Question: What did Kieth say about Clintons campaign that wasn't true?

[uponit7771]

I really want to know what about Kieth said tonight wasn't true about Clinton's campaign?

I do truly believe that her campaign advisers have done her an injustice.

Who are Hillary's campaign advisers that earn millions of dollars to tell her stupid stuff?

[Johnny__Motown]

1. Nothing

[sfam]

2. Negative comments about Clinton = Misogynism...but I think we all agree that...

Clinton's campaign team has truly let her down in just about all ways possible. She would have had a cakewalk to the nomination had she fielded a competent team.

[uponit7771]

7. I could see a challenge coming after the Iran vote. What the HELL was she thinking!? Now Fallon has

...resigned and the one man that we KNEW was standing in the way of attacking Iran is gone.

5 dollar gas, here we come!!

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Olberman Is Delusional

He thinks that some advisers are putting the Clintons up to this? That the Clintons are being dragged into their race-baiting by others?

Unh-unh.

The Clintons are adults - they're race baiting all by themselves.

[uponit7771]

5. I, prolly like Olberman, leave a bit in our hearts for the Clintons & I might be fooling myself but

...I going to hold out for my home girl and hope she's JUST being told stupid stuff.

[VolcanoJen]

12. He's not delusional.

He was being kind. More kind than necessary, due to the sensitivities of the candidate he was speaking to.

I'm with you, of course, and I don't think Ferraro's comments were on accident. But he was appealing to the "benefit of the doubt" crowd. Aren't too many of them left at DU, obviously. :-)

[alteredstate]

14. Lol!

[Gore1FL]

23. Her advisors are iron-clad idiots.

Who make there plan A to win 15 states and have a coronation, and not have a plan B? And after plan A fails, argue that it worked wi\hile it failed even more?

That sounds like they used the Iraq invasion as a template.

[midnight armadillo]

27. It turns out the inevitability strategy only worked with a few. A microtrend!

That's a jab at Mark Penn, incidentally, for those unfamiliar with his deep, thoughtful book "Microtrends: The Small Forces Behind Tomorrow's Big Changes" which makes the startling observation that big things start out small.

[CreekDog]

33. He was being charitable at best, but in the same paragraph explaining that it is her responsibility

and later explaining that she has allowed it to go on when she could stop it --effectively presenting that she is implicated in the worst of it yet leaving the possibility open that she could do the right thing and be thought better for it.

[AtomicKitten]

4. Nothing.

[jmg257]

6. That Clinton is being manipulated by others. I think he was nice to give her an "out".

[MannyGoldstein]

10. She Was Only Following Orders [nt]

[uponit7771]

11. Call me delusional but I'm kinda holding out for her too & praying someone was just

...telling her stupid shit...I know...I'm setting myself up for failure...It was always hard for me to break up with someone who I knew wasn't good for me.

[VolcanoJen]

15. Harold Ickes: "She's not the manager of her own campaign."

Would she be the manager of the nation, then?

Doesn't this completely shoot down her (lame) Ready On Day One argument? At face value?

[uponit7771]

18. True, if she's not managing the people who are supposed to be FOR her than what will ....

...she do when she's around the people who have other ambitions.

[cottonseed]

25. Exactly. He was commenting on the campaign.

His special commentary wasn't raking Hillary over the coals, it was more a wake up call to the campaign. That was indeed leaving her an out.

Leaving him an out too.

[jean627]

8. Whether it's the fault of their advisors or not

Don't we need a president who can recognize such stupid advice?

[uponit7771]

13. True, she's making Obama's "judgement" case for him. "...I didnt read it"!?!!!?!

My goodness!!!

[grantcart]

9. The allegation of lying was that Samantha Powers made the statement

that Clinton was a monster several days before she was fired and was not immediatley fired as suggested.

The tortured logic they use is that the time should be counted from the time that the comments were uttered and not from the time they became known.

Powers was in Ireland on a book tour when she made the statement to an obscure Irish publication. It took several days before it became known in the US. Obama fired her immediately.

Power apologized for the "monster" remarks on the night of the March 6 interview, saying that they "do not reflect my feelings about Sen. Clinton, whose leadership and public service I have long admired."<14> In the wake of reaction to the remarks, she resigned from the campaign the next day. <15> Soon afterwards, the Weekly Standard said that it "might have been the most ill-starred book tour since the invention of movable type."<16>

[uponit7771]

16. I thought she was fired soon after it was PRINTED because they thought it wouldn't

...get to the press because she said it was off the record?

I can see Obama taking some time to fire her if he didn't know about it days afterwards.

But hey, let's chalk this one up NE way

[pdxmom]

17. And Powers thought the comment was off the record. So they think

she should have come home, made the Obama campaign fire her without any knowledge of why, slapped her own hand and put herself to bed without supper because of a one-word comment that she made to a foreign newspaper and that she was off the record on.

Do they not teach logic and reasoning in school any more?

[uponit7771]

19. Right, I notice also that there aren't a lot of people addressing the quesiton. ..

...prolly cause I'm a n00b around here but o well...

[grantcart]

21. if these people possessed logic we would have our nominee

[Ravy]

20. What I am *really* saying is that Ferraro resigned a day or so after

her comments were widely known. Olbermann said it took them 15 days, he was using the time from when she said it to when she resigned. But for Powers, he said it was immediate, from the time it was widely known to the time she resigned.

So he used two different yardsticks when he said one was 15 days vs the other being immediate.

[grantcart]

29. You are either hoplessly delussional or a habitual liar

The issue of Powers has been debunked and it is supported by facts and links. She made comments on a book tour that were not reported in the US until Mar 6th and she was fired the next day on the basis of a single word "monster".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Power

Power apologized for the "monster" remarks on the night of the March 6 interview, saying that they "do not reflect my feelings about Sen. Clinton, whose leadership and public service I have long admired."<14> In the wake of reaction to the remarks, she resigned from the campaign the next day. <15> Soon afterwards, the Weekly Standard said that it "might have been the most ill-starred book tour since the invention of movable type."<16>


Geraldine Ferraro's statements were readily available from

FEBRUARY 12 ONE MONTH AGO where she made them on John Gibson's radio show. After that it was picked up by a local newspaper and worked its way to national attention. They include slurs against John Lewis and Chris Dodd. The Clinton campaign prevarcated on the subject until a few hours before they were going to get a lambasting by KO.


http://homepage.mac.com/mkoldys/blog/fyf225820059.html


Despite concrete evidence to the contrary the poster continues to spread the false allegation that KO is lying.

The poster has no shame.

[Ravy]

31. Ferraro's remarks became widely known *yesterday*.

So you can compare times from when they are widely known to resignation, or from when they were utterred to resignation (the standard Keith said he used tonight, which you called "tortured logic", I believe).

But, don't mix the two and claim to be truthful.

[grantcart]

34. Wrong again - but I ammend my choices

Article Launched: 03/07/2008 07:52:09 AM PST

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," she continued. "And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept." Ferraro does not buy the notion of Obama as the great reconciler.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_8489268?source=rss_viewed

The Ugliness Behind Ferraro's Slur
by DHinMI
Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 03:21:02 PM PDT

If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.

Yes, Clinton surrogate Geraldine Ferraro said that. Geraldine Ferraro--nominated as Vice President almost entirely because she was a woman--ridiculing Barack Obama's rise as supposedly due to his race is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

One can laugh at the ridiculousness of the statement, or ridicule the idea that African-Americans somehow have it easier in America than white men or women. But to do so misses how Ferraro's statement will be heard by too many Americans.


A good Diary from Daily Kos on this: Geraldine, He Gets Death Threats Because He's Black. by Newsie8200 Subscribe Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:02:15 PM PDT DHinMI did a solid job discussing the racist underpinnings of Geraldine Ferraro's comments. Ferraro's comments again: If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept. That's right Geraldine. If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. He would not have gotten Secret Service protection as early as last M

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Disagreeing_with_Ferraro.html
March 10, 2008
Read More: Hillary Clinton

Disagreeing with Ferraro

Between the Spitzer story, Geraldine Ferraro's own pioneering status, and the dog-bites-man character of offense-and-apology stories these days, her reported comment that Obama wouldn't be where he is if he were white didn't get all that much attention today.

I asked the Clinton campaign for a reaction, though.

"We disagree with her," said spokesman Howard




New choices a)Duplicitous b)Deceptive c)Uninformed d)Just too damn lazy to google



Every statement you have made has been refuted by a confirmed fact with a link.

[Ravy]

37. Those are dated march 7-10th. It is March 12th today

So get me 15 days out of that.

So if YOU want to count days said to resigned. Fine. Count it for Powers, too.

New Choices: a) a little slow at comprehension

[grantcart]

38. you said in the reply above that it was only known "yesterday"

how can you not read and understand what you yourself have written


You are hopelessly out of touch with what is happening in this campaign and with what is happening in our history.

Continue to sit on the sidelines and try to throw rocks at KO if you wish but please do not waste my time.

When Clinton talked about McCain there was a flood of Clinton supporters who got it.

There are similar threads tonight that are insightful and articulate that are discussing the meat of what KO is talking about

and how truthful it is and how the Clinton's have missed the boat.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5051321&mesg_id=5051321

go ahead and throw rocks at KO you are a small minded person who, every single time has made an assertion has been proven wrong

with objective facts. Don't waste any more of my time.

[Ravy]

39. Okay, *I* heard it yesterday. You maybe knew it 2 days ago, or 5. That is not 15 days as KO said.

Defend him all you want. I am no Hillary fan, but I hate it when people lie to promote their personal agendas. Republicans OR Democrats. Particularly media.

"Days said" to "days resigned" was the measure *he* said he used. You called that "tortured logic" I believe. I agree with you. *HE* used it, at least for Ferraro's comments. He should have used the same gauge for Power's comments when comparing them side by side.. or used the "days published" to resignation, or the days "widely known" to resignation. If you are comparing, you need to use the same scale.

"15 days" vs "immediate" is simply a lie. If he didn't have the resources to check it out, I would simply call it a mistake. He does.

If there hadn't been another thread claiming Olberman didn't lie, I may not have posted. There was. I did.

[Ravy]

26. My complaint was that Olbermann used what you call "tortured logic" in reporting the time

that it took Ferraro to resign. The story became headlines yesterday, she resigned today.

"The tortured logic they use is that the time should be counted from the time that the comments were uttered and not from the time they became known."

Olbermann said it took Ferraro 15 days to resign, but Samantha Powers was immediate.

[Colobo]

22. Nothing. It was beautiful and necessary.

[Barack_America]

24. Eh. It was overly dramatic, but true.

Hillary's advisers and surrogates are destroying her. I've been saying that since NH.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. All the ":charges" were MSM distortions--except for the Drudge distortion.

Reposted from another thread.

The "charges" have mostly been debunked. Media Matters debunked the Drudge charge about the 60 Minutes interview that the rest of the MSM exploited because it allowed them talk about their two favorite subjects---how Obama is a Muslim and Hillary is a Bitch. There were no racial overtones to the 3 AM ad. That was a fear ad pure and simple. She could have run that against any young person 15 years her junior. As for Clinton in South Carolina---Jesse Jackson himself said not to go there, where KO went tonight.

http://www.essence.com/essence/lifestyle/voices/0,16109 ...

Essence.com: Did you hear President Clinton’s comment yesterday in Columbia, South Carolina, after someone asked about it taking two Clintons to beat Obama, and he answered, “Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in ’84 and ‘88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here.” Many people are taking that as President Clinton’s attempt to tie Obama to you or to inject race back into the discussion.

J.J: We are tied together. Barack is the result of all the struggles, from Selma to South Carolina. They are factors in his ascendancy, which is accurate. Again, I think it’s some more gotcha politics. I did win in ’84 and ’88, and because we ran in ’84, the Democrats regained the Senate in ’86. I just think that we’ve got to be very sensitive to what I call gotcha politics and not take the attention away from student loans? The reason I keep going back to that is, kids are going to college now graduating with these $60,000 debts. You know?

Maybe KO should take a break and let Jesse Jackson run his show for a while. I like Jackson. He has a cool head, and he has always known what is good for the Democratic Party.

This was the first time that I saw KO color and distort the facts to try to prove his conclusion. It was sad, in a way. It made him sound like O'Reilly.

I was hoping he would come out and say something like "Everybody stop fighting and focus on the common enemy. If we do not fight together, we will all die together." He had a great moment to do that for the Democratic Party. And he blew it.

Now the Hillary people are going to look at the "charges" and say "Those are all bullshit. KO is so biased!"

"And the Obama people will say, yeah! KO is on our side!"

And no one will be watching Bush dismantle the Constitution. Oh joy! Everyone here does realize that the Bush administration has used the distraction of this election to do their dirty work for the last several months, right? They could invade Iran and no one in DU would care.

[blonndee]

30. I disagree. He emphsized how the comments are PERCEIVED and said "False, or true,"

this is how many people see these events/tactics throughout her campaign and appealed to values that all Democrats should share, or to better paraphrase him, perceptions and ideas about race that "ought to make every Democrat retch."

So I think that he was essentially emphasizing, as you said, "Everybody stop fighting and focus on the common enemy. If we do not fight together, we will all die together."

[Berry Cool]

35. No racial overtones in the 3 AM ad, eh?

Then how come the kids in it were white?

Just wondering.

Oh, and Jesse Jackson may have said "Don't go there" about the South Carolina comments, but of course HE can't afford to. Keith can.

[zulchzulu]

32. He assumed she has nothing to do with all of the nonsense... she does know

[HughMoran]

36. It's not what he said, it's the never-ending focus on her and lack thereof when it comes to Obama

That's the real issue. I bet you $100000 he will not do a piece like that on Obama just to show that he is not biased. And don't tell me that Obama is an angel either.

[uponit7771]

40. Has Obama's campaign told him to blow all his money before the primaries were up?!!??!