when Wright had made controversial statements. "Hamas is a terrorist organization, responsible for the deaths of many innocents, and dedicated to Israel's destruction, as evidenced by their bombarding of Sderot in recent months. I support requiring Hamas to meet the international community's conditions of recognizing Israel, renouncing violence, and abiding by past agreements before they are treated as a legitimate actor."

-snip-

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/107643.html

[leftofcool]

1. Very bad news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[virtualobserver]

5. .........for Hillary

n/t

[anonymeme]

69. No. Hillary Never Said Such a Thing Nor Did Any of Her 20 Year Associates.

No. Hillary Never Said Such a Thing Nor Did Any of Her 20 Year Associates.

But you disgraceful Obamaniacs keep up the attempted smear-jobs on the former First Lady and fellow Democrat!

[blm]

167. Hillary held up a headline on the senate floor BUSH KNEW about 9-11. What's the difference

in her implication that our government was aware of 9-11 beforehand and Pastor Wright's implication? And wouldn't any self-respecting Republican THUG use Wright and Clinton's clips TOGETHER just as easily as they would use just Wright's?

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

105. Tell us WHY=-=

[trained specialist]

125. God Damned Obama!

like it?
how do you think people sitting there with missing arms and legs feel
about Obama's spiritual advisor?

[virtualobserver]

188. I would hope that they would think....

that they wish that someone in power had opposed this war from the beginning.

And for the sake of future and current soldiers, they would want someone like Obama who would not lightly put those willing to serve in harms way.

[ClassWarrior]

200. LET IT SINK.

NGU.

[OzarkDem]

209. Sorry, it needs to be discussed

If you think ignoring it will make it go away, you're wrong. Dems need to win the WH and our leaders have to choose the candidate who can survive the GE. Having a lot of money is meaningless when the GOP goes after a candidate who has little experience and a lot of problems in his resume.

[iconocrastic]

210. How often do we see the equivalent of "God Damn America" posted here?

Our chickens are coming home to roost?

[dailykoff]

2. It means "God damn, America just elected a black president!"

God damn, America! :headbang:

[elizm]

7. LOL...

:toast:

[olkaz]

13. I love that!

hahaha

[Yes We Did]

16. That's what I'm talking about!

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

182. Like the sig Dog ;)

[A-Schwarzenegger]

28. Heh.

:-)

[EFerrari]

50. LOL! Right on!

:rofl:

[AZBlue]

164. I think that may have to be my new signature line!!

[virtualobserver]

3. it means Obama will be the next President........

but Rev. Wright will not be on the ticket.

[tekisui]

4. Not a Goddamn thing.

[2rth2pwr]

6. counting the seconds until you will be accused of racism, called

a racist or indicted for race-baiting.

[virtualobserver]

15. I am counting the hours before these monotonous posts......

end................. when Obama locks up the nomination absolutely.

[LulaMay]

150. I put a lot of serious consideration into this post. The topic deserves it, or we're going to lose.

I don't take it lightly. I don't want to lose. I don't want my sons ending up in Iran.

[JoFerret]

187. Hang in there Lula May

Don't let the Hillary hate get you down.
You disagree with the Obama supporters but I have never seen you pillory or mock him. Thank-you.

[LulaMay]

152. It's about the GE!!!! What are we going to do about it if he's the nominee? Tell me please.

[virtualobserver]

186. according to the latest poll

70% of americans do not believe that Obama and Wright share the same beliefs.

55% of Americans do not trust Hillary

only 29% of Americans do not trust Obama.

The real question is what would we do with a nominee distrusted by 55% of the American people.

If you don't want a war with Iran, don't vote for someone who voted for Kyl-Leiberman.

[shimmergal]

177. And then what?

I believe that's what the OP is trying to get us to think about. Answering her with insults is not going to boost Obama's electability in the GE.

[Steely_Dan]

170. Exactly! n/t

[scheming daemons]

8. If OBAMA said those things, it would mean a lot.... since he didn't, it doesn't...

...

[Iris]

145. exactly. And how come no one's posting video of that controversial preacher who endorsed McCain

and acting like he speaks for McCain?

[Steely_Dan]

173. Don't You Get It???

It matters not if he said such things. It is a matter of perception. The RW will use this to convince many people that Obama is "dangerous." We may all understand that he did not say those things or even associate himself with what Wright said. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE THINK. By the time the RW is finished with Obama, most of the electorate will think he said those things himself. It's reality and we have to face that.

Hello, President McCain.

-P

[LSparkle]

9. And HRC will get a free ride from the RW? I don't think so ...

EITHER WAY we're going to be attacked. All we can do is run the candidate best able to counter
their negativity with a positive agenda, someone who can fire up OUR base and bring independents
and disaffected Repugs to our side. We cannot run OUT OF FEAR OF WHAT THEY WILL DO TO US --
that's what we've done for the past few election cycles and it HAS NOT WORKED.

NOT THIS TIME!

[anonymous171]

12. Correct. We need someone who can not only weather attacks but also mobilize the base.

[LulaMay]

24. What do you think American's will care about more? Monica or "God Damn America"?

[LSparkle]

30. Monica was Bill's problem -- Hillary now has Bill, her negative campaign

her "experience" myth ... Plus Obama brings the enthusiasm of youth and
all the new voters he's recruited, which will counter any votes lost
in red states because of the Rev. Wright mess.

[Steely_Dan]

175. Yep...You are Correct!

That's why the American people should have thought before they tried to make Presidential history. We needed this election unlike any other time in history. America fucked up.

-P

[ElsewheresDaughter]

10. A BIG LOSS

[Yes We Did]

18. I thought you guys didn't believe in hope.

How many times do I have to tell you guys? You don't get to have it both ways.

OH, you like my signature. I got my inspiration from your signature... well, the one you used to have.

[blm]

11. Bill Clinton damned America and the Dem party and the world when he deep-sixed BCCI matters

throughout the 90s to protect BushInc.

And we've been suffering the backlash ever since.

[Cooley Hurd]

14. I dunno, but it might mean the Air America Cruise was an Obama love fest...

...or not.:rofl:

Have you decided THAT yet, Lula?

[stillcool]

17. I've read several posts just like yours

sorry for your pain. I know you really, really, really want it to work. You keep trying to hammer the race shit home, you never know!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. Particularly disgusting by this OP, because she touts herself as a feminist.

True feminism isn't about making progress for women at the expense of people of color. At least the way I understand it.

[Bluerthanblue]

89. more distrubing is that it comes from a "Dem"-

who sometimes seems to think the "sexist" paradigm is the only one that exists.

How about plain old, human decency, and community?

This primary has really uncovered our warts and weaknesses.

:shrug:

peace~

[Debi]

23. HEY look LOOK over HERE!!

:bounce: Reverend Wright!!!!!!:bounce:Michigan/Florida:bounce:NO LAPEL PIN:bounce:

Don't pay any attention to Bill Richardson's endorsement :crazy:

[2rth2pwr]

42. 5 minutes! that's 300 seconds.

probably screwed up the results by saying that I was going to measure it. Next time I will just mark the time.

[libbygurl]

135. LOL. Saw that coming miles away. 'Racist'! There you have it.

Sorry, Lula May. You've now been implicated as a 'racist' for this most sensible and practical post. But reason and reality don't really get you anywhere when dealing with the BO believers.

[LulaMay]

155. Luckily, I know who I am. If this isn't taken seriously, we'll lose.

and I don't want to lose.

I don't want us to end up in Iran.

[LulaMay]

153. Too sad.

[cali]

19. not much. Obama didn't say it,, lu

both hilly and Obama have weak places where they can be attacked. Take hilly's foolish lying shit about Bosnia and landing under sniper fire which has now definitively been shown to be a stupid self-aggrandizing lie. Or the fact that she's hated by much of America.

[doc03]

20. The average Joe six-pack blue color

worker will not vote for a person they perceive hates America and the white race.

[LulaMay]

29. I do not think that is the "average American". It's about terrorism to them.

[rug]

21. It's the first line of an effective bumper sticker.

Elections have been decided on less.

[LulaMay]

32. I didn't consider that. Very simple for them to do.

[scheming daemons]

37. Maybe Obama is hoping the American people are smarter than you.....

....

[rug]

45. Yeah, Hope and Change is a courageous and deep platform.

You don't pander to people you think are smarter than you.

At least he's found his target in you.

Oh, I almost forgot. Yes, We Can! Gobama!

What did I leave out?

[txaslftist]

70. "The only candidate not endorsed by Limbaugh?"

[rug]

82. No, just as inaccurate.

[txaslftist]

99. "The candidate endorsed by Anne Coulter?"

[txaslftist]

101. Oh. Sorry. That would be YOUR candidate.

[rug]

103. Keep trying.

[MattBaggins]

25. If you really want to know

just ask Robertson, Fallwell, Hagee, Dobson or any of the many preachers who have asked God to damn America or insisted that he already has.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

26. Let's set aside our brains for a minute ...

:eyes:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. it means kiss the WH goodbye

[LulaMay]

34. that's what I'm afraid of.

[murray hill farm]

31. What it means is this.....

Folks who hide their ugly racist sides have found a reason that is "acceptable" for then to hide their ugly side by wrapping it up in a few passionate remarks by a respected reverend and still strike out at the "uppity black" that dared to run for president. so, it means nothing! Those who jump on that ugly wagon of disguised racism, will and would never have voted for Obama anyway. But.......gosh, it seems that their are more humans in this country who don't have that ugly hidden side since Obama is winning this thing...and will win in the GE.

[MattBaggins]

47. It is quite disgusting

The only acceptable way to knock Obama down with race was to paint him as the "Angry Black Man". They even had to crawl as low as possible and do it through guilt by association. It really saddens me to see so many HRC supporters either fall for it, or willingly engage in it.

If Hillary were to win the nomination and Fox starts the "Hillary is a Feminazi" campaign, will they act surprised if many of us shrug our shoulders?

[mzmolly]

33. Nothing, given McCain's former relationship with Jerry Falwell.

:hi:

[LulaMay]

39. I believe this will resonate with Americans as terrorism fears, which will benefit McCain.

[mzmolly]

51. I think people will tire of this entire debacle come fall.

:hi:

[LulaMay]

57. I think we forget how vicious Republicans are, and what people can be made to fear.

[mzmolly]

75. I think we assume that they'll not pull the fear card on any candidate we have.

I think we need to remind them WHO was in office on 911 and beat them to death with that fact.

[LulaMay]

108. But do you really think people will respond more to old Clinton sex junk than fear of terrorism?

anti-americanism?

[mzmolly]

124. What makes you think Clinton is immune to "fear of terrorism"? Bill Clinton

is BLAMED for 911 by the R/W.

[LulaMay]

126. People don't believe Bill Clinton caused 9/11, they blame Bush. The Wright remark is incendiary.

[mzmolly]

146. I'm not sure who "they" is but if that's the case, your OP is moot.

But, we already knew that. ;)

[LulaMay]

157. "They" are the American people, voters. How does that make this serious issue moot?

[mzmolly]

184. The entire discussion is "moot" because you keep moving the goal posts.

What does Reverend Wright have to do with "terrorism"? Also, if "they" blame Bush for 911, how does another Republican benefit from any "fear card"? Sorry, the fear card worked for Republicans because we ceded the issue to them. If we stop doing so, which Obama will - it will not be a concern in 08.

[Bensthename]

35. Well, considering Obama DID NOT SAY IT

It will be looked upon as a desperate attempt by the GOP. People will be sick of hearing it even more then they are now already.

[LulaMay]

120. So sick of hearing it that they could vote for McCain.

[Steely_Dan]

178. You Just Don't Get It, Do You?

It doesn't matter if Obama said it or not. Perception is as good as reality to most of America. What do you think the RW will do with this? You give the average voter too much credit. They are not hanging out on political forums and are generally not political. They believe what they hear. Once again. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF OBAMA SAID IT...The RW will convince most of America that he did.

-P

[Nitrogenica]

36. There is a context, and discussion of this as a "sound bite" insults our intelligence.

In addition, the church itself as a whole is quite outstanding.

It is childish to try to trick people into believing half-truths and lies.

America is smarter than that.

[LulaMay]

44. The context won't matter to a lot of people. How many? I don't give them as much credit as you...

to consider the context.

It already is a soundbite, and foolish to think it won't be used against us.

[Nitrogenica]

66. I'm not saying they won't use it, my point is it won't be as effective as

these things were in 2004.

The only opposition research we need is already done: McCain is a Republican.

[Life Long Dem]

38. I don't know what it means but I know what God bless America is.

I never hear GDA. Other countries say why does America feel God blesses America only? When 9/11 comes along it's don't dare say GDA. It's GBA and nothing else. How dare you even suggest it.

[kwenu]

40. After seeing McCains repeated gaffes today and hearing he still can't raise as much cash

as either Obama or Clinton, I think he should be comfortable with the idea of going back to the Senate.

Campaign Cash on hand:

McCain- $8 Mil.

Clinton- $30 Mil.

Obama- $38 Mil.

McCain's the presumptive Republican nominee and that's the best he can do among Republican donors???????

[Life Long Dem]

46. Wow! Where is his backing?

That was suppose to change once he has backing. But he can use the money now. 8 million is nothng. 5 million is raised by candidates in one day.

[LulaMay]

48. That's a positive, but this would play into his best defense-fighting 'terrorism.'

[kwenu]

97. The man sung "bomb, bomb, bomb...bomb, bomb, bIRAN!"

Justified it by saying that's the kind of stuff that Vet's do when they get together. THEN said anyone who doesn't like it needs to get a life.

That crazy coot will be as heartwarming as a sack of warm shit.

[LulaMay]

110. He has good numbers now. This would play to what people see as his strength.

[kwenu]

113. LulaMay you sound like you're trying to sell a used car. Obama will be the nominee.

[scheming daemons]

41. It means Jeremiah Wright won't ever be President.....

....shame for you Hillary folks that Obama disagrees with him... and has done so repeatedly.

[jlake]

43. It means a deafening defeat for Democrats from the top of the ticket on down.

[cali]

49. Ridiculous. First of all no one can say what will happen in the net 8

months. Secondly, try learning a little about the down ticket races. We are not going to lose the VA Senate race or the NM Senate Race or the NH Senate Race. We aren't going to lose most of the CDs that are opening up in moderate district due to puke retirements. Stop with the stupid bullshit. I think you're smarter than that.

[jlake]

53. Cali, once the RW noise machine cranks up and says that Democrats nominated

a man who hates America, this is what they're all about... blah blah blah... we will not do well.

You are smart enough to know that.

[scheming daemons]

56. We don't fear the GOP as much as you....

...and the RW has been saying it for weeks about Obama... and it's hardly hurt him at all in the polls... 3 or 4 points tops.


They're shooting their wads early... and there will be nothing left for them but repeating the same old crap for 8 months....

It doesn't work when it starts this early.


See: Bill Clinton and Gennifer Flowers.

[jlake]

58. I know you don't fear them as much as I do....

it's called being naive. And no, they haven't even started up against Obama.... just a few purrs of the engine.

[scheming daemons]

64. Not naive..... if you fear them this much, you've already lost.....

you're playing the game on their terms.... and you'll never win that game.

[jlake]

72. Okay. Don't say the adults didn't warn you when Obama gets 35% of the national vote.

[scheming daemons]

91. Don't worry... you'll get to share in the prosperity an Obama presidency brings, even as you...

...fight it every step of the way.

[jlake]

93. If Obama is elected I will be joyous.... just don't think it's a reality.

[kwenu]

109. Well, he is, in all reality, your Democratic Nominee so you need to get enthusiastic.

After all the topics you've participated in you should know by now that no one is going to tolerate Hillary unfairly becoming the nominee and the SD's won't dare oppose the pledged delegate outcome. We're going with Obama fair and square and that's just the way it's going to be.

[MediaBabe]

128. If Obama is elected I will be joyous.... just don't think it's a reality.

It bears repeating. We will all be joyous with a Democrat in the White House.

But realistically we just don't see how Obama will be able to get there. Even with the most ardent help from every person who originally supported another candidate it may be impossible to overcome the Republican media and what may end up to be the most hateful swiftboating campaign ever in America.

[BzaDem]

149. That's what I'm worried about.

Maybe not 35%, but certainly a big loss. I've been worried about this from even before pastorgate broke (partly because knowledge of his pastor's views were widespread, even if the sermons weren't on TV all the time).

I'm so sick of Obama supporters ignoring all electability posts, simply saying "he is going to win by 2-1" or whatever. If you want to have a cogent argument about electability, and have evidence to back up your assertions, then fine. But if you are just going to stick your head in the sand and be blind to any historical/statistical arguments, then please do us all a favor and go away. Thank you.

[LulaMay]

60. That's a foolish downfall to underestimate what they are capable of, and how people can react.

[scheming daemons]

67. If you fear them, you've lost the race already. Play the game on OUR terms, not theirs....

...that's what Obama's speech was about on Tuesday.... and you missed the point.

[LulaMay]

74. I think you are very cocky, and refusing to consider the pitfalls.

[scheming daemons]

86. 5 years of war have caused middle America to tune the GOP out...

50% of Americans identify themselves as Democrats

31% of Americans identify themselves as Republicans


This is a new high for the gap between self-identification.


The Fox News/Hannity/Limbaugh crap doesn't work like it used to. If it did, John McCain would have never won the GOP nomination in the first place.


Pay attention to what is going on in America.


2008 is not 2004.... and for you Hillary supporters, it CERTAINLY is not 1996 anymore.

[LulaMay]

112. They still fear terrorism. That's what it will play to. There are a lot of IN voters.

[cali]

62. oh please. no one can say this will happen or that will happen

about something that far in the future. And lord knows there is no one the might wurlitzer loves to savage more than hilly. let me tell you a little something, my financial whiz kid brother is convinced we'll be in a full fledged depression by November. This is someone who's made a shitload of money by predicting what will happen. He's going so far as to buy a home in Canada. If he's right, John McCain doesn't stand a chance.

[jlake]

77. Your brother is almost certainly right about the economy. But I don't agree with your

views on how that plays out in the GE.

[cali]

96. Americans trust dems on the economy by a wide marging

even in good times. It's huge in bad times. I'm right on this, particularly with McCain as the candidate.

[shimmergal]

180. If your brother's right but

Mitt Romney is the GOP VP candidate, McCain might still stand a chance.

Too many Americans have an irrational belief that so called "business leaders" know how to deal with economic crises.

[LulaMay]

54. What we can say is that Republican's will use this.

[scheming daemons]

61. Maybe we should quit fearing Republicans so much....

Since 2004... people self-identifying themselves as Republicans has fallen to just 31% of the population.

People self-identifying as Democrats has reason to just under 50%.


It's not 2004 anymore.... and the American people aren't buying the Rovian bullshit anymore.



The GOP started too early this time.... and that never works..... just like it didn't with Bill Clinton and Gennifer Flowers. By the time the GE came around, nobody wanted to listen to it anymore.


Same thing here. This is happening WAY TOO EARLY to help McCain. America will be desensitized to it by the time the conventions roll around.

[cali]

68. Yes, and they'll use shit against hilly to

like her stupid lie about being under fire. And all the old stuff and Giustra, Hsu and Gupta. Hilly is just as much a target as Obama but she has zero teflon.

[LulaMay]

76. What do you think American's will fear more? "Old HRC stuff" or "God Damn America"?

[scheming daemons]

87. If the race is about "fear"... the Democrats can't win, no matter who our nominee is.... you just...

...don't get it.


Quit succumbing to GOP fear tactics. You're EXACTLY the kind of person they target with them. Don't fall for the crap.


Repeatedly, as 2006 is evidence, the fear tactics of the GOP are working less and less.


Don't fall for it anymore.

[cali]

92. Obama didn't say that and what you fail to grasp is that Americans

over half of them are conditioned to hate hillary. All it take is a prod to light up those areas of the brain that hate her. And there's plenty of new stuff. Add to that that she's plain out unappealing and unlikable to the majority and has NO charisma whatsoever, and no teflon. Everything sticks to her. She's more of a risk than Obama and she's done anyway. I know you guys don't understand that but it's true. Her odds of winning the nomination are very, very slim. And watch more and more SDs come out for Obama. They want to end this.

[LulaMay]

116. What about the topic?

[MediaBabe]

132. Middle America won't even hesitate.

People here just refuse to understand what impact the behind the scene "God Damn America" email campaign will have on the general public. It will generate profound dislike and no one on the fence will sway Obama's way.

[LulaMay]

158. It's reality. I want some answers about what Dem's plan to do if Obama is the nominee.

[LulaMay]

160. Why don't they care?! It's like believing your house can't burn down with a lit match,

and not putting in smoke alarms because you're so sure that will never be.

[gcomeau]

52. Let's get human

What does taking the fear of a Republican use of "God Dam America" in a smear campaign against a candidate of character and integrity and allowing it to prevent us from supporting that man for the presidency mean for us as a people, a party and a nation?

I would consider that the more important question, but that's just me.

[EFerrari]

55. More rightwing crap.

You've never even taken the time to see the unFoxed video of the Reverend Wright, have you?

[LulaMay]

63. You never discuss, just harass. So, welcome to Ignore.

[EFerrari]

65. You pretty much ignore any question I raise anyway.

lol

[Cooley Hurd]

73. Great cruise, bad cruise... Lula's all over the map...

:D

[EFerrari]

81. Well, I've noticed I'm cranky as hell lately and I'll own it.

Hopefully, we will settle down once we have a candidate, which can't be soon enough for me. :hi:

[LulaMay]

122. Avoid the topic. I explained my emotional reaction to the cruise, & why I tried to see the positive

at 1st. It was my vacation with my husband. I didn't want to feel it was a total loss and ruined memories.

It didn't work to just stuff the REALLY BAD, so I finally got it out.

I never contradicted myself on any of the details, happenings I wrote about.

Big whoop.

You have nothing to say about what I wrote.

[libbygurl]

137. You obviously missed Lula May's note at the bottom of the post. But you don't care.

So long as you can stomp on any post by someone who does not worship that perfect candidate you have put upon a pedestal, for unmerited reasons. Nevermind.

[Skidmore]

59. It means the 20% of the jingoistic Freeper neocon voters will

not vote for Obama. Small loss. I assume your next question will be about wearing flag pins.

[LulaMay]

71. I think you are underestimating the RW machine, and how this can play to peoples fear of 'terrorism

rather than simply racism.

[Bluerthanblue]

85. I think your suggestion that voting for Hillary because of this is pandering

to lazy, fear-based, bigots.

If America won't vote for Obama because of the medias twisted slander, please don't fool yourself into believing they will let Hillary get the house.

Ignorance isn't bliss- it is willful blind bigotry- when used as you are chosing to use it here.

peace~

[LulaMay]

117. No, I'm saying it should be discussed seriously. There's no one to pander to here, much I guess.

[Skidmore]

139. AKA the "neoconned"--those who have been convinced by * and Cheney

that a dirty A-rab is lurking behind the lilac bush in their yard ready to lob a grenade at any moment. It is time to educate them. Color coded alerts and duct tape don't make the world safe and there is no such thing as risk-free. Wearing the American flag like a talisman doesn't make the nation stronger any more than reciting the Pledge of Allegiance like prayer. The nation needs to get real and it would be nice to have a leader that didn't prey on people's fears and maniuplate them. Someone who treats the citizenry like adults.

BTW, I consider Hillary a neocon and an extension of the RW machine. Perhaps McCain will pick her as a VP.

[Perry Logan]

78. I think the Wright thing will actually HELP us.

Crazed optimist that I am, I'll bet Obama's connection to Wright will help us more than hurt us in the GE.

I say this because I think Americans connect to Wright's anger and are not at all horrified by it.

The Right would never believe this--and few would want to admit it--but I'll bet at least 80% of Americans have thought or felt "God damn America" in the last eight years. If you haven't been enraged by what America has become under Republican misrule, you're probably a winger--and they don't need Rev. Wright to hate Obama.

In other words, Wright's anger will have far more resonance--infinitely more--than the Republicans or their compliant media might care to admit. That's my theory. If Obama runs, and they play Wright's words again and again, it will help us more than hurt us. Most people will come to rightly feel the Republicans are picking on Obama. Ambivalence about America may not be an acceptable topic in the media, or amongt wingers, but it's an undeniable part of most Americans' hearts--especially after the prolonged, sadistic rape of 2000-2006.

[LulaMay]

90. I agree, you're a crazy optimist. I think you're dead wrong that many people aren't horrified at it.

[soundguy]

79. God Damn America-Pro Hammas/ Anti Israel

Uh,,,,,,,,Hello.....Anyone left with half an objective brain. A lot of people of all walks of life do not like this. It will be a death kiss for the General. McCain will have to denounce any 527 ad but not that enthusiastically. And this is a 527 dream come true. Anyone here ever play poker? I think I could make a killing off of the Obamatrons.

[greyghost]

95. They are going to beat this like a drum 24-7.

[bridgit]

80. It's an Americanized version of the Radical Islam's "Death To America!!"

[LulaMay]

114. That's what I'm afraid of. It rings way, way too close.

[lligrd]

83. Simple, It Means We Don't March In Lock Step When Our

Country is doing wrong.

[MediaBabe]

133. However Republicans do vote in lockstep

Don't think they'll be easy to overcome. "God Damn America" Once some folks hear that their brain will swell with rage and nothing else will enter.

[LulaMay]

140. I am amazed how some people are shrugging this off. Do they forget who Rethugs are?

what lengths they'll go to?

And this couldn't be a more incendiary remark. The Rethugs will draw a direct line to Obama with it.

I can't believe people the denial people are in.


If people believe there is a way to overcome it, I wish they'd start talking about it. Because I think it's deadly for Democrats.

[EffieBlack]

176. Yes - we know exactly who and what Republicans are

And that's why it makes no sense to cave in to them in advance out of fear of what they might try to do to us.

I don't see or hear them wringing their hands worrying about all of the mean things Demcrats might say about them in the general. Why are you wasting so much time and effort worrying about THEM?

Your insistence that this matter be "discussed" is rather interesting. Where have you been? You apparently haven't been paying attention during the last year as Democrats have been doing little BUT discussing this issue. And we're not just discussing it - we're VOTING on it. And as much as it seems to rankle you, a majority of Democrats who have voted have decided that they think that Obama is the best candidate to beat McCain.

Why do you think your fellow Democrats are so stupid that we need you to lecture us about what we should be discussing as if the arguments you're making have never occurred to us. We are just as knowledgeable about the issues, Republicans and politics as you are - we just don't happen to agree with you.

Rather than continuing to badger us as if we're idiots who haven't thought this through, maybe you should go organize a "Draft Lieberman" campaign - after all, he's probably the only Democrat who is likely to escape the Republicans' wrath.

[LulaMay]

141. Maybe they'd rather lose than give it any credence. Well, I don't want to lose! I have sons who

could be drafted.

[lligrd]

183. Into The War Hillary Voted To Let Happen??

I don't see how you can forgive her for that!

[DemGa]

84. It means BO is polarizing and divisive -- he's united the opposition --NT

[rodeodance]

107. yes. he is. and now we have another story.

[LulaMay]

115. I think Republicans are very happy to have this in their pocket.

[DemGa]

131. Obama provides the ultimate in fuel for right-wing attacks -- nt

[LulaMay]

148. I think Wright's remark is a death knell, and I'm scared.

[Liberal Gramma]

88. So...are you suggesting that we run Candidate #2 instead?

No matter who our candidate is, the RW is going to attack. It's what they do. I think we should run the candidate who can offset the ignorant Fox-watching voter with thousands of new, young, enthusiastic Democrats. Only one candidate has this particular quality.

[LulaMay]

144. I'm saying this issue is incendiary as it gets, and we'd better take it seriously.

If Democrats shrug this off, are cocky about it, I think we will be absolutely unprepared and lose.

We may lose no matter what we do, I think it's that bad, but at least start talking about it!


I don't want to lose. I have 2 sons and I don't want them ending up in Iran.

It's serious to me.


And I just don't think that voters are going to care about Monica Lewinsky or old Bill Clinton junk like they could react to this.

[Liberal Gramma]

159. I don't want your sons ending up in Iran, either

Or any other mother's sons. That said, we appear to disagree on the best way to accomplish this.

[Buddyblazon]

94. Hey...Lula May

Aren't you the one that totally insulted all of us Colorado constituents and basically told us (in so many words) that we didn't matter.

I'll vote for whomever the candidate happens to be.

But you should know you've gone an awful long way in alienating fellow Dems. Even those of us that will work in our state for YOUR candidate if she gets the nomination.

At this point...your word is mud. Maybe it's time you stop posting it...and perhaps you'll garner more support.

[1776Forever]

98. Must not mean as much as some wishes it would - Obama up in all but PA today.......

Total Delegates 1628 - 1496 Obama + 132
Pledged Delegates 1414 - 1246 Obama + 168
Popular Vote 49.5 - 46.9 Obama +2.6
Popular Vote (w/FL) 48.5 - 47.1 Obama +1.4
Nat'l RCP Average 47.3 - 44.2 Obama +3.1
Pennsylvania 35.2 - 51.8 Clinton +16.6
North Carolina 46.7 - 41.3 Obama +5.4

[txaslftist]

100. Hey, whoa. Stop with the facts. Obama is all but finished.

Didn't you know?

Why, after Pennsylvania, he'll be lucky if Hillary lets him be her shoeshine boy.

[LulaMay]

106. I'm talking about the GE.

[zulchzulu]

102. All you need to know about the Wright story in the GE

1. Obama is going to be the nominee.

2. If McCain (who has already said it doesn't matter) brings up Wright, the Obama campaign brings up Hagee...and Parsley...and Robertson. That trap would alientate Catholics, Jews, Blacks, Women and Independents. Bringing up Wright would be McCain's Damacles Sword.

[Vinca]

104. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. nt

[rodeodance]

111. You do not know that Obama will be the nominee. You hope he will be. that is all

[zulchzulu]

171. I will wager $1000 that Obama WILL be the nominee

Do you have PayPal?

Let's see what you think now.

[LulaMay]

119. McCain himself won't have to do it. It's not about religios disagreement, it will play to terrorism

fears and people's feelings about anti-americanism.

That's my concern.

[zulchzulu]

174. I think (short of an attack on US before the election) that voters are fear-fatigued

It will be easy to paint McCain as a fearmonger who is for endless war over spending our money on our own country. Sure, there will be the Fox News voter but the overwhelming amount of other voters will come out and overpower the fear gamers.

[zabet]

118. K and R

For the truth! :patriot:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

121. Doesn't mean a God Damned thing to me.

But, it's worth a shrug of indifference to a typical politics-as-usual campaign.

[LulaMay]

123. But it can, likely will, to many voters. I think it's foolish to "shrug" at what's to come.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

129. What do you suggest we do?

We have two "moderate" candidates, who are only slightly left of the McLooney, slinging shit at each other. Which is hardly anything new, and they are highly unlikely to discontinue doing so if every past election is any indicator.

A pox on all their houses.

[LulaMay]

138. Talk to voters more about what they are thinking. Prepare for Rethug attacks, not shrug them off.

[superkia]

127. All of your words mean nothing! The voters have a choice to...

make this time around. We can either continue to vote on spin and continue in a downward spiral or we can educate ourselves on vote for some actual change in this country. You are kidding yourself if you think that the super delegates are going to be allowed to steal the nomination from the people and give it to Clinton, that is if the voters continue to vote the way they have been.


Too many Americans lives have personally been effected negatively by our governments care for the wealthy and their not caring about the rest, I don't see America sitting back and allowing this to be stolen from them again, knowing how bad our country will be if we continue on its path.


McCain has moved in the polls because the media and THE CLINTONS have been telling us how great McCain is and THE CLINTONS have used their typical negative, spin and throw the sink campaign tactics that we are all used to and the media has been running with it all.


The elite would love to have Clinton in office and if they cant have her, they need to have McCain. As the voters have beem showing, Obama is the candidate for change so the game is just to destroy him as much as possible and promote McCain. Anyone who supports Clinton after what she has been doing to divide the party, obviously has trouble seeing reality. Wake up before we have just another career politician taking care of the rich.

I am sorry to tell you but your way of thinking is the past and Americans want to move forward, so if you want to stay in the past...that is YOUR choice.

[LulaMay]

134. It is not going to help us to shrug off serious issues and ignore what political strategy theyll use

It's a prescription for loss.

[superkia]

161. So is accepting the weaker candidate, I think your perception...

of what the candidates represent and what the American people want and need at this point in history are off. I refuse to give up because I am afraid of a smear tactic that the republicans will try, I would rather give my all for the right thing to do and fight for whats right for us. Instead of posting what you did, I would rather fight to educate people on the bullshit tactics and educate them on what Obama offers versus what McCain offers. Clinton is still fighting and will until she feels she has done enough damage to Obama so McCain can win and thats her choice but I would hope that Americans are smarter than that.

This defeatist attitude I see allot doesn't change America, we need to stand and fight!

[LulaMay]

163. WHAT do you/we plan to do about it?!! Is the question. You'd rather just lose?

I'm not into taking those kind of 'chances' when I have sons who I don't want ending up in Iran.

[superkia]

189. So you believe that Americans will vote for McCain or should I...

say bush jr? I think America is finally awake and ready to end this mess and I believe in the American citizens to do the right thing this time. I know the media would have you believe that McCain is the one and the polls say this or that but the same media and polls told us that the GE was Giuliani versus Clinton and the American people have shown them that they don't want to walk around like sheep anymore. May you haven't woke up yet and you are still in the herd but you will come around.

Clinton has divided, McCain has done nothing and at least Obama has motivated people to get involved, which by the way, is the only way we will ever have change in this country. So if you are like me and concerned with your childrens future, I would hope you would join the one candidate that wants all Americans involved and paying attention. Please wake up before its too late, your attitude only serves the media and the Clintons...not the people!

[sueragingroz]

130. Let's see

We have anti-semitism from Farrakhan.....

anti-semitism from Wright...

hmm.......

oh that's right. :obama wasn't in the pews that day...

:eyes:

[libbygurl]

136. K & R for good sense and reality-based questions. nt

[LulaMay]

142. Thank you. If this isn't taken seriously, we will lose. I have sons and I don't want them in IRAN.

Even if Obama is the nominee, people had better start taking it seriously and talking with him about what the strategy is to beat it.

Shrugging it off isn't going to help.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

143. The Clintons' Saudi and UAE links are more worrying

[LulaMay]

147. Wright's remark is the worst soundbite we could give Rethugs, the WORST.

I have been so upset, because people don't seem to be taking this seriously, aren't discussing it, and I don't want Dem's to lose. What are we going to DO about it if Obama is the nominee??!! He's been seriously damaged by it, the polls still show it, even after his speech.

I have sons and I don't want them in Iran.

[Texas Hill Country]

151. it means a friggin lot.

[kikiek]

154. Thanks for being brave and providing valuable information.

[Texas Hill Country]

156. HOLY SHIT!!! I did not know about this one???????? We are so friggin screwed.

[LulaMay]

162. I believe there could be more. I just want to know what Dem's plan to do if Obamas the nominee.

I don't think it will matter, because I believe it's a death knell, but at least give it due importance and talk about it!

What is all this cockiness about?

[LulaMay]

166. "My former pastor" & "I wasn't in church" just isn't going to cut it. I want answers

from Dem's, Obama supporters, WHAT the counter plan to the firestorm campaign Rethugs are going to launch against him with this stuff?

[Mezzo]

165. it means President McCain, and the Obamamaniacs know it. nt

[LulaMay]

168. I'm so angry. They won't even discuss it. They don't seem to care. Well, I care.

[anonymous171]

172. For my response see "kerry '04"

Electability isn't all important. It's the ability to energize and mobilize the voters and the candidate's base to vote for them. Obama has that. Anyway, the MSM will eventually get bored with this anyway.

[LulaMay]

179. Saying this doesn't matter is no answer! It's foolhardy to believe this will not be used.

or that the 'MSM' which has been biased for Obama can call or control elections for us.

Rethugs will do what they always do: Launch their campaigns with side groups, e-mails, letters, paid for advertisements.

I cannot believe some of you who seem to be purposely refusing to think about this.

"kerry '04"????

They knocked down his campaign in just this way.

I thought we LEARNED from that experience.

I am furious that any Dem's, Obama supporters, refuse to discuss this, shrug it off.


You have no right to be so cavalier with this election.

[Steely_Dan]

181. LulaMay Is Exactly Right...

She is bringing up a serious and real concern. After reading through all of the responses, it is clear that many (not all) Obama supporters are letting their passion over-ride their reason. I cannot think of a worse statement that can be used against Mr. Obama than "God damn America."

And don't say that it doesn't matter because he (Obama) is not the one to say it. The typical voter does not educate themselves on politics they way we do here on this board. They are used to sound bites and one-liners like...."God damn America." This will be played over and over and over again.

I WISH IT WEREN'T SO. Do I need to repeat that? I WISH IT WEREN'T SO. But wishing it weren't so doesn't change the reality that is right before us. We are taking a chance trying to make Presidential history when we should have tried to get our bearings back. Now we will have to fight battles that we didn't have to fight. We took an election that should have been a shoe-in for the Dems and we have made it into a horse race.

When it comes to the electorate, "fear" trumps everything else. The RW will place fear in the hearts of the less intelligent and unsophisticated. WE may know the truth, but the general public will suck anything in that furthers their fear.

I hope and pray that I am WRONG. But I have been around too long and seen too many elections not to apply my sense of reason to this situation. I (and others) can only conclude that we have handed to the RW more ammunition than they will ever need to discredit and cast Mr. Obama in the most unfavorable light possible...all based on fear.

Just remember..."God damn America." You will see this in some form on bumper stickers all over this country.

-P

[DemBones DemBones]

185. Yes, and the Obama crowd is in deep denial about it.

Let's remember that Obama also threw his white grandmother under the bus and said she was racist, like the "typical white person."

He's a fool, like his mentor, Wright.

[LulaMay]

192. I am so upset at the denial over this. Thank you for your post.

[jgraz]

211. I love seeing the Clinton crowd complain about denial

What's next? Accusing Obama of playing the vicitm?

Oh wait, you did that too.

[EFerrari]

198. How out of it can you people be.

Obama didn't say that.

His pastor didn't originate it.

Rev. Wright was QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE while giving a sermon on peace making. And that can be verified by a transcript at Faux.

This information has been on this forum for two days now. But, why let facts stand in your way. Go ahead and continue to tar your next Democratic candidate. That'll really help us in November!

It scares me that many of you may drive and also operate small appliances without a helper.

[RememberWellstone]

190. Too late

Damage is done..might as well try to re-build New Orleans after Katrina, you have a better chance of undoing the damage.

[LulaMay]

194. I'm afraid you're right. Not one person had an answer except it won't matter.

[Up2Late]

191. Good Questions.

:popcorn:

[crankychatter]

193. deleted

This is YOUR LEVEL

CLINTON'S LEVEL

not Obama's

WHY ARE YOU STILL HARPING ABOUT THIS?

[crankychatter]

195. Clinton ACCUSED 12 year old RAPE VICTIM of WANTING IT

actually this is the one that was true

edit done

either way it stinks and IF OBAMA HAD DONE THIS WE'D BE HEARING IT ALL DAY LONG FROM YOU PEOPLE

you're totally slimey and don't even know it

[LulaMay]

201. I have alerted your slander. You cannot make such accusations without proof. It's illegal.

[crankychatter]

204. I have the links

and I'm prepared to show them but I'm not going to do your research for you

this is what YOU PEOPLE do

vile and slanderous misrepresentations

You are just like Rove

[rasputin1952]

215. Ancient history, story has been bebunked 50x...she was doing

her job as a Public Defender.

[LulaMay]

196. You don't get it, do you?

[crankychatter]

199. I get it

I don't post disgusting and lurid statements like the above ANYWHERE, yet alone DU

those are examples of what it would be like if Obama supporters acted like Clinton supporters in here...

YOU are the one that doesn't GET IT...

Those statements are factual, but I don't feel like mudwrestling in shit with freeper operatives

[LulaMay]

202. Where is your source for this, and your very serious charge about Pres. Clinton below?

[OzarkDem]

197. This would sink him if he makes it to the GE

Guaranteed. That's why party leaders and superdelegates are worried.

GOP has also said they would use Obama's lack of experience - an issue that really resonates with voters.

[LulaMay]

206. I'm very worried, and not encouraged by the type of crazed, hostile responses like those here

accusing Pres. Clinton of approving of child rape.

[LulaMay]

207. Is this what it has come to for some Obama supporters? It's hopeless in that event.

[crankychatter]

203. What does "The Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon" mean for McCain in the GE?

hm?

[LulaMay]

205. I am putting you on ignore for your serious accusations about Pres. Clinton. You have no interest

in discussing this topic, and are making very serious charges that are slander.

[anonymous171]

214. Can you read?

[LulaMay]

208. The question is what affect will this have? What could we DO about it? They will certainly use it.

[jgraz]

212. OK, let's get real. What would be happening right now if Hillary had an insurmountable lead?

(Aside from every Clintonite on this board screaming for Obama to drop out, that is.)

Instead of turning itself into the Rev. Wright Channel, Faux Snooze would be running 24/7 stories on the fact that Hillary was in the White House while Bill was being "serviced" by Monica. It would be blow jobs morning, noon and night.

Don't even try to pretend that the Clintons don't have 10x the baggage that Obama does. We were all around for the 90's.

[Recursion]

213. The Hamas thing was in the LA Times and Washington Post

I suppose we have to stop reading those papers now?

I wonder how much you actually know about Hamas?