Just now played the Olbermann clip on Ferraro and Clinton.

[saltpoint]

One of the best-written pieces I've seen/heard on cable news in a long time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/12/olbermann-slams-clinton-i_n_91256.html


He turns right at her and demands some answers which she clearly owes.

We'll see how she responds.

[Saturday]

1. Let's see how Obama responds. He called out Lou Dobbs.

Why not Olbermann for his negative remarks?

[saltpoint]

2. I'm not a big Lou Dobbs fan, actually.

I never did like the man.

[jmg257]

3. Obama respond for Hillary??? Doesn't make sense - her hole - let HER dig.

[Political Heretic]

30. Criticism is not wrong.

His remarks were dead on accurate

[DevonRex]

63. Why would Obama respond?

Hillary is the one who has to dig herself out of the hole she dug.

[CreekDog]

4. I just watched too, he so carefully and clearly explained the issue

that many of us have been watching for months. people like me who when I first thought I saw it happening in January and was going to vote for Hillary, started looking at the other candidates and ended up voting for and contributing to Obama. That is where Hillary's inevitability went.

Thank goodness for Olbermann. He brings to television what the blogs have brought to news. In the year 2000, there was nothing like him and no blogs out there when Bush's campaign needed to be rebutted --now there is.

[saltpoint]

5. Yes. He laid it out in pattern form, still in hard-hitting, understandable,

and undeniable clips, with supporting quotes, and in context of the long-term campaign for November.

It was top-drawer stuff.

[chimpymustgo]

6. Complete hyperbolic drama queen bullshit. I am aghast at Keith's kool-aid indulgence.

Sen. Clinton did not deserve that level of vitriol. I am saddened by this.

[CreekDog]

8. And unlike you, Olbermann explained his side with substance

You have merely brought name-calling to the table as an adequate defense.

Good luck getting anywhere with that. :hi:

[saltpoint]

9. KO established a pattern of race-baiting. He provided the quotations word

for word. He ran clips in context.

And he made concise points in deliberate and linear language challenging her to get clear of Ferraro and to disown her divisive public comments.

There was no hyperbole there at all, chimpymustgo. None.

[CreekDog]

7. Does he write that stuff himself?

It sure sounds like it. If so, that is quite a beautiful job of writing in such a short time.

To think that MSNBC had Michael Savage on after they cancelled Olbermann --now that was a testament of what was wrong with our media.

[saltpoint]

11. I believe he does. It may be run thru the legal arm at the calble HQ but

I think he is the author.

[zulchzulu]

10. I thought Keith was spot on...and don't expect any answers from Team Clinton

[saltpoint]

12. Hi, zulchzulu. Yes. He wound up with the bases clear and the ol' Sunday

fastball burned a cosmic trail over home plate.

It might be instructive to have Olbermann interview Senator Clinton privately in a group of her staff. I think it would be a lesson well learned for them.

Her staff has done her dirty this winter and she has foolishly acquiesced to their skullduggery.

[RevCheesehead]

13. Hi, Crusoe!

I've always respected and admired your opinion.

Thanks for this thread, and your subsequent responses. You bring clarity, rather than emotion to the discussion.

[saltpoint]

14. Rev! A durn fine evenin' it is when I get to see

you on these boards.

Howdy right back!

I appreciate your kind words, but lord knows it's a minority view!

All good wishes to ya!

[RevCheesehead]

15. "And also with you."

Sorry... I can't help it. :evilgrin:

:hi:

[saltpoint]

16. Much peace your way, good person.

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. you're right OC

he seemed sincerely pained and disappointed that he had to do that. Keith truly admires the Clintons. If you remember his interview with Bill, after Bill called Chris Wallace out for the rightwing hack he truly is, Keith seemed to be in awe of the former president. He took absolutely no pleasure in what he had to do tonight, but like many of us, he feels that enough is enough. I've begun to lose track of the many lines that have been crossed by Hillary and her surrogates.

Recommended....

[saltpoint]

18. Hi, Tarheel_Dem. Have to agree. I don't think he enjoyed himself.

He had the gift to bring the points to the audience but seemed to long for a set of circumstances where that wasn't necessary.

The stern but compassionate figure wielding influence for the big picture and the long term.

And he used specific points in time, specific words spoken, instead of FOX News theatrics and propaganda.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. He definitely has a gift....

I can't believe that people have turned so violently on him for his truth telling. If they would take just a moment to reflect, that's what we all loved about Keith. He doesn't mince words, and he doesn't care for deception and triangulation.

It wouldn't be wise to alienate him because although Fox News may appear to be having a love affair with Hillary right now (because the black guy scares them), Keith will be her biggest defender should she manage to snag the nomination.

[saltpoint]

24. True again. Listen. You should be running for office for godsake.

Excellent points.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. Surely you jest.........

:blush:

[saltpoint]

29. No really, for real. You are making frighteningly good sense in this thread.

At the first level it makes me trust your observations on Olbermann's piece all the more.

At second level it suggest you should consider a broader role, possibly in your state's Democratic Party.

[Tarheel_Dem]

56. ...

:pals:

[CitizenLeft]

34. I remember KO during the Monica debacle...

He was one of the very few on cable who defended Clinton - night after night after night. The hypocrisy of it all really pissed him off, and the longer it went on, the more angry he got. Saying he was against the Clintons is patently untrue. He looked, to me, pretty emotional about it, and disappointed that he had to do it.

[saltpoint]

46. Yes. The Far Right used Linda Tripp -- or Linda Tripp let the Far Right use

her, I guess -- and Starr likely enjoyed being the errand boy.

K.O. stands his ground when he rises to defend Clintons and he'll likely stand his ground here. I would hate to be someone actually debating him on points in either case.

Good point, good post, CitizenLeft.

[AnnieBW]

19. I'm with you, Tarheel

It obviously pained him to say it. It sounded more like an intervention than a Special Comment. He admires both of the Clintons and is grateful to them. That's why it's painful to watch the wheels coming off of Hillary's campaign.

Look, male or female, black, white, Latino, or Asian - if someone was running as nasty a campaign as Hillary is, I wouldn't vote for them. I don't think that we Dems need to fling mud at each other. It's so... Republican.

[Tarheel_Dem]

20. Agreed AnnieBW....

I can't understand the sudden vitriol toward Keith on this board; the board where we cheered and got choked up when he called out the Bush Administration for the many lies and deceptions that got us where we are today. Keith doesn't suffer fools lightly.

What's happening to the party right now, I could never in my wildest dreams have imagined. And I also thought I would never agree with Operation Mind Control on anything, but he's drafted a well thought out and rational o.p. calling for clear headed objectivity from his fellow Clinton supporters with regard to Ms. Ferraro's comments. Anyone who doesn't know what she meant by those remarks is willfully stubborn, or they agree with her, and I don't know which is sadder.



:hi:

[mkultra]

22. like ferraro said

these statements she made are really just attacks from the Obama campaign

[saltpoint]

23. That was quite the quotation, wasn't it.

We're almost in Alice-in-Wonderland territory there.

[mkultra]

26. i was summarizing for effect

But thats the impression her cryptic crap left me with.

[saltpoint]

27. Yes. Cryptic and more than a little disassociative.

I think Olbermann read the tea leaves perfectly.

[Samantha]

28. I carefully watched and listened to every word

I knew when I came here later I would hear opinions in support and in dispute on his Special Comment. I thought it would be important to form my own assessment before I read that of others. This is what I thought: he did an excellent job at laying out his reasoning, and supporting his facts, in coming to the conclusions he has reached. I thought his presentation was beyond reproach. He did not utter his words in an accusatory manner; he voiced his thoughts with pain as if in warning. That warning decried, in a tacit way, that the Clintons in serving their own best interests to win the White House, have thrown a race of people, prominent political personalities, ethical standards, the Democratic party as a whole, the clear opportunity to win the election, and their own personal integrity into the toilet. The warning was close to a plaintive plea to cease and desist their throwing of the kitchen sink approach at Barack lest the quest to wrestle the Oval Office from the Republicans be lost.

He took no pride, as I believe he might have said, at making his comments because of past positive experiences with the Clintons, but put his words in play to stop the bleeding. I hope the message was received by both Bill and Hillary Clinton in the manner in which I feel it was intended. It is sad to me that many of the Clinton supporters, after listening to the Special Comment, are in a state of denial as to the veracity of the comments.

Tomorrow is another day. After allowing his message to ferment for a little time, perhaps his overall theme of retracting the teeth of their message in order to work for the common goal of re-capturing the White House might register as the Big Truth to those seething in anger tonight.

Thank you for starting this thread, Old Crusoe. Always a pleasure to chat with you ...

Sam

[saltpoint]

33. Hi, Sam. That's a very close and detailed read of a complex set of

circumstances. Bravo & good on ya.

[TahitiNut]

37. I fully agree... word for word.

Indeed, Keith composed THE most pithy, succinct, balanced, and accurate commentary on this sordid behavior I could imagine. He did an enormous service to both the Democratic Party AND to Senator Clinton ... if she at all is possessed of the values and priorities she'd have us believe.

The very last person deserving of vitriol and dismissal in this entire noxious parade of gutter politics is Keith Olbermann.

Again, he has been a voice of reason and moderation.

[Swamp Rat]

39. We owe a significant amount of gratitude to Keith Olbermann.

Too bad some folks here are trashing him.

:(

[saltpoint]

49. Agree. Those trashing K.O. are accusing HIM of doing the trashing.

His points are laid out plain and clear and true and direct. We aren't hearing his trashers address any of those points.

[Swamp Rat]

50. morgen

:hangover: need coffee... no sleep

[saltpoint]

51. Morgen right back. I'd make some coffee for both of us but I'm too sleepy!

[Swamp Rat]

54. I just drank coffee concentrate

bleh! I stayed up all night doing statistical analysis, and now I have to go to classes from 9:30 am until 9 pm... I don't know how I will make it. :boring: :boring: :boring:

[saltpoint]

62. Coffe concentrate. You, sir, are a sturdy soul.

[Swamp Rat]

67. just got back

so tired... :hangover:

Watch this video Old Crusoe: http://www.republicoflakotah.com

Lakotah Unilateral Withdrawal from All Agreements and Treaties with the United States of America

We as the freedom loving Lakotah People are the predecessor sovereign of Dakota Territory as evidenced by the Treaties with the United States Government, including, but not limited to, the Treaty of 1851 and the Treaty of 1868 at Fort Laramie.

Lakotah, formally and unilaterally withdraws from all agreements and treaties imposed by the United States Government on the Lakotah People.

Lakotah , and the population therein, have waited for at least 155 years for the United States of America to adhere to the provisions of the above referenced treaties. The continuing violations of these treaties’ terms have resulted in the near annihilation of our people physically, spiritually, and culturally. Lakotah rejects United States Termination By Appropriation policy from 1871 to the present.

In addition, the evidence of gross violations of the above referenced treaties are listed herein. Lakotah encourages the United States of America, through its Government ,to enter into dialogue with Lakotah regarding the boundaries, the land and the resources therein. Please contact the Republic of Lakotah at [phone] or [e-mail].

Should the United States and its subordinate governments choose not to act in good faith concerning the rebirth of our nation, we hereby advise the United States Government that Lakotah will begin to administer liens against real estate transactions within the five state area of Lakotah.

Lakotah, through its government, appointed the following representatives to withdraw from all the treaties with the United States of America based on the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties entered into force in 1980 and the

U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples 2007:

Tegheya Kte
Heretofore known as Garry Rowland
Oyate Wacinyapin
Heretofore know as Russell Means
Mni yuha Najin Win
Heretofore known as Phyllis Young

Republic Of Lakotah P.O. Box 99 Porcupine Lakotah 57772,
http://www.republicoflakotah.com

[Swamp Rat]

31. k&r

:hi:

[saltpoint]

35. The darkest thing in this nomination battle is the dense fog around the

decision-makers in the Clinton campaign.

A week before Carolina and they yank out the race-baiting remark about Jesse Jackson to diminish Obama's profile as an independent candidate. South Carolinians previously disposed to Bill Clinton turned out in droves to reject his wife. Nice move on that one.

And one down the list through Mississippi. Ferraro has every right to defend her friend. But no right at all to sling dung. She sounded strained and incoherent. If she's really physically ill, she needs to consult her physician and take some rest. If she's well enough to race-bait on FOX News, she gets what she pays for.

Shame on that woman.


:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

38. Someone or some people are destroying Hillary's campaign from within.

Like the diabolic propagandist Karl Rove, whatever Mark Penn has touched has turned to fecal bile.

[saltpoint]

52. I'm wondering the same thing. That it's maybe an inside job. But there

would come a point when she would swoop down and sack the lot of them if she couldn't isolate the exact culprits just to preserve her chances.

But instead it got worse. South Carolina, especially -- god what a disaster. And the slapdash feel of the Clinton effort in Wisconsin. In Madison, Obama packed a 17,000 - 20,000 seat arena and her campaign booked a c. 4000-seat center. That was all the polling anybody needed to call that one for Obama.

[Emit]

32. Spot on and spittin' mad, I'd say.

Wow. I got an adrenaline rush watching that. What a message! Thanks for posting that clip, Old Crusoe.

[saltpoint]

36. Hi, Emit. I came late to the clip and missed the show altogether earlier

this evening, but when I finally caught up with it, it knocked me for a loop.

I think he wrote that piece with his whole body trembling.

Some parts anger and outrage, other parts regret and sadness.

Very potent stuff.

[mkultra]

40. you inspired me to watch the segment

I completely agree.

[saltpoint]

60. Hi, mkultra. It's a bit off-topic, but wouldn't it be great if the media

commentators were as astute and sturdy in the months leading up to the Iraq War as Olbermann is on this recent topic?

If there had been an across-the-board debate at this caliber of insight and analysis, Donald Rumsfeld would have had a far tougher time than he did, ditto Alberto Gonzales, ditto John Bolton, etc.

Olbermann has raised the bar. I hope other tv commentators take note of his work -- and of his good ratings.

[MagickMuffin]

41. I thought Keith had a huge weight on his shoulders having to televise this for the whole nation

to hear. It's really unfortunate he had to do this, to try and make some sense of it all, to try and appeal to someone within the Clinton campaign to stop the bleeding. To stop the negative and racial over/under tones that has come out of this primary.

She didn't have to go down this path, but she was told by her advisor's this was the path to travel, and she gladly decided to travel it.

Throwing the kitchen sink. Sinking to the depths that has cost her dearly. I don't think they will heed the warning. They are win at all cost, even if it damages the party. After all Billbo and Hillary will be just fine. I'm not so sure about the Democratic Party.

Since I originally supported Edwards and didn't know which candidate to support, the only logical step was to research their plans for the future of our country. Found out they were very similar.

Then it came down to listening to what they had to say. Clearly Barack's message of hope and change gave me encouragement. However, Hillary decide to use tactics that mocked, smeared and played the fear card. Not a message that appealed to me at ALL. I've always kinda had a feeling about the Clintons for a long time now that they take voters for granted. Whether they be black, white, hispanic, asian, liberals, progressive, feminist, _________________________, feel free to fill in any other number of groups, they have alienated us and taken us for granted. I mean what's a democrat, to do but vote for the nominee. Right.

I could tell how much courage it took Keith to have to do this. He knew it too. He did it with as much diginity he could muster. I'm sure it wasn't easy. I felt really bad for him, and yet I applauded him several times for the insight to the facts he had to expose. Exposing the truth for truths sake. He took no pleasure in this, as far as I could tell. I just wished rational minds could understand what Keith was trying to allude to by his SC.

Glad to add to the discourse, OC:pals: I hope I made some sort of sense, writing my thoughts down is not my strongest suit.

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. Can't speak for OC, but makes perfect sense to me MM...

I, too, feel that Keith did this with a very heavy heart. :hi:

[MagickMuffin]

43. I don't think he took any pleasure in it, Tarheel.

I'm sure Keith has a lot of friends from different races and backgrounds, I think he was probably wanting to defend them as well as everyone else who has been hurt or offended by the Clinton campaign.

I just hope Keith doesn't suffer any consequences from his SC, but I fear his mail box will be filled with quite a bit of hate mail.

I suppose we should send our love and appreciation, mail to counter balance the attack:hi:

[saltpoint]

48. MM, you add a lot. "She didn't have to go down this path," you write, and

there's a crucial point. She had just about any available strategic choice in front of her but chose this one. It wasn't the good choice, it wasn't the good fight.

It was purposely divisive and intemperate. I wish to hell it hadn't happened and from the tone of K.O.'s voice, it seems as if he wished it hadn't either.

Also your post culls a key point: K.O.'s commentary is also an appeal to the Clinton strategists to take responsibility for the divisiveness. It appeals to the very nature of political strategy. It's very effective, too. Olbermann is no slouch at words.

And neither are you. Good post.

[MagickMuffin]

64. I think if she doesn't win and tries running again

that she has blown her chances. We will remember how her campaign behaved in this election, and we won't forget it. It amazes and and bewilders me how the Clintons have taken the black voters for granted. They only got their votes with the hard work of people like Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama just to mention a couple. The very same two people who have been attacked by Ferraro.

The Clintons thought those voters BELONGED to them. Then along comes Barack who has more going for him besides the color of his skin, so they decide to attack him over his skin color. Barack has proven that he had a 50 state game plan. They didn't. They expected everyone just to come out and GIVE them their votes. I don't think they will vote for her if she is the nominee. They will stay home in droves, all that hard work Barack made in getting people excited again in the voting process, all that progress he helped make in bringing in new voters, out the window. Hell at this point and time, I don't want to vote for her, but I KNOW I won't have a choice.

It's appalling, disgusting and disappointing. :cry:

Another reason I had a problem with Hillary is the company she keeps, i.e. Mark Penn, the Karl Rove of her campaign; Howard Wolfson; Terence McAuliffe, longtime elitist within the DNC, I can't remember how many seats he won while the chair of the DNC; James Carville, married to Dick Cheney's Best Friend; and then of course her husband.

If she is such a strong woman why is she listening to all these men?.?.?

And now with all that baggage, I'm finding it very hard to even look at her or listen to what she has to say. It really saddens me because I always had an admiration for her, but not anymore, and it was all in her attitude to a fellow Democrat. Breaks my heart.

They crossed a line that never should have been crossed.

Thanks for letting me rant in your thread. You're usually the only response I get here in DU. :hug:
Sometimes a few people will reply to my posts, but they are very few, so I usually just read with an occasional post.
So, keep posting so I have someone to respond to too:hi:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

44. He makes me sick...Kieth has been bashing Hillary for months with his head so far up Obama's ass and

now insults folks intelligence with his pitifully poor overact of feigned compassion and civility towards her.

He could barely contain the Hillary hatred....I hope it eats him whole

really kind of funny
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[saltpoint]

47. On points in Olbermann's commentary, he covers the ground with

pretty sturdy boots, I thought.

And if you listened carefully to his voice and watched his face, "funny" isn't the adjuective you'd choose. As others here have posted upthread, 'pained' is far closer.

Your tv likely has a remote or channel-changer of some kind. If you don't care for Olbermann, you can always switch to something else.

[ScottS]

45. And this is why Olbermann's show is #1

[rox63]

53. He was trying to tell Clinton that she should be above this sort of attack

And that she is better than this. He said that her advisors who are fueling the attacks are ruining her campaign, and dooming her to defeat. He was not attacking Clinton. It was his attempt at an intervention, telling her that there is still time to make things right again.

[madrchsod]

55. the problem is she signs off on these attacks...

she can not play dumb to what the people on her staff are saying. she approves in one way or another what they say. they say what she can not say because it would doom her quest. if she does`t know or have control over her "people" then is she fit to run this country....

why is there/was a paid fox contributor on her staff to begin with?

[Samantha]

69. He had a message for Garcia

and was wondering if he would make it back home okay. What a hero.

Sam

[K Gardner]

57. A breath of fresh air to sign in this a.m. and find your very thoughtful and logical comments, OC !

Good thread all around.. thank you very much :-) :hi:

[saltpoint]

58. And right back atcha for adding your cool brow and keen mind to it.

I thought K.O. did himself proud yesterday and hope others will give it a fair listen.

Senator Clinton's campaign staff is supposed to be getting paid to do this level of thinking. It looks to me as if she should have hired someone of Olbermann's caliber and not the jerks she hired instead.

[K Gardner]

59. It is almost dream-like to imagine now the kind of campaign HRC COULD HAVE run, instead of the

campaign she did run. It will go down in history, no doubt. It could have been such a boon to the Democratic Party and to the nation to have two high caliber candidates discussing issues and speaking toward the future of our great nation. Unfortunately, one of them - very early on- decided on the low road. It is too late for her to recover, I think. And the scars left by her scorched earth and dirty campaign will be with this nation for a very long time. A President Obama will, however, be able to heal the rift.

It strikes me now as a cancer which has to be removed before it metastasizes, truly unfortunate. If not cut out, it will continue to spread.

[saltpoint]

61. Agree. She had a wide-open window and hired people who helped shut

it, evidently right before her gaze.

I'm not understanding that part very well, but think you are right -- the long-term prospects for our party improve by having Clinton, Obama, and Richardson in the race in addition to the white males, unlike the Pukes, who are in a kind of post-Reagan Obsessional Phase.

The Republicans are the ones in harm's way right now. The trendlines don't favor more Reagan worship, but they're at it again anyway.

[ClayZ]

65. K and R

[snooper2]

66. He is greatness...

By far the best talking head on all cable channels...by far...

Jack Cafferty should get his own show and they should deflate and throw Leslie Blitzer away...

Fuck Faux

[Scurrilous]

68. Kick

:kick: