Welp, I try to be as fair-minded as I can. But tonight, Keith Olberman

[Political Heretic]

completely nailed it, to the tee. He is absolutely, completely right. And it doesn't matter whether he's an ego maniac. It doesn't matter whether or not he melodramatic. The transcript of his words is all that matters, and they are dead. on. accurate. Every single one of them.

There are two things during this campaign that I will never, ever be able to forgive the Clinton camp for. Only two.

--Not the 3am Ad - that was fair political hardball, even though her point was silly
--Not faux-anger tirade about Ohio mailers - that was fair political theater, even though her claims were false or exaggerated
--Not equivocating and leaving room for uncertainty around the question of whether or not she thinks Obama is a Christian or Muslim - even though that was pretty sad and low
--Not condescending, insulting, mocking sarcasm toward Obama supporters she characterized as mindless and stupid - its political hardball
--Not her choice for a "kitchen sink" strategy of negative attacking in and of itself - politics is hardball.

No, the two things I will never ever be able to forgive Hillary Clinton and her campaign for are:

1) Saying that even John McCain would be a better qualified choice for President over a fellow democratic candidate for President, breaking the final sacred rule in party politics and handing the GOP a complete arsenal of ammo to use against EITHER democratic candidate in the general.

2) Being completely complicit and deftly "allowing" Geraldine Ferraro to make utterly inappropriate, racist, divisive, and ridiculous comments over and over again for over two weeks without any serious condemnation, denouncement and rejection or apology on Clinton's part.

Those two things are so disgusting, and I've never been more ashamed by any democrat in my life. No, that's not true - people will bring up Democrats like Zell Miller or Liberman. The difference is, I knew they were democrats in name only. I didn't feel so BETRAYED by them.

Clinton is selling out the party, selling out her soul, selling out dignity, and selling out anything or anyone who gets in her way with absolutely zero thought about the good of the country or the good of the party all because SHE wants to WIN for her. And that's precisely what we don't need in a leader.

I am beyond disgusted at this point.

[Saturday]

1. Baloney. nt

[Political Heretic]

5. That's the best you can do.

There's nothing (truthful) more substantive that can be said in defense.

[Ian_rd]

64. Yes it's the best they can do.

I've said it a dozen times and it's been proven right hundreds: Clinton has become so indefensible that her remaining supporters have been reduced to hollow one-liners, and completely irrelevant, substance-free, obtuse proclamations.

Browse the threads. Any substantive critique of Hillary's campaign or support of Obama is met with the following:

1. Any criticism of Hillary is now oppression of women.
2. Any praise of Obama is mindless cultism.
3. Everyone is stricken with irrational and mysterious Hillary Hatred, which can only explain her dwindling support.
4. They pretend that Hillary can still win, while not having the courage to admit that they WANT her to steal it from the will of the voters with superdelegates.

They have nothing but shouts and screams now. Their bag is exhausted. All they have left is the self-satisfaction of scorched earth that will propel McCain and Romney into war with Iran. Even as the bombs start to fall next year, they'll scream: "SEE! You should have let Hillary be president!"

[nealmhughes]

84. The rats shriek loudest and scramble faster as the sinking ship engulfs them with water.

The entire "you hate Hillary because she is a strong woman" is getting mighty tired mighty fast.

Actually, I doubt many hate her at all; however, many find much to oppose in her votes and her methods. Many Democrats find "triangulation" to be noxious. Many have memories like elephants and recall IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, and Feinstein-Leahy votes for example. Many wonder why insurance companies have a role in reorganizing health care payment from the get-go. Health insurance is interstate commerce and Congress can regulate it any way Congress chooses.

Personally, Mrs. Clinton's gender is the least of my opposition to her candidacy and a definite "don't even go there" declaration for me. I am tired of Democrats providing nominal opposition to the Bushzeit -- if not tacit support.

There is more than one civil war in the Democratic Party, and the Edwards candidacy exposed the open rift, the apologies for Mrs. Clinton's votes and words spread the rift even further. Her candidacy only enables the Repbublican candidates, and heaven help the US military were Pappy McCain get ahold of the war power (Congress has seemingly abrogated it sole responsibility to declare and fund war) and one can only imgaine the federal judges that would come down the nomination pike under Pappy.

[sallyseven]

92. Your post is disgusting.

Just remember dingbat Hillary is running neck and neck with obama. He has not nailed it no matter what the MSNBC groupies think. Cult is about right for obama. MSNBC has lost this viewer for the duration.

[DarienComp]

108. Way to prove his point.

All bluster, no substance.

[youngharry]

136. sallyseven

sallyseven,
if you were really a KO watcher, you would agree with everything the man says is this editorial about your candidate, IF YOU DON'T THINK LINES WERE CROSSED, THEN IT SHOWS THAT YOU ARE MORALLY AN INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST. YOU HAVE NO PARAMETERS OF DECENCY AND ARE DEVOID OF INTEGRITY.

[walldude]

17. Yes we Obamaites all understand that Hillary supporters

think we shouldn't have opinions. We get it. You're "opinions" are facts and ours are "baloney". We get it. There is no need to keep repeating it. Makes you look.. off balance.

[postulater]

71. Clinton's just another brick in the wall.

[gtar100]

74. More troll bait.

n/t

[George II]

118. That's all we'll be able to afford to eat if things don't change quickly!

[ooglymoogly]

133. It is not balony, you did not taste it...it is paper thin prociutto and sun warmed brie on

toasted cabata bread with a nice chilled Comte Du Chasse. You clearly have no taste or style. Maybe you should borrow some from Olberman

[LSK]

138. you dont say BALONEY without giving reasons for it

State your case. Grow the fuck up. Baloney is what a 4 year olds when he/she doesn't their way.

[Lucinda]

2. Jesse Jackson III

[FrenchieCat]

3. You are correct,

as was he.

[ScottS]

55. YES HE IS! And so is KO.

[Kittycat]

4. Giving you a rec for Support.

Ignore the sore losers.

[ossman]

6. I hate the dramatic facial shit he does during these, but he did nail it. As usual.

[renate]

58. yup... I usually can't watch his special comments because of the drama

Or I watch them between my fingers between they seem a little over the top and I'm embarrassed for him because I like him. (I'm sure he's sincere, but the way he addresses Bush as "you, Mr. Bush" as if Bush would watch KO in a quadrillion years, is a little excessive.)

But I thought he was extremely balanced in this one. As a journalist he didn't show his cards (I'd be pretty amazed if he turned out to be a secret Hillary supporter, but at least he hasn't come out and endorsed Obama), but he went out of his way to blame Hillary's advisers and not Hillary for what's happened with her campaign.

[cameozalaznick]

91. renate - is that the om mani padme hum prayer wheel?

[C_U_L8R]

7. Through all the handwringing and namecalling

there's one thing no one can deny.. Keith is right on the issue.
The naysayers and apologists might avoid it, dodge it, bend it, whine about it
but they cannot refute it. The reason Keith wins is that he arms up with the truth.

[tripitaka]

76. yes. but fact is, KO won't call OB out on *his* BS

That's the beef that folks have with KO these days.

If he were equally critical of both campaigns, he'd still have his viewers.

You have to be a stone cold fool not to know what was up with Obama's whole "tearing up," "getting dramatic", etc. What OB has been doing is worse in that it's harder to see. It's insidious. It plays to cognitive bias, the sort of discrimination that's as hard to get rid of as a cancer. Clinton's racism is so hamfisted it evokes incredulous laughter more than anything else.

And no special comment on Rezko? Give. Me. A. Freakin. Break. If Rezko were Bush's buddy, KO would have spent approximately 20 hours and 5 special comments on it by now.

There's a reason I was all-in for Edwards, and why I'm so freakin depressed these days. 2008 was supposed to be a good year.

[EnviroBat]

77. Yeah, laughing is all you can do when your candidate

is such a miserable sellout. She's played her hand, she's done.

[tripitaka]

82. "your candidate"?

If HRC is the nom, I'm either not voting or voting for McCain. If BO is the nom, I might vote for him, if he cleans up his act in the next few months. HRC is irredeemable, there's nothing she can do at this point to regain my respect other than declare "Samantha Power was right, I really am a monster, I hereby withdraw from this race in shame and humiliation." At that point I might respect her again.

I hope I misunderstood your short comment. I hope you're not viewing the entire universe through the prism of your candidate of choice and simply assuming that I back HRC since I won't endorse bullshit that helps BO. That's the mindset that has us in the hell we're in. That's the mindset that got us into the partisan era we're in.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

113. Sorry, there just isn't a Rezko story

Rezko – a total non-issue

Every time Hillary Clinton bungles her response to serious personal questions, two spin whines continuously spew both from her mouth and the mouths of her supporters:
"But what about Rezko?"

Why isn't this news? The answer is pretty simple.

Contrary to Hillary’s whine of "But he hasn’t been VETTED," he HAS. Years ago, and by all of the major Chicago media.

So why won't The New York Times or the Washington Post run nasty headlines, ask the Clinton folk?

Simple. They’ve looked. There just isn’t a story. Twenty-one questions. Publicly asked by the Chicago Sun-Times and publicly answered by Senator Obama IN NOVEMBER 2006 – nearly two years ago. No news here.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/124171,CST-NWS-obama05.article

"But there has to be dirt," cry the Clinton fans, "KO didn't mention REZKO." Nope. A casual acquaintanceship, one of the most vetted real estate transactions in Chicago history, and no ties to Rezko problems. "Darn. Keep digging. We must find dirt."

So two years after-the-fact and two solid months of Clinton spin trying to make people buy this as a story, even the seller of the Obamas new home, a respected doctor from The University of Chicago and now Johns-Hopkins, not in the political world, forgoes his personal privacy and releases both his name and and the formal sales contract. "No dirt. Sheesh, we must find dirt. Keep digging."

The follow-up vetting was also comprehensive, both in the traditional media and blogged by serious political bloggers. Capitol Fax has this to say in a concise summary:
http://thecapitolfaxblog.com/2008/02/19/rezko-angles-and-super-delegates-list/

The bottom line is that even though this was one of the cleanest real estate deals ever, Senator Obama said it was "boneheaded" of him to have any dealings close to Rezko, even if his wife owned the vacant lot next door. Two years ago. End of story.

The contrast between Senator Obama and Hillary Clinton is huge. Senator Obama makes clear-cut statements and moves on. Ok, he says he was "boneheaded." Support him or not, it was honest, up-front, and clear.

Then there is Obama on Samantha Power. "I won’t tolerate it on my campaign." End of story.

Hillary Clinton set the standard for dealing with obnoxious and even unsolicited supporter comments in the last National TV Debate. "Denounce" is not good enough, her opponent must both "denounce and REJECT" such unsolicited support.

It is Hillary's personal candidate standard to which we must hold her. Until she uses the same words she herself demanded to Eliot Spitzer and Geraldine Ferraro, she is disingenuous.

Hillary Clinton needs to both "denounce and reject" each of these individuals. "Well, umm, its unfortunate..." just doesn’t cut it. Nor does "but I feel sorry for the family..."

Nor does swiftly erasing both unworthy suporters from her website qualify either. If she wants to whine "But what about Rezko?" when making her rejection, so be it.

[leftcoastie]

96. For those that haven't seen KO

interviewed by Bill Moyers, this might give you a little more insight:


http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/12142007/profile.html

[MonkeyFunk]

8. Nothing really fair-minded about it

if you already dislike Clinton, you'll agree with Olberman. If you support her, you won't.

[NDambi]

9. I saw a few Clinton supporters here say that he got it right on the substance part..

[uponit7771]

10. Pray tell, what did KO say that wasn't true? Thank you in advance.

[blue sky at night]

11. so it's that simple for you......

i really feel sorry any dem that can sit down and stomach what hillary's camp has been up to, and to say it's just because we don't like her that she is wrong....man, i guess there really is no fucking hope for this fucked up country is there?

[MonkeyFunk]

28. and obviously,

I think the same thing about Obama supporters. Vive la difference.

[LiberalLovinLug]

61. Thats the problem

It's not about the supporters
It about the candidates. Whatever some shmoe supporter says from either camp is water under the bridge. You don't vote for the president of your country by what degree of perceived unfairness or vitriol is spewed from some faceless blogger, do you? Really?

It should be about the behavior of the candidate and their advisers. And how can you honestly defend Hillary's behavior, and how can you say Obama has behaved anywhere near as bad?

[MonkeyFunk]

66. I do so easily and proudly

The smear machine against Clinton this campaign is just as strong as it as in the 90s. The echo chamber has just moved over to the left.

The fact is, the Clintons aren't racists, and haven't said or done anything racist, but team Obama has pushed that lie for months.

Frankly, I don't understand how anybody can defend Obama's behavior.

[D23MIURG23]

69. Here, have another look

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept." -Geraldine Ferrarro

[MonkeyFunk]

72. and your point?

Clinton didn't say that. Ferraro did, and Clinton rejected it, and Ferraro is gone.

But she had to do that. The fact is, though, that people are running around like they're on fire without understanding what was being said, and assigning another meaning to it.

I don't care to argue the whole thing because I know arguing nuance here is a lost cause - people want their debate in black and white, good and evil. It's mindless.

[futureliveshere]

87. Some more gems from Ferraro

A year back, in the NYT GF said "I think it’s more realistic for a woman than it is for an African-American,” said Ms. Ferraro. “There is a certain amount of racism that exists in the United States — whether it’s conscious or not it’s true.”

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/03/flip-flop-sham.html

This flip-flopping is crazy.

[itcfish]

104. That's the Point, Thank you

Everything everyone does is blamed on Hillary. I heard people saying that Hillary knew about Spitzer too. The bias in DU is getting really out of hand.

[Pawel K]

128. Obviously you are the one that doesn't seem to understand the point

the point is that yes, what Ferraro said was bad, even Clinton admitted this. What Keith point out last night was that it took 2 weeks for her to be taken off the campaign, and she was not forcefully removed, she resigned. You didn't watch what olbermann said, did you?

[The Doctor.]

81. That's not 'thinking'.

You see, People who criticise Clinton have serious and substantive reasons for doing so.

People who criticise Obama have very little relative cause for doing so.

You are like the Bush-bots that assume all criticism of Bush is "irrational" simply because they would rather remain ignorant of his transgressions.

[sallyseven]

93. I believe that your 100% wrong.

Your not thinking with the brain god gave you. Obama is not as wonderful as some cultist would have you believe. I want a president not a motivational speaker without plans.

[The Doctor.]

127. Why think when you can believe... right?

You see, he does have plans. Your ignorance of them doesn't mean they don't exist. Both candidates have plusses and minuses in their plans, perhaps if you studied them you'd realize that support for Obama is plenty thoughtful.

Believe what you want, I choose to think.

[bling bling]

30. i feel your frustration....

believe me. my only solace is knowing how many of us are angry and frustrated with this shit.

[greyghost]

47. That sums it up.

[JTFrog]

59. Well that was ignorant. n/t

[D23MIURG23]

68. And if you maintain your critical thinking you will be able to evaluate

the merit of the arguement based on its actual strength. I'm always surprised by the number of people who take a true-believer approach to their candidates.

[MADem]

12. Well, she didn't say that McCain would be a "better qualified choice" so I stopped reading at that

point. I won't continue, because that Big Lie was a showstopper.

Go back and actually look at what she said. She NEVER said McCain would be "better qualified." EVER.

You apparently have made your self-righteous decision based on MADE UP SHIT.

Great job!

[Berry Cool]

39. Oh, just because she didn't use those EXACT words, it isn't what she meant?

OK, if you're going to get anal about the EXACT WORDS:

"He will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Sen. Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002." THOSE are the VERY WORDS she used.

Now, how are we to interpret them, other than that she was saying that McCain had a "lifetime of experience" and Obama had a speech?

You know damn well what that implied. It implied that McCain was BETTER QUALIFIED. Regardless of the WORDS USED.

And if you can't admit to that, you're being a disingenuous ass.

[jgraz]

56. Parsing -- the last refuge of a Clinton apologist.

God, if there's anything about the Clintonistas that I won't miss, it's the constant, disingenuous, fucking parsing.

[apocalypsehow]

13. Excellent post, K & R.

n/t.

[laugle]

14. Talk about faux outrage......

Clinton is doing what her supporters want her to do, stay in the race and fight to win.

Sorry Keith, but your bias is showing. Why not give equal time to the cheap shots on both sides?

Or maybe you should calm down before you write those "special comments," we ALL use to love................

[Political Heretic]

19. For a simple reason. As much as you'd like it to be otherwise, there ARENT equal cheap shots

from both sides. That's the plain truth of it.

[laugle]

23. I never said it was equal, I said give equal time!

I'm not sitting here keeping score. I'd much rather we discussed the horrific issues the next president will face.

I remember when we use to do that, but now it's just become a sewer......

[Political Heretic]

40. You don't give "equal time" to an un-equal reality.

Sorry.

If you do that, you are distorting the news. If someone does something 1,000 times and someone else does something 1 time, and you report it as if "both sides" are doing the same thing - you're distorting the truth.

The Clinton campaign is the one that has, by its own admission, adopted the "kitchen sink" strategy, and they should be grow-up enough to accept the media criticism and scrutiny that is going to naturally come with that approach.

It's not that they don't cover Obama crap - its that he gives them little to run with. When a senior campaign staffer calls Clinton a monster, the SAME DAY, she resigns, and he comes out and apologizes. No STORY. Clinton makes things a story because she DOESNT WANT to just categorically reject smears and garbage that come on her behalf - she likes them "out there." She doesn't apologize (until several news cycles later, and then it is a non-apology apology,) doesn't end the news cycle, and then wonder why her campaign gets more criticism and scrutiny.

It's not rocket science, folks.

What KO is pissed about, is that he believes Clintonian tactics are hurting the party, and hurting the democrats changes in the fall. At one point he came out and said it on air: Please, for god's sake PICK A NOMINEE. It isn't Obama love - its destest for what he feels is going to cost us the general election. The candidate that is behind in delegates, behind in the popular vote, behind in states won, behind in head to head matchups against the republican nominee, behind in most current polls of who democrats believe to be more electable, and behind in campaign fundraising, REFUSES TO STAND ASIDE and instead launches a scorched earth, divisive, destructive assault that is whittling away at our chance in the general - a general that SHOULD HAVE BEEN A SHOE IN.

That's what I believe he feels. And I can't blame him.

[sybylla]

83. Totally agree, PH

You've got it right on all counts. It isn't rocket science.

[think4yourself]

129. Well said.

You summed it all up and I think Olberman really respects and likes Hillary. She has just listened to bad advice and Obama has run a classy campaign. I mean firing someone for calling her a "monster"? Looks like he's ready to lead on day one.

[grasswire]

88. baloney (n/t)

[Cha]

24. Your pandering to racist comments is showing and

throwing out red herrings isn't fooling anyone but the hilarys.

[laugle]

31. No I think it's you

that's racist.....the knife cuts both ways............

end of story......discussion abated......

[FlyingSquirrel]

29. I wonder how many of Clinton's supporters support those two things.

If they do, I wonder how they can defend it.

[itcfish]

106. Keith Will Never Be

critical of Obama. He would be labeled a dirty racist if he did. Let's get real. It ain´t gonna happen

[greyghost]

125. It's not just Keith that's the problem.

[The Doctor.]

130. "Clinton is doing what her supporters want her to do..." ?!?

You want her to promote Republicans over Democrats?

There's something wrong with her supporters.

[Major Hogwash]

15. I was surprised that Ferraro said this first in February and then repeated it several times.

As if it somehow was going to filter down and make everything better after Hillary's poor showing at the ballot box after February 5th.

[JTFrog]

60. Actually she said it first in 1988 about Jackson. And after Bill's reference to Jackson, it

hardly seems like an accident.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

16. As my dad would say: KO was "dead balls on."

[Cha]

27. He did show some courage

calling out the clinton machine on the cable show. Did hilary apologise before or after Keith's special comment?

[writes3000]

18. I'm furious about those same two things...

But I believe that Hillary is better than that stuff. These were weak moments. Obama has had some, too.

[sniffa]

20. He didn't sound angry as he usually does during his Comments

He seemed downright hurt/betrayed, and he was pleading with Clinton. Not what I expected.

[Mooney]

33. That was my take on it too.

He seemed kind of shocked and heartbroken.

[VolcanoJen]

35. He was holding back, for certain. He was rather uncharacterisically restrained.

Not sure I spelled that long-ass word correctly, but yes, sniffa, I agree with you.

He was pleading with her. He was reaching deaf ears.

[bagimin]

21. I agree with your two points.

These are just indefensible.

[Cha]

22. hilary wants to keep crossing over into karl rove

territory to steal the election..someone had to come out and call her on her shite. Thank Goodness there's Keith Olbermann in the m$$$m.

[laugle]

54. Spell Check is your

friend, you might want to try it!!

[FlyingSquirrel]

25. 31 recs in 41 minutes....

At this rate I expect 300+ recs

Sorry. I'll go back to my other numbers.

:hide:

[SoonerPride]

26. Proud 2K&R

Bravo.

[shadowknows69]

32. Those are two biggies for me

Hillary's trying really hard to make me want to stay home if she's the nominee. I prefer to get fucked over by the enemy than those supposed to be friends.

[suston96]

34. Both your "things" are wrong,,,,

She never said McCain would be a better choice. Your point would be more forceful if you quoted her exact words.

And, Geraldine Ferraro's comments are not racist. The black support for Obama is immense and in party primaries it is a powerful aggregate force. If Obama was white he wouldn't have all that support. That's not racist. That is validated by election demographics for each and every primary election thus far.

(In Mississippi,) Obama had 61 percent of the vote, compared with Clinton's 37 percent.

The state's Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines, exit polls indicated.

As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.

www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/11/miss.primary/index.html


Face it: anything, I say ANYTHING negative about Obama is screeched as racist on this board and everywhere else.

Ferraro's statement, taken out of context, btw, is validated by election demographics reports after each election and based on exit polls.

Obama owes where he is during the primaries on the massive (90%) black turnouts.

[VolcanoJen]

36. Obama owes where he is in the primaries due to the black vote?

Obama has received about 60% more votes from whites than from African-Americans, judging by composite exit polls from every contest thus far.

:shrug:

[suston96]

37. For example, in Mississippi 70% of the Democrats are black. In a primary this is huge. nt

[VolcanoJen]

43. For example, states don't exist in a vacuum.

Obama has received 60% more votes from whites than African-Americans, nationwide, thus far. Them's the facts.

We're a country, the United States, remember?

[Political Heretic]

44. Yes yes! You're my wingman... wingperson.... er.... yeah :)

[VolcanoJen]

45. I'll be your wingchick any day.

/flirt

[Political Heretic]

48. yes! Wingchick! Huzzah!

[bvar22]

51. Obama WON in Idaho, Utah, Iowa, and Wyoming .....

It must have been "The Black Vote".

:eyes:

[rambler_american]

62. And Blacks overwhelmingly

voted for Obama in Vermont. Both of them.

[ColesCountyDem]

80. LOL!

:P

[suston96]

90. And how many of those states you mentioned will Obama carry in the general?

Check 2000 and 2004 electoral maps and you will see that the Republican candidate nibbled away at the electoral total with most of those states carried by Obama in the primary, including most if not all those you mentioned above. I repeat compare primary elections with the general at great risk.

In the Democratic primaries the black vote was the main reason for where and how Obama finds himself to date. A regular if not dependable 90% margin over Clinton. There is no denying that.

That's what the election demographics are saying. That's what Ferraro was saying.

[Major Hogwash]

101. More than Hillary - because she won't be the nominee. Not now. Not ever.

Her career is over. She might as well go back to the Senate and wait to retire.
It's over for her.

The Clinton era is Over!

[suston96]

111. That didn't answer my question. Wanna try again? How many of the states Obama carried.....

....will he carry in the general IF he is the nominee?

[greyghost]

124. Don't bet the farm on it, answer the question.

[sybylla]

85. Yeah, he won Wisconsin fer crissakes

Outside of Milwaukee and Madison, it's the whitest fucking state in the union. And he won big-time in those whitest parts.

Up until a few years ago when the latest Hmong arrivals came here, Rep. Dave Obey's congressional district was the whitest in the nation according to census data.

The ignorance of the anti-Obama fanatic appears limitless.

[Political Heretic]

42. Both your objections are wrong.

Clinton said, I have vast experience, McCain has vast experience, Obama doesn't. The only way you can try to spin that as not saying McCain would be a better choice than Obama is if you believe that she saw experience as a detriment, something that disqualifies someone from being president.

Since her entire campaign has been based on the value of "experience" and since she made the statement about herself as well, its impossible to suggest that.

So yes, she did say McCain was a better choice for President than Obama.

Second, Ferraro's comments are right out of the David Duke playbook. Saying that Obama is lucky to be a black man, saying being a black man is the variable without which he would not be where he is right now, is not only a racist statement, by basic definition of racism - its also absolutely absurd.

I hate to break this to you, but overall to date, Obama voters are majority white. Shocking huh? Yup he wins huge majorities of the black vote - the black vote still being a minority in this country. Overall the majority of his voters are white. To win a majority of white voters, there is nothing about being a black man named Barack Hussein Obama that is accurately characterized as "lucky."

And the incideous racism of the comment is the trivialization of all other factors - his intellect, his leadership qualities, his charisma, his ability to inspire, his extraordinarily well run campaign, his masterful fund raising skill, his incredibly well-structure ground teams and organization - saying that none of that matters - if he wasn't a black man, he would be nowhere.

That's racist, period.

To then come back after that and start defending those comments by appealing to "white racism" is a direct quote lift from David Duke and patently ridiculous.

So... try again.

[greyghost]

50. AMEN

[Teaser]

70. Her statement wasn't taken out of contest

Because she repeated it in every context available. Wehn that happens, the meaning of the words is explicit, and does not rely on context.

[mcollier]

134. Let's not be shortsighted...

We didn't hear anything about "Race" when Obama won in states like Iowa, Nevada, Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Delaware, Idaho, Kansas, Minnesota, North Dakota, Utah, Nebraska, Washington, Maine, Wisconsin, Vermont, and Wyoming...

I believe these states and others do matter.

Contests so far - 30 for Obama / 14 for Clinton


Take a look at the state by state breakdown - http://origin.barackobama.com/resultscenter /

The relentless attempt of the "Powerful" to create distraction, separation and division by use of racial suggestion is the oldest tool in the art of war against ordinary people. Rise above this, look to something new, something better, something real, something good.

Recognize the ability of Barack Obama to bring people of all backgrounds together for the betterment of our Country and our World...

Unfortunately, the same tool of racism is being used to try to destroy what we see can be....

Vote for Barack Obama, but for what he represents, his message, his wisdom, his intellect, his judgment, his commitment to helping every American. We can all be a part of strenghtning American had charting a new course.

Visit www.BarackObama.com Find out how you can join the movement.

Thanks.

[Berry Cool]

38. Wow, yet another person sees the light.

Or acknowledges it, anyway. K&R.

[lonestarnot]

41. K & R

[AtomicKitten]

46. K&R

:thumbsup:

[DearAbby]

49. K&R

:thumbsup:

[CoffeeCat]

52. Superb post....

....definitely in my DU top 5.

You were very articulate and measured in what you said. I'm so glad you said it!

Your subsequent posts in this thread have been just as informative and spot on.

You rock!

Happy to K&R. :)

[RiverStone]

53. BIG K& R!

I have been a Democratic voter for all 30 of my "voting years" and I have also never been so disgusted with the actions of a fellow Dem. She is so overtly putting her need to win over the good of the party - damn good thing Keith has freedom to speak the truth as he sees it - and as I see it too.

[ellisonz]

57. K & R

[Perry Logan]

63. I love Keith. But he often overreacts. Ferraro could sue him for calling her racist.

[sybylla]

86. Whose overreacting?

Watch the video again. Keith didn't call her a racist. He said her words were racist. There's a difference.

And even if he called her a racist, slander cases are almost impossible to win in this country as everyone has a right to their opinion.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. Not if it's true. Absolute defense.

[rucky]

65. I'm actually okay with the end result of Ferraro's resignation.

If they want to resolve the matter privately, that's fine.

[pjt7]

67. The question Hillary has to be asked over & over

is will she bring down the democratic party or support it in 2008?

There is no other question.

[rucky]

75. She did say today that she hopes her supporters vote for Obama...

if he becomes the nominee.

Of course the better alternative to today's damage-repair is to NOT DO DAMAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

[yellerpup]

73. I completely agree.

And feel sad that a campaign with so much promise has been brought so low. I never expected to feel betrayed, but that is how I feel too. K&R.

[ORDem]

78. K&R n/t

:kick:

[cooolandrew]

79. You excuse a lot, well it is forgiving. I think mocking voters is odd not a vote winner.

[Political Heretic]

89. kick

[trevjr]

94. I have learned here

that racists do not think they are racist. How people can gloss over Ferraro's comments is beyond me. Even Buchanan's racism came out by him saying her comments were fine because they are true. Look at all the 'white' states that Obama won and that blacks are only 11% of the population. I have also learned that just because you have 1000+ posts in here does not mean you have any more sense than anyone else.

[ajamo]

98. Clinton/ Obama or should I put it Obama/Clinton

I didn't get the Chance to vote for Obama, I live in Michigan.
I did get to vote uncommitted. I hope they come back with a new vote, I'll put my monies on Obama to win.
How many times have we all heard the Democratic Party rave on to get our country back.
Clinton has been part of the old school for years, you think she will give us back our country?
Obama on the other had is saying that the constitution will abide and he will open the doors of government to honesty.
That my friends is getting our country back.

[Annoyingly Logical]

95. K & R

I think KO was totally right to go all Edward R Murrow on Hillary.

Just a quick question. Obama and HRC supporters weigh in please.

What is Hillary's objective with this scorched earth policy?

--Does she think the general election is so winnable by the democratic candidate, that all the divisiveness she is putting forth won't make a difference?

--Does she think that she is just "fighting hard"?

or

--Is she pretty much resigned to the fact that the primary math is against her? That being the case, is she performing the hatchet job on Obama to allow McCain to beat him in November? (The accompanying thought with this possibility being, that she sees Grampa McCain as a definite one-term president, which would allow her to run again in 2012)

Talk amongst yourselves.

[JBoy]

97. One more K&R. Well said.

[List left]

99. I would

recommend if i had enough posts.

Great post.

[golddigger]

100. Bullshit, keith has jumped the shark.

[greyghost]

122. He sure as hell did.

[itcfish]

102. You are an Obama Supporter

So how can you claim to be objective? Please if Keith had dissed Obama you would be screaming bloody murder.

[Annoyingly Logical]

110. Dissed?

KO didn't "diss" Hillary. He asked her to tidy up her act for the sake of the party.

Olberman nor anyone else has asked Obama to do likewise because his act isn't dirty, and it isn't aversely affecting the Democratic party's chances in November.

I have been a Clinton supporter since '91 but the nations hopes are not bound to her success. The nations future depends on getting competent, forward-thinking Democratic leadership in the Whitehouse, Senate, and House of Representatives. This is something that Hillary's divisive, win-at-all-costs gaming is making more difficult by the day.

[golddigger]

115. "His act isn't dirty?" Sharing the same stage with that vile piece of shit McClurkin.

And Obama's not trying to win at all costs? You must be swimming in the land of koolaid.

[dbmk]

139. He wasn't even asking for the sake of the party

But decency in general. Of which he of course sees the Democratic party being the supposed protector. And he clearly sees her as failing that, perceived or not, promise.

And rightly so.

[greyghost]

123. AMEN

[Political Heretic]

142. I didn't claim to be objective.

I said I try to be fair-minded.

Anyone, regardless of who they support, can try to do that.

[tomreedtoon]

103. Didn't anyone in Clinton's organization see this?

That's what bothers me. Clinton is supposedly the candidate of the Democratic Leadership Council. She is the favorite of the "business" wing of the Democrats.

If they knew this kind of thing was coming, and had a conscience about it, they should have stopped it in its tracks. I'm not seeing that. (Although as we all know, a lot of people have resigned from the Clinton campaign for "unexplained reasons" in the last month.)

The DLC isn't rising up in anger about this. Perhaps there are a lot of people under the big tent who didn't learn the lessons about racism that the rest of us learned in grade school.

[Butch350]

105. Your Just pissed...

93." I believe that your 100% wrong.
Your not thinking with the brain god gave you. Obama is not as wonderful as some cultist would have you believe. I want a president not a motivational speaker without plans."
sallyseven

Not just a motivational speaker, he has the whole package. Just get over it!
I think your just pissed because he does have the whole package.

[itcfish]

107. Blinded is What You Are.

Most Obama supporters are members of the "Cult"

[golddigger]

116. He doesn't have shit. He swipes other people's WORDS! Hell he agrees

with Hillary 80% of the time because he has no idea's of his own. He just a preacher running for president. Yeah WORDS right? To bad he can't think of any words of his own.

[cornermouse]

109. Boy howdee. Look at all the empty slots on this list.

Err, plus one more.

[RememberWellstone]

112. Panty sand?

Remove them, shake them and try again. That was a wasted, hyperbolic post.

[Vilis Veritas]

114. I find it quite interesting that Rush

supports Geraldine Ferraro and the fact that it is her that is being discriminated against. She is the victim. I don't know about you guys, but the last person I want in my corner is Rush the Oxy-moran...and if I ever do find him in my corner, please feel free to rip my frigging keyboard from my hands and whack me on the head.

I will not link it, because I refuse to go and find it...I heard it in a car this morning of which I had no control over the radio knob.

Excuse me whilst I go bath...and hurl...or both.

edited for spelling...

[golddigger]

117. "Had no control over the radio knob." Yeah right. Maybe next time you'll

think twice before getting in a car that has Rush playing on the radio.:silly:

[Vilis Veritas]

135. Excuse me?

I was passing on information.

Your comment was just plain ignorant.

[mckara]

119. As the Clinton Titanic Races Toward an Iceberg...

Obama looks, acts, and sounds presidential.

Hillary leads the Gang that Can't Shoot Straight---how republican of her!

[krkaufman]

120. I think you do a good job of separating SOP ugly politics from the repugnant

Although, I would have included the '60 Minutes' obfuscation in the more repugnant grouping, as it wasn't just a simple political attack against Obama, but also a propagation of race-based politics that hits and hurts a far wider audience than just Obama.

[elixir]

121. Oh, come on, think harder. There must have been other democratic candidates that you've been more

ashamed of than Hillary. So many to choose from.

[Political Heretic]

144. None I feel more betrayed by. As I said.

[Grinchie]

126. The Hilary Trolls amaze and amuse me

I am in amazement as what motivates them to actually comment negatively on KO, and vow to never watch MSNBC again. Not only is it a self destructive response, as they now stick their head in the sand, or become the proverbial "Mad TV Lancome Lady" going "La La La La I can't hear you".

That is not productive, its a sign of capitulation and retreat.

These people actually realize that the people they care about are in reality "Monsters", but they suppress the anger and manifest irrational self destructive behavior on themselves or their peers.

Alternatively, they could just be Ditto heads paid to be Trolls. Either way, they are laughable, pathetic and need help.

[kotsu]

132. Good thing

that KO set your fair minded self in the right direction. Must have been confusing wondering whether you would support Obama or Clinton up till last night.

[Rene]

137. Keith was hysterical. You don't throw a life long friend overboard.

Go after that Preacher who is Obama's 'mentor'.....there's blatant racism for you.
Obama should absolutely refute him.

[Steely_Dan]

140. You Guys Are Just Driving...

me towards Hillary.

Didn't Hillary say that McCain had more "experience?" Isn't there a difference?

Also...
Is Hillary responsible for whatever any dingbat might say in support of her?

Aren't you just over-reacting a little?

-P

[Political Heretic]

141. No. There isn't a difference.

Clinton said, I have vast experience, McCain has vast experience, Obama doesn't. The only way you can try to spin that as not saying McCain would be a better choice than Obama is if you believe that she saw experience as a detriment, something that disqualifies someone from being president.

Since her entire campaign has been based on the value of "experience" and since she made the statement about herself as well, its impossible to suggest that.

So yes, she did say McCain was a better choice for President than Obama.

[short bus driver]

143. ALL ABOARD!!