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It's the politics, stupid! Voters don't want a lecture on race

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:43 PM
Original message
It's the politics, stupid! Voters don't want a lecture on race
I've been reading the replies to this issue from Obama supporters. I must begin by saying whatever happened to "unity" and a "post-racial" politics? Blaming one race isn't unifying and it sure as hell isn't "post-racial". Now on to the meat of the matter. Wright, while undeniably a racist, makes some legitimate points. That doesn't fucking matter. Do you think the rethugs are going to give the context of his remarks (remember "I voted for it before I voted against it"? Those folks are now going to give context?)? The only way to explain it is by giving a lecture on race relations. Are you kidding me? Are you serious? You think voters are going to sit there and listen to a lecture on race relations (I suppose Obama will channel Perot and buy infomercials because you aren't going to fit it all in during a 5 minute interview on CNN!)? Moreover, while it is true blacks, and minorities in general (you know, like GLBT folks who have been told to "get over it" and Latinos and Asians who have been tarred as racist by supporters of one candidate.) have suffered greatly in our history. Even today much discrimination exists (remember the "white name/black name" study from a couple years ago?). None of it is going to help Obama. Barack Obama. He is the last minority in the country who can use that as a defense. Minorities have suffered; Barack Obama has lived a charmed life that practically anyone, certainly anyone in politics aside from Bill Clinton (since he has been a successful two-term president), would love to trade with. Even Bush. If he were Obama at least he would be remembered in the history books for one good thing, breaking the racial ceiling to the White House. Let's recap Obama's life since his teen years (yes he was once poor but go ask John Edwards how that works with the media and voters...): prep school, Columbia, Harvard Law, marries a Harvard lawyer who becomes a wealthy executive, gets elected to the Illinois legislature, elected to the U.S. Senate thanks to two scandals, becomes a millionaire, best-selling author, Grammy winner, celebrity, and now front-runner to become president. Even if he loses he has had a hell of a life. Trying to portray Obama as somehow being a victim just isn't going to fly with voters, all of whom would give anything to be in Obama's position. Think about it. Think about how things play politically. Let's say this defense is used. You have a woman on welfare hearing some rich politician or rich non-politician surrogate (Axlerod) talking about how much Obama has suffered. What do you think the reaction of the woman on welfare, the man who is losing his job because General Motors shipped it to China, the senior citizen who looks back at his long life and sees not a happy skipping life of audacious hope but of heartbreak after heartbreak will be? That defense will fucking backfire on Obama.

Obama is running largely on his judgment. This is a big case of terrible judgment. What other politician goes to a church with a racist pastor? Even the rethugs aren't reckless enough to do that. The problem for Obama is you can't erase 20 years of assocation with this guy, who is not some mere crony in a national campaign. He is Obama's mentor, spiritual leader, and pastor. This goes to the heart of who Obama is, especially in the light what Obama himself has said about how important religion is to him (there is that judgment again: he basically invited an investigation into his church by running the most religious Democratic campaign since Carter).

This will be a huge problem in the general election. Let's put aside discussion of who started the racial flap regarding the Clintons for the moment. The bottom line is they were severely damaged by it. They had a three decade long record of staunchly fighting for equality. Yet they, respectively, went from leading with black voters and being a revered president who was affectionately called the first black president to 10-15% black support. That happened to two folks with long records and one who was in the White House for eight years and positively affected the lives of almost every American (whether you like to admit it or not the Clinton years were a great time for America). Now imagine what will happen to a guy with no record. I doubt he would fall to 10-15% white support but if the attack gets anywhere, which judging the history of racial swiftboating, suggests it will he is done. Whites are three out of four voters. Lose even 10% of them and that means 7.5% of the vote is gone in one fell swoop.

He is half white. He can cite this as an obvious defense. How can he be racist against himself and his mother and grandparents? Too bad this will only have a limited effect. I haven't seen any articles saying he is going to be both the first black president and the 44th white president. He has run as a black person, not a biracial one, and is seen as such. He didn't take the Tiger Woods route on his background and give them all an equal place. Nor should he be attacked for this. As he once said, when he tries to get a cab he is considered black. Still, as far as the politics of this go he would have had a lot stronger hand if had taken the Tiger Woods approach. How many people even know his mother was white?

To vote against Obama solely because of Wright would be a mistake; to ignore it altogether when deciding to vote for him would be equally as bad. Obama has many general election liabilities that have not really been tested and Wright ranks right up there on that list.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary supporters really seem hung up on race for some reason.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Typical. Just ignore Obama's vulnerabilites
Hey, maybe it is because Obama's pastor/mentor is a racist and that is breaking into the media now? Speaking of race, what about the Ferraro campaign in part II of the swiftboating of the Clintons on race (as if Hillary made her say the same thing in 1988 too :eyes: )? Where were your complaints then?

Obamites seem to instinctively know he is a weak candidate. That is why they want to shut down any discussion of his weak points.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. If you want to play the politics of personal destruction, I can play...
....by posting that REALLY FUCKING LONG ASS LIST OF LESS THAN SAVORY INDIVIDUALS AND OUTRIGHT CROOKS associated with the Clintons.

You want to go there, sweetie?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Once again: try to shut down discussion of anything not according to the gameplan
It is naive to pretend this isn't going to be an issue and to wish it away by calling it the politics of personal destruction, the very politics Obama himself used on the very matter to swiftboat the Clintons on race. You think the rethugs aren't chomping at the bit to swiftboat him as racist toward whites, 75% of voters?

Yeah, repost Ken Starr's work. Everyone knows about it. That is the point. Obama is unvetted. He is at his peak right now, Clinton at her ceiling versus McCain.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. And you are blind as a bat if you don't believe the Clinton's legacy is going to harm them.
Obama's negatives in polling are less than Hillary Clinton's and the right wing has a hatred for everything Clinton that makes your hatred of Obama pale by comparison.

Simply put, Hillary is the absolute WORST person we could put up for the nomination given that her "shadiness" and "underhandedness" have become part of the public consciousness whether deserved or not. Do you HONESTLY believe she can undo the damage done to her reputation in so short a time? Even Bill's negatives are going up now, what makes you think she is going to be able to reverse that trend when she can't even seem to get the majority of the base behind her when she was the presumptive nominee?

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Obama's negatives are going to rise if he is the nominee
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 08:10 PM by jackson_dem
And they definitely are going to rise of the msm covers Wright. Despite his low negatives he runs only 2-3 points better than Hillary against McCain. Guess what will happen once his negatives rise, as the negatives of every nominee do? Hillary, in contrast, is probably at her peak in negatives.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. Obama and Clinton Are Both Vulnerable
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 08:52 PM by Steely_Dan
The Repugs are going to have a field day whomever gets the Dem nod. Once again, we are about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. How sad.

-P
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Yeah, but unfortunately, Clinton not only has a decade and a half of bashing against her...
....which has been hardwired into the political psyche of not only right wingers, but many moderates as well, she has all of Bill's negatives too. Not to mention that some of her tactics in this race have underscored some of the negative personality traits that are attributed rightly or wrongly to her.

There is no doubt that the right wing is going to blast whichever candidate there is, but I think the Clinton's have so many things going against them it's hard to take her seriously as a candidate who can win.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
46. "Do you HONESTLY believe she can undo the damage done to her reputation ?"
Who damaged her reputation? Obama supporters did! She was doing fine in the polls across America before Obamites started falsely accusing the Clintons of racism and slinging RW mud at our own candidate. Now they complain that she's damaged goods. Well who the hell damaged her with her own party? All the stories about her were already known by the public and they still liked the Clintons. Obama Dems, the corp media, and left wing internet sites like this all reinforced all the RW crap about Hillary.

Good job my fellow Dems! Good job of helping to elect J McC.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. Actually, her own campaign did it by adding support to what was considered rumor.
I didn't think she was a bad person until she came out and start praising McCain over Obama and then began a campaign of trying to destroy Obama.

Now I really believe that a lot of the stuff said about her lust for power and vindictiveness is really true.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. I thought this was a primary race and one doesn't praise the competition .
Besides she didn't praise McCain. She simply stated the undeniable truth!
McCain has more experience than Obama! That's stating a fact...not an endorsement! Do you think the Rethugs didn't know that? Why can't you see she was just trying to make a point. How come Obamites can trash Hillary but if she says anything about Obama she is not worth a dime/vote?


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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. McCain has more experience than Hillary. Therefore, we should vote McCain?
And no, she really doesn't. Being married to someone in power doesn't make you qualified OR experienced.

He has more legislative experience than she has.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I saw and heard Ferraro say some thinly-veiled racist things in 1988
She has a history of doing it.

Back in 1988, she spoke at my university. She said some very disparaging things about Jesse Jackson's campaign and supporters back then that had racist undertones. Which is highly ironic, because the voters that Jackson and his people registered in 1984 and 1988 not only helped Mondale/Ferraro, but in 1986 helped retake the US Senate, and also helped Bill Clinton win in the south in 1992.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yup and it is BS to blame Hillary for Ferraro's statement
It is what Ferraro simply believes, unless they think Hillary made her say these things in 1988 too. :crazy:
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I never blamed Hillary for it. I blamed Ferraro.
I never even implied it was done by proxy.

Ferraro said it herself and she should be ashamed.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. This campaign wouldn't be about race at all if Clinton camp hadn't PUSHED it to be so
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 08:09 PM by blm
just to appeal to the Super Tuesday states where it might work for them.

Sell it somewhere people don't KNOW how games are played by PLAYERS.

We watched Gore and Kerry's elections get sabotaged by TeamClinton, and know they aren't the 'innocents' you and other gullible folks want to believe.

We KNOW....
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

What THEY....
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Are CAPABLE of doing to other Dems......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. This is the problem that I have, too
I'm not an "Obamabot" or whatever his strong supporters are being called; I do lean Obama now that Edwards is out of the race. But I do find some of the complaints coming from the Clinton camp that Obama has made this campaign about race to be hollow, because, to be the best of my memory, it *was* Bill Clinton who injected race into these primaries. I don't believe either of the Clintons are racist, but I don't have any difficulty believing that they would inject race into the campaign for their own political interests. If there is anything I'm forgetting that indicates Obama was trying to make this about race prior to the Clintons framing it in such a way, I'd be interested in seeing it; I really haven't been following the campaigns to the same extent that many DUers have. But AFAIK, the injection of race into the primaries came out of the Clinton camp, so I do have a problem with the Clinton now acting like it's Obama's fault that race has become a major factor in the primaries.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Michelle Obama: "black America will wake up" (November of 2007)
Obama surrogate Charles Barron in the same month said blacks should vote for Obama because he is black (Barron hasn't resigned like Ferraro). But somehow Bill started it in January by saying Obama's Iraq record was a "fairytale", which is the truth.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Sell it to those who haven't watched the gameplaying done by the Clintons over the years
The type of gameplaying that destroys the party infrastructure while all resources are used for THEM and to solidify THEIR power and serve their needs.

The type of gameplaying that worked to undermine Gore's campaign in 2000, and increased its deceit to undermine Kerry's campaign in 2004.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. So your "defense" of Obama running the most racist campaign since Reagan is the C's are bad?
Only Obama would have his national co-chair demand black superdelegates vote for him because he is black.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. You've got a real problem with race.
In fact, I'm hard pressed to remember a single post you have made that didn't bring up race.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Bull. Obama didn't want race to be a factor at all. Clintons PLAYED UP RACE for Super Tuesday
states they knew would buy into the backlash.

You really are underinformed and know so little about the last few decades.

This is a GAME by expert gameplayers who have been throwing other Dems over for their own power the entire time.

YOU side with them. That means you know very little about real history or you side with them because you AGREE with their agenda that protects BushInc first and above all.
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. I was thinking more of Clinton's "Jesse Jackson" comments
I never saw the alleged racism in the "fairytale" remarks, either.

Michelle's comments don't seem much worse than some of Hillary Clinton's appeals based on her gender. I agree with you that Barron's remarks are problematic, though I don't think he necessarily should have resigned. (However, I don't really think Ferraro's comments warranted resignation, either; I think that had more to do with "face-saving" on the part of the Clinton campaign due to the issue that the media made of them.)
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. That remark wasn't racist
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 08:48 PM by jackson_dem
Only two candidates have won the SC primary by winning unanimous support among one race and losing badly among the other group. One is Jesse Jackson. The other is Obama. Clinton seemed to momentarily forget that he is a former president and just gave political analysis. He shouldn't have said it, given who he is, but it was a perfectly legitimate comment. Everyone else, i.e. Edwards and Clinton himself, who won SC did say by winning across racial lines.

Hillary has played the gender card and that is wrong. I can admit it. Why can't Obama supporters?

BTW I originally supported Edwards until he dropped out. He didn't play the race or gender card, despite white males being a large group. Look at where it got him...
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
55. I don't think people realize BO and MO have made a lot of statements
over there life that were racial. Throughout there lives and even in Obama's books they both have made statements that were racial by nature. I'm not going to post my sources but suffice to say I wouldn't be surprised somewhere along the way between now and the general election if he is the nominee that these statements wont be brought up.
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Hillary supporters are not hung up on race
It is the O side who keeps the ball bouncing. Obama and pieces of shit like Keith Obermann
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. As if we are the ones who go to a racist church. Obama doesn't practice what he preaches
What happened to his "sincere" desire for "unity" and a "post-racial" world?
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. So tell me, how do you feel about Bill Clinton signing DOMA?
He didn't have to, but he did.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. You still haven't explained how reverend Wright is a racist
Why is that?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. I am sure to Obamites on DU he is not a racist. To the real world, though...
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yes, yes...your concern is duly "noted".
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. I'm asking you
In your own words, what did the pastor say that you feel was racist?
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yeah...remember when Obama made Ferraro make her racist remarks...
...or when Obama made Bill Clinton make that nasty "Jesse Jackson won there too" comment?

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Yeah, Hillary made her say it in 1988 too
Bill made a historical observation. Only two candidates have won SC on racial voting. Everyone else won it by winning support across racial lines--by "transcending race" in today's parlance. Two candidates got unanimous support from one racial group and lost badly among the other. One was Jesse Jackson. The other was...
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Phew! At First I Thought You Were Calling Keith OLBERMANN a Piece Of This. But Then I Realized It
was just some friend of yours name Keith Obermann. Phew! :crazy:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. Did you listen to Wright's tirade by any chance?
How many times did he mention black vs. white? Now go back and ask yourself who is hung up on race.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Yes, yes....we are all aware that Obama is held responsible for everything a person of color says.
Which is why it was DEMANDED of him that he denounce and reject Farrakhan even though they have no real connection.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Both candidates are held responsible for what is said
by anybody who is connected to their campaign, even if only remotely or by association. HRC has taken hits for Ferraro, Harold Mayberry, Judy Rose, her husband, etc. Obama has gotten it for Wright, Farrakhan, McClurkin, Samantha Power, etc. That's what happens in political campaigns, and neither one has been immune.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Fact is Farrakhan wasn't part of Obama's campaign, so forcing Obama to denounce him was stupid.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. He did endorse him though
And I'm sure if Stormfront had endorsed HRC like they did Ron Paul we'd demand she denounce them. I know I would.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Forgive me for not accepting YOUR lecture, dear
You've been flat wrong on everything this election season. Some of us remember your ridiculous prognostications. Not to mention that you have a huge ax to grind.

And no, I'm not saying that Wright won't be an issue in the general. I predicted that it would be 2 months ago. There's so much wrong with your OP- including the absurd contention that Obama hasn't focused on his white roots. He has- in almost every speech. And no, he hasn't run as a black candidate. He's run as a candidate who happens to be white.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. You keep repeating that without ever backing it up
What "ridiculous" prognostications?

Yeah, I have seen a zillion articles about Obama being the first biracial president. Google "Obama first black president" and you get 4.7 million hits. Google "Obama first biracial president" and you get 1/30th as many...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. All your prognostications about Edwards were wrong
and your ones about Obama fading.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Give us specifics
I never even said Edwards would win NH, SC, or NV. I didn't even expect a second for him in any state but viewed it as an outside possibility in SC after Clinton's black support collapse when she was attacked as racist against the group.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
26. tl;dr
lol
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. Excuse me? "He is half white. He can cite this as an obvious defense."
Why the hell would he need to cite that he is part white in order to defend himself?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. That would defend him to a degree if swiftboated as racist against whites
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. So are you saying that if he was fully black he would not be able to defend himself?
Wow. I never thought I would see the day when we had people on this site claiming that people should defend themselves by making sure that people know that they are not completely black and that people should focus on the white side of them. Do you even realize how disgusting that is?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Are you in touch with reality? Did you see what happened to the Clintons on race?
Had Clinton been half black that would have allowed her to defend herself from being swiftboated as anti-black to a degree by saying "I can't be racist against blacks. I am black myself."

I know Obamites love to play the race card at every opportunity (please continue. It is doing wonders for him in PA. :rofl: ) but it is pretty obvious it is easier to paint someone as racist against a group if they have no ties to that group. That is simple common sense.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Fascinating that you can't post a thread without talking about race, yet...
...you want to blame Obama supporters for playing the race card.

Kinda....suspicious.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Of course you are encouraging him to play the "race card" by telling people he is white too
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 10:40 PM by MN Against Bush
And for your information there is no card that minorities can play to give them an advantage in an election, in fact if you had even the slightest bit of historical knowledge you would know that blacks have faced a serious disadvantage in our electoral system since the founding of this nation. To even suggest that minority candidates have some race card they can play is false, if you think otherwise then tell me why blacks have always been underrepresented in every branch of government at all times throughout this nation's history.

And on another note, I am not an "Obamite" I have in fact been quite critical of him at times. I just call out racist attitudes when I see them.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Barack 1) reads my posts 2) listens to what I say?
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 10:55 PM by jackson_dem
I think you are confusing me with his racist mentor/pastor (ironic given your claims about opposing racism)...

That is naive. Obama leads the popular vote 49-47. He has done it but running a good campaign. There are plenty of non-bigoted cards to play. Still his record shows he played both the homophobia card (which started to move his numbers in SC) and the race card to swiftboat the Clintons on race. The notion that swiftboating on race is a loony idea is itself loony. It happened to the Clintons just two months ago and round II of it ensued just this week. Her numbers fell from leading among blacks to 10-15%. It is naive to think Obama is immune from being swiftboated himself on race. The difference will only be the alleged target of the candidate's racism.

Don't lecture me on minorities. I am one. I know many Obamites love to make themselves feel good by thinking that Obama is somehow a victory against 400 years of slavery and Jim Crow. As if Obama will travel back in time and free the slaves. :eyes: Blacks are underrepresented, as are women, not to mention Latinos (0 Latino governors and 2 Latino senators) and Asians (1 governor and 0 senators). That isn't the same as saying Obama is somehow an underdog. That is as naive as saying JFK was an underdog because he was a Catholic. Someone who claims to know history would understand the complex dynamics identity politics and bigotry play in politics, not take a simplistic view as you do that is straight out of the cleverly crafted Obama comic book. JFK is an example of the complexities surrounding such things as is Mitt Romney. Do you think it is a mere fluke he won every state with a large Mormon population? It also is no fluke that he struggled among evangelicals.

You're another example of someone who tries to shut down discussion of Obama, often by using the race card, which is the card of choice of Obamanation. What cowards. The Obama pastor story is breaking in the news yet you clowns continue to try to censor the blogs. :rofl:

You sidestepped the obvious: had Clinton been half black that would have helped her defend herself against charges that she was somehow racist against blacks. To think otherwise is sheer idiocy, but that is something no one can help you with...

Please continue using the race card. I am a minority and am getting annoyed at it. I wonder what whites think about it. I am sure playing it again and again will help Obama with white voters in PA, where he isn't even breaking 30% white support.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Wow, now I am trying to censor the blogs? When did I propose censorship?
And when did I say that women and hispanics were not underrepresented? And didn't I just say that I am not an "Obamite" and in fact criticized Obama on many occasions?

I will look forward to your citation of my supposed calls for censorship because I don't remember making them, but I am sure you would not lie about me so I should see a citation from you soon so that you can prove to everyone that you are not just making crap up.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. You are pathetic. On to ignore but PLEASE keep playing the race card for Obama
It will help him in PA. :spray:
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. I am pathetic? I just asked you a direct question on an accusation you made...
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 07:25 AM by MN Against Bush
And your response? Ignore. And while I know you won't see this, I think we all know who brought race into this discussion.
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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. So you respond
by giving a massive lecture on race.

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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. I think you are right
that the Wright connection is going to damage Obama's chances in the General Election, should he be nominated. The Republicans will have no restraints on how hard to push the issue.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. Sore because Bill might lose his "first black president" title?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. What difference does it make to me?
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 09:50 PM by jackson_dem
Besides even if Obama loses he has lost the title thanks to Obama's swiftboating of him on race.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
41. deleted-dupe
Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 08:57 PM by anonymous171
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Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
49. I agree that Wright is a major problem for Obama. But...
I think it needs to be discussed.

I also think the H.C. supporters that are rolling in it like it's dead fish are sick people because they ARE NOT saying "Look, this could kill Obama's chances at getting elected BECAUSE people will react irrationally about it." Rather they are ACTUALLY spewing the kinds of shit you would expect only from idiots.

For credibility's sake, I would say "Look - some people are going to argue that Obama has serious anti-American tendencies based on his pastor's teachings." Nope - we have people actually thinking Obama hates America. It's Freepersville.

And yes - I think this same standard should apply the other way.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
54. You probably have me on ignore...
but I think that was pretty darn good analysis of the reality of the situation.
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Raffi Ella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
63. Excellent post - Thank You!
This isn't about Barack Obama - This is about getting a Democrat elected in November.If Barack becomes a liability for Our chances in November -for whatever reason -then I expect each and every one of Our Democratic Leaders to do something about it.

This is NO TIME to let a Man - any man,no matter how great some may think he is- come between Our chance of winning back the White House.

And this Wright thing is a BIG DEAL.Like it or not it is and it very well DOES speak of his judgment and in an incredibly revealing way at that.
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