A true coalition of progressives and liberals is forming to retake the Democratic Party

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

from DINOS and the media.

This group doesn't give a hoot about the media circus and right wing hack/flacks decreeing declaring OUR candidate "unelectable".

Says who? Rank and file progressives and liberals have seen their party become the Republican lite alternative when we convince ourselves that we have to choose the most "electable" candidate. To what end? You could have a modern incarnation of FDR, Eisenhower and Einstein and the smear machine would still find a way to brand them as weak, cowardly and stupid.

This is THE moment to throw off the shackles of the cabal that sucessfully swiftboated Kerry and show the world

WE ARE SMARTER NOW, WE ARE STRONGER NOW AND WE DON'T CARE WHO THE CORPORATE MEDIA SAYS WE MUST VOTE FOR.

[thoughtcrime1984]

1. DAMN STRAIGHT!!

What you said!! :toast:

[LakeSamish706]

2. This is awesome, and now my only concern is can this group wrestle power...

from the Bush Cabal come January 20, 2009? Will these thugs do something between now and then that would keep them in the WH beyond this time frame? VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT!

[mac2]

3. Were's the candidate?

[LakeSamish706]

4. Sorry, don't understand your question! n/t

[grannylib]

7. I think s/he meant, "Where's the candidate"

[mac2]

8. If we are making great progress as Progressives in the

Democratic Party where is the candidate? Neither Obama or Clinton voted for Progressive issues in the Congress. Where is the Progressive candidate for President in 2008?

[tekisui]

11. They will be pushed Progressive by a charged electorate and

A New Majority in the House and Senate.

[mac2]

15. That's what we thought in 2006.

Never happened.

[tekisui]

18. Chimpy the veto and Puke Obstructionist

prevented it, if it were to happen.


A New Majority and a amenable Dem in the WH will greatly change the equation.

[mac2]

24. I don't see the candidates even taking about the 2006

election mandate by the people of getting out of Iraq and doing accountability hearings on 911, robbery, and National Health Care. What about our rights back?

Senator Dorgan was on CSPAN talking about the contractors robbery in Iraq but no one goes to jail.

[tekisui]

25. They have held many, many investigations.

Crimes are well document. I share your anger and disgust that actions haven't been taken to arrest the War Criminals and the Violators of the Constitution.

[mac2]

29. Nope they prevented testimony and documents.

Bush picked the 911 Commission committees. He and Cheney refused to testify or release important documents, tapes, etc. need to see it through properly. The questions of the 911 Families (and many Americans) remain unanswered.

http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html One of many lists on the Internet.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. They have a website?

Any place where I could sign up?

[grannylib]

6. So how do I sign up, and what'll it take to get Kucinich elected?

[mac2]

9. Or Edwards?

[grannylib]

10. I'd gladly vote for John Edwards and not cosider it "settling"

I was so disappointed when he suspended his campaign. What a great President he'd make, and what a classy, intelligent, strong First Lady she'd be...wow.

[Road Scholar]

13. AMEN!!!!! nt

[crankychatter]

12. I'm clueless... wuzza "Dino?"

Half the party is conservative. Have you noticed on here they call Obama supporters "Lefties?" WTF is that?

Left, since Dean, has been redefined as being anti-MilitaryIndustrial Complex... anti STUPID war.

Dean is not a liberal... but he sure got labelled one for opposing the war.

Now I have to ask, if half the people in the Party think Clinton is "liberal," who you gonna have a coalition WITH?

Just playing the Devil's advocate here.

[grannylib]

19. And it's a good role to play - the media and the Pukes have been

trying to drag people to the Reich for years; some of the positions Nixon took would now be considered liberal or even progressive - but when questions on issues are asked in a neutral, non-partisan fashion, most people have liberal/progressive views on issues overall.
So yeah, the labeling is way off, and you're right, how do we build that coalition, and build it fast? Greens, independents, others, neither, hmmm...what do YOU think?? Where would you start?

[crankychatter]

21. Public Campaign Financing

I have Christian Fundamentalist neighbors right here in extremely rural Kansas, that would get on a Harley and go to DC for a Million Voter March for Clean Elections.... that's one

Just for starters.

[Peace Patriot]

37. Yup, I would start with the voting machines, take 'em all to 'Boston Harbor' and

dump 'em in.

It's the most important thing we need to do, to get reform started. We simply don't know the "will of the people", currently--except by studying a variety of polls (big progressive majorities on most issues through most of the Bush presidency--at least since late 2002, as far back as I've studied them, including polls on the war!), and anecdotal--talking to people. The election results don't reflect the People. That's clear. But what the hell should we expect from voting machines run on trade secret, proprietary programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls? Bush, Bushites, "Blue Dog" Democrats. fascism and war--the "will" of people like Howard Ahmanson, a far rightwing billionaire who is the initial funder, and major investor, in ES&S (brethren to Diebold), who also donated one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon foundation, which touts the death penalty for homosexuals (among other things). Clearly, we are getting his choices, not the Peoples' choices. And those of Wally O'Dell, the CEO of Diebold, 2002-2005, a Bush/Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer" right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush/Cheney in 2004." And those of Sequoia--the third big election theft industry player--who hired California Sec of State, Republican Bill Jones, to peddle their machines, after Jones peddled Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia voting machines to California.

There are a lot of things that are screwing up our elections--and denying the People representation--but I think this one takes the cake, and it's where we have to start, in putting our democracy back together.

[crankychatter]

22. People want Representative Government BACK

It's just a fact... every single issue, that matters to the under-represented majority of Americans, is traceable back to the evil symbiosis between lobby's and elected officials.

Old school conservatives, even social conservatives... will nod their heads in full agreement when I say...

"Transnational corporations and foreign governments should not enjoy super-citizen status and access to our elected officials."

with few exceptions

[Peace Patriot]

40. That's certainly tracks with various polls I've been watching since late 2002.

Some of the most startling are the Feb 03 polls, just before the war, showing 56% of the American people opposed to the invasion of Iraq (NYT poll; other polls 54-55%). A lot of people don't realize that a significant majority of Americans opposed the war from the beginning. (56% would be a landslide in a presidential election--and believe me it was, in 04). The anti-war numbers dipped during the invasion itself--with U.S. troops at max risk (understandable)--and then started their climb up to the staggering, unprecedented anti-war majority today (60+ to 70%!). And we have an election (so-called) in 06, in which the people say that the war is their biggest issue, and what do we get? We get a Congress that is the opposite of the American people--that escalates the war, and lards Bush/Cheney with billions more of our tax dollars to keep killing Iraqis until they sign over their oil rights. 60+ to 70% of the people opposed to the war and wanting it ended, and 60-70% of Congress is in favor of the war and keeps funding it.

What's. Wrong. With. This. Picture?

I think it's mostly the voting machines. They keep giving us the opposite of what we vote for. Yeah, corrupt money and media stack the deck against us, for sure. But what makes it impossible to move this political establishment--the way democracy is supposed to be able to change, reform and move forward--the thing that totally blockades reform--is rightwing corporate control of the new (put in place in 02-04), privatized, "trade secret" code voting system.

We can overcome the money corruption--with thousands of small donations and internet fundraising. We showed we can in 04, in 06, and again in the Obama campaign. And we can overcome the media as well, through our new "committees of correspondence," the internet, and word of mouth. Now they've put this final obstacle in place--this extremely insider hackable vote counting system, in which we are not allowed to count our votes in public view. They can easily switch votes. EASILY! There are almost no controls in place to prevent it. And the people who own and control the code are rightwing extremists (ES&S) and big-time Republican/Bushite partisans (Diebold, Sequoia).

But probably the thing that is most disturbing (I mean, we've come to expect crime from Republicans), and our biggest problem, is that our own Democratic Party leadership supported these non-transparent, rightwing-controlled voting machines, and still support them and cover up for them. Their line is, just provide a "paper trail" and everything will be okay. It's a bit late, considering what-all this fascist junta has done to us and to others. And a "paper trail" absolutely does not produce verified elections...unless they count the paper! And many states do zero counting, paper trail or no paper trail, and the rest do 1% (totally inadequate for a "trade secret" code system).

This is the ugly reality that we must face--our own party leaders betrayed us on this, and are still doing so. We can expect no help from Congress. They are absolutely in collusion on it. We have to get it done--restore transparent vote counting--by pressure at the local/state level (where ordinary people still have some influence)--county by county, state by state. That is happening--big citizen movements all over the country, but it takes time. The global corporate predators and war profiteers who are destroying our country--and to whom our political leaders are beholden--have time on their side. What we have on our side is numbers--people power--and a lot of patriotic, wonderful people who have stood up on this matter, and on other important issues. We will win it, I'm sure. We will take our country back--but not before more damage is done to it--which we are seeing the outlines of now--economic depression and more war (probably an oil war against South American democracies, not an attack on Iran--but who knows? We have no control of our leaders.).

[crankychatter]

23. The War and Civil Liberty

I know men so right wing, they think Bush is a liberal. I mean people that have cache's of weapons buried in the desert... that have VOWED never to vote Republican again, since the Invasion of Iraq.

Anti-warriors

I read all the time and enjoy talking with conservative Civil Libertarians.

We have SO many potential allies on various issues.

For all the contempt we express for Corporate Media, we base our characterizations of those from elsewhere on the political spectrum, from that VERY SOURCE. We don't talk to our neighbors...we pidgeon hole people... don't give them a fair hearing without launching into vitriolic diatribes... we have become a nation of sociopaths... the OTHERS are cardboard caricatures of themselves to us, without nuance, depth or sensitivites.

we're assholes

Folks here and everywhere... under-informed or not, take the information they have and think for themselves. I know pro-life Liberals... Pro-Gun progressives... anti-War conservatives... mix and match... you NAME IT.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

30. The overlap of the Right and Left

definitely exists. Like when Kucinich toyed with having Ron Paul as a running mate - which I completely excoriated him for. I guess he (Kucinich)was exhibiting an inclusiveness and openness that exceeds my personal level. I actually admire Ron Paul for the confidence he exudes of being a man comfortable with his core beliefs regardless of whether anyone cares to sign on or not. He was very brave in the Republican debates when he started talking about blow-back of foreign policy culminating in 9/11. I still wouldn't want him as VP, though.

You point out that Obama's magic ingredient is his perceived "centrism". I don't personally take it as a centrism of ideas as much as a perception that his personal experience speaks to many through layers of resistance that have been impenetrable until now.

I think we are all just an amalgamation of beliefs we have picked off the buffet table of life.

Edit - I'm having problems because I am responding to 2 of your posts at once. You actually said his "genuine" centrism. I really agree wholeheartedly with what you said in that post.

[cliffordu]

14. You are exactly right.

:hi:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

17. God, I hope so.

We can't possibly let another cycle continue where the likes of Joe Scarborough, Chris Mathews, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and others of that media ilk attempt to act as "moral compasses" (as if!) and dictate what is and isn't acceptable among the electorate.

[crankychatter]

16. One of Obama's virtues is his genuine centrism

Genuine Centrism... DLC centrism is NOT genuine... it's simply a function of corruption.

Obama's "centrism" for lack of a better word is his willingness to form coalitions of diverse people, identifying shared issues and hammering out agreements... pragmatic.

I'm voting for him on values... and hoping they will manifest in policy within the corrupt framework and entrenched interests in DC.

"True progressives and liberals..." I have noticed... do NOT have Obama's tact or willingness to find virtue in, and have respect for folks from the whole spectrum.

My experience, is that ideologues are the problem, not the solution.

It's ok to have progressive ideals. The problem is progressive purists, that are incapable of compromise. They're politically marginalized by virtue of their own righteous intractability.

Give me ONE idea, that you can sell to a disgruntled Republican.

[mac2]

27. Ya we have Congress woman Melissa Bean who is a

"centrist". There is nothing "centrist" about her. She a "Democratic Light" and votes with Bush most the time.

[LWolf]

20. Really? Who is the mythical liberal/progressive candidate

that would be "our candidate?"

I certainly think it would be a great idea to retake the Democratic Party. I'm supporting liberals and progressives for state and local offices whenever there is one on my ballot to support.

I don't see a liberal/progressive on my primary ballot.

[crankychatter]

26. I'm casting MY symbolic vote for Peter Pan

growing up and getting a job is totally over rated

[LWolf]

43. Let me know how that works out for you. n/t

[mac2]

32. We had them in 2006 but the DLC wouldn't support them.

Then when Hastert is leaving office they find "a Progressive who won". They could have won in 2006 with a Progressive but he was anti-war in Iraq.

I don't see any one in Congress who is a Progressive and I live in a Progressive state.

[K Gardner]

28. Absolutely !

[workinclasszero]

31. Purge the f***in DLC'ers!!

Those neocon Bush enablers are the knife in the back to all real dems and Hillary Clinton is their leader!

[DemzRock]

33. You guys crack me up. BO and HRC are pretty close policy wise. ..

IF there was a true coalition of progressives and liberals forming to take the party, Gravel or Kucinich would be the presumptive nominee right now. Obama isn't a saint, dudes and dudettes. He's just a strong talker. I will vote for him over McBush, but I really don't see why you think he's such great stuff. He's just a man and a politician with flaws.

[stevietheman]

38. on domestic policy, yes, on foreign policy, no way. n/t

n/t

[backscatter712]

39. Policy-wise, they're not much different.

The difference is that I believe Obama when he makes a policy statement, but given Hillary's history of being economical with the truth, when she makes a policy statement, I don't know that she's not blowing smoke up our asses.

[mtnsnake]

34. If that was true, then Dennis Kucinich would get the support he deserves, instead of DLCish Obama

Not only does DK NOT get any support to be our candidate, but he doesn't even make a dent. Until we can support someone like Kucinich, our Party will never be as progressive as it would like to think it is.

People always run down Hillary for being DLC...well, Barack Obama's platform has DLC written all over parts of it, especially with his "Reach out to Republicans" theme, a theme that his close friend, DLC chairmamn Harold Ford, is proud of. I guess that's why so many DLC'ers are endorsing Obama lately, even though Barack isn't a card carrying member.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

35. Please note that I said "is forming"

Not "has formed".

This is me practicing "affirmation action". If I say it, it will be so. :D

[mtnsnake]

36. Cool. Let's hope you're right

;)

[opihimoimoi]

41. Yup, I iz in......:toast:

:toast: :bounce:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

42. Many are in!

I feel the earth move under my feet!

:toast:

Some days I almost feel it coming through the television, the radio, the air.

After the Dark Ages, there WAS an Enlightenment.