"Sit down and shut up!"

[EffieBlack]

On Morning Joe this morning, Joe Scarborough and Craig Crawford wrang their hands and moaned that Barack Obama and black Democrats are causing all kinds of problems because they had the NOIVE to call Geraldine Ferraro on her despicable comments. Every now and then, they let John Ridley, an African American who disagred with them, get a word in edgewise, but this was really all about Joe and Craig lecturing black folk about how we should behave.

Nothing like listening to two white men - one of whom is clearly a Republican, don't know about the other one - bemoan the fact that Obama and blacks are splitting the Democratic party by having the TEMERITY to object to racist comments by another Democrat (and the failure of Hillary Clinton to meaningfully challenge them) which may result in - HORRORS! - white women being so upset with the Democrats that they might vote Republican in the fall. After all, they said, one of the reasons Obama is winning is that "he doesn't make white people feel guilty."

Excuse me?

I am sick and tired of being told to sit down and shut up so that I don't upset white people. Sit down and shut up no matter what people say or do because white people might be offended if I speak up. Sit down and shut up because, after all, we have got to fall all over ourselves keeping white people - in this case, white women - happy, content and in our corner.


This is the same crap we heard early in this campaign - "America's not ready for a black president, Obama can't win, so he'd better not run." Sit down and shut up so we can win this election. Of course, you can come out of your corner and vote for us when the time comes - we'll send a bus to get you to the polls. But otherwise, just sit down and shut up and let us run this operation.

Here's news for Joe and Chris and anyone else who makes these stupid, racist claims.

We, too, are Democrats. Just as much as white people are. We have every right to speak up when, how and for whatever reason we feel like it. And black women are women, too. So when you rattle on about "women this" and "women that" you're talking about US, too, not just the white women you usually seem to have in mind when you refer to "women." This isn't about women v. men. This is about an outrageously bigoted comment made by a person who should know better. And she got called on it.

So, do not tell me to sit down and shut up for the good of the party. One of the more serious problems with this party is our dirty little secret that there's as much bigotry right here within the Democratic ranks as there is anywhere else in the country. We are doing this party and this country a service by calling it out. Barack Obama and black Democrats did not invent racism, we are not perpetuating it. It exists, it is real and it is becoming more and more obvious. Deal with it.

But don't you EVER tell me to sit down and shut up because by speaking up I might upset some white women. If they can't handle an honest discussion about race, if they feel oh-so-offended because a white woman got caught in her true bigoted glory, if they think that white women have every right to talk about issues of concern to them but black people - including black women - have no right to publicly address ours, then I suggest that, instead of telling black people to sit down and shut up, you tell the white women whose feelings you're so concerned about that they have a choice: 1) get over themselves, stay in this party with me and mine and plenty of others who don't agree with them on every issue, and figure out how to get along with everyone else in this party; 2) sit it out; 3) can go vote for McCain and see how that works out for them. That's the choice you seem to want to give us black folk. Try directing it at someone else for a change.

But sitting around sipping coffee on morning television, lecturing black folks about how we're messing it up for everyone else because we refuse to tolerate racist backhanding only helps to demonstrate the racial entitlements, anger, and fear that I have described among a certain element of white folks who see the world as they know it changing before their very eyes and don't know what do to about it.

We're not sitting down and shutting up. You'll get used to it.

[MadBadger]

1. Quick Edit: It's Craig Crawford.

[EffieBlack]

3. Thanks - corrected

[Freida5]

2. So you are saying, Joe Scarborough and Chris Crawford are racist too?? okay

[EffieBlack]

6. I didn't say they were racist

But that is an oh-so-convenient red herring comeback from anyone who doesn't want to discuss the real issue.

"Stop calling me a racist!" "How dare you call him/her/them a racist!" is often a very effective way to shut down the discussion.

Only, it doesn't work on me because I'm too smart to fall into that trap.

Nice try, but you'd better use something a little more effective if you want to challenge me.

[MadBadger]

9. Thats exactly what Ferraro did. I didnt hear anybody specifically calling her a racist

especially anybody in the Obama campaign. But there she went complaining it anyway. she also said she had gotten threatening emails, but I dont believe her.

[EffieBlack]

11. Exactly

What's funny about this ploy is that the people who use it seem to believe that it's infinitely worse to be called a racist than to be called an unqualified token who is lucky to be black otherwise he wouldn't be where he is today.

They say whatever they want to about black folk and, no matter how flat-out wrong or how patently offensive, insist they have a right to say it because they're "just talking straight," but if someone challenges them on it, they jump up and down screaming and crying about how they're being called a "racist!"

Amazing.

[theboss]

34. I think Ferraro may be a racist

I don't think she's Bull Conner.

But she clearly has a mindset that white Democratic "leaders" know better and that black voters should follow their marching orders.

[ampad]

48. Pretty simple argument for the challenged thinkers on this board

"So now your calling so and so racist" So now if I say this or that I am a racist" I see quite a bit of that on this board. So quick to challenge a person and behave as if they are truly offended.

Thank you Effie once again you words ring true. It was your post from yesterday that prompted me to stop lurking and respond. I thank you, thank you, thank you. Some white Democrats had no problem with us voting as long as we voted the way they wanted. Some who feel entitled to their candidate are getting all up in a tizzy because things are not going thier way. I feel it is an entitlement issue which some really need to get over. Now that things are coming to a head some of them are starting to let their real colors show.

This is how they felt all along Effie. I'm not surprised to hear Republicans or Conservatives behave this way but when I see people who call themselves Liberals or Progressives behave this way it makes my heart sink. I'm not surprised just disappointed. Once again thanks for a terrific post.

[cooolandrew]

4. Turn off MSM they hate Americans, except Olberman. Just liberl radio for truth...

The future is nova m radio and headonradio.com

[irish.lambchop]

5. And he's not alone in doing that -

on Dan Abram's show last night, idiot buchanan told a panel member (African American woman) to "shut up" - thankfully, Ms. Maddow stepped in and shut buchanan up because Dan obviously had no clue and/or had lost control.

[MadBadger]

7. Well Buchannan is a racist piece of shit.

C'mon, I dare somebody to defend Patty against what I said.

[EffieBlack]

8. Of course he is

And he's given a platform day after day, night after night to spew this crap.

[ampad]

50. Wait a little bit longer

I'm sure if you wait someone will come and defend him. I have seen many a pos be defended on this board lately.

[Window]

22. I heard that. I wished I could have reached through the screen and slapped

the shit our of him.

[NDambi]

37. Yes..that really pissed me off..he told Kelli Goff to shut up...wtf I wanted to kick his ass

[Hepburn]

38. That truly was disgusting....

...I could not believe anyone could act like that. Rachel was great!

[cooolandrew]

10. Singling out white women is unwise we ar trying to gain votes. Addressing racism fine though.

If youcould editthe white women part that would help Obmamore but yeah anyone being racist no worries say yor piece. arack is ahlf white remember.

[EffieBlack]

13. Thanks for the editing tips - but I wrote exactly what I meant to say

I'm not trying to help Obama. I'm speaking the truth.

And, by the way, this argument IS about white women, since Crawford and Scarborough - and the others who are making the same argument - are not talking about black women. They are talking about white women.

[Connie_Corleone]

16. The discussion on TV IS about white women.

They don't say "white" women. But that's what they mean.

[Hepburn]

41. Boy, is that a telling remark....and a good observation

I, too, have noticed that when there is no racially decriptive adjective, that automatically it is about white people. Women = white women without a single misunderstanding and no need to use the word white.

Sad, IMO.

Women = ALL women...no matter what.

[BeyondGeography]

12. That was brutal; I turned it off

Scarborough still roots for the Republicans and he's hoping this Ferraro flap will blow up the Democratic Party. It won't, because most of us understand it's just another example of bad behavior from the Clinton campaign, plus Obama is masterful at getting things back on point.

Sometimes there's nothing else to be done but turn the channel and wait for the story line to change. The problem with the phase we're in now is there's no election for six weeks, so the media, with the Clinton campaign's help, is going to do its best to keep things stupid. Too bad the Democratic Party (instead of getting behind the frontrunner with superdelegates) will apparently do nothing more than wring its hands in response.

[EffieBlack]

15. It was interesting that they insisted that Obama needs to rachet this back

I appreciated John Ridley saying that this is not Obama's problem, but a problem with the Democratic Party and that Howard Dean needs to do something about it, not Obama.

[Connie_Corleone]

14. You said exactly what I was feeling this morning.

I heard Joe on TV talking about the Obama campaign will lose the women vote (read white women) because they're saying Ferraro is racist. First of all, the Obama campaign never called her racist. She made that assumption out of thin air. And second, anyone who criticizes Hillary is called sexist by the mostly older white women voters who support her. They're so hell bent on having a female president that they are upset that some "upstart" black man who came out of nowhere is beating her. They would rather destroy the Democratic Party than see someone other than Hillary become president.

I'm sick of it.

[MadBadger]

17. They were right about one thing, this whole Ferraro things is about Gender

Its obvious based on that interview with John Gibson where she criticizes Chris Dodd for endorsing Obama, writing it off as the boys supporting the boys. This to me sounds like a women bitter that people are not supporting her candidate. This reminds me of the head of the NY chapter of NOW criticizing Teddy Kennedy. I think thats what she is really feeling.

[EffieBlack]

18. Bingo

Yet they don't seem the least bit concerned about the black vote - and, in fact, marginalize it at every opportunity. That's what I mean about telling black folks to "sit down and shut up."

Why not tell the white women they are so concerned about to get over THEMSELVES and warn them that their behavior and threats to leave the party is offending black voters (including black women)? Why not tell THEM that THEY are in danger of splitting the party?

Hmmm.

[suziedemocrat]

19. ..

..

[EffieBlack]

21. Who called anyone a racist?

That's a red herring and is not helpful to this discussion.

No one told you to sit down and shut up so you don't upset black people. Geraldine Ferraro was called on her bigoted comments, as well she should have been. Unfortunately, the reaction by some has been to attack those of us who called her on them, accusing us of: 1)calling people racist; 2) splitting the Democratic Party.

[formercia]

20. Geraldine Ferraro is dumber than a bag of rocks.

She and her right-wing reactionary coterie don't have a clue that the World has changed for good and any idea they might have of restoring the monarchies and the Papal States are history.

That World died at Sarajevo in 1914.


The United States was the first to tell the royals to go pound sand. Get over it.

[BumRushDaShow]

23. Sit down and shut up! Wait your turn...

We have been hearing that crap for 300 years while helping to build this fucking country to be the greatest in the world - all without pay and under the threat of mutilation or death. I was just moderately surprised that it took this long to ratchet up to this level.

And the irony is that when you have one who manages to appeal, not to the gutter, but to the highest instincts and passions and hopes and dreams of humanity, that suddenly becomes a threat to the power structure and it's time to get to the back of the bus where you belong.

Not this time.

[Usrename]

27. There you go, that't the real offense here.

We can't have someone "who manages to appeal, not to the gutter, but to the highest instincts and passions and hopes and dreams of humanity" because that truely is the greatest threat to the status quo.

Bravo!

The world is watching!

[ProgressiveEconomist]

24. Compare Obama with, say, Al Sharpton. Obama himself, in his book 'Audacity

of Hope', says that a secret of his success is his learning early that "white people tend to just LOVE a Black man who does not seem angry".

Right-wing psychologist Shelby Steele turned this Obama insight into an entire book (see http://www.amazon.de/Bound-Excited-about-Obama-Press/dp/1416559175 ) that contrasts what he calls "challengers" (for example, Sharpton) with "bargainers" (for example, Obama).

Challengers are "militants" who let whites know they assume racism is in play unless shown otherwise. He points out that when whites get in racial trouble (like the MSNBC morning show host whom Scarborough replaced), they often go to Sharpton because Sharpton can provide racial absolution or racial penance as well as damnation as an irretievable racist.

"Bargainers" let whites know they won't cry "racism" unless they see clearly irrefutable evidence of individual prejudice or individual acts of discrimination. They are the kinds of African-Americans who make whites feel more comfortable. I agree with Steele that Obama and Oprah belong to the rare group of brilliant African-American racial tightrope-walkers who demonstrate to whites they are "bargainers" while simultaneously convincing Blacks they are not "sell-outs".

I missed "Morning Joe" today, but IMO THIS is what Crawford and Scarborough most likely were talking about.

[krkaufman]

59. Interesting. Your comment provides labels for what the strategy appears to be.

I'd been saying that the Clinton strategy is to re-brand Obama as "the black candidate," but your post provides more specific language. The goal is to shift the perception of Obama from a "bargainer" to a "challenger" -- and hope that doing so implodes his support and compels the superdelegates to hand the nomination to HC.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

62. YES! IMO, what HRC&Co want most is a "scary, angry Black man" as an opponent

Ideally, they's like him to lose his "cool" and snarl on camera. But they'll settle for tarring him with McCarthyite association with Jeremiah Wright, Minister Farrakhan, Jesse Jackson, etc.

Did you notice that in HRC's "apology" for Ferraro, she mentioned Jesse Jackson and Barack Obama in the same "money-shot" sound-byte?

[krkaufman]

65. "Guilt" by association. Yes, another part of their tactics ...

... to fill-in the grout where the Ferraro/Rendel full-frontal assault doesn't cover.

And, no, I missed the Jackson reference in her "apology." (I acknowledge your qualifying the statement as an "apology," given there was no actual apology.) I'll have to go back and check it out again. Thanks.

[burythehatchet]

25. I admire anyone who can listen to Craig Crawford whiney ass voice for more than

30 seconds.

[NDambi]

39. Ha Ha..his voice does SUCK!!!

[Saturday]

26. "Barack Obama and black Democrats did not invent racism, we are not perpetuating it."

You perpetrate it when 90% of Blacks vote for Obama. Is that because he is the best candidate or because he is Black? You perpetrate it when Michelle Obama says (I paraphrase) "Blacks will come around". Racism is racism no matter which way it faces.

[EffieBlack]

28. Until this year 99% of white voters have voted for white candidates

Is that "racism?"

And black voters have always voted for white candidates - while white voters always have voted against black candidates.

This is the first year that we've seen black voters voting for a black candidate in these numbers - numbers that STILL don't approach the percentages of white voters who consistently vote AGAINST black candidates and for white candidates.

So, according to your standards, white voters have been racist for years and black voters still have a ways to go to catch up to white people's racist voting patterns.

Is that your point? Or are you just conveniently isolating the voting patterns of one demographic in one race to make a point that would be completely obviated if you pulled back and honestly looked at ALL of the facts?

[Saturday]

31. White candidates voted for White candidates

because there weren't any Black candidates. It is clear with the many Black Mayors, legislators that Whites will and do vote for Blacks. In the reverse, Blacks are turning out for Obama in high percentages. Why? Because he is the best candidate or because he is Black? Michelle Obama answered that question for us.

[EffieBlack]

32. There WERE black candidates. White voters didn't vote for them

As I noted in another thread:

In 2004, white Democratic votes were split between Kucinich, Dean, Kerry, Edwards, and Sharpton as follows:

Kerry 64%
Edwards 21%
Dean 5%
Kucinich 5%
Sharpton 1%

On the other hand, in the same year, black Democratic votes were split this way:

Kerry 65%
Edwards 15%
Dean 5%
Kucinich 3%
Sharpton 5%


In other words, 99% of white voters voted for white candidates and against the black candidate, who got less than 20% of the vote of the lowest polling white candidate. On the other hand, 94% of black voters voted for white candidates and against the black candidate.

If the fact that 80-90% of black voters are voting for Obama this time around is somehow proof of black racism, wasn't it racist for 99% of white voters to vote for white candidates over the black candidate in the past? And if black voters have consistently supported white candidates over black candidates in the past, what proof do you have that black support for Obama is based on his race and is therefore, racist? What changed between 2004 and now that has suddenly turned black voters into a pack of racists, something we clearly weren't four years ago?

Or could it be that, unlike white voters, black voters have consistently voted for whomever they thought would be the best representative, regardless of race, notwithstanding the consistent attempts to view everything we say, do and think through a prism of race - something that is never done to white voters?

[Saturday]

43. I'm sorry but using Sharpton as your example doesn't hold water.

Blacks, along with Whites knew Sharpton wasn't a viable candidate. That's why he didn't get the votes. It had nothing to do with his race. That's a poor example. I use a better example of Black Mayors and legislators who have won when they were viable against a White candidate to prove my point.

[BumRushDaShow]

57. What about candidates like Harold Ford or Harvey Gantt

who were very viable candidates?? Gantt was as a very viable Democratic candidate, had experience in the Charlotte, NC city council and as Charlotte mayor and was running against the disgusting Jesse Helms? Even Harold Ford (who I don't necessarily agree with or support) had plenty of experience as a congressman.... Why has it been (although I do appreciate their bravery) that whites could never or would rarely go above the 30% number (as their range willing to vote for a black candidate) where blacks will consistently vote 70 - 90% for a white candidate? In fact, in a number of cases, the black candidate only manages to win because there are 2 or more white candidates running at the same time who split the white vote? This is what happened with Deval Patrick in Massachusetts.

Doug Wilder was a rare one who managed to win an extremely tight race in VA with ~40% of the white vote.

It wasn't until this year when Obama blew through states with < 1% black population like Utah, Idaho, North Dakota, Wyoming, etc., and managed to pull 60% or even higher of the white vote when running against a white candidate.

[EffieBlack]

58. You're making my point

How can anyone possibly claim that black voters are voting for Obama solely because he's black while insisting at the same time that they didn't vote in large numbers for Sharpton because they "knew he wasn't a viable candidate?"

If black voters were intelligent, savvy and discerning enough to know that Sharpton "wasn't a viable candidate," and to vote against him even though he was black, why can't you also assume that black voters are intelligent, savvy and discerning enough to base their decision to vote FOR Obama on reasons other than his race?

Or is it that black voters are geniuses when they vote along the same lines as white people but racists when they don't?

[krkaufman]

60. So then Obama is *not* where he is because of the color of his skin.

His positions, manner and vision are part of his appeal.

[NDambi]

46. Lawd Effie...you just shut down Yadda Yadda bubble gum...with facts

:yourock:

[TexasLady]

35. 90 percent sure didnt vote for Jesse Jackson

Obama had to prove himself to be a worthy contender, to blacks and whites. I think he's done that.

[NDambi]

44. Soooooooooooo...

the same black people that have voted overwhelming for white politicians since Jesus was a baby, are now racist because they are voting for Obama?


Does that mean the large number of older women that voted previously for male politicians, that are now voting head and shoulders for Hillary mean they are men haters?

[midnight]

29. News reporters telling the first black and first women candidates

to....."Sit down and shut up!

"America's not ready for a black president, Obama can't win, so he'd better not run." Sit down and shut up so we can win this election. Of course, you can come out of your corner and vote for us when the time comes - we'll send a bus to get you to the polls. But otherwise, just sit down and shut up and let us run this operation.

VS

And whenever Kerry or Kennedy or Dean don’t stand up and demand respect for Hillary from you and condemn the words that flow out of your mouths when Tweety refers to her as ‘babe’ and Obama tells everyone that she gets angry at him when she’s feeling emotional, you reinforce that message. And any time Howard Fineman or Jonathan Alter or Eugene Robinson appear on Countdown with you to say how it’s urgent for the sake of the party that Hillary drop out of the race in spite of the fact that she has *earned* more votes in more crucial states than Barry ever has or will, you reinforce that message. Riverdaughter

We're not sitting down and shutting up. You'll get used to it.

But I hope we allow both candidates access to this Presidency that we will not tolerate inequality....

[Eurobabe]

30. Joe Scab-orough needs to get cancelled like Tucker.

(no that is not a typo, that is my new nickname for him)

Don't you sit down Effie, we got your back. I ain't sitting down either.

Morning Joe needs to STFU.

[JoFerret]

33. Stop watching television

It is rotting your brain

[NDambi]

36. Crawford is a Clinton Shill. Joe is a republican. No surprises for me.

[durrrty libby]

40. You are perfect for the BO campaign.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

42. thank you - recommended - this should get published other places too like:

maybe you would consider submitting the OP to www.opednews.com and
also over at Talking Points Memo (as a blog).

Great writing, great thoughts.

[faithfulcitizen]

45. This white woman says...

:applause: Great post! I didn't hear it, but I believe it, and agree that what she said was racist and should have been called on it. Racism isn't just for repubs, unfortunately. Obama didn't go nuts like Clinton did about "monster" either. He handled it with dignity and class. Recommended.

[kdpeters]

47. Always a pleasure to read your posts, EffieBlack

Keep up the good work. I always make it a point to click whenever I see your name in the author field.

[K Gardner]

49. Thank you, Effie.. and AMEN to your excellent post !

[GoneOffShore]

51. As a white guy brought up in the 50's & 60's

I certainly don't want you to sit down and shut up.

There's been far too much of that sentiment going around for far too long.

[Vinca]

52. If you want offensive, you should have heard Pat Buchanan on the

Dan Abrams show last night telling the black woman talking head to "shut up." Anyone upset at Olbermann should realize Pat Buchanan shares their views.

[City Lights]

53. Great post, EffieBlack!

Stand tall. Stand proud. And keep telling it like it is! :patriot:

[DevonRex]

54. Stand tall and speak loudly!

This white woman agrees with you completely!

[ecstatic]

55. Pat Pukkkanan actually told a black strategist to shut up last night

Should be in Pol Vid section

[BigDDem]

56. I definitely think you guys should make this campaign about

Geraldine Ferraro. Oh, and Hillary's tax returns

[Hawkowl]

61. WORD

From a mostly white guy.

[MagickMuffin]

63. Well Pat Buchanan did tell a black woman to SHUT UP

GOFF: I‘m actually not surprised to hear you make such a correlation. What conservative wouldn‘t, I mean, this is so typical.

BUCHANAN: Look, in Iowa and New Hampshire, there aren‘t that many black folks. He skipped Michigan. The first big contest was South Carolina.

(CROSSTALK)

GOFF: (INAUDIBLE)

BUCHANAN: Shut up for a second, please.

(CROSSTALK)

ABRAMS: Wait, wait, everyone stop. Stop.

BUCHANAN: The first contest was South Carolina and he got 76 percent of the black vote. Case closed.

GOFF: He wasn‘t winning the majority. You‘re forgetting all the states before that, Pat.

BUCHANAN: What are they?

GOFF: Nationally, in the national polls, he was not winning the majority of black voters -

(CROSSTALK)

GOFF: You‘re factually wrong.

ABRAMS: Hang on, hang on. Rachel, go ahead.

MADDOW: Let me jump in here. First of all, I would just say, as a matter of procedure here, Pat, I‘ve been with television with you, million times, I have never heard you calling anybody to shut up before. That was absolutely, completely ridiculous of you.

Second of all, tell me about how the black vote explains Obama‘s winning Utah?


The rest of the transcript is at link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23611997/


I was shocked that BUCHANAN told someone to shut up, especially a black woman, but it wouldn't have mattered what color their skin color was or what their sex was, to tell someone to shut up is rude and disrespectful.

I'll never tell you to shut up, EffieBlack. You keep talking, because the more you do the better off we all are.

[LWolf]

64. Keep talking.

I may or may not agree with you, but I don't want anyone silenced. If I can't support my positions in debate or conversation with you, then my positions have no foundation. If I can, why should I be worried about what you have to say?

Meanwhile, it takes all voices to make a whole dialog.

Keep talking.

[butterfly77]

66. Got the video..

I looked on Msnbc and it wasn't there..

[butterfly77]

67. K&R...