Question: What did Jeremiah Wright say that wasn't true? Thank you in advance

[uponit7771]

BTW: Talking about racial issues isn't racist

[Strelnikov_]

1. ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5056606&mesg_id=5057262

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism."
. . .

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.

[blogslut]

7. How is that racist?

In your view

[Strelnikov_]

13. It's not.

What I stated in the linked post: And, quite frankly, I think his 'home to roost' view of 9/11 is now the majority view in this country. He was just ahead of the curve.

Don't know what else he has said. But addressing the quotes provided in the article referenced in the linked thread, it does not appear to me to be any different than the opinion of a majority of the members of this site.

Article:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

[Breeze54]

8. Some of what he says I agree with....

"In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001
that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism."

[Political Heretic]

90. It's called blowback. You disagree with this?

[papau]

17. details below for "racist" charge

1.As recently as February, 2007 Wright's Church listed a 10 point value system including, "supporting black leadership", "black instutitions", and the "black value system." Black columnist Erik Rush, among others, has pointed out that if the word "white" were substituted in a similar value system for a mostly white church it would be labeled as racist.

2. Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam: Wright travelled to Libya with Farrakhan in the 1980s. In 2007, Wright addressed this by saying "When enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gadaffi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell." In 2007, Trumpet Magazine (published and edited by Wright's daughter) presented the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to Farrakhan, whom it said "truly epitomized greatness."] Wright is quoted in the magazine offering praise of Farrakhan "as one of the 20th and. 21st century giants of the African American religious experience" and also praised Farrakhan's "integrity and honesty."

sample sermon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

[uponit7771]

24. I was speaking of Wrights sermon not his actions. Also, guilt by association is a last resort....

...type of political ploy IMHO...

My mother says crazy crap all the time, doesn't mean I'm repudiating what she says 3 times a day.

[papau]

96. I did not say these 2 points are valid reasons to not vote for Obama -they aren't

but Obama playing the race card over and over (my opinion which is of course not widely shared on DU) is a reason to vote against him

[tishaLA]

33. That you wrote point one troubles me

Because Sen Obama's is a very progressive church rooted in the Liberation Theology movement that informed much of the anti-fascist movement in Central and South America in the 70s and 80s (until Popoe John Paul II shut the movement down--think Father Romero). Obama's church's progressivism on issues like LGBT rights, women's rights, community involvement, and economic bifurcation are things that I THOUGHT characterized the best of progressivism.

Progressives attack Sen Obama's church at their peril. Many, many African Americans belong to similar churches, especially in urban areas. Is that something we want to do? Because IF we do, and should Sen Clinton win the nomination, it will undermine support for Sen Clinton among urban Blacks, AT LEAST; if Sen Obama wins the nomination, pursuing this line will harm his viability among white voters. Let's leave this particular line of attack to the republicons....and then let's defend the progressive values, if not all the words, that underscore the church's general ethos.

[papau]

92. Black columnist Erik Rush said point 1 - send him an email - as to Wright he's nothing

as to the election, in my opinion.

Where you go to church - or not - is not a criteria for my vote.

But Obama playing the race card to spike the AA vote split above 90% (I know other see "supporters as "controlled" and Obama "responding" to Clinton "campaign" but I see all that as bull as Obama uses whatever he can to bring up race so as to spike that AA vote split) - that action I object to.

I met Malcom X long long ago - and liked him a lot - and admired his courage (as I saw southern white students at Harvard put him down with only 2 police outside the room and his 2 "volunteer guards" in the room) - but Louis Farrakhan is another story - but at this point as Louis is dying it is time to remember Louis Farrakhan for the good he intended to do - and let pass the reasons he made things worse so often.

[tishaLA]

98. I didn't address Farrakhan because I won't waste

key strokes defending him.

But I think you are wrong about the way scrutinizing the Black church in this way could very well lead to disastrous consequences in the fall.

BTW, Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 both received over 90% of the black vote and, unless I'm mistaken, neither is African American.

[Political Heretic]

91. Response:

#1 is a false comparison - whites are not an oppressed minority. If they were, then they would need to band together in this way. Comparing the historically privileged oppressors to the historically oppressed minority and acting like the same rules apply is absurd (and indicative of a place of privilege.)

#2 so what is this exactly.... guilt by association?

I'm still waiting for specific examples of statements.

[papau]

94. one can have a racist view of a majority - and yes the claim is guilt by association - but Wright is

not important and should not be the criteria for anyones vote.

In any case, those two points are the only ones I know of for jumping on Wright.

[Political Heretic]

97. One can, yes. This isn't an example of that.

Sorry.

[Straight Shooter]

86. "... we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye."

Excuse me, Preacher Wright? Many of us are still "batting our eyes" over that. The controversy goes on whether more lives would have been lost, or not, or whether it was good for us to demonstrate military strength in such a manner, as well as many more ethical, moral, spiritual questions that arise from such deeds.

Never batted an eye? FFS.

[Unsane]

2. The whole "Jesus was black" thing is pretty inaccurate

If he existed at all, he was likely semitic.

[uponit7771]

6. My understanding is people use the term "black" loosely when describing Jesus's skin color and his..

...hair etc.

For instance, Obama isn't "black" he's bi-racial but because his hair

But I'll chalk this up anyway as a minor point

[Bullet1987]

10. That's a matter of history, but it's not racist

Let's not forget that there are Christians all over the world who don't neccessarily go by the Western view of Christ.

[Unsane]

12. I didn't say it was racist; I said it was inaccurate (which is what the OP addresses).

[uponit7771]

23. I don't think it was inaccurate in the context of what Wright was saying but it's arguable so I'll..

..give half a point

[NDambi]

35. One things for sure..we know he ain't blond hair and blue-eyed

[ContinentalOp]

75. If mainstream Christianity could pretend for hundreds of years

that Christ was a blond haired surfer dude, I don't see anything wrong with African American churches choosing to see him in their own image.

[Unsane]

77. Fair enough, but I think both views are clearly inaccurate.

[ContinentalOp]

80. So should every white Christian be condemened?

If they attend a church with pictures of blond surfer Jesus on the walls?

[Unsane]

82. That particular comment isn't why this fella should be condemned, FWIW

It's all the other racial, anti-American crap he spews--the way he pits white society against black society--a message in clear contradiction to where Obama supposedly stands (which makes it all the more perplexing why he would associate himself with this).

In any event, I rarely see white pastors expound on the whiteness of Jesus.

[ContinentalOp]

100. Of course they don't expound on it.

It's taken for granted. The idea that he's pitting white society against black society is ridiculous too since white "superiority" is also taken for granted in America. He's not attempting to divide anyone. He's simply highlighting a very real division that has existed in America since its inception.

And anyway, how exactly has Obama associated himself "with this"? Was he at this event? If the pastor talks this way all of the time, maybe that was even the inspiration for Obama to move beyond these divisions and create a message of inclusion.

[uponit7771]

103. What did he say that wasn't true? Talking about racial issues isn't being racist

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

88. Who cares if Jesus was green and from Mars. How is this going to get the Democratic nominee elected

in the fall? That's the question we should be asking ourselves.

[scheming daemons]

3. That's not the point.... the point is that what Wright says is IRRELEVANT!

Wright is Obama's pastor and friend. He is not part of the campaign.



John Kerry's priest was unabashedly pro-life. Does that mean John Kerry is also?


No candidate should be held responsible for the viewpoints of their friends and acquaintences, unless they share those viewpoints.


I have friends who are unabashedly conservative. That does NOT make me ALSO a conservative.



"Guilt by association" is an unfair charge in EVERY case in which it is used. Do *YOU* end every friendship in which the other person does not agree with your viewpoints 100%?


Obama has already said he doesn't agree with Rev. Wright when it comes to Farrakhan. Does that mean he has to END HIS FRIENDSHIP with him as well?


Think, people.

[sniffa]

4. Of course it matters

to delusional peope.

[uponit7771]

14. As a black man I think what he said was relevant, Clinton wasn't distancing herself

[uponit7771]

15. Sorry, I should have read all of your post. Putting what he said in context you're right ....

[leftynyc]

31. Except now we wont be

able to use Hagee against John McCain. I was hoping to be able to hang him around McCain's neck.

[MethuenProgressive]

38. "what Wright says is IRRELEVANT!"

"Wright is Obama's pastor and friend."

Pastor is from the Latin word for shepherd.
The shepherd is not "IRRELEVANT!" to the sheep.

[uponit7771]

61. He's no longer Obamas paster, he retired months ago...but o well....

[scheming daemons]

71. I guess that meant that John Kerry is REALLY pro-life, since his pastor is...

...

:eyes:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uponit7771]

16. Not a freeper, have to start somewhere in regards to post and you didn't answer the question

[Window]

9. He cracks me the hell up.

[superduperfarleft]

11. Not a thing.

And it's pretty typical of privileged white liberals to claim to support the struggles of people of color, but the minute a person of color tries to control the conversation or at least have the conversation on their own terms, said privileged white liberals go absolutely apeshit. Can't say I'm surprised by this reaction.

[canuk1]

18. then why is it the lead story on all the networks

Every on line network news site is running with this. No doubt the Clintons were pushing this last night. They do not want this issue to go away. She has lost the black vote and needs to drive up the white vote. This is not good for Obama. Fair or not, he will have to deal with this big time.

[uponit7771]

22. Yeah but it should be pretty easy for Obama to address, they're taking people who "knows" in his ...

...and making issues out of what THEY say.

[Rex_Goodheart]

19. This is not true

<b>"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people."</b>

It's racist, it's pandering, and it seeks to legitimize criminal behavior.

[blogslut]

20. How is it racist?

How does it legitimize criminal behavior? In your view.

[uponit7771]

21. How is that "racist"!?!? Do you know what the word means?!?!?!

[Rex_Goodheart]

25. It's racist because it's contrived excuse-making

for criminal behavior, based specifically on race.

No, this guy is not a racist, no, uh uh, no way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

Obama needs to distance himself from that jackass. Pronto.

[uponit7771]

26. There was NO mention of race in what you posted...nt

[Rex_Goodheart]

27. Wright was talking about how black people are treated in this country

Watch the linked YouTube video. It's all about race.

Clinton shouldn't have to apologize for being white. But that's the way Wright wants it.

[uponit7771]

28. But what did he say that wasn't TRUE!?!? Again, TALKING about race isn't being racist or making....

...racist statements

[Rex_Goodheart]

29. I've already answered that question.

[havocmom]

41. No, you haven't, but do show us your stripes by continuing to not answer

You made claims that are not backed up. We are gonna persist in wanting them backed up... or retracted.

[Rex_Goodheart]

47. Yes, I did

I posted a Wright statement that is decidedly untrue.

[uponit7771]

48. You said it was an excuse for behavior NOT that it wasn't true. It can be both you know?

[Rex_Goodheart]

51. The title of my post was quite explicit

"This is not true"

[havocmom]

66. You posted a statement. You failed to disprove anything

[havocmom]

39. Talking about race and how races are treated IS NOT racist

Using race as a reason to treat poorly IS racist. As is supporting the propaganda that speaking truth to power is criminal, racist, or wrong.

Speaking truth about racism is NOT racism.

And nobody asked Clinton to apologize for being white. THAT is racist propaganda crap. If not, then please be so honest as to prove to us all that YOU know what Wright wants!

[Rex_Goodheart]

43. There is no truth

in that our government gives drugs to black people for the purpose of imprisoning them.

There is no truth in that God should damn America.

The jackass reverend is not merely talking about race. Watch the linked YouTube video. Wright supports Obama precisely because he's black and, yes, that IS racist.

[havocmom]

Turn your radio up higher.

We wouldn't want you to hear anything but Rush's talking points.

Go back and look at the crime stats, including the Iran Contra Gang and bush 41 for starters

[ContinentalOp]

78. "our government gives drugs to black people for the purpose of imprisoning them."

You don't remember the CIA/crack story that broke in 1996?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/october96/crack_contra_11-1.html

Here's a quote from John Kerry,
"There is no question in my mind that people affiliated with, or on the payroll of the CIA were involved in drug trafficking while involved in support of the Contras, but it is also important to note that we never found any evidence to suggest that these traffickers ever targeted any one geographic area or population group."

Which is a typical bit of plausible denial but if you look at where all of the crack was going it's a little disingenuous. If you look at what crack did to the black community in the 80s and 90s, and you look at who is primarily imprisoned for crack possession, I think you can forgive African Americans for feeling like they were specifically targeted by the CIA.

Personally I think it's true. Maybe it will never be proven as a "fact" thanks to our government's secrecy but anyone can connect the dots.

[2rth2pwr]

70. "Talking about race and how races are treated IS NOT racist"

Isn't that what Ferraro was doing?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

89. Obviously not . . . consulting dictionary now . . Nope, doesn't fit.

[Occam Bandage]

30. Well, and that is one thing that isn't true, unless you have enough tinfoil to believe

that the government supplies illegal drugs to black people.

[uponit7771]

50. The CIA DID traffic drugs... and he NEVER said they "gave" them to blacks...

...I see some stretching here on this subject

[Occam Bandage]

72. "The government gives them the drugs"

[Hippo_Tron]

55. CIA drug running scandal is proof that they have

And no I don't believe that there is substantial evidence that the government is responsible for putting crack on the streets. And I certainly don't believe Reagan was in any way involved. He would've been too senile to notice it was going on.

[havocmom]

37. And how is it not true?

CIA did traffic in drugs. How many other agencies? It is a really easy way to get operating money off the books and away from prying eyes of governmental bodies charged with oversight. There was a lot of crack introduced into poor black neighborhoods during the bush I administration. Lots of young people put into prisons and FOR PROFIT prisons.

Bigger prisons (and PRIVATE corporation owned prisons ) did get built.

Three strikes law? Yep! Take some casual (and pretty passive, non-violent) offenders and lock them up for a longer time than their 'crimes' actually deserve. There are reasons this was done. Look tough on crime AND get profit for holding prisoners who really aren't much trouble.

Oh, by the way, corporations use prison populations for very cheap labor. They get the added perks of not having to learn any foreign languages or travel to far away factories, and they can slap a "MADE IN USA" label on products so the rest of us are more likely to buy them, thinking we are supporting jobs for our neighbors.

And has the US killed innocents? Well, what say you?

It is not racist. It is not pandering and it does not seek to legitimize criminal behavior. It most certainly calls powerful structures ON criminal behavior.

[Zynx]

52. The government doesn't have use sing "God Bless America".

The only thing the government mandates at all, and it isn't even really mandatory, is the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Hippo_Tron]

53. There's nothing untrue about those statements and certainly nothing racist about them

Read up on the CIA drug running scandal. The drug war has imprisoned way too many people for victim-less crimes.

[JDPriestly]

32. Perception, not truth is the issue.

Obama's problem here is that his pastor views the world from an African-American point of view that lot of white people have never heard and are not ready to hear. Kerry's priest didn't say anything about abortion that non-Catholics, pro-choice voters hadn't heard. There was no unfamiliarity, no shock value, not even any surprise that Kerry's priest was anti-abortion. And Kerry made it very clear that he does not agree with the Catholic Church or his priest on abortion.

Most white Americans will be horrified when they hear about the statements that Obama's pastor made. Those statements may be very familiar to African-Americans, and many African-Americans may agree with them, but white Americans are not going to like them at all. There is no way around this. Obama has a lot of explaining to do. Many white Americans including good Democrats will refuse to vote for Obama because of these statements which are offensive to many middle class white Americans -- many, many middle class white Americans.

You may hiss and boo all you want about how racist that reaction is, but it is what it is. You won't change racism by throwing rotten eggs at it. Many white people will go to the polls and choose McCain for president because of the words of Obama's preacher. That's politics.

John Edwards was the only electable candidate we had/have, and all you emotional Hillary and Obama supporters had just better realize that fact. Neither Obama nor Hillary can be elected. They never could have been. That's reality. Get used to it because that's all you are going to find on this earth.

We Democrats have a choice: grow up, face reality and get with the program or end up with four, probably eight more years of Republican rule and the total destruction of our country. It's Edwards or bust. It's still Edwards or bust, and the sooner Democrats realize that, the better.

[Rex_Goodheart]

34. Yes, Obama has a lot of explaining to do

But, no, it's not racist of me to be offended by the "Reverend" Wright's racism.

Obama needs to specifically condemn that jackass.

[scheming daemons]

73. Obama did condemn what he said.........

And I challenge you to condemn every statement that every acquaintence of yours has ever uttered that you disagree with.


Sheesh...

[Umbram]

36. So, I suppose in order to "grow up fast" we should scrap Obama and Hillary and... ? (nt)

[JDPriestly]

81. And draft John Edwards. He will focus on Democratic values. He can win.

He is the only candidate who will change the fundamental way our system works and return us to a representative democracy that is not dominated by corporate interests alone.

[Unsane]

40. It shocks me that Obama is dumb enough to associate himself with such a bombthrower

good lord

[havocmom]

44. OK, THAT just about crosses over into libel

bombthrower? Using that phrase, even as metaphor, in this situation is more racist fear mongering crap like we get from Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

Obviously, you took a wrong turn on the internets when you wound up here

[Rex_Goodheart]

46. Get real.

[havocmom]

54. Honk! Wrong answer. "Get real" is not a legitimate defense

nor is it even in the realm of debate.

Thank you for playing. Pick up your parting gifts.

[Unsane]

49. wtf lol

are you serious?

[havocmom]

56. Are you?

[Unsane]

63. Yep.

Are you going to defend the things this person said? Unless Obama gets out in front of this quickly, he is finished.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Not just Wright

Obama could not get Wright to bash gays, so he outsourced it to Republican operatives like Caldwell and McClurkin. "Gay people are trying to kill our children." Obama says that quote is about how Donnie loves gays and wants to change the 'unhappy ones'.
When a man digs a pit of bigotry to enrich himself with votes, using my house as the bait, you won't find me explaining the Euorcentricity of the average white church and defending that man's church on other issues around prejudice. I could, but I won't.
Frankly, Obama should be saying he disagrees with racists but will keep listenting to them, because they are good decent moral people. That is what he said about the bigots who oppress my familiy. Good people, deserving of being heard. Why does he not feel the same way about Ferraro? Answer, because Obama himself thinks being bigoted against gays is holy. But being bigoted against him is of course as wrong as orininal sin.
No bigots are good people. None of them. Obama likes some of them, so when others attack him, he is only getting back what he put out. Not upsetting to me to see justice. Karma. The return of bread cast upon the waters of homophobia. I say ha, in fact. Hoist on your own as they say.
Bigots calling bigots bigoted. That is the Democratic Party 2008. Well done, all of you, just so well done.

[uponit7771]

68. What did Wright say that was racist??!?!?

[JDPriestly]

83. It isn't that Wright said something racist, it's that he said things

in a way that white Americans have not heard. It is unfamiliar to white Americans. We accept ideas we have heard and ideas for which there is a sort of foundation in our brains. There is no foundation either based on the experience of white Americans or on what they have heard and generally hear in their culture.

Here is an example of what I am talking about: If you had a time machine and traveled back and tried to explain to George Washington that you post your opinions on the internet, he would think you were crazy. He would reject the idea, the very possibility of e-mails. We do not accept ideas that we just can't place in our neural paths anywhere. White people will reject Wright's statements and find him to be the racist and in the wrong and hateful. It's the way it is. My opinion of what he says is irrelevant. It's just the perception on the part of white voters of what he says. Obama has to deal with this. It's going to be very difficult for him to do. It probably will prevent him from being elected.

My white mother who attended a one-room school in rural America and went to high school while her family eked out a living in the depression is very annoyed by Michelle Obama's poor little me, who would ever have thought a black girl like me could go to Harvard? It isn't just black people who have had to struggle against all kinds of stereotypes, hatred and barriers. My mother is a part of a generation of women who faced terrible limitations on their economic and career expectations.

We are all in this struggle to have a better life. Racism exists, but it is not the only barrier to progress. That is why I like Edwards so much and cannot get into the other candidates. Edwards appreciates the struggles of all Americans. He sees the big picture when it comes to what the country needs. Neither Obama nor Hillary seems to get beyond their own self- and group-interests.

[ecstatic]

42. Well I guess we'll never have a black president then

"Those statements may be very familiar to African-Americans, and many African-Americans may agree with them, but white Americans are not going to like them at all. There is no way around this."

[Rex_Goodheart]

45. We can have one that disassociates himself from

"God damn America."

I'm hoping Obama does just that... SOON.

[uponit7771]

59. My grandmother says stupid stuff all of the time, I admire her but does that mean I should repudiate

...everything she says on an hourly basis?!!?!?

Again, this seems to be stretching to me.

I can see what you're saying about "God Damn America" though but I look at the person who says it more than the people who are associated with them unless their association is direct.

I just don't see a retired former pastor of Obama's being that close to him...

[Unsane]

67. Your grandmother isn't your "spiritual adviser"

We can choose our pastors; we can't choose our relatives.

[uponit7771]

69. yes she is!! She also says great things that are spiritually related also. I'm not going to....

...disassociate from everyone who says something stupid!!

[havocmom]

60. We don't have a chance of fixing what needs to be fixed if we don't face what is broken

Are you responsible for every utterance, honest though unpopular of every one of your friends and acquaintances?

Well?

Of course not! We do not get to control all those we know. Those who try are generally called right wingers. And we are not them, are we?

[ecstatic]

76. Obama is not associated with Rev. Wright. They're both black,

and Obama was once a member, if that's what you're getting at. That's why I said we might as well accept that there will never be a black president because every black person is held responsible for another black person's actions in white america.

[JDPriestly]

84. No, African-American candidates need to reach out to educate

white people. There are so many African-Americans on the networks and in the news. They need to speak out if they share Wright's views. They need to explain his views if they find them acceptable. I suspect that the real problem is that Wright represents the views of only a small minority of African-Americans.

[ecstatic]

85. I don't agree. Howard Dean had it right: He said it takes whites to

educate whites about racism.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

58. OK, what is a African American point of view supposed to be?

you can't just label.

[Zynx]

57. No one "deserved" 9/11.

That is total B.S. Also, his comparison of 9/11 to Hiroshima and Nagasaki is bogus. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were judgement calls made to end the war with the least loss of life on our side, and by extension Japan as well. 9/11 actually comes more into line with Pearl Harbor.

[uponit7771]

64. That is NOT what he said in that sermon!! Also, the CIA agrees with Wright that we're expericing

..."blowback" because of our policies.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

65. Clinton and McCain ofcourse want to use this against Obama

you could quote all that Obama's teachers in elementary and secondary school said and their opinions - it isn't worth a dime to the campaign.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

74. Jesus wasn't African. Aside from that, it seems mostly opinion rather than factual claim/

[RememberWellstone]

79. Que? Who?

I am lost.:shrug:

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

87. Please don't try to muddy the water by bringing the truth into the conversation. Thank you.

[Amaya]

93. Gotta agree with this one

On the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

and this :

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye "

and this one:

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost"

The truth is hard to handle for Americans, though- Americans just want to hear how great they are- and how they are the hero's of the world. Americans, also think the world wants to be like them- ( got news for you, they don't)
Being married to someone who isn't from the states has opened my little American vision.
Americans are seen as superficial hypocrites.


( waiting for incoming :nuke:)

[uponit7771]

95. The CIA agrees with you and Wright, they call it "blowback" but wrorte first....

...about it in the late 70s.

Ron Paul mentions it a lot...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

99. No incoming from me --

I hear what the pastor is saying, understand it, and agree with much of it, despite saddled with being "white". :D

I am only 48, but I am old enough to remember the marches, the dogs, the hoses, the murders, the arrests -- this is the recent and continuing history of the black man and woman in American.

And anyone who doesn't understand that our foreign policy is directly responsible for much of what has happened to us has some serious blinders on.

The pastor tells a lot of truth, though he says it in more forceful and blunt terms than I use.

[txaslftist]

101. WHO FLIPPIN' CARES?

Revrun Wright isn't running for office, is he?

Hagee endorsed McCain. Does that mean McCain believes Armageddon is coming because we insufficiently support Israel? Does it mean McCain talks in tongues?

[uponit7771]

102. I agree, I just want to know what the issue was and no one has come even close to answering...

...the question so to me this thread has proved to be somewhat of a reality check.