I don't guess it's possible that Kerry would say this war isn't winable

[lindashaw]

and for everyone's sake we should leave, is there?

I mean, I'm out here supporting him, but maybe he could look deep into his heart and make a stand like he did back in the '70s. Truth is, he can't win it, either. No one can.

[greatauntoftriplets]

1. No, what is there to win?

All lose in this clusterf*ck.

[aquart]

2. He could probably be tried for something if he did.

You don't let the "enemy" see the division. They have to believe negotiations will be the same with either leader, even if they suspect that's not true.

He really, really, really, can't say it ain't winnable. For the reason I gave, for votes, for tradition.

It would encourage renewed attacks. It would. More Americans would die.

[zoeyfong]

11. Oh yeah, more 'positioning' by kerry. It's NOT winnable, and it

doesn't matter what the the enemy thinks. Enemy 'perceptions' do nothing to change the reality on the ground, which is that it is UNWINNABLE!!!! How many years do you think we should string this out, just to stop the enemy from thinking we're leaving? You know, i used to wonder how vietnam could happen. i no longer wonder; i am seeing it happen right now. Pride and the madness of war will keep this thing going just as long as the american people let it, and with leaders like bush and kerry egging us on, that could be a long time.

[sandnsea]

3. There WILL be a government in Iraq

Of one kind or another. If Bush had changed this from an American military conquest a year ago, maybe the Iraqi's would actually have a government today. There will be a government of one kind or other, one that benefits the majority of Iraqi's and gets along with the other countries in the region would be preferable.

Kerry did say on Friday that this may be our last chance to get it right in Iraq. I think he is well aware that there's a point of no return and we're quickly approaching it.

[Pepperbelly]

4. The hard fact is that right now, Iraq is coming apart at the seams ...

and it belongs to us. We did it. We invaded it. We created the vacuum in political and legal authority and must put right what we have broken. Kerry is absolutely right about that. Merely walking away would leave an even larger vacuum and who knows what would rush in to fill it.

I do not support being over there but I do support getting the international community to help lend a stabilizing influence to the new geography. Bush's notion of democracy in the mideast smacks of "white man's burden" and all that crap.

Because of the total incompetence of Bush ... ie he dragged un kicking and screaming into this crap and he did not have a clue ... not a single fucking clue what should happen after the intitial military invasion and subsequent actions in putting an occupation in place. Even with the human tragedy from Bush's actions, the after-invasion seems even more criminal. I read one account from a soldier who expected, upon "liberating" Bahgdad, that a calvacade of supplies would flow into the country and more and more soldiers. Hardly any of it materiazlized. In fact, these guys were expecting to get home in time for baseball.

[On the Road]

5. Hi, Pepperbelly!

Haven't seen the Zippy logo around in a while. :hi:

[ACK]

6. The problem for Kerry is that there are no good options left

Its all f*cked now beyond all human comprehension and like the deficit and the economy and well everything he is inheriting a huge mess.

+

[nomaco-10]

7. Kerry won't even acknowledge that this war was illegal or unfounded......

in the first place, much less make a statement that it is a "winnable war". His response has been clear, "The war was innevitable, but the "EXECUTION and OCCUPATION" was handled badly by the bush administration". Kerry was for this war from the get go. He is not and will never be a Robert Byrd. He's a career politician trying to be all things to all people including repub independent voters and has in the process alienated and devalued alot of good dem voters and will probably pay the price in November because of his namby pamby, wishy washy stances on Iraq.

I will say this one more time and then put it in a sig line if I decide to keep posting here, "I WILL VOTE FOR KERRY BECAUSE WITH A KERRY VICTORY IT WILL ENSURE THE OUSTER OF CHENEY, RUMSFELD, WOLFOWITZ, ASHCROFT, ARMITAGE AND RICE, NOT TO MENTION A STOP TO THE STACKING OF JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS LIKE PICKERING AND THE INNEVITABLE SELECTION OF A SUPREME COURT JUDGE, AND IF THAT HAPPENS, WE'RE FUCKED." Yes, I will vote for John Forbes Wintrop Kohn Kerry, I have no other alternative.

[RafterMan]

8. The war IS winnable

If you define win as exiting Iraq with a stable, unified government in place. The problem is that Bush has shown no signs that he actually means it when he says that's his goal. Let the Iraqis reject a sincere appeal to that end before we claim all is lost.

[mike_c]

9. the invasion of Iraq was NEVER about creating a stable...

...democratic nation. Never was, never will be. That's one reason it's absolutely unwinnable. It was always about establishing a base for U.S. hegemony in the middle east. Easy pickings for the PNAC cabal. Now that reality's biting us in the ass it's time for Kerry to find his spine and show some of that vaunted anti-war fervor. I respected him a lot during the 1970's.

[RafterMan]

10. I understand that was never Bush's goal

But it CAN be Kerry's goal. Even if it wasn't Kerry's goal when he voted for the war, his inauguration will be a great chance to tack.

The basic point is that I consider it the best outcome for the US (including whatever Bush's real agenda is) and it's not out of reach.

[zoeyfong]

12. Wrong. Ain't gonna happen. The options are:

1.Iraq will split up peacefully, 2.There will be a civil war and then the country will split up, 3.There will be a civil war and then the winning faction will establish some kind iron-fisted rule over the whole country, similar to Sadaam's, in order to keep everyone in line. *None* of these options could constitute victory for America in this fatally flawed misadventure, however, option 1 would probably not be as bad as lot of pundits make it out ot be.