Why doesn't Sen. Clinton want a caucuses in MI and FL

[Changenow]

For all her recently discovered outrage about the "disinfranchisment" of those two states, the fact remains Clinton only wants the voters to be heard on her terms. Now it may be true she is a victim if any decision isn't what she wanted, but close your eyes an imagine the unbridled outrage from Cliontonites if the states had caucuses rather than the primaries which limit much of the vote to Clinton supporters.

To Clinton supporters the only rules that are fair benefit their candidate, and compromise is defined as capitulation.

[dkf]

1. Its all about her and how she can win.

She isn't interested in having the people vote, just in her winning. What a crock.

[Tyler Durden]

30. We know who blocked our redo.

It's all over the local papers and news. Michigan Campaign Obama INSISTED on a Caucus, something we don't do here for good reasons.

If Obama gets the nod, if I were him, I'd just write Michigan off. Save your money, sport. There are some seriously ANGRY people here.

Shit, I'm having a hard time convincing MY WIFE to vote Democratic Party in the Fall if he gets it. She told me she's going to write in Gore.

[revolve]

52. We sure as hell have caucuses here

We had one in 2004.

[Tyler Durden]

83. Guess that primary I VOTED in was just magic.

We vote for DELEGATES. Or have you forgotten? Maybe I'm just getting too old for this shit.

Maybe I'll just swear off, like I've heard a LOT of Michigan Democrats say over the years. You're doing a fine job of supporting the state, by the way.

[Tesha]

58. Actually, one of the big problems inyour state was figuring out how to treat the Republican voters..

Actually, one of the big problems in your state was figuring
out how to treat the Republican voters. Because there was
no real contest on the Democratic side, a lot of Independents
and a few Ds crossed over and voted in the Republican Primary.
And now if there's a Democratic re-vote, because they voted
as Rs back then, they *WON'T* be permitted to vote as Ds now.

This may unfairly dis-enfranchise a set of voters who,
under normal circumstances, would have voted in the Democratic
Primary in the first place (had there been a real, valid race).

Tesha

[Tyler Durden]

96. How about being honest in the first place?

Hey, I realize this sort of thing is "out of style," but I'm a DEMOCRAT. I vote in DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES. I don't vote for REPUBLICANS. I have NEVER voted for a REPUBLICAN.

I consider it DISHONEST to say "I'm a Republican," when I'm not. Up until recently, I used this in my sig line:



BUSH LIED. Should I do the same thing? Do the ENDS justify the MEANS? The Republicans have gamed the system since 1992, and I will be DAMNED if I will put myself in their league by pissing on my own ethics.

I teach my children not to lie.

[gayron]

2. Same reason Obama does not want a Primary

he does not want every one to have a say in the primary!

[olkaz]

3. Oh, lord, just stop it.

Everybody knew last year that this election in Michigan wouldn't count.

LAST FREAKING YEAR. ALL OVER THE NEWS. EVERYBODY KNEW. EVERYBODY.

God, this is such a low hurdle.

[Tyler Durden]

7. Obviously you aren't from Michigan.

Lot of anger here. Get ready for WAR this fall, and it didn't have to happen.

[olkaz]

22. it didn't have to happen, you're right

And both states could have prevented it LAST YEAR.

I know it's fun to frame this as the voters of those states holding us hostage unless they get their privately funded quickie vote (that excludes Democrats that voted for Romney to screw up Republicans), but that sort of bizarre election disenfranchises the other 48 states that did things the right way.

Go back in time and fix it. Can't? Then this topic is finished, and it's time to face whatever anger we face in Michigan and Florida and work on nullifying it for the GE.

[Tyler Durden]

25. Good Luck.

It was all over the papers last weekend how both campaigns were in agreement on principles, and the vote in the legislature was pending. The MONEY was even there.

Now, all there is left is shock and anger. Don't be surprised if there are some eggs in the crowd next time Obama shows up, IF he shows up.

[gayron]

27. All the money Obama can raise

Now it is sooo expensive. LOL funny. Let them spilt the cost and go from there.

[Tyler Durden]

31. Too late. the deadline was 5 minutes ago.

The Michigan Legislature (Thanks to the Republican dominated Senate) is headed to recess. When they get back, all deadlines to hold a primary by June 6th will have elapsed.

Just as Campaign Obama wanted.

[olkaz]

46. My vote was legal, by the rules, and on schedule.

And if my state leadership thought they were going to be cute and potentially disenfrancise me, I would have raised hell.

But since my state did everything the right way, the idea that your state can break the rules, then have the bizarre privately funded re-vote that was proposed, is more than a little insulting. See, this is why we have "rules". This is why there are penalties for breaking them.

And your threats are falling on deaf ears, honestly. If the people of Michigan are so uninformed that they can't see the real culprit in this situation (hint: it involves last year) and they revolt en masse, so be it. The DNC shouldn't have to deal with this. Fix your state.

[Tyler Durden]

51. Fix yourself.

We had a DEAL on Sunday. Campaign Obama wanted REPUBLICANS eligible to vote in OUR PRIMARY.

Go ahead, piss on our Senators. Maybe you can get some REPUBLICAN Senators next time. Thank Dog we aren't that stupid here.

We know who fucked us. And mind your own state: we don't give two shits what's going on there.

[Tesha]

63. Not exactly Republicans, just people who played it strategically way back when.

Because there was no real contest on the Democratic side, a
lot of Independents and a few Ds crossed over and voted in
the Republican Primary. And now if there's a Democratic
re-vote, because they voted as Rs back then, they *WON'T*
be permitted to vote as Ds now.

This may unfairly dis-enfranchise a set of voters who,
under normal circumstances, would have voted in the Democratic
Primary in the first place (had there been a real, valid race).

Tesha

[Tyler Durden]

71. I view "crossing over" as dishonest.

non issue to me.

[Tesha]

74. You can view it any way you like. But in my state...

You can view it any way you like. But in my state (NH), it's one
of the Republicans' major tools; why do you think the NH Primary
so often votes out a *LOSER* for the Democrats? Why do you think
Hillary won NH?

Turnabout is fair play.

Tesha

[Tyler Durden]

92. Geez, a REPUBLICAN tool!

That makes us no better than THEM! Right?

Another good reason to kick NH out of the front of the line.

[Tesha]

94. I agree completely that NH is a poor place to start our campaigns.

Iowa too. Too white, too right, and too rural.

Tesha

[olkaz]

69. My state is fixed. Did it right the first time.

"We had a DEAL on Sunday. Campaign Obama wanted REPUBLICANS eligible to vote in OUR PRIMARY."

I know you already know this, but I'll repeat it. Democrats in your state voted in the Republican primary to screw up the Republicans, because their vote in the Democratic primary wouldn't count, and they knew it. I know it doesn't fit your framing, but try to at least understand the truth.

"Go ahead, piss on our Senators. Maybe you can get some REPUBLICAN Senators next time. Thank Dog we aren't that stupid here. "

That's unreal. Your state purposefully broke the rules, and nullified your vote. Next time, you'll know better. You'll take the newspaper articles, magazine articles, news reports on television, and articles on the internet seriously.

"We know who fucked us. And mind your own state: we don't give two shits what's going on there."

Blame everybody but your own state. I know. I know. Just an aside, I care about your state. I care about every state. Maybe that's the problem.

[Tyler Durden]

72. Democrats who cross over are dishonest.

Period.

Or do you like liars?

And you obviously care more about YOUR CANDIDATE. Perfectly natural. Enjoy November. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it very much.

[Tesha]

77. The *SYSTEM* has rules. And the rules allow cross-over voting.

If you don't like that, change the rules.

(And then, BTW, obey the rules, something Michigan
failed to do this cycle.)

Tesha

[Tyler Durden]

80. Keep it up. We know who screwed us.

And as a Union State, we know how to handle deal breakers.

I suggest you keep to your own state as well. We're pretty pissed off at the moment, and the rest of country is not making it any better at the moment.

[Tesha]

95. So you threaten violence? Or just retaliation?

> And as a Union State, we know how to handle deal breakers.

So you threaten violence? Or just retaliation?
Cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Tesha

[Tyler Durden]

97. I don't THREATEN anything.

I am speaking as if I was a Union Worker, who went and voted in the Democratic Primary, only to be told his vote didn't count.

Then I get told, a deal is made to redo the primary. I'm actually thankful to BOTH candidates for getting off their asses and doing something RIGHT. After all, I didn't want either one of them in the first place; that's why I voted "uncommitted."

NOW, ONE of the campaigns says, "Sorry. If the Republicans can't vote in the Democratic Primary redo, we won't support a primary. You have to do a CAUCUS."

How pissed off am I?

By the way, as I said downthread, can't you just admit your campaign screwed up? You had until June to convince the voters. Seems like a long time to ME. Instead, you told us "My way, or the Highway."

Seems Campaign Obama has some AMENDS to make to the Great State of Michigan. AND Florida. Seems it would be VERY SMART of Campaign Obama to quit telling us who to blame and start looking like you gave a shit what we THINK.

Seems reasonable to ME.

[Tesha]

104. There's no "my campaign" here. I don't really care for Obama either. (NT)

[spotbird]

79. Hillary didn't mind Republican

help. But that's different, because dishonest behaviour is only bad if it hurts Hillary.

Also, when you are told your vote will not count, it is not dishonest to vote for a candidate on the other side. It's perfectly legal, and responsible to want a say in the selection, even if it isn't from your side.

[olkaz]

82. Dishonest?

Their vote wasn't going to count.

Their vote wasn't going to count.

Their vote wasn't going to count.

So, they decided to screw with the Republicans. Wanting to leave them out really lends no credence to your claim of wanting to avoid disenfranchisment. Please explain how they were lying.

It's called an open primary. My state has one. I've used it to vote against particularly vile Republican candidates when the Democratic nominee was less important (I'd vote for either Democrat) or if the Democratic nominee was running unopposed (sitting governor, etc). You're going to equate that to "lying"?

My candidate is John Edwards. Since he was forced out, I've had to deal with what I'm left with.

I don't know if I will enjoy November. But I'm going to bust my hump for whoever is the Democratic nominee. I'll call, donate, organize, whatever it takes. I hope you'll do the same. Divisiveness at that point will do much more damage than our worst arguments here.

[Tyler Durden]

84. I voted "Uncommitted." I'm a DEMOCRAT. I don't vote in REPUBLICAN Primaries.

And if your value system allows you to justify gaming the system by lying, then more power to you.

[olkaz]

89. You're out of the mainstream.

Never heard anybody get as upset about this as you.

Thousands and thousands and thousands of people do this every cycle.

Sometimes I'll even vote for an independent.

Shh.. now this one I really gotta keep hush hush. Sometimes, when a Republican is running unopposed, I vote for him/her. I know, I know, it's bad, but I really like having a coroner in my county.

I know, I know, I'm a liar and a traitor. Man, this is hard work.

[Tyler Durden]

93. You know, you guys could just admit you screwed up, and make some amends...

...who knows? It might even HELP. But at the moment, you've got Michigan feeling like Florida in November of 2000. That's not very healthy.

What happened to ethics, by the way. Do you teach your kids it's a "good thing" to cheat and lie? I try to LIVE my ethics. It's one of the things that separate me from the Republican Neocons I work for.

You should try it. A fairly clean conscience is another "good thing."

[olkaz]

99. Get off the cheating and lying trip

Amends? What can I do? Let us know. We need both Michigan and Florida for the GE. If you have some specific ideas on how we can get them primed for the general now that this debacle is over, by all means, make a new thread and lets start working on it.

"What happened to ethics, by the way. Do you teach your kids it's a "good thing" to cheat and lie? I try to LIVE my ethics. It's one of the things that separate me from the Republican Neocons I work for. "

See, the problem is your definition. Nobody is cheating or lying. Open primaries are built like that for a reason. Like I said earlier, please see about turning Michigan into a closed primary. The only way you can cheat or lie as a voter is to vote more than once or say you voted and you didn't. That's it.

I don't break the law, try to be a decent Christian (even though I don't have a church), and try to make things right when I do something I regret. I'm not perfect. But I try.

You work for a neocon? I would **never** do that. Yikes.

My conscience is pretty clear. I try to be a good person. I definitely don't hold grudges.

Will you hold a grudge? It would be unethical.

[xultar]

6. DAYUM straight. When you present it to them in the reverse it doesn't make sense

just like the caveman commercial with the psychologist.

It only sounds right from their point of view. Any other POV and they either can't get it or put it on ignore.

[xultar]

4. Think how people are on DU. Beating people down to accept the 'inevitable'.

I think that is why Obama does better in caucuses than in Primaries....because if left to their own devices people won't necessarily fell obligated to vote for him.

[SeaLyons]

5. Caucuses are intimidating

and undemocratic.

[SoonerPride]

8. But single name ballots are democratic?

um, ok

[jackson_dem]

12. You're saying Obama isn't a Democrat?

;)

[gayron]

26. He took his name off the ballot

I guess when the numbers start coming in from PA in a few weeks, it will feel as if it were a single name on the ballot.

[xultar]

10. Can you imagine this bunch @ a caucus with about 50 Clinton supporters?

bloodbath.

[Tyler Durden]

18. This is a CCW state.

I wouldn't ATTEND a caucus here. Dangerous.

Besides, we've seen enough stupidity in Iowa over the years. No need to follow a bad example.

[CoffeeCat]

24. Caucuses are the most democratic of processes...

I've witnessed many caucus cycles in Iowa. Some candidates--Democrat and Republican--have won
the Iowa caucuses. Many more have lost.

Never, has anyone suggested--after losing the Iowa caucuses, that the caucus process "disenfranchised"
people or were "unfair." The caucuses have been happening for 100 years, and they have been
pillars of democracy---until the day Hillary began losing them.

The caucus dates are known months in advance. People can take off work. Childcare is provided
at the caucuses. Or you can bring your children. Many people do. The process takes on average
40 minutes and in the majority of precincts, the process is wrapped up in 30 minutes. There is a
concerted and very vigorous effort to drive people to the caucuses. Senior citizens'll are no more
"disenfranchised" by the caucus process, than they are when they go to the polls. If they aren't
able to get into a car and be driven to the caucuses by a volunteer--then it's highly unlikely that
they'll be able to make it to the voting booth either.

These arguements are absurd and they are low-rent manipulations by a sore loser.

Hillary Clinton will back stab anyone, anything and any process if it props her up in some way. She
is a master of manipulation and she will clear-cut anything that gets in her way. She doesn't care
one wit about the decent, hardworking Democratic party volunteers and organizers who work so diligently
to make these caucuses fair and democratic.

She will throw anyone into the wood-chipper, if it suits her.

All of you perpetuating Hillary Clinton's lies and manipulative marketing about the caucuses, should be
ashamed of yourselves for being so gullible and carrying forward her destructive and self-absorbed manipulations.

[Tyler Durden]

38. Bullshit.

We do PRIMARY VOTING in Michigan. SECRET BALLOT. Ever heard of it? Prevents intimidation.

Campaign Obama Screwed the pooch here. The couple of votes he could have lost were not worth it.

Working Class people can recognize your elitist "Take the day off work" shit. The Caucuses in Iowa took HOURS.

Forget it. Your "OBAMANATION" propaganda doesn't change the fact that his campaign AGREED ON THE PRIMARY ON SUNDAY, AND CHANGED THEIR MIND ON TUESDAY.

WE DON'T DO CAUCUSES IN MICHIGAN. WE DON'T LIKE THEM. THAT'S OUR RIGHT. But then, you don't seem to care about OUR rights.

DO YOU?

[CoffeeCat]

47. I'm not saying that Michigan should do caucuses...

I'm saying that each state has the right to decide what their process should be, and that
caucuses are legitimate.

Your post contains gross disinformation. You said, "The caucuses in Iowa took hours." I
was a precinct captain and I helped tally information about all of the Iowa caucuses, to see
where we could improve or do better. The vast majority of Iowa caucuses were finished within
40-50 minutes. Some took only 15 minutes!

What you are saying is absolutely untrue, and I am telling you what you're saying is untrue--because
I was present at the Iowa caucuses.

Michigan is free to have whatever kind of primary they would like, but please stop distorting Iowa's
process, in an effort to spread around Hillary's sour-grapes talking points.

[Tyler Durden]

54. YES YOU DID.

You said we should do caucuses. Campaign Obama wanted it that way too, and went back on the deal. And if you say the caucuses took that short, guess all the breaking news all night was lying.

We are a UNION state, and we know how to react to deal breakers.

[CoffeeCat]

66. You're obviously very upset...

...about your issues that have nothing to do with me.

I never said that Michigan should have a caucus.

I would never say that because that's not how I feel.

Michigan should decide for themselves.

I apologize for any misunderstanding, but I believe that each state, including Michigan
should decide the process they want to have.

[Tyler Durden]

75. We TRIED. The Michigan Obama Campaign went back on the deal.

We tried to decide. We got screwed. We know by who.

You want Michigan in the fall? You got your work cut out for you.

[spotbird]

81. Until about two weeks ago

Hillary was opposed to a revote of any kind. Since she has changed her view on the matter her supporters act as if her opinion has been the same all along, but those of us who don't have to ignore facts because Hillary does know better.

[Tyler Durden]

86. I repeat myself: I don't care what HRC or BO wanted.

I wanted a vote in the primary. Period. Campaign Obama screwed us over after agreeing in principle. Period.

[revolve]

59. So you didnt vote in 2004 Primary

Because that was a Caucus

[Tyler Durden]

70. Shows exacly how much you know about Michigan.

We VOTED for delegates. This was not an OPEN CAUCUS.

http://miboecfr.nicusa.com/election/results/04PRI/COUNTYVT.html

[revolve]

76. However it was a Caucus and not a primary

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_caucus%2C_2004>

[gayron]

29. I agree with you

That is why PR changed from caucuses to primary!

[revolve]

55. You dont nkow how caucuses are run in Michigan

So shut the hell up.

[jackson_dem]

9. Simple, they disenfranchise working folks, senior citizens, and immigrants

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. and folks with physical challenges

~

[jackson_dem]

17. Yup. It is a sad when we have an alleged Democrat using rethug tactics to disenfranchise voters

Either by making it as difficult as possible for folks to vote, a classic long time rethug tactic, or outright fighting against votes being counted, either by counting the 1.7 million FL votes from 1/29--which FL voters want 2:1--or by fighting for a revote.

[CoffeeCat]

32. Anyone who wants to attend the caucus...

...can be driven there by a volunteer.

People with physical disabilities are helped, just as they would be helped at a polling station.

Your Hillary marketing points just don't wash in the real world.

I saw many people in wheelchairs and many senior citizens at the high-school were my caucus was. There
were several caucuses held at that high school in different rooms. I saw many senior citizens. Many
people in wheelchairs. People with children. There was a cross section of every demographic in those
rooms.

By the way--turnout in the Iowa caucuses this year increased 100 percent from 2004 and 2004 was
a record-attendance year. People came out in droves--all ages, all walks of life.

What you are saying is factually inaccurate and not supported by reality.

But go ahead, perpetuate Hillary's self-centered hate. If her lies score a few points for her in the
PR game--it's worth degrading a process that has worked, right? (

You Hillary enablers realize that you are fostering manipulations and outright lies, don't you?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. How About People In Nursing Homes Who Vote With Absentee Ballots

Ever been to one?

Ever volunteer at one?

Do you know the burden you are placing on those people to mandate they attend a caucus that can take up to hours?

When you disenfranchise one person you disenfranchise the nation entire...

[Tyler Durden]

41. Give up. They don't care about the rights of Michiganders.

They thought they might lose a couple of votes, and it just isn't satisfactory that ALL OF THE VOTES WEREN'T GOING TO THEIR PRINCE.

Screw 'em. If Michigan is necessary to a Democratic win in November, PRAY HRC gets it, because BO isn't welcome here. Check the local papers if you think I'm wrong.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. How Is Someone In A Nursing Home Going To Cacucus?

Sadly, sadly, sadly some of those folks don't leave the nursing homes for years...

[CoffeeCat]

57. Most caucuses don't even take an hour...

All you Hillary soundbyte perpetrators can do is regurgitate her talking points, and hope
that no one calls you out for your outright lies.

Stop lying.

The caucus process takes on average 40-50 minutes. Many people are out in 15 minutes.

It's not a track meet. We're not asking people to jog 5 miles, but we do ask them to
raise their hand and be counted. Then they go home. If they can't raise their hand,
we can certainly provide alternative methods for counting them.

Your absurd notions are so out of whack with reality.

Iowa caucus attendance increased 100 percent this year. Iowans turned out in record, extraordinary
numbers.

I feel sorry for you--and how silly you look.

You haven't ever attended a caucus before. I have. I was a precinct captain and I'm also a delegate. You
don't want to hear the truth from someone who was there. You only want to prop up Hillary's talking points, so
she can continue to bash a very democratic and fair process---in order to taint Obama's wins.

It's really pathetic and it's very unpatriotic. To attempt to tear down a legitimate process, that has been
ongoing for nearly a century--is destructive and it demonstrates how low Hillary will sink.

Please don't enable her outrageous lies.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. Please Address This

I used to volunteer once a week to spend some time at nursing homes with the residents...Many are too physically frail to leave the premises... How are they going to caucus?

If you doubt my veracity why don't you visit one... They love company...

[jackson_dem]

39. BS. How many volunteers are there?

What about working folks who have to be at work and can't take 2 hours off?

Caucus turnout is far lower than turnout for primaries. In fact one of the highest turnout primaries was Florida...

[CoffeeCat]

11. Senator Clinton is all about herself...

...what she wants, when she wants it and how she wants it.

Senator Clinton is like a two-year old having a temper tantrum because they can't
have all of the candy they feel they need, in the grocery-store checkout lane.

Let her stomp her feet. Let her scream and roll around on the ground bellowing, "I hate
you! I hate you all! You never let me do anything! I want it now!".

Like all good parents, we shouldn't be manipulated into reinforcing obnoxious behavior.

[jackson_dem]

14. She is for letting as many voters be heard. She is a Democrat...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Bad , Bad Senator Clinton

She wants every vote to be counted...

What nerve...

[Tyler Durden]

21. Campaign Obama blocked this one.

We READ in this state, and we saw who agreed in principle and then pissed all over it yesterday.

The deadline is in 10 minutes, and we know who fucked us. November will be very interesting in the "Great Lake State." Hope you enjoy it, too.

[CoffeeCat]

35. I'm not worried (nt)

[Tyler Durden]

45. So much for your "50 State" philosophy.

More Obama Campaign "Fudge Factor."

[CoffeeCat]

49. I think the good people of Michigan are...

...intelligent enough to understand the game that is being played her.

You start with your blind-Hillary cheerleading--and everything revolves around
that mindset.

I'm confident that most Michigan Democrats are not of that mindset.

[Tyler Durden]

This has nothing to do with Clinton. Campaign Obama broke the deal.

You made a few Clinton Partisans with this bullshit, and likely even more disaffected Democrats in the middle.

Again, hope Obama (IF he gets it) doesn't need Michigan. He likely won't get it.

[CoffeeCat]

67. Fortunatley, you do not speak for the entire...

...state of Michigan.

[Tyler Durden]

78. As a member in good standing of the Michigan Democratic Party...

...and a past candidate for Public Office, I suggest you stick to your own state.

Campaign Obama has it's work cut out for it if they want Michigan in the Fall.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I Forgot

Were the original contests in FL and MI caucuses?

[Tyler Durden]

16. Clinton has NOTHING TO DO with why we don't "Caucus" in Michigan.

It's because WE DON'T CAUCUS IN MICHIGAN. We believe a voted primary is fairer, but hey, the rest of the country has said "Fuck You" to us loud and clear through their surrogates. We may be working class, but we aren't STUPID, or DEAF.

[jackson_dem]

20. Don't let the classism of the "unity" crowd get to you

Even though they don't believe working folks votes should count real Democrats realize you guys our the backbone of the party.

[Tyler Durden]

23. I'm afraid they guaranteed that Michigan will go Red in November.

And I don't mean SOCIALIST. Damned shame.

They can make all the excuses they want, but this one is right at the doorstep of Campaign Obama.

[spotbird]

33. Capitulation will guarantee the country goes red

this November.

It is the mother of all fallacies that most Americans agree with you.

[Tyler Durden]

60. It is exactly your contention that makes people in Michigan ....

Not give two shits what you or your state say.

And we don't care who agrees with us or not. Your campaign broke the redo deal. Now you can eat the consequences, if any.

[spotbird]

73. Forgive me, I thought the objective

was to win in November when the real goal is to stop Obama at all costs, including a McCain victory.

That way we can do this all over again in four years.

[Tyler Durden]

90. No, I thought the objective was a 50 state program.

Michigan and Florida are so glad you made it a 48 state one.

As with ALL Obama supporters, you seem to miss the point. COUNT VOTES.

You cut off your nose to spite your face. If I were Obama, I'd be kissing Michigan and Florida's ASS right now, because we are pretty pissed off. I was ready to vote "D" in November no matter who, but you're convincing me it might be better just to sit it out with your nasty comments. Think it over; your campaign has some AMENDS to make, whether YOU think so or not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Another Thing About Caucuses

The more educated and more articulate folks can bully the less educated and less articulate folks at a caucus as the stronger and bigger kids bully the weaker kids at a playground...

There is nothing more democratic than the secret ballot...

[hell-bent]

36. Bingo!

[CoffeeCat]

40. What you say just does not happen at the caucuses...

You are insulting the caucus process, and furthermore you insult every person in
every caucus state--when you insist that there is "bullying" going on.

I was a precinct captain in a caucus and we are trained to snuff out any intimidation
and any sort of bullying. It just never happens.

At every caucus, there are trained observers from each candidate camp. There are trained
precinct captains, and there is a Temporary Chair--who oversees the entire process and
ensures that the process is fair and democratic.

Bullying does not happen. These are adults engaging in democracy. It's not a hockey
game, as Hillary Clinton wants to manipulate into believing.

Bullies don't show up to vote in these caucuses---patriotic Americans who care about the Democratic
party and our democracy--show up.

Please stop this insane and perverse distortion of reality.

[Tyler Durden]

50. Personally, in Michigan we don't give two shits what you do in Iowa.

Besides, I thought your campaign was about RESPECT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL, and a "50 STATE" approach.

This had nothing to do with Clinton. Obama wanted REPUBLICANS eligible to vote in OUR PRIMARY. Fuck that. AND the Michigan Obama Campaign while you're at it.

YOU blew. Nobody else. Accept some responsibility.

[CoffeeCat]

62. I'm sorry you're so vitroilic...

..and full of venom.

[Tyler Durden]

87. I'm sorry you and Campaign Obama want to run how we do things in Michigan...

...and that Michigan Campaign Obama is full of deal breaking liars.

I won't say anything nasty about you and return the favor. Try having your vote taken away and see how much you like it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. My Mom Caucused At A Daytona Beach Straw Vote For Ted Kennedy In 1980

If you know anything about the Volusia County,Florida of 1980 it was overwhelmingly pro-Carter...They stuck my mom in a corner somewhere with a group of students from the historically black college, Bethune-Cookman College... They were marginalized and intimidated...My mom said it was the most unpleasant experience...

[jackson_dem]

42. Yup. No true Democrat should be demanding a caucus instead of a fair vote for all, not the few

[revolve]

65. 2004 Was a Caucus here in Michigan

Know the facts before spewing your hate filled speech

[hell-bent]

28. Stuff the caucuses!

They are undemocratic and meaningless compared to a primary. I don't want any little, snot-nosed, orange-hatted(left over from the Dean campaign)individual in my face! While you want to caucus, other individuals are at work. "We don't need no stinking caucuses!" :thumbsdown:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Caucuses Are How They Used To Appoint People To The Politburo

~

[Froward69]

44. At this point

the less expensive option would be the course, if a DO over is authorized. that means you guessed it, cacauses...

[LulaMay]

56. Why doesn't Obama want a real ELECTION?

[spotbird]

103. Hillary only wants an election

which she is guaranteed to win.

[kennetha]

61. Caucuses are undemocratic

Who would prefer a caucus to a primary except somebody afraid to face a real election?

[KingFlorez]

64. Those two states have never used the caucus system

If there was going to be a do-over, it would make since to use the regular system and not switch to a new one.

[revolve]

68. 2004 was a Caucus In Michigan

Know the facts before posting please.

[Lucinda]

85. Why should anyone want anything less than full participation?

Not everyone can caucus. End of story.

[hell-bent]

91. Well stated!

Thumbs up.....

[otohara]

98. Here's The Reality of Why Caucus Are Held

Not every state can afford primaries. That's what happened in my state, where in 2000 a primary was held after years of caucuses and no one came. No one came, but millions were spent by the state. States pay for primaries, parties pay for caucus.

The Clinton's had absolutely no problem with caucuses until it was clear they were losing.

[Lucinda]

100. Any process that doesn't allow for FULL participation should be amended or ended.

And I really wonder about anyone who advocates for anthing less.

[otohara]

101. States Don't Have Money

especially us smaller "we don't matter" anyway states.

I forget to mention that after this huge caucus there are now talks of primaries in the future. So in spite of the nastiness of this campaign, something good came from this historic election. Millions of American's finally came out and did something on their PRIMARY election/caucus days.

[Lucinda]

102. It will never be justified in my eyes. There needs to be a combo of mail/absentee

and a caucus, in states that want to keep a caucus system.

I really love the idea of a caucus. I just think provisions must be made for those who cannot attend.

I've never lived in a caucus state and didn't realize that there weren't some accomodations made for absentee/mail in voters too.