Scorched Earth Hillary hits again!

[last1standing]

It all seemed to start with an e-mail...
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Clinton_staffer_on_antiObama_email_chain.html

And wasn't it enough to point out that Obama had admitted to using drugs as a young man via Bill Shaheen?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3992371&page=1

Did she have to emphasize it using Robert L. Johnson?
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/bet-chief-raps-obama-in-sc/

Did Bill really have to turn South Carolina's win into a racial issue?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/27/clinton/

Was it necessary to threaten to sue Nevada?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/us/politics/12nevada.html

Texas?
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5580749.html

Did she really need to change her stance on Michigan and Florida?
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080216/D8URLU1O0.html

After all that does she really need to endorse McCain's experience over Obama's?
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/03/01/politics/fromtheroad/entry3896372.shtml

Does anyone, Clinton or Obama supporter really not think this is scorched earth tactics?

If so then does this change your mind?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/12/countdown-geraldine-ferraros-racial-comments-about-barack-obama/

And now Scorched Earth Hillary hits again pushing the non-story of what the EX-pastor of a church Obama belongs to has said, even though it has nothing to do with the Obama campaign. When will this end?

Seriously, folks. We can go back and forth all through these horrid primaries debating whether these examples are individual actions of subordinates or part of a concerted effort to use scorched earth tactics against the leader in the Democratic primaries, but when you put them all together I think it's hard to deny what's happening here. Clinton is destroying the chance for a Democrat to win in 2008 against John McCain. More and more, people are seeing this and turning away from the Clinton camp, but she just doesn't stop. What will it take to end this nightmare that has become the Clinton campaign?

[leftofcool]

1. Hillary did this?

Sorry but Sean Hannity has been on this for months and Fox news acquired the videos. Please supply a link where the Hillary Camp had anything to do with the Wright problem

[last1standing]

3. So you think it's just one more coincedence that this is getting so much airplay now.

Right after the Ferraro scandal, too. Wow! It's amazing how conveniently things happen like this, huh?

[leftofcool]

19. It didn't just start

It' been going on for months. This has been hitting the papers and faux news just about every 30 days

[hamnose]

21. Yeah this has been going on for months

And now Hillary supporters are outraged at the flak they get.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3992371&page=1

"On Sunday, a second Clinton staffer -- Linda Olson, an Iowa County volunteer coordinator, who followed Jones County coordinator Judy Rose -- was asked to resign after reporters discovered she had forwarded an e-mail repeating the scurrilous allegation that Obama, a member of the United Curch of Christ, is a Muslim plant."

[leftynyc]

27. So which is it?

Is the Clinton campaign inferring he's a Muslim or that he belongs to a racist Christian church?

[last1standing]

32. It's whichever one sticks. Hopefully both.

I'm finding it interesting that none of the Clinton supporters can address the point of the thread and are just jumping on the fact that there's no smoking gun on the ex-pastor, yet. All except oasis who seems to love the fact that Clinton is destroying the party.

[leftynyc]

34. No smoking gun???

How about this article:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

You may not care about it and frankly that doesn't matter, I assume all liberals will vote for Sen Obama in November. What are the indies going to think? Those are the votes we need in swing states to beat McCain.

[last1standing]

42. What are they going to think of Clinton's Dubai connections?

What will they think of the unreleased tax documents? What will they think of the Marc Rich pardon? What will they think of eight more years of the same bullshit? Clinton has made sure that she can not win this November by alienating a major voting block with her racially charged campaign. Unfortunately, she's also making it impossible for Obama to win by the same methods. That is why it's called scorched earth.

[leftynyc]

49. Oy Vey - FORGET HILLARY

She's done. I'm speaking of the general election and how this will play with the independents in the swing states. And stop blaming Hillary for everything coming out about Sen Obama - it's childish especially when sean hannity has been beating this horse for months. I was looking forward to hanging Hagee around McCain's neck because he looks like a lunatic. Unfortunately, Wright will look like a lunatic as well to the independents. This issue has to be addressed and putting our heads in the sand or, even worse, blaming Hillary for everything will not work.

[last1standing]

50. In the GE no one is going to care about Hagee.

He's white and "mainstream". He has a television show. Just like Robertson, Falwell, Bob Jones and all the others, Hagee's views will be pushed under the table with, or without, Obama's connection to the ex-pastor of a church he attended. It's sad but true. If you don't believe me, look at every election from 1980 till now for proof. As for Clinton's connection, much like bush* with his WMDs in Iraq lies, we can no longer believe her when she says she's not involved in a smear. There's just too much coincidence for most people to believe her whether its true or not. That's what scorched earth does - it destroys the opponent but hurts you as well.

[leftynyc]

58. It doesn't matter where it came from

I'm already thinking ahead to the general election where this is going to be a problem. Those that don't think so or keep trying to deflect it to Hillary are putting their heads in the sand.

[last1standing]

60. It's impossible to ignore Clinton's remarks while the primaries are in progress.

I understand what you're saying and I wish I could agree, but so long as Clinton can make news and uses that ability to create racial tensions between black and white Americans she can't be ignored because this will carry over into the GE as the vote in the former group will be depressed and the latter group will have the seeds of racism planted.

[leftynyc]

62. My point was that independents

wont care where it came from when the general comes around. They are just going to hear the soundbites that make it into whatever 527 ad comes from this. There will be no context and believe me when I say that independents will find this pastor just as racist as Ferraro.

[last1standing]

64. That pastor IS just as racist as Ferraro, no doubt about it.

As for what independents think, I don't know what can be done about it and I know it will hurt Obama just as each of the points I linked to in the O/P will. That's the problem when scorched earth tactics are used. This is all being done purposefully to ensure just that. I really wish I had an answer that could help but Clinton has the power to destroy the chances for a Democrat to win the white house in 2008. I don't think anyone can stop it.

And just to be clear, I never thought that either Clinton or Obama could win in November. I supported Edwards for his economic policies and when he dropped out I was completely undecided. I finally came out for Obama when I saw how destructive Clinton's actions were. I don't think Obama is likely to win, but I know that Clinton won't. At this point she's not even trying.

[leftynyc]

79. I'm not quite as pessimistic as

you but it's close. While I happen to like Hillary Clinton and voted for her as Senator - not the first time against Lazio where I just had to skip the race - I always felt the press wouldn't give her a shake and the dislike for her was very widespread and almost insane in places. I worry that this is still a very racist country (and recent events prove me right on that) and that when people get into that booth, they will search for a reason that has nothing to do with race in order not to vote for Sen Obama. They'll see something like this preacher as a gift from the gods (so to speak). I think McCain has a lot of issues that could bring him down and that this election will be as close as 2000 - it could go either way.

For the record, my choices were Biden and Richardson - I have been absolutely lost since.

[neverforget]

41. He's not a muslim "as far as she knows." Nice qualifier.

[leftynyc]

59. I agree it was a stupid thing of her to say

and I don't believe she has a chance at the nomination now because of how stupidly she has run her campaign. Now, what do we do about Pastor Wright when it comes to the general?

[Hieronymus]

2. Perhaps Hillary is hoping McCain will pick her for his VP.

[City Lights]

7. I'm all for that!

:hi:

[Hieronymus]

14. Not surprising. I suspect many Hillary supporters prefer a Republican.

[anamandujano]

4. Blame it on Hillary. She forced Obama to attend Wright's sermons for 20 yrs.

[scheming daemons]

8. I've listened to my crazy Repug friends for 20 years... doesn't mean I agree with them...

...

[last1standing]

So we should hold Clinton accountable for her church's homophobic views?

OK, gotcha. While we're at it can we tie her in with their antisemitism as well? At least then we're playing on an even ball field.

[anamandujano]

40. Yes, because she controls the MSM which has been trashing her relentlessly.

Makes a lot of sense. :eyes:

[rucky]

5. Toxic. n/t

[aquarius dawning]

6. yeah baby, we're marching to the sea.

[anamandujano]

38. Like lemmings, you're following Obama off a cliff.

[last1standing]

46. Brilliant observation. I can only say "backatcha".

n/t

[aquarius dawning]

51. I'm not actually.

I'm all about Hillary. I'm all about scorched earth too. Absolutely.

[grantcart]

9. k and r

[Arkansas Granny]

10. If you are going to make an accusation about Clinton's campaign

being involved with "Pastorgate" you should have some kind of evidence to back up your claims.

[last1standing]

13. Yeah the timing of this coming out was just a coincedence....like all the others.

Maybe Clinton should become a professional craps player with that kind of luck.

[leftynyc]

30. Would the timing have seemed

more suspicious last month? Or perhaps next month? The reality is that Sen Clinton would have been blamed no matter when this came out. Nobody wants to address the fact that sean hannity has been attacking on this front for months. And forget Hillary. Think ahead as to how this will play in the general election.

[Arkansas Granny]

36. Coincidence isn't proof. There's been stuff circulating for months

about Obama's pastor.

[last1standing]

44. There's no "proof" that any of the other stuff can be tied to her, either.

Just a lot of things that just seem to happen at the right time. Isn't that odd?

You have to love plausible denial.

[knixphan]

11. McCain/Clinton vs Obama/Richardson

[oasis]

12. When Hill said "I'm in it to win it" you and Obama should have strapped on your seatbelts.

When McCain wipes the floor with "Mr. Hope" it won't be because Hillary didn't warn you.

[last1standing]

16. Truly amazing comment, oasis. Sickeningly disturbed, but amazing.

n/t

[oasis]

24. Amazing, amazing, amazing.

[oasis]

20. "Amazing" because "truth is stranger than fiction".

;-)

[earthlover]

23. you sound like you are looking forward to such a horrible thing as McCain winning!

We don't need Hillary to make McCain's job any easier. When a republican can point to what a DEMOCRAT has said about a candidate and just say "I agree with her" it makes it a heck of a lot easier to gang up on our nominee. Why plant the memes for the Reps?

It is disheartening to find that so many Hillary supporters would support McCain. The overwhelming majority of OBama supporters are loyal Democrats and will vote Democrat against McCain. Many of Hillary's supporters are not true Democrats and would support McCain.
So we are supposed to listen to these folks tell us what to do with our party?

[oasis]

29. I'm voting Democrat no matter how weak our candidate is. I'm not going

to be an apologist for him. If the party refuses to come to its senses by convention time, I'm not obliged to drink the Kool-aid with the rest of the gang.

I'll vote for Obama, but I'll be damned if I defend him on his weaknesses.

[earthlover]

53. likewise on Hillary's weaknesses....

[oasis]

69. Huh? She's head and shoulders over Obama on national defense.

You know it, you just refuse to admit it.

[last1standing]

71. Yeah, because invading Iraq was such a good plan she approved it for Iran as well.

That's some good national defense experience she has.

[earthlover]

73. I said likewise on Hillary's weaknesses...I forgot...the Hillary Herd thinks she has NO Weaknesses!

Sorry, my bad....sarc

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. Would you agree that Rev. Hagee is as polarizing as the Rev. Wright?

John McCain's got his very own nutcase to deal with...you know the guy who endorsed him and said that Catholicism is a bastardized "cult" religion? And likened their faith to that of a whore? You guys are absolutely shameless, but who cares if you destroy the party? I've come to the conclusion that I'm okay with that.

[leftynyc]

33. yes, but now we can't use that

That's the problem in a nutshell.

[oasis]

67. There's dozens of Hagee's out there. McCain can't denounce them all.

Why should he even try? They are considered much more closer to the mainstream than muslim idolaters.

[Tarheel_Dem]

76. still trying to push the muslim meme, huh? I agree with Ari Berman...

you guys are shameless.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5068042

[oasis]

78. I'm not pushing anything. Rev. Wright's the guy who sings the praises of Louis

Farrakhan,a muslim.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. Obama and his choice of "spiritual adviser" is to blame NOT Clinton

[uponit7771]

17. Has HRC denounced her homophobe pastor yet? No?!! Hypocrit...thx :-)

[last1standing]

18. So we CAN hold Clinton responsible for her church's positions, good.

Looks like Clinton holds homophobic and antisemitic beliefs then. Great.

[earthlover]

31. Hillary has been a member of the secretive "The Fellowship"

Which also has a former head of the militant group Operation Rescue and other conservative leaders as members.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

I really don't think Hillary should be going there, with regards to attacking the minister of an opponent. Glass houses, ya know....

[ProgressiveEconomist]

54. GREAT LINK! Does Doug Coe (HRC spiritual advisor) sit on a religious committee connected

to HRC's campaign?

For the media, Doug Coe evidently provides much more material for followup than does Jeremiah Wright.

I find this sentence in the MJ article at your link the most intriguing:

From http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-2.html , at the bottom of the page:

"Clinton ... has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance."

(??!!!***)

[earthlover]

74. Uh....to blame for WHAT?

What is Obama to blame for? For going to church?

[caledesi]

22. I am disappoint by the Clintons! NT

[rndmprsn]

25. hyper hillary, calamity clinton...perpetual crisis mode!

we need someone steady as a rock...barack and no drama obama!

[earthlover]

35. what part of the kitchen sink is going to be thrown TOMORROW?

It seems that every day or at least every week the Clinton campaign comes up with something else to try to attack Obama's character with.

Earlier this week, racism. Now lack of respect for religious belief.

What next? Heck, they even have gone after Obama's kindergarden records.

And they still don't have time to release Hillary's tax records....

[anamandujano]

43. I think the MSM will stay on this story awhile. Maybe they can use it

to attack Hillary, like you are.

She does not control the media, as you insinuate.

[last1standing]

48. So was everything in the O/P a coincedence?

I'd love to here what you think about all of those coincidences.

[anamandujano]

63. Sorry I can't help you. This is going to hit him like a ton of bricks.

You can try to blame Hillary, but Hannity should get the credit.

[last1standing]

65. So you're willing to ignore what's plainly evident so that you can continue to support a hatemonger.

No, you can't help me and your candidate won't help this country. It's all about the Clintons now and there's nothing we can do to stop their destruction. Do you feel no shame in helping them?

[City Lights]

28. Who will stop her?

I've contacted my representatives and was told to contact the individual campaigns. I've contacted the DNC, but haven't heard back yet, although Dean was on Morning Joe this morning and seemed to think things are going swell for us. He indicated that what we're seeing is normal and when it's all over, the supporters of the losing candidate will fall in line behind the winner.

[last1standing]

37. I wish I knew.

Dean has to say that everything is going fine. His job is to help Democrats win in all races not just the presidency. He needs to put the best face on this fiasco he possibly can.

[City Lights]

56. I know. I'd feel so much better, though, if I knew something was happening

behind the scenes. :-(

[last1standing]

57. So would I but that would defeat the purpose of being behind the scenes.

Myself, I'm going to trust that the DNC is doing everything it can to resolve this with as little fallout as possible. They're not miracle workers, though. If Clinton wants to destroy our chances in 2008, she has the power to do it and no one can really stop her that I know of.

[aquarius dawning]

52. Yet more evidence that Dean is incompetent and needs to be fired.

[last1standing]

55. Right. Because Clinton's pick for DNC chair led us to all those majorities.

Do you even think about how stupid your posts are before you press submit?

[aquarius dawning]

66. do you even stop to consider how biased your opinions are?

The 2006 democratic wins were an inevitable response to the Bush administration's poor performance. It had little to nothing to do with Howard Dean. The average American barely recognizes Howard Dean's name. Dean thinks Democrats will rally behind the nominee. He's clearly delusional. His leadership has resulted in the political equivalent of a Katrina for the Democratic party. If that's cool with you than you're not a Democrat, you're an Obamacrat.

[last1standing]

70. Thank you, Mr. Carville. Any more lines of B.S. you want to feed us ignorant peasants?

The reason we won in 2006 had more to do with actually funding and supporting candidates in "red" states (you know, the places where we picked up the most seats) and formerly non-competitive races than any scandals or Katrina. If we had gone with the Clinton approved swing-state strategy we'd still be in the minority. If you don't see that then it's you who has the problem with bias and that makes you a Scorched Earth Hillbot, not a Democrat.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. When will it end you ask? When Hillary is elected President in 2012.

[grassfed]

45. glaringly obvious to all what Hillary's up to

her supporters can say all they want but if they think there won't be long term repercussions they're mistaken

[last1standing]

61. It should be obvious but they somehow seem to be avoiding it.

I've laid it out as clearly as I can but not one supporter has been able to say that all those things were coincidence.

[thoughtcrime1984]

47. I'll see your Wright and raise you a Hagee

The difference is, Hagee stood with McCain and endorsed him, as McCain basically said "this man shares my thoughts and beliefs". Obama denounced Wright as "a crazy Uncle" type.

[BigDDem]

68. What? No links from Drudge??

:rofl:

[last1standing]

72. You mean the repub the Clintons have been courting?

Nope. I preferred using real sources that couldn't be disputed. It seems that wasn't good enough for you because any source not stamped with the Clinton Approved logo must be pro-Obama.

Do you even read the crap you post?

[Tarheel_Dem]

80. Not just courting...there's evidence that they have joined forces to

take down Obama. A lot of "synergy" between the Clinton & McCain camps. A lot of money changing hands between the two camps. And the right seems to have come out full bore to push hillary over the top. And if she gets re-votes in MI & FL, I believe she'll be the nominee, but I and many others leave the party.

[Seabiscuit]

75. What a pack of lies and what a steaming pile of unspeakable b.s.

Why not just blame everything on the Clenis? When is BO going to take responsibility for his own actions?

Welcome to my "ignore" button.

[stillcool]

77. Isn't it such a coincidence?

this racial, Islamophobia crap follows the Clinton Campaign around everywhere it goes. Poor Hillary.