Our Ethics: I'd Never Fight For FL & MI's Illegitimate Primaries For My Candidate. Never.

[writes3000]

This is simple. Right vs. wrong. Ethical vs. unethical.

And yet, as this race goes on, I'm stunned to see people basically bending the truth and fighting for something that is unquestionably unethical. Florida and Michigan decided to move their primaries up against the rules and wishes of the DNC. They knew what the penalties were going to be and they did it anyway.

But more importantly than that - THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEES AND THEIR CAMPAIGNS AGREED TO THESE RULES.

They all signed documents and publicly announced that they knew these elections would not count. Everyone agreed to these terms.

So how in the world is it now ethical to claim these were valid primaries? Can anyone actually argue that the campaigns would have behaved the same way if they knew these elections would count? Anyone? Hello?

I've been sitting here trying to imagine if Barack Obama had won those two illegitmate primaries. Would I be campaigning for him to get those votes and delegates? NO! Why not? Because he agreed to the rules and if we don't have leaders who are willing to fight for what's clearly right and fair, then who do we have as our leaders? A bunch of Dick Cheneys.

Now, I can hear the screaming now, what about the rights of the voters! It's unfair to them! Yes, it sucks for them and it sucks that their states put them in this position. When you cut in front of the line, sometimes you get sent to the back of the line.

But here's my bigger point - if it's really, really, really just about the voters and making sure that their votes count. Fine. Let's agree to count them. But we cannot, should not, let those votes sway or influence the final result.

They were NOT fair primaries. They were NOT fair primaries. To allow them to decide the race would be UNETHICAL.

Once again, count them eventually but do not allow them to be the deciding factor in the choosing of our nominee.

That is, if ethics matters to you at all.

[elehhhhna]

1. I'm with you. k&r

[Qutzupalotl]

4. Did you remember to R?

I R'd, but there's only one vote currently.
:)

On edit: never mind.

:kick:

[elehhhhna]

lol oopsie. now done.

[flpoljunkie]

15. Hillary's real interest is in her delegate vote count--not in having voters votes count in MI, FL

[ElsewheresDaughter]

18. try and sell that to the FL and MI voters

[flpoljunkie]

28. I am a Florida voter. The D's colluded with the R's here and have no one to blame but themselves.

The rules are the rules, and the Dems in our Florida legislature willfully and knowingly broke them--cause they thought our "beauty contest" would propel Hillary to Super Tuesday and the nomination and it wouldn't matter if our primary didn't "count"--but a funny thing happened on Hillary's way to the inevitable nomination! And they want a do-over. Too bad!

[powergirl]

2. Ethics mean everything to me and I thank you for this post

I wish the MSM would hi-lite the brazenness of the Clinton campaign and how she asked, herself, that the Soviet Style primary results be honored. This makes me CRAZY!!! How unethical and how obscene. This is what Republicans do. I expect more for the the Democrats. Another reason I support Obama. If Obama tried to pull this crap, I absolutely could not support him. I am amazed that this does not bother Clinton supporters.


:banghead:

[papau]

24. Is it ethical for Obama to block the DNC OK'd redo of Michigan for selfish reasons?

[powergirl]

27. Is it ethical for Sen. Clinton to violate her pledge?

Is it ethical for Sen. Clinton to advocate seating the delegates of a Soviet style election? Is it ethical for her to change the rules of the game when she doesn't like how the game is going? The Clinton arguments are the same as those used by Republicans when they want to slime their way into office. I find her request regarding the Soviet style election the most offensive of all. How can other nations trust this person if she lies to her own party? Obama is the best candidate and we need to move on.

[monmouth]

3. Me too. You don't get rewarded for flouting the rules..n/t

[PassingFair]

5. I agree...and I'm a Michigan voter. n/t

[dchill]

6. "bending the truth and fighting ...

for something that is unquestionably unethical." Why are you "stunned" by something Hillary's supporters have been doing for months? Don't count on ethics from them - after all, it's just politics. As Chris Matthews (among others) is wont to say, "A win is a win is a win."

[writes3000]

9. It's shameful. Just shameful. n/t

[Texas Hill Country]

7. THESE ARE PEOPLE'S VOTES... ITS NOT FRIGGIN MONOPOLY. ITS DEMOCRACY!!!

[writes3000]

8. Correction: Unethical, unfair elections are NOT democracy.

In EVERY other primary in this contest, in both the Democratic and Republican sides, the candidates have had a chance to campaign in the state, talk directly to the voters, etc.

It is a fundamental part of these primaries. That's why there isn't an instant 50 state one day vote. THE STATES DESERVE A CHANCE TO HEAR FROM THE CANDIDATES AND THE CANDIDATES DESERVE A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO THE STATES.

Otherwise, the person with the most name recognition wins.

Also, many people didn't vote because they were told the primaries didn't count.

These were NOT democratic.

[shenmue]

11. What's unethical and unfair about wanting people's votes to count?

Why don't you want them in? Is somebody not letting you win?

Waaaaah...

:sarcasm:

[writes3000]

14. Good god, are you really that out of touch?

Just because you hold an election, it doesn't mean that the election was FAIR.

Anyone can hold a biased election then claim it was fair and democratic.

This one wasn't. For several reasons.

[powergirl]

30. Fair in the Soviet union

These are the arguments used by the Soviets during the cold war. "We have elections, so what is your problem?" One candidate/one vote.

[dchill]

16. Why are you shouting here? Even democracy...

has rules.

[shenmue]

10. So you're going to take their votes away. Why? Scared they didn't support your candidate?

:eyes:

Why am I getting suspicious?

The votes of two whole states should not be counted because they're towards the end and they might tip the balance? Why, isn't that what votes are supposed to do?

They should not decide? Tough. There's a thing called democracy. They voted. It should count.

Here is an Obama supporter calling for votes to not count. I want people to write this down.

Let's just wish them away and do nothing with the votes, pretend they didn't happen. Good call!

:puke:

[writes3000]

13. First, if you add them today, Obama is still ahead. Second, I said count them BUT

They should not advantage either candidate.

Next time, address the actual content of my post please. I'm not surprised that your purposeful distortion is making you sick.

[Smelting Pot]

17. Is this just a game to you?

The votes of two states should not be counted because that is what was agreed upon as the penalty for moving their primary dates up. The states AGREED TO THIS! The CANDIDATES agreed!

Here is a Clinton supporter calling for illegal votes to count. I want people to write this down.

We don't have to wish them away or pretend they didn't happen. We just have to abide by the rules as agreed to before your candidate started losing.

:banghead:

[Voltaire]

21. If Hillary signed the same agreement as everyone else

Then her word ain't worth SHIT right now is it? Big surprise there. If the voters are disenfranchised they can look to their legislatures. Not Obama.

[global1]

31. Why Is Hillary Just Now Going To Michigan & Floirda To Get The To Revote.....

if she felt this adamant about these states counting - why didn't she take that stand at the beginning and refuse to sign away these two states? Going to the states now - is disingenuous.

Also - has there been any polling in these states to indicate how a re-vote might go? As I recall - in Florida - there was a huge early vote. I'm wondering if the candidates actually went into these states now - would the outcome be different. The people of these two states will now have had more of an opportunity to see and hear the candidates. Many may have changed their minds. And Obama has been very good at moving people given time to campaign. At best Hillary may win a few delegates or she might lose the whole enchilada. Any poll numbers?

[redqueen]

12. I've seen many Clinton supporters state that the DNC 'changed the rules'.

However any time I've asked for details, I don't get any.

Is there any truth to that at all?

[Arkansas Granny]

22. I have not seen anyone from either side state that the DNC changed the rules.

I have seen many posters from both sides who are clamoring to change the rules on the primaries and/or the superdelegates. I don't favor changing the rules for either. If they need to be changed it should be done before the next election cycle, not in the middle of this one.

[redqueen]

25. I've seen it said repeatedly... as in - it's not fair to say that the states agreed,

because Dean changed the rules after they agreed.

:shrug:

[jwirr]

19. I agree. I think they should be seated but their delegates should

be divided equally between Obama and Hillary. That way they can participate in things like resolutions issues and yet not have their vote effect the election. They have not voted like they would have if they had never been expelled so it is not a fair representation of the people.

[Arkansas Granny]

20. Thank you. This post is exactly in line with my feelings.

[Laurab]

23. Ethics matter to me. I'm ashamed to see people on this site

spinning this because they think it will benefit their candidate. It tells me that they don't care about ethics in a candidate, really. I don't understand. I'm TIRED of having such an unethical government.

I cannot picture Obama doing this, whether he was winning or losing. I wouldn't respect him if he did. I've lost any respect I ever had for HRC already, because of the lies, deceit, and...well, lack of ethics that seem to fuel her campaign.

Spin, spin, spin, that's all I see from Hillary supporters on this one. Perhaps she issued a signing statement after she agreed to the rules.

There is no doubt in my mind that many people stayed home because it didn't count. I would have. If they can't or won't do it over, no one SHOULD benefit, you're exactly right, and anyone who disagrees doesn't care about ethics in the least, just like their candidate.

[writes3000]

26. Thank you. If Obama did this, I'd be ashamed. It's brazenly unethical. n/t

[flpoljunkie]

29. Sadly, it's been obvious for a very long time that the Clintons have no shame.

[writes3000]

32. Kick for Ethics. Maybe it'll sink in for someone. n/t