Why is Obama apparently completely inseparable religion, but Hillary is off the hook ?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

Isn't she a member of "the Fellowship"?

Could it be that both people can agree with their prayer groups on some issues and not on others?

[Yes We Did]

1. She's a white female victim. That means it's okay. Didn't you get that memo?

[jackson_dem]

2. Ask Mitt Romney why some religions matter more politically

Or Keith Ellison.

What is "the Fellowship" anyway? Let me guess: it is considered to be "mainstream".

[SemiCharmedQuark]

5. Here's a link:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[jackson_dem]

7. Any bigotry from her pastor? Hillary being religious is an electoral plus

[SemiCharmedQuark]

9. Bigotry all around some of their highest ranked members:

"The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators."

[DemBones DemBones]

13. Got proof HRC belongs to The Fellowship? Didn't think so.

She belongs to a prayer group with other Senators.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

19. Here's an article by the Observer

http://www.observer.com/node/30945

[DemBones DemBones]

21. NO MENTION of The Fellowship in that article.

It only says she belongs to two prayer groups, one in the Senate and one a women's prayer group which she has belonged to since she came to Washington as First Lady.

The article said that many of the women were Republicans, which only proves that not many Democrats join prayer groups. Republican women from her prayer group comforted
HRC when the Monica Lewinsky scandal unraveled. I wonder how many Democrats reached
out to her then?

Dems are out of sync with most Americans about religion. Many Dems are atheists or
agnostics, most Americans are theists. HRC should talk more about her faith but she may be unwilling to use it for political advantage.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

27. Ok here's another that specifically mentions the Fellowship.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200611/green-hillary

[LisaM]

37. It doesn't actually say she belongs to it

It says that the prayer group she is in is led by the person who leads the Fellowship, but it doesn't actually say she's in it.

[Cant trust em]

3. No one's looking into the Clinton's church, or McCain's church

or any other white politician's church even though it's entirely possible that they also attend nearly all white congregations. I'm not making any accusations on anyone's church, but no one seems to be interested in finding out. Since Obama attends a black church, that's big news.

[jackson_dem]

6. Ah, the race card again. Have you ever heard of Mitt Romney? Since when is he black?

Obamites need to quit playing the race card each time St. Obama is criticized or even questioned. That act will wear out at some point. It may have already worn out if you look at polling in PA and what happened in Ohio, Texas, and MS with Obama and the white vote and the Latino vote in Texas.

[Cant trust em]

18. as long as there are ethnic candidates, or female candidates

there will be the "card". Earth to jackson_dem, minorities (women included as well as religious minorities) get treated differently. Not talking about it doesn't make it go away. If there's anything that is getting overused it's the phrase "race card".

[TwilightGardener]

4. Her group believes that a certain elite few are entitled by God to assume power.

Someone should ask her about that.

[jackson_dem]

8. Just like Presbyterians? Now this is a winning political issue!

Presbyterian

Andrew Jackson
James Knox Polk *
Ulysses S Grant *
Rutherford B. Hayes *
James Buchanan
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
Woodrow Wilson
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Ronald Reagan

[DemBones DemBones]

11. . . .

:rofl:

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Methodists believe that?

Get a long, little doggie, and stop pooping on the carpet.

[TwilightGardener]

26. ??--What's with the fecal obsession of Hillary supporters? No, the Fellowship, not

the Methodist church. Read the Mother Jones article all about Hillary's DC "prayer group".

[DemBones DemBones]

10. Because she didn't purposely join a church

with a racist pastor who is chummy with a very well-known racist anti-Semite Muslim.

Obama's preacher went to Libya to see Qadafi with Farrahkan and gave Farrakhan an award last fall. You'd think he was trying to sabotage Obama's campaign with that award but so far he's still part of the campaign.

Obama wrote about how South Side Chicago blacks didn't trust him as a community organizer until he joined a church, and he picked Wright's church because of Wright's radical messages.

Clinton is a Methodist who belongs to a Senate prayer group that is led by a member of The Fellowship. At least one member is Catholic, so it's apparently nondenominational.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

14. She is not required to be in the group. She is an active participant.

Her leader was chummy with the Nixon clan.

Coe counsels that Fellowship cells shouldn't engage in direct evangelical activism, but rather allow Christian causes to benefit from the bonds that develop within the cells. Former Nixon counsel Chuck Colson provides a rare illustration of the process in his 1976 Watergate memoir, Born Again. Facing prosecution in 1973, Colson allowed Coe to ensconce him in a Fellowship cell with a Nixon foe, Senator Harold Hughes. Hughes became the Nixon hatchet man's staunchest defender, voting in favor of a possible pardon for Colson and later supporting Colson as he built Prison Fellowship, now one of the most powerful organizations of the Christian right.

[DemBones DemBones]

22. Is there an all-Democrat prayer group? I'd guess not.

I belong to groups in which many members are Republicans but are good people, the
sort who volunteer at the soup kitchen, collect goods for the shelter for battered
women, do fundraisers for charities, make quilts for hospitalized children and children
who have to be removed from their homes and put into foster care, donate to charities,
visit nursing homes,etc., etc. Most of them are intelligent, too, and well-read.

Belonging to those groups hasn't turned me into a Republican. I hate it when they
talk politics but I have Dem friends in the groups and we argue against them.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

28. BINGO!!!!

Exactly right. You can enjoy doing social work and praying with a group of people without picking up political ideas.

[MojoMojoMojo]

33. Not when the sermans are mainly political.Nice try though

[yardwork]

16. I don't care and here's why.

As an Episcopalian who left the church because it rejected gay people, I'm now a pagan who knows that I'll never see a president elected in the U.S. who belongs to my religion. Nor will I see a president elected who belongs to a denomination that doesn't discrimate against gay people.

So why should I care which church Obama belongs to, and who his pastor chooses to befriend? They all reject me because I'm gay.

And besides, it seems to me that Obama's connections with muslims and radical black preachers give him insight that we've not seen in the White House, certainly not in the past seven years. I see it as a strength of Obama's.

[DemBones DemBones]

23. You should care and here's why:

Obama will lose far more votes than he will gain over his close association with his
radical pastor.

McCain will win if Obama is our nominee. You think McCain cares about gays or
pagans?


BTW, haven't you heard that the Episcopal church now has a gay bishop who lives
openly with his lover? I'm pretty sure they're doing same sex weddings, too. "It's
not your father's Episcopal church."

[yardwork]

42. They're not doing same sex marriages. They're doing "blessings of unions."

Separate and unequal. Hmph.

I think it's ridiculous to reject a moderate candidate just because his minister has said some radical things. That's absurd.

[MojoMojoMojo]

35. I posted earlier that Obamas denomination welcomes gays.

United Church of Christ.
I dont know if the Trinity church has that same philosophy.They seem to have a different stance on things than the rest of the denomination.

[Texas Hill Country]

15. HUGE DIFFERENCE... ill explain...

Hillary had someone on her campaign talk crap... they are no longer with the campaign...


Obama has a pastor whose church he purposely joined, who was his mentor, got him the community organizer job, married him and his wife, baptized his children, named his book, was invited to speak at his nomination announcement... clearly they are VERY VERY close.

This guy has said:

"God damn America"

"911 is America's own fault"

"America is arrogant and no better than anywhere else"

"Louis Farrakhan is a great man"

"I went to Libya in the 80's, met with Khadafi and found him to be a great man."


And then there is all the anti-whitey talk...


Seriously... big difference.

[yardwork]

17. I think it's a good thing to elect a president who understands radicals.

A lot of people in the world feel exactly the same as Reverend Wright. We're not doing ourselves any favors by ignoring that fact. Obama understands. He would be a good president.

[Texas Hill Country]

20. that makes no sense. these issues are fundamental to his beliefs, which means that they are...

fundamental to Obama too... and that is not acceptable IMO, and will definitly prevent him from getting into the whitehouse.

These rants of the pastors speak to the heart of what seperates his church from others... Obama could have picked a church with a more moderate viewpoint.

btw - just to get this out of the way, I would also not approve of a falwell or robertson-ite...

[MojoMojoMojo]

38. Obama imitates the speech of MLK,why doesnt he attend a church which

espouses MLK philosophy?
He pretends to be like MLK but its obviously just to get votes.

[yardwork]

41. I don't think that there is any evidence that Obama is bigoted or hates America.

The church is a United Church of Christ - a very progressive, liberal denomination. Ministers say nutty things all the time. That doesn't mean that the entire congregation believes them.

Obama is not a radical. In fact, his views are very centrist. His voting record is centrist.

[MojoMojoMojo]

36. Obama Unelectable but understanding.8 more Republican years is what I understand

[ficus1]

24. Because there's video

[Iceburg]

43. Lots of videos -- maybe some inner city folk have witnessed such

radical behavior (simulated humping) and hateful teachings (vile racism and sexism) but this video collection is going to come as a very big shock to the soccer mums and dads.

[K Gardner]

25. OMG.. can we post 200 different threads about Hillary's church tomorrow?? Let's do !

[amandabeech]

29. If they're like the sermons in the United Methodist Church that I grew up in,

they'll only be watched by those in search of a sleeping aid.

Nowadays, though, I think that there are modern worship services in some UMC churches. Those would probably not be as good for the insomniacs.

[K Gardner]

32. I grew up in a Methodist church. Slept most every Sunday. Then converted to Catholicism, LOL.

[amandabeech]

34. I rehearsed my twirling routines in my head.

My pastor was a real jerk, and I refused to take confirmation classes. He was later recalled because he thought that he had a direct line to God, which is very un-Methodist as you know. He was later defrocked and rumor had it that the Wesleyans (horror!) took him in.

I hope that you're happy with Catholicism. I'm something of a Protestant Deist myself.

[rpannier]

31. Then we can post

200 threads about what Obama eats for breakfast and whether he eats the same foods that Sen Obama does

then
200 threads on the color of the clothes that HRC wears and whether those are really republikkan colors

It's amazing how many useless threads that are out there.

The Minister of his or her Church should be one of them (useless)

[rpannier]

30. Yes it is...

I go to a Catholic Church here in Korea and I do not agree with the parish priest on a range of issues.

So it is very possible.
It's a good analogy to use with Catholics, because it's one most American (and western European) Catholics understand.
I go to Church, but I have different attitudes on some issues than the Church hierarchy does.

[Moochy]

39. I'd like to buy a pronoun for $200

[Redstone]

40. Could it be that people will ask utterly incomprehensible "questions" here in GD-P?

Redstone

[JerseygirlCT]

44. Don't go introducing logic in this forum...

Isn't that against the rules or something?