Kerry's an idiot for not jumping at the opportunity to show his medals

[dolstein]

Apparently, Kerry was asked yesterday by a journalist whether he'd be willing to show his medals, so the American public can know once and for all which medals/ribbons he threw away and which ones he didn't.

Kerry said this was a private matter and he wasn't showing his medals to anyone.

Am I the only one who thinks that Kerry's being an idiot? Why on earth WOULDN'T he want to show his medals? And why the hell is he simply incapable of putting this issue behind him? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that all he needs to say is that he returned his ribbons as a symbolic gesture to signify his opposition to the war -- an opposition that NOBODY, not even his Republican opponents -- seriously doubts, but that he kept his medals -- well, because he EARNED them dammit. He was PROUD to have served his country and to have served with distinction. And that anyone who actually served in Vietnam would understand perfectly well why he would choose to hold onto them. And he could add that any statement he might have made 30 years ago which implied that he threw away his medals was an innocent mistatement, nothing more, and that he'd like to know whether Bush and Cheney stand by everything THEY said thirty years ago.

[Monte Carlo]

1. Uh, I disagree...

Why didn't he show his medals? Can't you see the endless ranting and raving about how he'd be hiding behind his medals, how that's all he has to talk about, and all that junk? And the Republicans would STILL give him crap about how he earned them, if he earned them, and all that. When a reporter says jump, he should not say 'how high?'.

[dolstein]

5. So Kerry should sit back and take it? Thanks Mr. Dukakis.

Those medals are the ONLY thing at this point standing between Kerry and the Republican's caricature of him as a left-wing pacifist. He ran ads in the primary trumpeting his heroism in Vietnam, so he's obviously not shy about talking his war record. So why on earth would he pass up the opportunity to display his medals before the broadcast media? And because the press have done Kerry the HUGE favor of actually ASKING to see the medals, it won't even come off as crass.

[Monte Carlo]

11. So now we're talking about something else...

... about Kerry sitting back and taking it, and not his medals.

Everyone knows he has the medals, and everyone knows what they look like. There's a fine line between good showing off and bad showing off, and coming out with medals looking like some African military dictator is on the bad side.

And hey, if he told the press that he'd be putting his medals up on display, they'd be there quicker than a pair of F-15s. So let's not waste our time with the 'opportunity'.

There's still 6 months to go. There's no sense in Kerry blowing his wad prematurely.

[dolstein]

26. "Everyone knows"??? Everyone on DU, perhaps

But most voters know very little about John Kerry. Hell, only a tiny fraction of registered Democrats actually voted in the primary. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people don't know about his medals. And even if they do, here's a perfect opportunity to remind everyone of Kerry's heroism, and to do so in a context where it doesn't apper crass. Seriously -- Kerry has paid good money to run ads trumpeting his Vietnam serice. Now he can do so for free. Why pass up free media?

[flpoljunkie]

39. Monte Carlo, Dolstein finds it necessary to disparage John Kerry...

It is possible to make a point without name calling. You are right. Showing his medals would be seized upon by all the whore pundits as showboating.

[Catfight]

2. because he's not going to be bullied into it by the pig press

why should he have to show them? He fought, he did his duty, he put his life on the line. This isn't about Kerry's service, it's about Bush's lack of service hiding behind the medals of Kerry. Bush always hiding and people like you wanting Kerry to prove something. Screw that...good for Kerry, why doesn't he ask the press for Dick Cheney to show the fucking LIST of people on the energy task force!

dammit!

[dolstein]

6. Can't see the forest for the trees, eh?

Only someone who is completely off their game would choose to look at this as the press attempting to bully him. This is a huge OPPORTUNITY for Kerry. The press is offering the opporutnity to highlight his distinguished service in Vietnam. They're BEGGING him too.

[Catfight]

7. Interesting perspective, I hope you're absolutely right...

but I just don't trust the conservative press, their spin is usually ugly and relentless, remember Dean.

[Monte Carlo]

13. You think they're trying to highlight his distinguished service!?

I'd say they're trying to turn Kerry's medals into a liability instead of an asset - a sign of his cold, calculating nature and not the earned symbols of true patriotism.

[dolstein]

29. No, cold and calculating would be refusing to talk about them

Seriously, when the media asks to see his medals and Kerry refuses, what makes you think that the public will ascribe honorable motives to Kerry's actions? You're thinking a little too hard.

[Brotherjohn]

30. I haven't yet read a news story where anyone has "asked to see his medals"

See other posts in which myself and OKNancy point out that a simple Google for "Kerry medals display office" reveals that the right wing is well aware that Kerry has the medals (they might question that they are real, but they are well aware he has them on display).

This is why they are NOT asking to see them, and why they are NOT accusing him of not having the medals. What they are accusing him of is lying about throwing the medals away. They think they have found an inconsistency in his statements and are trying to brand him as a liar based on that.

I feel Kerry has addressed this sufficiently (for the moment) by addressing the lying charge and saying it's a phony issue. I agree that by showing the medals, he will prove he has the medals. But that is not the accusation. The accusation is that he is lying. If he came right out and showed them, that would do nothing to answer the core charge, which is (in addition to nonsense) this:
"You now say you didn't throw away your medals, but in this 1971 interview we've dredged up, you said that you DID throw them away. One way or another, you lied about your medals. Either you lied then or you're lying now."

Kerry has to (and has done so) address the accusation that he lied when he "said" he threw his medals away. He didn't explicitly say that, and the medals/ribbons indistinction is a valid point (besides the fact that the interviewer is the one who mentioned specific medals, and Kerry's response is open to interpretation).

IF an uproar arises for him to show his medals, then he can perhaps use that to his advantage. They still will try to say either (A) they're fake (see http://www.gopusa.com/garyaldrich/2004/ga_0301.shtml), or (B) he lied in 1971. So it's hard for him to win by playing their game.

[zoeyfong]

45. Why doesn't he highlight his *opposition* to the war? Apparently

a lot of people think there are more votes in fighting an unnecessary, losing war than in opposing it. But we already knew that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. This has got to be a tough call.

In the generation that Kerry was raised, we were taught not to boast about ourselves. I bet Kerry is torn not only because of the possibility that it would not be characteristic, but also because of the painful memories that those medals represent in his life.

It's just a stab in the dark.

[CityDem]

35. That is just hogwash

Kerry has talked about Viet Nam non stop since the primary campaign started. I will bet more people know that Kerry is a Viet vet than a senator from Mass. He could end this issue by showing his medals and it surely would not seem like he is showing off. He is being stubborn and it makes him look shifty and like a flip flopper. Just what the Bush* campaign wants. Kerry needs to move off this issue and get the media spotlight on jobs, Iraq and jobs.

[OKNancy]

4. I recall reading about this many times

in the past. I recall that they are in his office..perhaps his Senate office.

On edit: just Google "Kerry medals display office" and you will find page after page of right-wing smear. In the google synopsis most are critical of his showing them in his Senate office building.

Kerry - damned if he does, damned if he doesn't

[Brotherjohn]

19. Good example. But the very first link I found shows what they'll say if..

... he shows his medals:

"Anyone visiting his Senate office can see medals hung in a display case on the wall. Well, whose medals are in the display case? Are these Kerry's, or did he or a member of his staff buy a few similar medals at a local pawn shop?"
http://www.gopusa.com/garyaldrich/2004/ga_0301.shtml

You can't win with these folks.

[bloom]

8. I don't blame him

The way the media(WH reps) wants to fan the flames.

[jobycom]

9. Kerry's a genius for not playing into Republican traps

The Republicans want kerry to start showing off his medals and start screaming how much of a hero he is so they can paint him as some old war veteran in love with his past and out of touch with the present. They want him to be arrogant, to show off, to look conceited, so they can blast him on that.

Kerry is genius. He is using every attack they make to turn the spotlight away from him and shine it on Bush. When asked about Bush's claims against his military record, he says "I don't have to listen to attacks from people who were afraid to serve, and who can't even explain where they were when they were supposed to be at National Gaurd duty." (paraphrasing). There, not only does Kerry deflect the criticism, not only does he highlight the difference between his record and Bush's, but he does it without appearing to brag.

That's called brilliant, not idiocy.

And it's working, whether the polls show it or not yet. People now know that Kerry served, and earned medals, and that Bush didn't, and won't even explain why he was AWOL. The more Bush asks, the more the public will catch on. It's going to be a long battle. Kerry has to blast away a massive defensive fortress Bush and the media has built in order to win. He won't do it by one clever phrase.

edited out typo and inappropriate comment.

[dolstein]

12. How is "show us your medals" a Republican trap?

Ever hear the phrase "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?

Honestly, who CARES what the media's motives are in asking the question. They are giving Kerry the opportunity to go on television and talk about his medals -- the medals he received for heroism in Vietnam. Please explain to me how this is a BAD thing.

[jobycom]

23. I explained that in the post you responded to but must not have read. nt

[dolstein]

25. No you didn't

You made a specious argument about how the Republicans were going to attack Kerry for boasting about his medals. But since Kerry would be talking about his medals ONLY in direct response to repeated media inquires, that argument simply wouldn't fly. That's why Kerry's an idiot to pass up a golden opportunity to show off his medals WITHOUT appearing boastful. You want to see my medals? Oh well, ok, if you insist.

[jobycom]

27. Same answer

You still haven't said anything i didn't answer in the first post. It doesn't matter how they get Kerry to show off his medals, they will use it against him.

Kerry is smart. He'll wait until they beg him. Then it's different. Then it's not defensive, it's gracious. If he still keeps them private, that will say something in itself to the public. And it will drag the issue out for the whole election.

If he shows them now, it's done. He can't show them again. People shut up about it. The Republicans use it to show his arrogance and conceit. The media does what the Repubs want, so they protray it that way.

It's a trap. One Kerry is avoiding. You said he shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. This is a Trojan horse, full of nasty reporters waiting to embarrass him. Never do what your opponent wants you to do, even if it seems like a good idea.

[dolstein]

28. Perhaps the trap is getting Kerry NOT to show his medals

That's no less plausible that the whopper you're spinning. If that's the case, they've succeeded beyond their wildest expectations.

[Brotherjohn]

10. Perhaps he DID get rid of them. Not on that day, but later.

They are a painful memory, and I wouldn't put it beyond him to have gotten rid of them at some point later.

But so what if he did!? That's his prerogative. And on the issue of whether he's contradicting himself now regarding that day, the facts are on his side (as Tom Oliphant points out today).

Still, maybe he's not producing them b/c he can't. And it would look awfully bad for him to say: "I don't have them. I did get rid of them, just not on that day."

Whether he has them or not, I think it's best for him to not get bogged down into, as he says, a "phony issue". That's what the 'pubs want. Distract distract distract. Plus, if he does indeed have them, why not save it for later? He can produce them at a more opportune time.

But I'm more inclined to believe that this is highly personal to him and he just doesn't want to dignify it with such action. Especially if he has publicly, and symbolically, "given them back". It wouldn't look good to show them off now.

And I haven't heard anyone explicitly ask yet. THAT might be the opportune time I suggest above... when they start crying "show us your medals!!!" Then it would be a big slap down.

Right now, it seems all they are doing is trying to brand him inconsistent and a liar... and to brand him as "unpatriotic". I think they're scared to outright ask him to show his medals, because that might mean he'd actually show his medals.

[OKNancy]

17. They are in his Senate office

many reports that they are there.

[Ready4Change]

14. He should let the furor build a bit

Then, reluctantly, show them.

If he shows them now, it won't get well covered. If he lets interest build, he can not only demonstrate he has them, but gain a free pulpit from which to express his views on a subject Bush can never dare approach. Duty, service in combat, honors, and living up to responsibilities in the aftermath.

[Brotherjohn]

16. Exactly, without appearing preachy. Especially given that he has...

... symbolically renounced them. He can't very well trot them out and brag on them.

Letting the interest build... that's the key, and pretty ingenious. It would be, as you say, a "free pulpit", with no strings attached as to his denouncement of the war, and free reign to relentlessly counter-attack on Bush & Cheney's LACK of service. The longer it builds, the more THAT becomes an issue.

I still think it's possible he doesn't have them at all, though; that he chose to get rid of them at some later date (or even lost them, though I don't think that's likely).

[Cocoa]

15. he doesn't want to look like he's bragging

he's walking the line between being proud and being too proud, leaving it to others to talk about his heroism.

[lovedems]

18. You can't be a modest hero (which Kerry is) and show your medals

at the same time. I think this is personal and I don't blame Kerry one bit for not showing them. The only point in showing his medals is to prove that he has them and that is not the issue. We all know he earned those medals. I don't think he needs to show them at all.

Edit: I also think showing his medals will add 3 extra days to this extremely useless debate. It allows for continued distraction from the real issues.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. I don't agree with Dolstein that often, but he's on to something here.

You can't very well accuse Kerry of throwing away his medals if he's holding them up in front of the camera. So once he shows the medals, there's another ridiculous 'Puke argument shut down. Maybe the media will then ask Junior to show his dental work which supposedly proves he was on base in Alabama during the time he was said to be deserting.

[Brotherjohn]

21. But that's not what they're accusing him of. They're accusing him of lying

Lying about whether or not he threw away his "medals".

As OKNancy points out above (Google search "Kerry medals display office"), it is apparently common knowledge that his medals are on display in his office. Freepers are already questioning whether these are his actual medals or if he bought them.

They'll say (in fact are already saying) "But you said you threw your medals away!" So either you lied then or the medals on your desk are not yours, but ones you bought!"

He can't win if he plays their game. They will smear him no matter what he does. His current response to the "threw his medals away" claim is sufficient for now. He needs to firmly refute their accusation that he's inconsistent by firmly stating that he did NOT throw his medals away, but was talking about ribbons. He has now done this.

Either it then dies down, and the Repubs lose this one... or, if they keep harping, he THEN shows his medals if they start making a big case for "where are the medals!". If they do that, if THAT request builds, and THEN Kerry produces them (or says "anyone can see them, they're in my office"), then their inevitable accusations will end up looking pretty ridiculous. He can say "they're never happy". It will, in fact, be a very clear demonstration that they are "never happy". that they can never be satisfied, that they are endlessly partisan.

Oh, and they HAVE shown Bush's dental work. The problem is, that's about all he can or has produced as evidence of service.

[Brotherjohn]

22. Oh, and they're not outright asking yet because they KNOW he has them.

They're in his office. (see the link I posted above, from the "gopusa" site)

They don't want to go as far as having to accuse him of having fake medals on his desk. Even they realize that could backfire.

[sandnsea]

33. He DID throw his medals, the RIBBON PART

What part of this is so damned complicated to understand?

[farmbo]

24. "I'll show my metals if my crew...and those we left behind...allow me"

This is the approach he should take...The crew is so devoted to him that they will drive the issue favorably from that point on. Plus, next of kin of the KIAs will show outrage at Bush's politicization of the issue.

[Gold Metal Flake]

31. Too many words. One picture could stop all of this.

One picture of his medals and ribbons. Book have pictures of decorations, they cam be combined into one image. I believe that sometime, a medal is JUST a ribbon, no?

Anyway, one pix with all of his awards. Then, same pix but with circles around what was thrown away in protest. With that picture, you shut everyone up.

Pictures trump words. Sad but true.

[newyawker99]

43. Hi Godless Gearhead!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sandnsea]

32. Right wing stooge???

That's all I can figure if you're posting this nonsense after it's been explained 5,000 times. When you get a medal, you get a matching ribbon. Most of the time only the ribbons are worn. He threw the ribbons that represented the medals. He didn't have his medals with him at the time. He threw medals that belonged to some other soldiers. Do you intentionally not want to know the truth?

[Classical_Liberal]

34. The Kerry campaign are the losers that gave us 2002 in Georgia

.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. Oh please after all your advocacy of another candidate, I think you

can cite a more recent LOSER campaign.

[Classical_Liberal]

40. What are you talking about?

I am not a naderite.

[Tinoire]

37. He can't Dolstein

For 33 years he allowed people to believe that he had been an angry anti-war activist who took part in a very emotional ceremony where they threw their medals away out of sheer disgust for an illegal war.

This is one story that Kerry needs to just die, die, die.

Anti-Vietnam activists, many who are still around and active today, would jump off the kerry band-wagon for this. Some already did, years ago when the medals were spotted in his office.

This is a prime example of what happens when you stand in the middle of the road, trying to appeal to everyone at the same time, you risk getting run over. Best thing to do is make up your mind, stand on one side or the other and quit trying to appeal to everyone. To Kerry, I would suggest a hard Left because the anti-war momentum is growing.

Many Christians, solid God-fearing Christians, who voted for Bush last time are so totally disgusted with war and killing and what Bush has done to social programs for the poor that they could willingly vote for Kerry (because they're damn well not going to vote for Bush again) but many don't think Kerry has taken a much better stand. That is why I recommend a hard Left to capitalize on this... Let the center-right hold their nose for a change.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. I disagree. The longer they harp on this stupid issue, the more times

Kerry can hammer away at Bush for not being forthright about his own military records. If he shows his medals and the issue goes away, then he gets clocked with playing politics with his military service. This way, he can take the same cheap shots and continually reinforce that part of the reason Iraq is a mess is that the President is surrounded and advised by people who ditched war when THEY could have gone (but for Powell who was marginalized)

[Classical_Liberal]

41. Showing the medals ends the harping

and the polls are showing higher character negatives for Kerry than Bush.

[cindyw]

42. Vets will respect him more for keeping it private.

The amount of Vets who are still in denial about Vietnam is small. There is a contingent though who understand the true quality of why the whole situation was a quagmire. Those people will respect Kerry more for keeping the whole thing private.

[zoeyfong]

44. He ought to say he threw them away, and he was prouder of throwing

them away than of getting them in the first place. Jeesus h. Christ, i am so sick and tired of the worship of war in this country, even a war that hopefully most people now admit was a mistake. First kerry votes to get us into a losing, unnecessary war; now he can't even stand firmly behind his belated recognition that the the vietnam war was wrong.

[kskiska]

46. He HAS shown his medals

to Douglas Brinkley, his biographer.
From Salon
by Douglas Brinkley:

The veterans who tossed their medals at the steps of the U.S. Capitol in 1971 just wanted to wake up their country to the disastrous tragedy of Vietnam.

(snip)

"Do you still have the Silver Star," I asked Kerry. "Yeah," he said, "do you want to see it?" My answer was yes. He walked across his study to a secondary desk with clutter on top, mainly books, and opened the top right drawer. This is where he keeps all of his war medals.

"Nothing too fancy," he said as he pointed to the various boxes in which his medals were kept. "They don't bring back good memories." After glancing at them briefly we went back to our taped interview.

Out of all the stories that have hounded Kerry on the campaign trail, the issue of whether he threw away his ribbons or his medals is the most mendacious. Last week the media demanded to view Kerry's military records. The reason for the urgency was that Grant W. Hibbard, a lieutenant commander during Kerry's swift boat days in Vietnam, asserted that Kerry's first Purple Heart was undeserved. According to Hibbard, Kerry had a tiny scratch. The Boston Globe quoted him as saying, "I've had thorns from a rose that were worse." Over 35 years after the fact, Hibbard, a Republican, was trying to belittle, embarrass and malign Kerry.

But the release of Kerry's war record put an end to the flap. Stuck in the middle of released documents was an evaluation of Kerry by Hibbard, filled out two weeks after he supposedly told Kerry he didn't deserve a Purple Heart. Nowhere in Hibbard's evaluation did he mention any problem with Kerry over Kerry's winning a Purple Heart. In fact, Hibbard wrote that Kerry was one of the best sailors he knew in three categories -- initiative, cooperation and personal behavior. Why, if he thought Kerry was trying to finagle a Purple Heart, did he give him such high marks for personal behavior? As Katherine Q. Seelye reported in the New York Times once the document was released, Hibbard went underground, unwilling to grant interviews, hiding from the press in his retirement home in Florida. The story went away.

more…
http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/04/28/medals/index.html

[ngGale]

47. It's probably not the press he is hiding from, it's...

the stupid Bushco people that bribed him or forced him to lie about Kerry.

[Lexingtonian]

48. geez, calm down

He's a former soldier, not a medal display case. The more they're actually worth the less you show them to the crowd- isn't that the lesson of every Veteran's Day parade?

What is the deal with all your Monday morning quarterbacking? Kerry has never done things the way you've liked, he won the nomination anyway and how he's about as clearly in the lead against an incumbent as any challenger has been in 40 years- doesn't that tell you something about his political judgment relative to yours, even if you'll probably never find peace with his style?