Obama had better sever ties with his pastor tomorrow or we can kiss the general election goodbye

[ruggerson]

I realize he is not doing this with the blessing of the Obama camp and that Obama can't control this guy.

But, this guy is insane.

If Obama is our nominee, he has to sever ties with this man.

If you ask me, this campaign just gets worse and worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPjVp3PLnVs

[DJ13]

1. He is no longer his Pastor

He resigned earlier this year, but nice try.

:rofl:

[gabeana]

5. This is desperation on the Clinton camp

their hoping for a scandal:puke:

[niceypoo]

112. The scandal is the travesty...

...and the travesty is the absolute failure of Obama supporters in the media to attempt to lure Hillarys supporters to their side by selling them on Obama's policy, instead of trying to destroy their candidate by going all out negative.

[ruggerson]

7. Sorry, but he's going to have repudiate this and then some

this is not going to play well at all.

I'm glad you think losing the election is funny.

[pingzing58]

146. Interesting how most candidates are having to distance themselves from their religious leaders.

[stevenleser]

161. He already has...

weeks ago. How many times should he have to do that?

[rug]

13. Somebody should tell the webmaster.

http://www.tucc.org/pastor.htm

[MADem]

66. According to news reports, the guy is still at the church--and in IRS trouble, too.

Obama Pastors' Sermons
May Violate Tax Laws
Famous Parishioner
Disavows Himself
From Partisan Tilt
By SUZANNE SATALINE
March 10, 2008; Page A1

On Christmas morning, Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. compared presidential candidate Barack Obama's impoverished childhood to Jesus Christ's. "Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people," he then trumpeted. "Hillary can never know that."

Mr. Wright wasn't at a convention or a campaign stop. He was standing at the pulpit before the mostly African-American congregation of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, where Sen. Obama has worshiped for more than 20 years.

Mr. Wright, who will be ending his 36-year tenure as the church's senior pastor in June, has previously been criticized for comments deriding President George Bush and lauding Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam. Now Mr. Wright's and his successor's repeated enthusiastic promotion of their famous parishioner may be running afoul of federal tax law, which says churches can endanger their tax-exempt status by endorsing or opposing candidates for public office.

Sen. Obama's campaign issued a statement saying that he has repeatedly stressed that personal attacks "have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church." The statement also said he "does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Senator Obama deeply disagrees.'' Mr. Wright declined to comment.

Trinity's national parent, the United Church of Christ, recently disclosed that it's being investigated by the Internal Revenue Service for a speech Sen. Obama gave to 10,000 people at a church conference in June in Hartford, Conn., in which he mentioned his candidacy and parts of his platform, namely health-care reform.

Scholars and attorneys say that a growing number of congregations are delving into issue advocacy and partisan politics, a trend dating back to the 1980s, when the religious right enlisted churches to fight abortion. An increasing number of complaints to the IRS over church politicking have triggered agency probes into both liberal and conservative religious groups. A Baptist church in California has acknowledged it's under IRS scrutiny after a watchdog group complained that the church backed Republican Mike Huckabee in his recently ended bid for the White House.....Some of the sermons mentioned Sen. Clinton or her husband in unflattering ways. During that Christmas morning sermon, Mr. Wright declared that Hillary Clinton "ain't had to work twice as hard just to get accepted by the rich white folk who run everything or to get a passing grade when you know you are smarter than that 'C' student sitting in the White House." On Jan. 13, Mr. Wright told the Trinity congregation that some people say, "'Hillary is married to Bill and Bill been good to us.'" Mr. Wright continued, "No, he ain't!" Sen. Clinton's campaign didn't respond to requests for comment.




In a little box accompanying the article, we see this verbiage:

THOU SHALT VOTE FOR...


• The News: Sen. Barack Obama's Chicago church has been promoting him -- and criticizing his rival Hillary Clinton -- from the pulpit.
• The Issue: Has the church violated federal law that restricts a church's political activity?
• What's At Stake: The church's tax-exempt status and its ability to raise money.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120511457633523621.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

[MADem]

29. Who resigned? The Pastor, or Obama from the church? NT

[KittyWampus]

56. Wow, tell me you're not going to go down the McCarthy road... Clintons' aren't worth it

you're better than that.

[MADem]

73. Please follow the thread. A poster asserted that someone RESIGNED.

I wanted to know if the PASTOR resigned, or OBAMA resigned -- from the CHURCH.

It turns out, based on the research I bothered to do, that the pastor has NOT resigned, but will NEXT June.

Near as I can tell Obama is still a church member, but he's in "disavowal" mode of the pastor's comments.

The church is under investigation for violation of IRS regs about touting candidates from the pulpit. I posted the article in this thread. It's a worthwhile read.

[grantcart]

81. new pastor thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5053308

[MADem]

86. That guy's in hot water with the IRS, too.

From the article cited elsewhere in this thread:

Ellen Aprill, an associate dean at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and a former adviser to the Treasury Department on matters including nonprofit tax law, says she believes those sermons are "clearly a violation. They're naming names.''...During a Trinity sermon observed by a Journal reporter on March 2, the Rev. Otis Moss III, the pastor, preached, "There was a non-Babylonian, a young man who heard the word of God and said, 'I have the audacity to hope!' Now the whole nation says, 'Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can!'"

"Because that phrase is so identified with Barack Obama and because he is a member of the congregation, it's possible that it could be interpreted as an implicit endorsement,'' Ms. Aprill says. Mr. Moss didn't return calls seeking comment.

[BlackVelvet04]

147. Not effective until May....

and he's still Obama's personal mentor. Keep on whistling through the graveyard.

[DesEtoiles]

2. Hillary better sever her ties with Ferraro, you mean

[karmicglee]

4. Ferraro resigned

And Clinton disagreed with Ferraro.

[DesEtoiles]

9. Hillary never denounced or rejected her

[Ravy]

18. She did, too. Several times. I heard her this morning and

there are many links to her comments.

[americanstranger]

38. Yeah, she said it was 'regrettable.'

That was fucking weak.

And according to the NYT, she used the age-old Republican semi-apology: 'I'm sorry if anyone was offended.'

Fucking. Weak.

- as

[Ravy]

Countdown led off tonight with her saying she rejected and renounced it.

And I heard a clip (may have been the same one) this morning on Morning, Joe where she specifically used the word "reject". I know because I was listening for it.

I thought she should be strong about it, and I think she was.

I thought Wolfson yesterday was weak, though.

[grantcart]

77. Pathetic

I don't really care which one of them wins. Both have pluses and minuses. I just know that we won't choose choose the right one if we let the media choose for is in this way.

[Ravy]

88. Not as pathetic as defending a bias in the media. nt

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Riktor]

93. Fallacy

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't count myself a Hillary fan, but the misadventures of the Hillary camp do not excuse the misadventures of the Obama camp. How about a little less hero-worship and a little more objectivity?

[JoFerret]

3. And JJ Jr as well

This "pastor" is pretty bad.

[SoonerPride]

6. Ah heck. McCain hugs a dude who hates Catholics

Maybe we'd be better if all religions just went away?

[Cali_Democrat]

8. He is no longer his pastor. How else would you like him to cut ties?

Murder him?

[jackson_dem]

11. It is too late. Obama's silence when it counted says it all and can't be changed

Obama would be a ge disaster..

[GarbagemanLB]

25. Yeah, and Hillary's missing taxes from 2000-2006 won't cause any controversy!

[Arkansas Granny]

123. Do you realize that releasing tax forms is not required? The candidates

do so voluntarily. They are required to file personal financial disclosure forms, but their tax information is not a part of that.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3165953&page=2

[GarbagemanLB]

126. Do you think that excuse will fly with the public? Sorry, it won't.

[Arkansas Granny]

131. I was just pointing out that she is not breaking any campaign law by

not releasing her tax forms. I have seen some who believe that she has.

[Bake]

139. Jesus H. Christ!! How do you think "God Damn America" is going to go over with the public?

Are you people fucking BLIND????

Bake

[MonkeyFunk]

50. How so?

Wright is still senior pastor. Did Obama leave the church?

[JoFerret]

113. Obama will have to deal with this

sooner or later.
Sooner would be better. This is mild to what will happen in the fall.

I don't know how he deals with it but it is full of all the GOP's favorite themes - "patriotism", 9/11, race, and sex.

[MADem]

82. Obama has not left the church, has he?

And the pastor hasn't left yet, either--he's not leaving until June.

This article does put the pastor on the wrong side of the law, though:

Mr. Wright, who will be ending his 36-year tenure as the church's senior pastor in June, has previously been criticized for comments deriding President George Bush and lauding Louis Farrakhan of the Nation of Islam. Now Mr. Wright's and his successor's repeated enthusiastic promotion of their famous parishioner may be running afoul of federal tax law, which says churches can endanger their tax-exempt status by endorsing or opposing candidates for public office....Donald Tobin, an associate dean at Ohio State University law school, who formerly worked for the Justice Department on nonprofit tax matters, adds that nonprofits cannot make endorsements or engage in a "pattern and practice that is designed to support one candidate over another." After being read sections of the Trinity sermons by the Journal, he said, "There does seem to be a pattern of attempting to tip the scales in a way for Barack Obama. And churches shouldn't be doing that."

Allusions to Candidate

In some instances, the church's ministers alluded to Sen. Obama without naming him. During a Trinity sermon observed by a Journal reporter on March 2, the Rev. Otis Moss III, the pastor, preached, "There was a non-Babylonian, a young man who heard the word of God and said, 'I have the audacity to hope!' Now the whole nation says, 'Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can!'"

"Because that phrase is so identified with Barack Obama and because he is a member of the congregation, it's possible that it could be interpreted as an implicit endorsement,'' Ms. Aprill says. Mr. Moss didn't return calls seeking comment.

Congregants are hearing more about politics during worship services than they did decades ago, scholars say. A 2006 poll of 3,000 churchgoers found that about a third of Roman Catholics and white evangelicals and 42% of black Protestants said politics and social issues had been discussed from the pulpit at least "once every month or two," according to David Campbell, a political science professor at the University of Notre Dame, who commissioned the survey for a book he is helping to write on churches' civic life.

Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a Washington, D.C., nonprofit, says it has filed 13 complaints with the IRS in the past year over alleged church politicking. They include allegations that churches made endorsements from the pulpit or on church stationery for Sen. Obama or Mr. Huckabee, says Rob Boston, a spokesman. One of those complaints involves First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., which has acknowledged that it's under federal investigation. The ministry endorsed Mr. Huckabee on its stationery and its Internet radio program, Americans United said.

Current Investigations

The IRS won't disclose how many congregations it is currently investigating. Last July, the agency reported that it was reviewing complaints involving 44 churches and 56 other nonprofits related to the 2006 election cycle and had, at that point, found 26 cases of improper political activity. The agency examined 110 cases during the 2004 elections, issuing 69 advisories, akin to warning letters, and revoked the tax-exempt status of five nonprofits, none of them churches.

Revoked Status

Since Congress amended the tax law in 1954 to restrict campaign activity by nonprofits, only two churches have had their tax-exemptions revoked, according to the IRS. The most recent case involved Branch Ministries Inc., which ran a church in Binghamton, N.Y., and placed full-page ads in two newspapers in 1992 urging Christians not to vote for then-candidate Bill Clinton. The IRS decision was upheld on appeal.

Losing tax-exempt status would be a serious blow to any church. It likely would be subject to income taxes and not be able to solicit tax-deductible contributions. Any IRS investigation -- even if it doesn't lead to any action -- can embroil a church in months, sometimes years, of costly legal battles.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120511457633523621.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

[BlackVelvet04]

148. Keep up....

he IS still the pastor until June.

[jefferson_dem]

10. I agree.

That's some crazy shit. Barack needs to distance himself from this fella. It's the right thing to do politically and, more importantly, it's not who Barack is and what he represents.

[ruggerson]

14. I don't think it's too late

but he's got to somehow completely condemn this guy or we're fucked. This won't play well in middle america at all.

[jefferson_dem]

19. Here's what Obama had to say in January...

"As I've told Reverend Wright, personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church," he said. "I don't think of the pastor of my church in political terms.

"Like a member of my own family, there are things he says at times with which I deeply disagree," he said. "But as he prepares to retire, that doesn't detract from my affection for Reverend Wright or appreciation for the good works he has done."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-te.preacher16jan16,0,1629577.story

This is nothing new but he should clarify this position pronto. I wonder when this video is from. Wright mentions Hillary but I think he also mentions Ghouliani.

[ruggerson]

20. I think he's gotta get a lot more brutal than that

Ben Smith just ran with it. It makes Ferraro look like MLK.

[scheming daemons]

37. Throwing one's friends under the bus is a Hillary trait.... Obama won't do that....

I disagree with my father's politics VEHEMENTLY... but if I was running for office, I wouldn't renounce him.



One can have friends that they disagree with. Obama disagrees with his pastor on lots of things, and has publicly said so.

[ruggerson]

100. "disagree" doesn't do it

this is blatantly offensice, incendiary stuff that smears Italians, whites, you name it. If Ferraro needed to be denounced, which she did, then this needs to be thrown off the cliff.

[Cass]

136. Wait a second. There appears to be 2 sets of standards in play here.

When Hillary apologized for Ferraro's remarks it wasn't good enough for most Obama supporters because the apology was, in their view, weak and Ferraro's resignation was late in coming. However, in this case of offensive racially charged remarks, you say we should just accept that Obama disagrees with the Reverend's remarks and leave it at that? Why the double standard?

[Bake]

142. Because it's OBAMA, silly!

But you already knew that!

:rofl:

Bake

[Bake]

140. He'd better drive the fucking bus over him!

If he ever wants to set foot inside the White House. If he's not willing to do that, fine, quit the race and give the Dems a chance at the general election.

Bake

[BlackVelvet04]

149. and just how do you know that it's now who Barack is and

what he represents? He's supported that church for 20 years. Wright has been his personal mentor for 20 years. Why? Because he disagrees with most everything they stand for? Get real.

[NorthernSpy]

12. is he any worse than McCain's "Catholics are the Whore of Babylon" Rev Hagee?

I dunno if this is a conversation the right really wants to start...

[jackson_dem]

16. Is Hillary's pastor a racist or anti-Catholic?

If we run Hill we can attack McCain over Hagee. If we run Obama the right will love the conversation due to simple math. There are more whites than Catholics and many Catholics are white and some will be more outraged at Wright. Besides, Wright is Obama's mentor and pastor. That is a closer association, and Obama apparently had no problem with Wright's racism, than Hagee-McCain.

[scheming daemons]

39. Guilt by association.... Obama's Pastor's viewpoints DO NOT EQAUL Obama's...

Do you agree with everything every one of your friends says or does?

[MonkeyFunk]

60. Yeah

it's not like people attack Clinton for things her supporters say.

[GoldieAZ49]

67. Big difference, he only 'endorsed' McCain

McCain hasn't spent the past 20 years as a member of his church

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. Damn that's funny... you have to laugh or cry, and I'm cried out.

Best part: "Jesus was a black man in a culture controlled by rich white people... the Romans, who were Italians."

I doubt first century Galileans were any darker or more African than Sicilians, for instance, but what's a good bible story without the occasional condemnation of Italians? (Maybe that's why Ferraro is so pissed off)

[ruggerson]

22. New England is heavily Italian American

states like CT, MA and RI.

[jackson_dem]

27. And NJ, where Obama is losing those 15 electoral votes to McCain...

(Hill wins)

[mckeown1128]

41. obama more than makes up those pathetic 15 electoral votes..

with states like IO, ND, CO, MO, WA, OR, KA, and VA... all of which Hillary is losing to McCain.

[QC]

43. Don't forget Idaho and Mississippi! n/t

[LostinVA]

121. Do you honestly think states like ND, MO, CO, KA and VA will go blue?

VA will eventually become a blue state, but it's not there yet.

[boston bean]

128. They honestly do, they are true believers. nt

[mckeown1128]

145. Polling shows Obama beating McCain in those states...

Look at some of their senators... there is potential...

[leftynyc]

130. Doyou think the voters in those

states have the information in the OP? My guess is NO. It's a problem that needs to be addressed and addressed NOW unless you wish to put your head in the sand.

[GoldieAZ49]

72. yeah I wasn't laughing

Best part: "Jesus was a black man in a culture controlled by rich white people... the Romans, who were Italians."


I bet those of the Jewish faith will be glad to hear that.....a few centuries to late tho

[ruggerson]

17. Politico just ran with it

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wright_on_film.html

[struggle4progress]

30. Politico is a rightwing site: screw em

[katandmoon]

21. And yet -- Obama is half white

Not that you'd ever know it.

[femrap]

85. I guess he doesn't talk about

his mother much.

[1776Forever]

23. His pastor retried in Feb. 2008...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

He retired on Sunday, February 10th, 2008 after 36 years of service as the Senior Pastor of that congregation.

................

[rug]

24. Effective May 2008.

[1776Forever]

Maybe - But this article says he gave his last sermon on Feb. 11th

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-wright_11feb11,1,6128527.story?track=rss

Wright's successor is Rev. Otis Moss III, son of civil rights legend Rev. Otis Moss Jr., who pastored with Rev.Martin Luther King Sr. at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta.

[ruggerson]

28. for pete's sakes

watch the frigging video!

[BeyondGeography]

26. Hillary better sever her ties with Bill tomorrow or we can kiss the general election goodbye

:hi:

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[usrbs]

116. ?!

Please read, reflect on whether you really want to be represented by this post (and others), and hopefully, edit.

[LostinVA]

122. What a disgusting sexist post

[dchill]

31. ruggerson: I call on you to reject and denounce this OP...

Obama has already dealt with this, and the guy has retired from the church. Politico is reporting that the video has been posted at foxnews.com. The "credibility" never stops.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dchill]

42. I know, but I had to try...

It's just bewildering how they take on the characteristics of their many-flawed leader, and quickly seize any dirty tactic that the Clinton campaign introduces them to. It's instant, and it's automatic. It's so much like the Freepers that it's scary.

[ruggerson]

45. you're actually trying to defend this video?

[dchill]

51. Sure, right - how can you be so dense?

Oh, I forgot.

[dchill]

53. No, I'm trying to get you to reject and denounce yourself.

:eyes:

[ruggerson]

62. I am rejecting and denouncing what this crazed man says

as will about 95% of America. I don't give a flying fu** what news outlet uncovered it, it's out there now in all its glory. And instead of shooting the messenger, you should be worried about our chances in the general. I don't want to deal with four more years of Republican bullshit. This is exactly the kind of shit that will doom us. Open your eyes.

[geek tragedy]

63. Angry black people frighten you.

I hope you live in New Hampshire or Maine or somewhere where there are no angry black people.

[scheming daemons]

33. The pastor is retired......

Do you agree with everything your pastor has said or done? If not.... then WTF is the problem, exactly?


Obama already answered this... brilliantly.... paraphrasing:

"He's my friend. I don't agree with every opinion he has."


That's all it takes.

[ruggerson]

54. that's not all it takes, sd and you're fooling yourself if you think that

this is incendiary crap that Obama needs to very loudly and very strongly distance himself from.

[MojoMojoMojo]

150. Obamas friend of 20 years hates America.He needed to condemn Wright's words

20 years ago if he wanted to win the White House.
Its too late now.Obama will be viewed as guilty by association.
"God Damn America" will never go away.
I think you will see some of his support dry up very soon.
And if Obama does make it to the GE,those words will rally EVERY white cracker racist in the country,and rally every normal patriotic GOP American to vote .Especially after hearing that phrase repeated every day on the swiftboat ads.
The GOP couldnt have imagined a better get out the vote .

"Obama already answered this... brilliantly.... paraphrasing:

"He's my friend. I don't agree with every opinion he has.""

[geek tragedy]

34. Thanks for your concern, Hillbot. n/t

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dchill]

59. I'm a "non donating freerider on this site" too...

AND an Obama supporter. But I'm not a race-baiting maneur spreader.

[ruggerson]

64. the only one

i see race baiting in this context is you.

[geek tragedy]

68. Yeah, just like you people blamed Obama for what Gerry Ferraro

bleated.

HRC supporters and apologists have no credibility on race. Period.

[ruggerson]

71. I wrote that what Ferraro said was divisive

and wrong. Your tirades and generalizations about Hillary supporters betray your utter lack of honesty.

[dchill]

75. So show me the quote where I race-baited...

You are truly beneath contempt. And if you want to see some truly campaign-killing video, check the YouTube stuff on Bill & Hillary. Talk about deep shit.

[ruggerson]

78. By

asking me to "denounce" this as if there is anything for me to denounce. You can't go around calling people racist and not expect it to get flung back at you. You're cheapening real racism by doing so. This man is beneath contempt. And he's our possibly nominee's spiritual mentor. I don't want to lose the fucking election. Do you?

[dchill]

89. I would truly, truly love to be able to...

"cheapen real racism." Your mock-concern about losing the election is just badly-camouflaged Clinton promo. I believe that you just don't want Hillary to "lose the fucking election." You could give a flying flip about Obama - or you wouldn't be PROMOTING the stupid video. Do you want people to start posting YouTube Hillary-Peter Paul stuff? Probably not - even though that's a much bigger threat to our party in the fall.

[ruggerson]

95. you already have cheapened it

and your offensive pretense that you can magically discern my motives is utter horseshit. I look at the Republicans as the enemy. They're the ones we have to defeat. Meanwhile, you're stuck in your fucked up little whiny jihad against Hillary Clinton. I am happily prepared to push very hard for Obama if he's our nominee. So troll your "mock concern" crap elsewhere. Or have you conveniently not noticed all the Obama supporters on this site and even in this thread who are also worried about this? I guess in your warped mind they're all secret Hillary supporters.

[dchill]

101. Right.

Now what about the Peter Paul story. What about the 2000 Campaign Finance Fraud story? No problem at all - even if it's just the tip of the iceberg, right? I'm worried about the people around HERE that post any of it, in their "concerned" way. I'm not magically discerning anything - I've read your shit.

[ruggerson]

102. Where have I ever said

that Hillary doesn't have problems in her closet? Fact is, Obama is more likely, at this point, to be our nominee. He's the one who's got to defeat McCain. You're stuck in gear one, where me and other Hillary supporters are the enemy. Try to jolt yourself into at least gear 3 where Obama might be having to deal with this shit being played over and over, endlessly on television and in emails. Get a fucking grip.

[dchill]

103. "me and other Hillary supporters"

That's all I need to judge your credibility - that and the fact that I HAVE read your other crap. It's obviously no clue to you that Rush Limbaugh wants his dittoes to vote for Hillary in the primaries, or that the Republicans are unnerved by an Obama candidacy because they've been pushing for Hillary for over two years, or that they are very nervous about playing the race card against him and that it's really their best argument - which is no argument at all. Try to jolt yourself into at least gear 1. They are more afraid of Barack Hussein Obama than Hillary. They want her. They WANT her.

[ruggerson]

104. You have no credibility

if you condemn all Hillary supporters with your twisted, ugly broad brush. You're having a different conversation than I'm having; it's as if you're responding to some twisted script in your own head instead of to what I'm writing. I'm really sorry you have this truly fucked up blind loathing towards people who have supported Hillary in this primary. I can't help you with that. Maybe a professional can.

[dchill]

107. I think we both know where the twisted and ugly comes from.

And she needs to tell her supporters to cut it out. The race is over, the goal of catching Obama's delegate count or popular vote count cannot be legitimately reached. The sooner the twisted and ugly stops, the better for the Democratic Party. Professional help? I was thinking that very same thing, but was loath to bring it up. I've enjoyed our snappy repartee, but I'll be moving along now, wishing you well.

[ruggerson]

109. yeah we sure do

look long and hard in the mirror

[dchill]

137. seen this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5056606&mesg_id=5056606

twisted. ugly. HRC supporters.

[usrbs]

118. Congratulations!

For embodying all of the stereotypes about Obama supporters -

- Denial and dismissal of any negative story, no matter how true, which is, dare I say it, cult-like
- Extreme illogical hatred towards the other side
- Unsubstantiated accusations of racism

[dchill]

97. Oh, OK - didn't recognize it at first.

The Geraldine Ferraro defense. How's that?

[LTR]

115. Real classy

And you complain about being insulted. Sheesh!

:eyes:

[cooolandrew]

36. More on pastor here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3qOi_l1RGY

maybe.

[Baclava]

44. "Jesus was a poor black man"........like Obama?

That's hilarious, I don't care who you are.

[Quixote1818]

46. As an Obama supporter. That video is certainly something to be concerned with

Obama needs to denounce any of that kind of crap and sever all ties.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

48. He has. Months ago.

[Quixote1818]

98. Good. Then it's a non story. nt

[BlackVelvet04]

151. No he hasn't.....

Wright is still his mentor and still at that church until June.

[GoldieAZ49]

47. oh shit

this is going to play great in the GE!

20 years in this church? No wonder he gave Faarakan an award.

[Joe the Revelator]

49. I'm white and I like the good pastor...

what part of what he said was so hateful when compared with the shit coming out of Hillary's campaign? What part of what he said was untrue?

[Beacool]

74. You must be deaf then, it makes Ferraro's comments tame by comparison.

The dear reverend was race baiting and it is a disgusting thing to do in a church sermon. I have never attended in my entire life any church where the pastor would say something so divisive, quite the contrary, they have all talked about unity, hope and charity. No matter whether they were white or black. I attend a Lutheran church and both of our pastors happen to be women, one is white and the other one is black. Both are terrific ladies and they would be appalled by Wright's hateful message and race baiting.

[leftynyc]

132. Forget Hillary

How is he going to handle this during the general against McCain? How can he attack Hagee when this is out there?

[MojoMojoMojo]

156. If you like him so much ,use his words for Obamas campaign ."Obama ,God Damn America"

[angie_love]

52. Ugh, yeah this is going to hurt unfortunately.

I hate to say it, but the guy sounds nutty and this doesn't make Obama look good at all. This is racially offensive and I hope Obama strong repudiates Wright for this. Its just offensive, I'm really disgusted by what Wright said regarding Monica Lewinsky and the "n" comment. This is not good.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

55. He denounced it months ago.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/politics/bal-te.preacher16jan16,0,1629577.story

[angie_love]

58. unfortunately thats not going to be enough. this will play over and over again.

I don't want it to be true but unfortunately thats the way it is. This will be all over the news tomorrow. I can't believe he would go and say offensive and disgusting things for a reverand. Obama needs to come out STRONGLY against this ASAP.

[ruggerson]

87. Yep

you totally get it. This is truly fucked up. And look at some of the utterly pathetic people in this thread attacking "Hillbots" as if any Hillary supporters had anything to do with this. There's a VERY good chance Obama is going to be our nominee and this kind of stuff will make him lose in a landslide. I hope he understands how bad this is and denounces it in very strong terms. He has the oratorical ability to pull it off and he needs to use it.

[GoldieAZ49]

94. This guy has been Obama's spiritual leader for 20 year

It was the first and only religion he 'joined' an Afrocentric theology that clearly is racist...and he is running as a uniter?

denouncing him isn't going to cut it. He cannot separate himself from this.



Oh what a special GE this is going to be!

[angie_love]

99. wow Goldie you did a complete 180 or maybe I'm mistaken.

Were you an Obama supporter? Maybe you're not but somehow I thought you were. Clearly you are not now anyway. Obama can and will seperate himself from this. Obviously he doesn't agree with this. Yee of little faith.

[GoldieAZ49]

108. yes I was a very enthusiastic Obama supporter but

it has been fading more and more as all this info has been coming out, I am seeing the primary do so much damage I am doubting that either candidate will be able to win

My sister has already done a 180 and is going to vote republican for the first time in her life (she is mid 50's!), it was the 3am phone call question that changed her mind, national security, she wants McCain, there were other small things but that is what she said was the clincher.

[angie_love]

134. I know well try to hang in there. I think we are so focused on the little things that everything

seems like a huge deal. My sister who doesn't follow politics said to me "i like that obama guy" even with all the stuff that has been happening. Hang in there if you can, I know its hard, its been hard for me too. I truly do not believe Obama is the 'afrocentric black supremisist' character that his pastor is. I really do not buy that. But he should definitely denounce teh pastors behavior b/c it is deplorable.

[angie_love]

96. Well I'd rather have it out there now than later but I wish this didn't happen at all!

But yes, Obama needs to strongly denounce this. Its bad. This is getting ugly very fast and I'm already burnt out.

[MojoMojoMojo]

159. Condemning Wright strongly wont help IMO.Its obvious his loyalty to his

pastor is only being affected by the bad publicity.
How is anyone to believe he sincerely condemns someone today who was acceptable to him yesterday?

"I hope he understands how bad this is and denounces it in very strong terms. He has the oratorical ability to pull it off and he needs to use it."

[jlake]

57. Wow. That will surely cost the GE...... WOW!

And now it is clear where Michelle's rage comes from....... beyond belief.
The IRS needs to investigate this church immediately.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jeffrey_X]

117. LMMFAO!!

good one!

[MojoMojoMojo]

160. Her thesis is the next shoe to drop.Ill bet the GOP has a huge bounty for it.

Or they are sitting on it until after the nomination.
If it has a similar tinge of hatred ,hello President Mccain

[Beacool]

61. Oh, that's too rich!!!!

Obama has been attending this church for 20 years. Would anybody here attend a church where the pastor associated with the likes of Farrakhan and spewed these type of remarks more often that not.

Well, if the pastor of my church fomented division between the races, I would have changed churches long ago.

Furthermore, I assume that this church has a tax exemption like most other churches. It would be interesting to see what the IRS has to say about this man talking politics and naming names during a sermon. Isn't the church already under investigation?

Yep, Hillary and her campaign are horrible people, but Obama and his surrogates are just squeaky clean and would never dream of playing the race card. Nope, no siree!!!!!!!!

Hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!

[angie_love]

69. you can wipe that ugly smile off your face now.

[Beacool]

79. Smile? I'm laughing my butt off at the sheer hypocrisy

of so many here who constantly bash Hillary and call her names. When time after time Obama has plenty of people around him who are far worse. Besides, Rev. Wright was his spiritual adviser for years and still is for all I know. Obama is fully aware of the dear pastor's views of the relationship between the races.

:eyes:

[angie_love]

83. read my post several notches above.

racism is not ok on either side. and I don't know why you would laugh about it. its disgusting. and you laughing about it tells me all i need to know about you.

[Beacool]

92. I'm not laughing at racism, I'm laughing at the hypocrisy of so many

Obama supporters who constantly bash Hillary and call her every name under the sun, but who don't see much wrong with Wright and all the other race baiters that Obama has around him. ie: Jesse Jackson Jr.

[Baclava]

133. A cult of hypocrits?

That won't go over well.

[grantcart]

70. wikipedia

Relationship with Barack Obama
The title of Senator and Presidential candidate Barack Obama's book The Audacity of Hope was taken from a sermon written by Wright.<5> Obama first met Wright and joined his church while he was working as a community organizer prior to attending Harvard Law School. Obama's connection to Wright first drew attention in a February 2007 Rolling Stone article which described a speech in which Wright forcefully spoke about racism against African-Americans.<6> Citing the article and fears that any further controversy would harm the church, Obama scrapped plans of having Wright introduce him at his Presidential announcement. <7> Obama has often said that he and Rev. Wright sometimes disagree. <8>


Controversy

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[angie_love]

84. Piehole is that you? why do you keep coming back to where you've been banned.

[Unsane]

80. Is this the "incident" Hillary's been waiting for?

[Riktor]

91. Is this guy a pastor or a comedian???

Seriously, this guy could give those Aryan Nation boneheads a run for their money in the "historically inaccurate" department.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

106. the only people wallowing in the mud

are those defending this guy. You look covered in filth.

[Umbram]

110. We need a candidate with the pride to admit to being an atheist.

Most Christians in this country don't treat it any more seriously than collecting fucking stamps, yet every election season we have to deal with this who-is-holier-than-whom bullshit.

[theredpen]

127. What holier than whom bullshit?

What, exactly, are you referring to?

And how is it Obama's fault that atheists don't run for national office?

[BlackVelvet04]

111. jesus was a poor BLACK man?

Ok...I thought he was Jewish.

[Umbram]

114. Yea, don't get your feathers ruffled

He was blond with blue eyes and a California accent.
Everything will be OK!

[BlackVelvet04]

119. I don't have feathers and if I did they wouldn't be ruffled.....

to say Jesus was a Black man or a blond with blue eyes is just so seriously stupid.

[usrbs]

120. He was a brown Jew

[theredpen]

125. Jesus was an oppressed racial minority

Jesus was black in the same sense that Bill Clinton was "the first black President." It's not a literally true statement. It's a metaphor. A lot of preaching is metaphor; that's how it remains relevant.

Jesus faced oppression by a racist regime run by rich white men (Romans). He was ultimately lynched for being "uppity."

If you can't see why this image might resonate with the black community, then maybe you should try to be a little less like the racist white men who run this regime.

[skater314159]

129. Jews, Irish, Italians and other groups were "Black"

... in America well into the 20th Century. Like everything else social, race is culturally constructed... for example in Brazil, there are at least sixteen differnt "races" recognised in the culture, and you can change yours.

Saying that 'Jesus was "Black"' is a phrase from Liberation Theology - which I happen to love and practice - that shows Jesus wasn't THE MAN™ as so many White, Protestant, Men have wanted him to be.

[JerseygirlCT]

143. Not mutually exclusive, you know. nt

[chascarrillo]

124. Smear merchant.

[Seabiscuit]

135. I don't think he's "officially" part of his campaign but rather a "spiritual adviser" which is worse

You are right in that in the GE the Republicans will take Wrights words which sound crazy on the face and make this huge non-stop deal out of it. However, I understand that Rev. Wright personally saved and brought in Obama into the church in 1988 and that is a very long personal history. I don't think Obama will distance himself from Wright.

[Lucinda]

138. Yeah. He is actually part of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obama120407pr.html

[Seabiscuit]

144. Thanks Wlucinda. All I can say is ... OOPS! nt

[Political Heretic]

141. This is barely making the news anywhere other than here.

It's not new - its been out there forever with NO traction. He's not Obama's pastor now, Obama has already distanced himself from him. FOX news has been all over it since about December, and nothing - no traction, its not hurting him, its a non-story.

[stolidus]

153. Non-story?

You are most certainly deluding yourself.

This is the elephant in the room my friend.

[ruggerson]

165. good grief dude

it's everywhere

[ProSense]

152. How idiotic! Obama will crush McCain. The good thing is that you realize Hillary is out! n/t

[stolidus]

155. Be reasonable...

Obama is a liability to our party come General Election time...

As a matter of fact, he is proving his liability to our party in this primary race.

It is Obama's team that called attention to Ferraro's reasonable but empty supposition and in doing deliberately created this divisive disaster.

[ProSense]

158. Here, you need

a dose of reality

[stolidus]

162. nothing but spin...

Obama's team called Ferraro out, and played the race card once again, just like they did in South Carolina, simple. They are desperate to create energy for Obama's waning media support. Remember...we are liberals...you know,...the ones who actually give a shit about racial prejudice and minorities bumping into the damn glass ceiling. Obama's team is attempting to play on liberal guilt. They want liberals to feel guilty for not voting Obama when they are all alone standing in the polling booth. This might work in the primary, but it will backfire in the general election.

[ProSense]

163. "Obama's team called Ferraro out, and played the race card once again"

He should apologize to her because she called him an affirmative action candidate?

Hi Hillary supporter!

[stolidus]

164. I support the Dem Ticket,...

and that would include Obama if he wins the primary. However, at this stage of the game, I am simply most comfortable pointing out that Obama is a liability come General Election time.

His team played the race card by calling unnecessary attention to Ferraro. His team should have left it the hell alone, but they saw an opportunity and exercised short-sighted judgment.

The media is going to roast Obama during the GE. Our party will lose the bid and the infighting will be the cause...

Face it...the media put Obama in this thing, the media and a few key RICH individuals...

Obama is,...well turning out to be a pain in our collective liberal asses. At this point that is how I see it.

[ProSense]

167. The Dem nominee will be Obama. This BS controvery is already showing signs of backfiring

Leading black clergy group backing Obama

This will help Obama in PA.

ABC's Ross reported Wright's 9-11 remarks -- but not that Obama disavowed them

Hillary's failed leadership skills were exposed in her handling of Ferraro's racist comments.

[stolidus]

168. Obama already has the black vote.

How much more of the black vote can he get with a group of black ministers giving him a nod? A few, sure, but how does that help? It really doesn't.

Hillary has about as much control over Ferraro as Obama has control over Wright or Farrakhan. The difference here is that Wright is Obama's mentor.

[stolidus]

169. Obama already has the black vote.

How much more of the black vote can he get with a group of black ministers giving him a nod? A few, sure, but how does that help? It really doesn't.

Hillary has about as much control over Ferraro as Obama has control over Wright or Farrakhan. The difference here is that Wright is Obama's mentor.

[ProSense]

175. He might be able to get the remaining 10% to 15% and some

other voters who see through Hillary's BS.

McCain, I'm not worried about:

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam

Rod Parsley

[stolidus]

176. On this we will agree...

There is much fodder laying about for McCain. My hope is that we do not implode before having the chance to overcome McCain.

[MojoMojoMojo]

166. Well said

[goldcanyonaz]

154. Wow, this story is all over the place.

[stolidus]

157. Indeed.

It will die down for a time but will rear its ugly head with ferocity come general election time. Guaranteed.

[stevenleser]

170. Its worse than that, its his barber and pool guy now too...

... Obama has much to answer for, there are also indications that his cat is cantankerous and his dog has ties to Afghan terrorists and heroin dealers. I have links! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071326

[alcibiades_mystery]

171. Thanks for your concern, oh guru of political savvy

That's your new thing, right? Political savvy?

:eyes:

[ruggerson]

172. it's called common sense

and there are plenty of Obama supporters saying exactly what I'm saying.

But, I realize it's so much more fun and incendiary to blame this all on "Hillbots."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5069745

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5069375


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071050

[ProSense]

173. It's called hissy fit or feigned outrage

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam

Rod Parsley

The phony Wright controversy is backfiring already, and in a crucial state PA:

Leading black clergy group backing Obama

ABC's Ross reported Wright's 9-11 remarks -- but not that Obama disavowed them

Obama will be fine! Hillary's failed leadership skills were exposed in her handling of Ferraro's racist comments.

[stevenleser]

174. No way, a former pastor, barber and pool guy? What more do you need?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5071326

[stolidus]

178. Actually,...

This is brilliant. Someone might forward this idea to Obama's team, seriously. Obama should go on Saturday Night Live and do a skit with his crazy uncle spouting all kinds of shit, you know...make it funny...that would stem this whole thing. Brilliant idea...make it funny!

Good powerful spin...love it!

[stolidus]

179. Seriously.

[ruggerson]

177. Yes, we know you're an endless font of propoganda

do you have kids? Do you follow them around the house like this shouting links at them?

[alcibiades_mystery]

180. I sdaid "Hillbots"? Really?

Where?

As for incendiary, I just think you're all a bunch of cowards, scared of the Republicans and scared to death of voters. That's why it's always some "scandal" or other that sends you into the Chicken Little routine.