Hillary's campaign blames Obama for FL and MI problems...Harold Ickes

[madfloridian]

Here we go again...and again..and again. This is just ridiculous. That campaign is actually undermining party rules and putting the blame on Obama. That is just unbelievable.

First it was all the fault of the DNC, now it is the fault of the Obama campaign. Spare me.

Here is what Harold Ickes said today. He is a big part of her campaign, especially with his private database called Catalist.

Florida finds its way into Clinton campaign arsenal

The Hillary Clinton campaign went on the attack this afternoon and put the blame for the primary debacles in Florida and Michigan on Barack Obama’s shoulders.

The campaign trotted out senior advisor Harold Ickes to tell reporters that Obama was “slapping these states in the face” by not supporting another primary, which would cost between $18 million and $25 million in each state.

Ickes, who has worked on campaigns for the Clinton family since 1996, is a member of the Democratic National Committee Rules & Bylaws Committee and voted last year to strip both states of all their delegates.

“We are a political organization,” Ickes, pictured above with Howard Dean, said of the DNC. “Our business is about winning elections.

“My primary motivation in voting to strip the delegates was to send a powerful message to others states that there were consequences to jumping the window. That is now past us. Now we have to turn our attention to winning the general election.”

Oh, Harold, what a two-faced argument. First you voted to strip the delegates, then you blamed Dean, now you blame Obama.

Then you excuse all of it in the name of winning.

[NightWatcher]

1. they are losing and desperate, forget about them

[ZinZen]

11. Exactly

This is a campaign in its death throes thrashing about.

[Debi]

2. Wow, I've never actually seen someone talk out of both sides of their mouth

:wow:

How soon before Obama gets blamed for the electoral college as well??

[Hawkeye-X]

3. Congratulations Florida, you decide to go corrupt again..

When will it ever occur to you that corruption is not the thing to go?

Hawkeye-X

[ericgtr]

4. What.. A topic that doesn't involve Wright for a change?

This wouid be politics as usual and I welcome it if it means putting that damned Wright thing to rest.

[City Lights]

5. To you, madfloridian, for your tireless effort to keep us up-to-date on this bs:

[madfloridian]

10. Awww...how pretty.

:hi:

[Cha]

23. I second that, No Surrender!

[City Lights]

36. Ooooo, nice pic, zidzi!

:hi:

[Cha]

38. Indiana Obama..

:hi:

[madfloridian]

6. Obama's speech was on at a local gym today someone told me

Someone who had just been to a local gym to workout said that they had Obama's speech on. The room was quiet and they watched as they worked out. I asked how it was received...they thought it was amazing.

Just an added thought of interest.

[madfloridian]

7. Harold says Barack is foot-dragging.

I am still surprised at the utter nerve of them.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/clinton_camp_obama_footdraggin.html

"We have every reason to believe that Sen. Obama and his campaign are dragging their feet,’’ Ickes said in a conference call with reporters today. “They have never come out publicly… and said there should be re-run primaries.

“By slapping these states in the face… we are in effect saying to these states… that you’re not going to be seated,’’ Ickes said. “We think that is a very, it is a politically stupid thing to do… It will give the Republicans a real opening to go into both of these states and say, ‘Look, the Democrats didn’t care enough about you to have you seated at the convention. Be with us in the fall.’’’

“We think this is a very shortsighted strategy that will not help us at all in the general election,’’ Ickes said.

Phil Singer, a Clinton campaign spokesman, put it this way today: “What is going on right now is a passive-aggressive effort on the part of the Obama campaign to disenfranchise the voters of these states.’’

[redqueen]

8. It doesn't surprise me at all...

disappointing, but hardly surprising.


And thanks once again, madfloridian, for all your hard work. :)

[madfloridian]

9. Ickes...Obama keeping us from winning....Hillary can't win without Fl and MI

Oh, Harold, just stop it.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/ickes_difficult.html

"As plans for a revote in MI appear to be going the way of FL's proposal, Hillary Clinton's team renewed its push for Barack Obama to sign off on a settlement allowing both states' voters to cast ballots.

Harold Ickes was asked by Jeffrey Toobin on today's call with reporters if Clinton would be able to win pledged delegates without MI and FL. Here was his answer:

"I think it will probably be difficult, but that’s not the issue," Ickes said. "The issue is that people keep making this what I consider a phony distinction between pledged delegates and non pledged delegates. A delegate is a delegate is a delegate … I reject the premise of the question."

Ickes, on the call with Phil Singer, said that Obama's campaign is throwing up roadblocks. HRC's lawyers have signed off on the proposals. Ickes said the party is in for a tough road in the general if the voters of FL and MI are not counted.

"It is a politically stupid thing to do," he said"

Stop it, Harold, stop whining.

[LTR]

29. I don't even think Hillary can win WITH FL and MI (nt)

[madfloridian]

30. Only with superdelegates.

But I think that will not work.

[LisaM]

12. If Michigan and Florida don't count, Obama cannot in good conscience accept a nomination

He simply cannot.

[madfloridian]

13. LOL

Love it.

[Johnny__Motown]

14. care to back that up? I live in MI, Madfloridian lives in FL and we both disagree

[LisaM]

15. Well, my family lives in Michigan and they disagree with you.

And they are voting for Hillary. I'm originally a Michigander myself, and it's really hurt me to watch Michigan slip into recession while the rest of the country yawns.

I also have friends in Florida who voted for Hillary who would prefer that their votes count.

I don't know what you mean by "back it up" but I have been annoyed at the whole thing well before the primary season started.

I think Obama likes it the way it is and doesn't care for a re-vote, but I don't really care.

[Johnny__Motown]

16. I mean provide some rational argument for why he can't accept the nomination

[LisaM]

17. Well, I personally believe that Iowa and New Hampshire should not have a monopoly

on picking candidates. But aside from that, I think that Michigan (which I love dearly, and you must too) has legitimate issues this election cycle that should have been bubbled to the top. I said before January that Michigan's so-called one state recession was soon going to be everyone's problem, and now it is. I think that the voters there deserved more than they got.

I think we also need to realize that in both cases (Michigan, where the Dems tried to switch their primary date to later, and Florida, in which the Dems did not have the votes to do it), it was Republicans who prevented it. I don't choose to have voters in two major states disenfranchised because of Republican state legislatures. In both states, they must know full well that many Democrats will be pretty pissed off in November if they can't have a chance to vote now (particularly voters whose candidate isn't the nominee) and may not even vote. I know lots of Michiganders who don't feel like giving money to the DNC right now, and may not even to the candidate. I think Howard Dean dropped the ball on this.

I'm sure it's easier if you are an Obama supporter (don't know if you are, presuming so) to think that it's okay the way it stands. I am NOT an Obama supporter myself, but I least I can say I was upset about this well before the primaries took place. I (sadly) don't live in Michigan now, and if Obama is the nominee, I'll vote for him, but I certainly won't give money to his campaign or to the DNC. It will all go to EMILY's List.

[madfloridian]

19. FL and MI did not do this on their own. But it will destroy the party...

and I believe the source was the Clinton campaign all along.

Hillary will do anything to win...including blaming Obama for not helping them win.

It is shameless.

It is meant to destroy Dean and the DNC, and they don't care who else goes down with the ship.

[LisaM]

25. What possible reason do you have to think this was engineered by the Clinton campaign?

I think that's a bit of a stretch.

[madfloridian]

28. What possible reason? Oh, I don't know.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to who has been doing it?

[LisaM]

31. You think that Clinton's campaign tried to engineer an early primary date

in Michigan and Florida?

Of course, NOW, the Clinton camp will be far more engaged to try and enfranchise the voters. Both states would likely have been favorable to her anyway. I'm talking initially.

I understand that Obama supporters prefer that nothing from either state count. I disagree with that. Fortunately for me, I said all this long before the primaries (and I was an Edwards supporter then).

[madfloridian]

32. It's just politics, you know.

.

[LisaM]

33. No, I don't know. I know that I have a candidate I like

and I see people vilifying her at every turn, even if they think she'll make a good president. I see my own situation as a feminist (and getting to be an angry feminist, I might add) being marginalized. I see a dream of seeing a woman president slipping away because we have decreed now that race is the only issue that matters. I see my beloved home state of Michigan losing jobs and population and morale and the rest of the country not caring. I see a lot of things that transcend politics. There is no "JUST" about it. It's difficult.

[madfloridian]

37. I was being sarcastic.

I had no real preference. Then Hillary started demanding she get the FL delegates when she saw how close the race was. Before that she wrote off both states as not counting.

I have followed this closely, and it has angered me.

I would never have minded voting for Hillary until I saw the utter ruthlessness of pursuing the delegates that were not there because of broken rules.

[stillcool]

24. I don't know why ...

anyone is surprised by any of this.....

December 1, 2007, 11:42 am
Democrats Strip Michigan of Delegates

By The New York Times

In a widely expected move, the Democratic National Committee voted this morning to strip Michigan of all its 156 delegates to the national nominating convention next year. The state is breaking the party’s rules by holding its primary on Jan. 15. Only Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada are allowed to hold contests prior to Feb. 5.

The party imposed a similar penalty on Florida in August for scheduling a Jan. 29 primary.

The Democratic candidates have already pledged not to campaign in the state, and Senators Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr., as well as John Edwards and Gov. Bill Richardson, asked to have their names removed from the state ballot.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/democrats-strip-michigan-delegates/

Lawmakers in US state Michigan approve moving presidential primary to January despite rules
The Associated Press
Published: August 30, 2007

LANSING, Michigan: Michigan lawmakers have approved moving the state's U.S. presidential nomination contests to January, three weeks earlier than party rules allow, as states continue to challenge the traditional primary election calendar to gain influence in the race.

Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm is expected to sign the bill passed Thursday that would move the contest to Jan. 15, but approval of the switch is far from certain. A disagreement among state Democratic leaders over whether to hold a traditional ballot vote or a more restricted caucus is complicating final action.

If the date moves up, Michigan Democrats risk losing all their national convention delegates, while Republicans risk losing half.
------------------------------------
Rules in both parties say states cannot hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5, except for a few hand-picked states that hold elections in January.
--------------------------------
"We understand that we're violating the rules, but it wasn't by choice," Michigan Republican Chairman Saul Anuzis said, noting that state Democrats first proposed moving the date to Jan. 15. "We're going to ask for forgiveness and we think ... we will get forgiveness."
----------------------------------
Even states that do not have favored status are trying to jump toward the front of the line. Florida Democrats decided to move their state's primary to Jan. 29. The national party has said it will strip Florida of its presidential convention delegates unless it decides within the next few weeks to move the vote to a later date.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/31/america/NA-POL-US-Primary-Scramble.php?WT.mc_id=rssap_america

Democrats vow to skip defiant states
Six candidates agree not to campaign in those that break with the party's calendar. Florida and Michigan, this includes you.
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 2, 2007
The muddled 2008 presidential nomination calendar gained some clarity Saturday -- at least on the Democratic side -- as the party's major candidates agreed not to campaign in any state that defies party rules by voting earlier than allowed.

Their collective action was a blow to Florida and Michigan, two states likely to be important in the general election, which sought to enhance their clout in the nominating process as well.

Front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina in pledging to abide by the calendar set by the Democratic National Committee last summer. The rules allow four states -- Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina -- to vote in January.

The four "need to be first because in these states ideas count, not just money," Edwards said in a written statement. "This tried-and-true nominating system is the only way for voters to judge the field based on the quality of the candidate, not the depth of their war chest."

Hours later, after Obama took the pledge, Clinton's campaign chief issued a statement citing the four states' "unique and special role in the nominating process" and said that the New York senator, too, would "adhere to the DNC-approved calendar."

Three candidates running farther back in the pack -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and Sens. Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware -- said Friday they would honor the pledge, shortly after the challenge was issued in a letter co-signed by Democratic leaders in the four early states.
--
Florida, the state that proved pivotal in the 2000 presidential election, is again a source of much upheaval. Ignoring the rule that put January off-limits, legislators moved the state's primary up to Jan. 29, pushing Florida past California and other big states voting Feb. 5.

Leaders of the national party responded last month by giving Florida 30 days to reconsider, or have its delegates barred from the August convention in Denver.

"The party had to send a strong message to Florida and the other states," said Donna Brazile, a veteran campaign strategist and member of the Democratic National Committee, the party's governing body. "We have a system that is totally out of control."

Despite that warning, Michigan lawmakers moved last week to jump the queue, voting to advance the state's primary to Jan. 15.

Florida Dems defy Dean on primary date
By Sam Youngman
Posted: 06/12/07 07:58 PM
Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), is trapped in a high-stakes game of chicken with party leaders in Florida.

They warned him yesterday not to “disenfranchise” state voters and risk being blamed for a debacle on the scale of the 2000 recount.

The warning comes amid alarm over a decision Sunday by state Democratic leaders to embrace Jan. 29 as the primary date.
They are defying DNC headquarters and daring it to follow through on its threat to disqualify electors selected in the primary and punish candidates who campaign there.

But the DNC is not backing down. The committee bought time with a statement late yesterday saying, “The DNC will enforce the rules as passed by its 447 members in Aug. 2006. Until the Florida State Democratic Party formally submits its plan and we’ve had the opportunity to review that submission, we will not speculate further.”

Dean does not, in any case, have the power to waive party rules, a DNC spokeswoman said. The entire committee would have to vote again to do that.
------------------

Carol Fowler, chairwoman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, said she won’t move that state’s primary, scheduled for Feb. 2, unless the national committee allows her.

“I’m going to do what the DNC tells me to,” Fowler said. “I’m not willing to violate the rules. The penalties are too stiff.”
.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/florida-dems-defy-dean-on-primary-date-2007-06-12.html

DNC Moves to Stop Primary Frontloading
The Democratic National Committee moved over the weekend to penalize Florida for moving up its primary date to Jan. 29 -- a violation of DNC rules that prohibit states from holding nominating polls before Feb. 5.
The committee said the Sunshine State would be stripped of its delegation at the party's National Convention in 2008 if the state does not reschedule its primary in the next 30 days.

As the nation's fourth-most-populous state, Florida has 210 delegates and has played a major role in recent presidential elections. Florida's decision to advance its primary follows the increasing trend of states pushing up their contests in order to gain relevance in the election.

"Rules are rules. California abided by them, and Florida should, as well. To ignore them would open the door to chaos," said Garry Shays, a DNC member from California. California -- with its 441 delegates -- moved its primary to Feb. 5, along with more than a dozen other states.
-----------------------------------------

The DNC's move may have repercussions beyond Florida as other state legislatures consider disregarding the Feb. 5 cutoff. Last week, Michigan's state Senate voted to hold its primary on Jan. 15. The state's House is expected to approve the earlier date as well.

The DNC gave Florida the option of holding a Jan. 29 contest but with nonbinding results, and the delegates would be awarded at a later official date.

Florida Democratic Committee Chairwoman Karen Thurman said this option would be expensive -- as much as $8 million -- and potentially undoable. Another option would be to challenge the ruling in court.

"We do represent, standing here, a lot of Democrats in the state of Florida -- over 4 million," Thurman said, according to the New York Times. "This is emotional for Florida. And it should be."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/politics/july-dec07/florida_08-27.html

Published: Monday, September 24, 2007
Florida defies Dems, moves up primary
Associated Press

PEMBROKE PINES, Fla. — The Florida Democratic Party is sticking to its primary date — and it printed bumper stickers to prove it.

State party leaders formally announced Sunday their plans to move ahead with a Jan. 29 primary, despite the national leadership's threatened sanctions.

The Democratic National Committee has said it will strip the Sunshine State of its 210 nominating convention delegates if it doesn't abide by the party-set calendar, which forbids most states from holding primary contests before Feb. 5. The exceptions are Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20070924/NEWS02/709240045/-1/

Michigan defies parties, moves up primary date
JAN. 15 DECISION COULD SET OFF STAMPEDE OF STATES
By Stephen Ohlemacher
Associated Press
Article Launched: 09/05/2007 01:34:57 AM PDT

WASHINGTON - Michigan officially crashed the early primary party Tuesday, setting up showdowns with both political parties and likely pushing the presidential nomination calendar closer to 2007.

Gov. Jennifer Granholm signed a bill moving both of Michigan's presidential primaries to Jan. 15. Michigan's move threatens to set off a chain reaction that could force Iowa and New Hampshire to reschedule their contests even earlier than anticipated, perhaps in the first week in January 2008 or even December 2007.
-------------------------------------------
The national parties have tried to impose discipline on the rogue states. On the Republican side, states that schedule contests before Feb. 5 risk losing half their delegates to next summer's convention, though some are banking that whoever wins the GOP nomination will eventually restore the delegates.

Democrats have experienced similar problems, but party officials hoped they had stopped the mad dash to move up by threatening to strip Florida of all its convention delegates for scheduling a primary Jan. 29 and by persuading the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in the party-approved early states.

Michigan, in moving up its primary, faces a similar penalty from the Democratic National Committee.
-----------------------------------------------------

The decision by the major Democratic candidates to campaign only in approved early states renders voting in the rogue states essentially non-binding beauty contests.

But Former Michigan Gov. James Blanchard, co-chairman of Hillary Clinton's Michigan campaign, told the Associated Press on Tuesday that the pledge allows candidates' spouses to campaign in the state, allows the candidates to speak to groups of 200 or fewer and permits fundraising.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_6804685?source=rss

[JVS]

26. Just watch him

[my3boyz]

34. PLEASE....you hope he would not. If Hillary was ahead

she would not even consider CHANGING THE RULES mid-election. Heck..not even the middle of the election...towards the end. Hillary just NEEDS the delegates. Her quote about the Michigan primary not counting proves that.

[Kahuna]

18. So, now Obama is supposed to help her gain delegates???

:rofl: Those guys are a riot!

[Thurston Howell III]

20. What's she going to do next? Blame Obama for her husband's infidelity??

Jesus she always blames everybody else! Poor little girl.

[meow mix]

21. haha. obama did it all!!

LOL

[Cha]

22. Obama gives a speech for

the ages and all hilary can do is make up shit so she can Whine and pile on the cheeze.

Someone at work today said.."I used to like hilary, what happened to her?"

I said I stopped liking her in Oct, 2002..they said, "you know the exact date?!" "That's when she voted for the IWR without reading the 90 page NIE and went the wishes of the thousands of us who called and pleaded with her".

hilary is a desperate zero and it doesn't matter that Obama had nothing to do with this..they want the m$$$$m to pass this on.

[flpoljunkie]

27. Fact is Ickes and Clinton camp thought Hillary would have it won by Super Tuesday, and FL's "beauty

contest "didn't matter--except to give Hillary the big mo for Super Tuesday. But a funny thing happened on the way to Hillary's coronation as our nominee--as we all know.

Now, they are desperately seeking a way to have do-overs in Florida and Michigan to try and increase Hillary's popular vote so she can stay alive until the convention--a disaster for the party and for our chances in November.

[NJSecularist]

35. To think that this screwup is the son of Harold L. Ickes of the FDR administration...

What happened?

[madfloridian]

39. Ickes: Obama campaign is working key legislators. Really?

http://www.observer.com/2008/ickes-obama-campaign-blocking-michigan-re-vote

"In another effort to control a big news day with a news-making attack on the Obama campaign, the Clinton campaign just now accused the Obama campaign in a conference call of actively blocking a re-vote in Michigan and passive-aggressively stymieing another primary in Florida.

Harold Ickes said "we understand on very, very good authority" that Michigan legislators believe both campaign's consent would be necessary for a re-vote. He said that since the Clinton campaign was publicly in favor of a re-vote, the Obama campaign must be blocking the effort.

"Exhibit A," Ickes called it, adding, "The only thing we can conclude is that the Obama campaign is working key legislators."

Phil Singer said that in Florida, where a re-vote now seems very unlikely, "what is going on right now is a passive-aggressive effort on behalf of the Obama campaign to disenfranchise the voters of Florida."

I think that is called politics. :shrug:

[Hepburn]

40. I really like the IGNORE feature on the DU....

...is there some way, I am wondering, that I can use it to make Hillary STFU!?!?!?!