Obama's preacher and Malcolm X

[theboss]

Obviously, there is a world of difference Jeremiah Wright and Malcolm X - theology being the difference. And from what I can tell, he is not a black separatist.

However, any time I start hearing black nationalism creep through a speech or sermon, I think of Malcolm.

So, in general, my question is, "What do Dems think of Malcolm X and his legacy?"

Do we see value in his messages of self-sufficiency, self-respect, and self-control? Do we view him as a racist? A reformed racist?

In general, do we find black nationalism alarming? Empowering? Necessary? Evil? Necessary evil?

Had he not been murdered, Macolm would be 82 so its possible that he could have been a political force throughout the 80s, 90s, and even today. Would Democrats have moved towards him?

(Note: If you only know him from the Spike Lee movie, you may want to disqualify yourself from the conversation).

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. I think highly of Malcom X, but any association with the Nation of Islam is

a strong negative to me. Elijah Muhammad believed that white people were created by a mad scientist in a flying saucer, so I have never been impressed with people seeing him as a profound guy. (I wouldn't be too impressed by a white man saying black people were created by a mad scientist...)

Black nationalism was, however, a valuable part of the whole range of viewpoints that add up to a sophisticated whole.

There are a a lot of political thinkers I respect even though I would not want their ideas implemented. Without Marx or doctrinaire anarchists, for instance, there would be whole swathes of possibilities unexamined.

I feel the same way about the French Revolution. It was a horrible thing, yet in many ways the greatest event in human history.

[theboss]

2. The Mad Professor aspect of NOI is an embarrassment

Though in some ways, it's no crazier than any other "creation" story. And I've always felt that Elijah Muhammad was 50 percent con man.

But I do think you can pull a lot of things of value out of NOI doctrine...and a lot of the value comes from Malcolm's preachings. And really his evolution is what matters ultimately. If Malcolm had died in 1963 immediately after the "Chickens coming home to roost" speech, I think he could be more easily dismissed as a whacho radical. His transformation after his expulsion is really what gives his story its ultimate meaning.

And I think we can see some reflections of that in Obama's theology. I think his growth away from Wright is far more interesting than anything Wright says in and of itself.

[george_maniakes]

4. I agree that malcoms continuing transformation is what makes his...

story so powerful. From being treated like dirt, to his understandable reaction to that, and then his ability to try and rise above blind hate. Using rational thought for his arguements. Certainly, i think his message would be more popular in the states if he went to a christian nut for salvation rather than a mulsim nut.

[theboss]

8. Well, his father went to a Christian nut in Marcus Garvey and was killed for it

I think he viewed Christianity as the enemy his whole life. Islam was so foreign that it came with no baggage.

Islam today carries far more baggage in the US than it did in the 40s and 50s. It was simply ignored here at that time.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. Agreed. I have no use for any religious mythology

But recently-coined mythologies like NOI, Scientology or even Mormonism are a little crazier because they don't offer the out that people are embracing a long mythological tradition, rather than the mythology itself.

That said, I certainly do not hold NOI in lower regard than any sect that takes the bible literally. Crazy is crazy.

I actually cut NOI more slack, but I'm not necessarily proud of that. As a white man, I have to recognize that there may be some subtle condescension in my making a special case for NOI. (I know I would go nuts about any equivalent white organization.)

[Zynx]

3. Anyone who reforms has my respect. I do not respect his earlier works.

I am always a fan of MLK and Ghandi.

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. Malcolm moved away from black nationalism, though.

As he moved away from the Nation of Islam and to orthodox Islam (if you've read his autobiography you'll remember him speaking of his pilgrimage to Mecca, and the 'scales from the eyes' moment of 'blonde, blue-eyed white men who called me "brother"'). So it's not really a fair question.

[george_maniakes]

6. I wonder how muslim countries view malcolm. n/t

[theboss]

7. He was still a separatist after his conversion to orthodoxy

But he did accept that within Islam, all races could be seen as equal.

[ecstatic]

10. Hillary's preacher and the KKK

:shrug: What? I'm sure there's a tie in somewhere?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. Excellent contribution to a civilized, non-inflamatory discussion

[ecstatic]

12. If you think linking Obama to Malcolm X is relevant... I suppose so

But I'm just demonstrating how easy it is to make connections where none exist.

[theboss]

14. I'm not linking them...did you read my post?

I'm an Obama supporter.

I'm asking if the people who suddenly are so concerned with Obama's church feel the same towards Malcolm X?

Probably not. Because Malcolm X is an icon of the 60s....and once you become an icon of the 60s on DU, you are deified.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Well, there is her senate mentor.

:hide:

[theboss]

15. White's Disease

You got a bad habit. Your hooked and don't know it. You got what's known as "White's Disease". You think you can't get along without the white man. You think you can't get some clothes without the white man. You think you can't get a house without the white man. You think you can't even get a job without the white man. Your worse than the man who thinks he can't get along without heroin. Your worse than the man who thinks he can't get along without morphine. Your worse than the junkie, you're in worse shape than the junkie because, the junkie only has a little monkey on his back and your running around with a big white ape named Uncle Sam on your back.