At least the preacher thing came out at a good time for Obama ...

[Altair]

this will get a lot of play, but it's 6 weeks til the next primary.

Trying to be objective, though, I do wonder if it necessarily is best for Obama for 2008 to be the year he runs at the top of the ticket. If he spent 4-8 years as VP, then all this talk about being a Muslim, and flag pins and his preacher from 4-8 years ago would be old news by the time of the general election.

I think this preacher thing has the potential to make the superdelegates decide that Hillary is less vulnerable in the general and that Obama is a rising star in the party who will be best served by being VP or something like that.

[MadBadger]

1. Hannity has been railing on Obama's Church for months now

What makes you think it will break though now?

[jackson_dem]

2. You're right. They are saving Wright for October

[MadBadger]

6. Please, they have shit on both candidates that they willl release in October

[jackson_dem]

10. They already used their ammo against Hillary. The blue dress won't work again

Obama is particularly vulnerable, like all "new" candidates, because he is undefined. Even while pristine he beats McCain by only 4-5. Imagine him after the rethugs are done with him...

[MadBadger]

11. They probably have a Bill affair waiting to release.

[jackson_dem]

15. That card didn't work in the 90's and people basically expect that from him at this point

A Bill affair may even help Hillary as it makes her a more sympathetic figure for the public, particularly women.

[MadBadger]

18. Bill isnt as popular in the general public today as he was in the 90s.

[jackson_dem]

20. Thanks to Obama's swiftboating of him as a racist

Another affair may actually help her, though, regardless of Bill.

[MadBadger]

21. We'll have to agree to disagree on the swiftboating, but thats to expect

I'm not getting into another divisive conversation on who race-baited who.

[cali]

41. Of course it worked. duh

and no, all it would do is make people shy away from years more of controversy and scandal.

[cali]

40. nope. try again. there's lots and lots and lots of new stuff on

Clintons that will resonate all the more for the old stuff. Hsu, Giustra, Gupta, offshore tax havens, Burkles, sale of worthless stock for a handsome profit, Paul, and yes Bill's personal life in the post White House years. Stop being so blind to the plethora of new Clinton negatives. All this crap will be more easily believed because so much of the country already is primed to believe it.

[Window]

39. Hagee & McCain

[Altair]

3. Video makes all the difference

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NanceGreggs]

5. Yeah, Obama needs more "experience" ...

... and that's the way American voters feel - the ones who have voted him into first place above his Dem opponents.

Maybe if he had Hill's "vastly superior experience", he could be in second place, where she is.

[Altair]

8. He needs both experience and distance from these swift-boatable things ...

he's still pretty new to the American people, and things like this video can have a disproportionate impact when a lot of people still aren't sure what he's about. I support Obama, but I'm not so blind to think that videos like this won't hurt his chances in the general election.

[Pirate Smile]

7. I agree. This isn't a bad time to get it over with since there isn't another

Primary for six weeks. I like this better then it dropping in the final days before a Primary or late in the GE.

[DearAbby]

9. Actually right on the heels of Ferraro...it looks like revenge

and petty with regards to Hillary and her supporters. And it also proves they have to source a Right Wing hack for support of their candidate. Hannity...jesus who would have thought it....DU has been Hannitized. :rofl:

[emilyg]

14. This has been mentioned before.

[anonymous171]

12. Obama/Clinton is the only way we can end this. IMHO

[redstate_democrat]

16. No chance.

The damage has been done. Rev. Wright does not work or speak on behalf of Obama's campaign and he has denounced some of the views of the pastor. Hillary on the other hand has used race as a weapon in this election. Obama has tried to run a clean race above racial politics. The truth will come through.

[anonymous171]

19. I know, but Obama needs to stick his neck out in the name of unity.

It's the only way he can simultaneously end this and get back on message. I would like Clinton as speaker. That way she could bully republicans to all her heart's content.

[CoffeeCat]

13. If all politicians were as squeaky-clean as Obama...

...then 99 percent of the problems in Washington would be eliminated.

Are you kidding me? We've got the Clinton machine bulldozing for dirt on Obama and hitting
him with everything they've got.

After all of this digging--there is absolutely nothing that will make one bit of difference in
our primary and especially in the General Election.

I mean really, I'd dying over here--ecstatic with joy that they only things they've got on Obama
are that he sometimes doesn't wear a flag lapel pin and outrageous rumors about him being a Muslim--which
are obvious fabrications that will be laughed at when the heavy GE campaigns kick in.

Then, oh no!! We've got the fact that he didn't put his hand on his heart during the pledge
of allegiance at a fundraiser in Iowa. :scared:

Oh....the humanity!

And now. NOW!!! Obama's preacher said something controversial, or incendiary. Dear God...is this the end? :eyes:
I mean really. They have no dirt on Obama so they have to find things that his preacher did and offer them up as
reasons why Obama shouldn't be President?

Stay tuned for controversy and shocking words from OBAMA'S DENTIST!! :scared: I imagine his dog groomer has
some skeletons too! Save this campaign from Poodlegate!

I bet each and every one of us could say that if our lives were dissected and researched for months--that
they'd definitely have more than this pinned on us. You know it's true.

[boppers]

27. A neighbor of his had a hair dresser who was related to a rapist!

My favorite amusement, for the time being, is Rezko.

Ooooh, somebody trying to get lives improved in the slums... talking to the very guy who owns the slums! How eeevvvil!

Second favorite is McCulkin (sp?), the preacher formerly "on the Down Low" that so many naive GLBT folks seem to hate... because they really, really, don't understand the dynamics of the issue at hand.

[LadyVT]

17. This is going to sink him. Now or later. It's over for Obama.

[Altair]

22. I reluctantly agree. I think we will see a superdelegate consensus emerge

that a Hillary-Obama ticket is the strongest one. I think superdelegates will approach Obama and urge him to accept the VP spot for the good of the party.

Obama should be a smart enough politician to see that 2008 is not going to be his year in the general election with the cumulative effect of an angry preacher, angry wife, refusing to wear a flag pin, etc.

The preacher part is what really makes me question his judgment for the first time- he has long has national political aspirations and surely he could foresee that this would come back to haunt him.

[anamandujano]

26. He refused the Veep spot with ridicule, to great fanfare here.

I think Hillary got the message and has withdrawn the offer.

:rofl:

[anonymous171]

33. Obama/Clinton is actually the strongest ticket.

Obama has a message, Clinton has the "experience." Experience is great for a fallback (and a fighter is good for speaker) and inspiration is great for a leader.

[ExtraGriz]

31. i agree

this is going to be played over and over....this isnt his aide, this is a man who had a tremendous role in his life. its kinda scary the venom that came out of him. its gotta have some brainwshing effect.

[TexasLady]

37. Most voters don't know/care about half the crap being slung.

They arent all political junkies like we are.
Not a bit of the shit being slung from both sides are going to change the majority of people that have chosen sides. This place is a slim example.

[theboss]

23. When did the Vice Presidency become good experience?

It's the most useless office in the American government?

You know the last two sitting VPs to win an election?

George HW Bush and Martin Van Fucking Buren.

[jackson_dem]

24. Gore won. Two of the last three vp's who ran for prez won. Only the dunce Quayle didn't

[theboss]

25. It's still a death sentence for a political career

Gore ran on the strongest economy in American history and essentially managed a tie.

And he was a VP with an actual record.

[jackson_dem]

28. It wasn't because he was VP. It was because he was a bad candidate

Plus the rethug msm was against him. When Gore ran for president before becoming VP he finished a weak third. As VP he got elected president.

I think VP is now what secretary of state was in the early years of the nation, the best stepping-stone to the presidency. Qualye was kind of a freak case. Nixon wound up becoming president, Humphrey nearly did, Mondale won his party's nomination thanks to being VP and having the party establishment behind him, Bush became president, and Gore won. LBJ and Ford succeeded to the presidency and Agnew resigned. The only VP since Nixon in the 50's who hasn't gotten anywhere in presidential politics is Quayle and that says more about Quayle than the office.

[theboss]

30. I think it has more to do with Republican dominance of presidential politics more than anything else

Republicans ALWAYS nominate the next man in line. So VP is a decent stepping stone to that status.

However, Johnson became president because JFK died. Ford became president because Nixon resigned. They don't really count as people who vaulted from VP into the White House. Mondale was a disaster who never should have been nominated but he was the only name in a group of sacrificial lambs.

[jackson_dem]

34. Look at the last few Dem veeps

First I don't think you can ignore veeps who became president via succession. If the goal of a politician is to become president they have to factor in the fact that of the 43 presidents 9 became president through succession, including 9 of the last 34 (26%). As far the last few Democratic veeps go Truman and LBJ succeeded to the presidency, Humphrey lost by a razor thin margin, Mondale won the nomination, and Gore won. Humphrey and Mondale lost but you can't become president without the nomination and Mondale wouldn't have gotten it without being veep and Humphrey and Gore are unlikely to have done so either, having failed to do so on their own in 1960 and 1988 respectively.

Being VP is not guarantee of being president but it has to be the most likely single route to the presidency these days.

[theboss]

35. Being a governor is the surest route to the Presidency over the past 30 years

Carter Reagan Clinton Bush

[jackson_dem]

36. 50 governors at a time, how many during the past four decades?

A tiny percentage become president or get the nomination (Dukakis). VP's have a higher rate of winning or at least getting the nomination. Maybe being governor of a megastate is a better launching pad but the last governor of California to become president is Reagan and the last governor of New York to become president is FDR. Bush won from Texas recently, though. I think the last governor of Florida to become president is Jackson and I don't think any governor of Illinois or Pennsylvania has made it to the White House, although Ohio and Virginia has sent many governors there, as has New York (Cleveland, TR, FDR won. Van Buren used being NY governor to get to be secretary of state and then veep, Tilden won but got screwed and Hughes, Smith, Dewey all won the nomination.) until its dry spell since FDR.

[Frank Booth]

29. I agree. Now is the perfect time for Obama for this to come out.

Frankly, Hillary supporters, I'm shocked and disappointed that you're playing this so poorly. If you'd just waited a few more weeks, it would have had a lot more impact.

As an Obama supporter, I knew that this issue would come up eventually and it really worried me. I'm relieved and glad that it came up now instead of prior to Super Tuesday, the Virginia/Maryland/DC primaries, or Texas/Ohio (or, even worse, during the general election). This whole thing should die down in about a week.

Usually, the campaign-connected Hillary posters on this site (like HM, JL, and a few others) are very savvy at timing these things. What happened to you guys?? Did Fox jump the gun on you??

[ExtraGriz]

32. its never a good time for anything like this to come out...n/t

[Frank Booth]

38. It was going to come out eventually.

I guess we can both be thankful that it came out now, after the big primaries are over and well in advance of the general election.
:toast: