The Rules and Obama supporters

[Texas Hill Country]

For all the hooting and hollaring I see on here about "The Rules" and not supporting a re-vote in Michigan and Florida because "that is changing the rules"... I just find it very funny that these same people are all gonna "rebel" and freak out if the Super Delegates vote their concience, which is part of the rules too...

Its funny, cause if you follow the rules on the SD's and they vote for whoever, it helps Hillary...

But if you break the rules, then reseat FL and MI, it also helps Hillary...

And yet Obama people are against the rules in the first scenario and for them in the second????


So which is it? Or do you only support the version of the rules that helps Obama?

selective rule application FTW!!!

[rndmprsn]

1. whine whine whine...you bore me

yawn...next

[niceypoo]

18. Sadly, this is about as intelligent a response as you will get from an Obama supporter

Obama has failed to articulate his policy, so his supporters are left clueless as to how to defend him, so you get responses like this.

Arrogance hides weakness, bye the way..

[skipos]

2. The rules are: the superdelegates can do whatever they want.

But they are stupid if they go against the pledged delegates, and they deserve whatever they get from that.

You are legally allowed to bang your best friend's ex-wife, but that doesn't make it ok.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. It's not OK?

When did that change?

[skipos]

29. Was my analogy not good enough?

How about...

The rules allow you to give a dirty sanchez to your best friend's 16 year old daughter, but that doesn't make it ok.

[Maribelle]

3. Which way is the wind blowing?

Obama supporters appear to have a small problem making up their minds, but I could be wrong. It seems they might need to get their talking points first.

[ProSense]

4. Hillary broke the rules, and is trying to claim votes in a state where Obama wasn't on the ballot!

That's cheating twice!

[Maribelle]

7. Hillary broke no rules.

Give it a freakin rest.

[Zhade]

22. Yes, she did. She didn't remove her name from the MI ballot AS SHE AGREED TO DO.

She also campaigned in FL against the rules, but called it a "fund raiser".

[Arkansas Granny]

41. Do you have a link to back up your claim that Hillary agreed to remove

her name from the ballot? I have searched but am unable to find any reference to that agreement.

[paulk]

14. what rules did she break?

come on Prosense, you pride yourself on the accuracy of your posts -

don't you?

tell us what rules she broke....

[ProSense]

20. Do you remember her saying Michigan doesn't count?

Do you remember her circumventing campaign rules in Florida?

Don't try to spin and call me out with your delusional bullshit!

[paulk]

31. LOL

all you have are insults

par for the course

[ProSense]

33. Do you remember her saying Michigan doesn't count? That wasn't an insult it was a question. n/t

[paulk]

35. "your delusional bullshit"

Maybe when someone says that to you, you're not insulted. I don't know.

Actually, I don't remember Hillary saying Michigan doesn't count. I have seen it posted hundreds of times by Obama supporters, but there's no link and no context...

And even if it's accurate - since when is changing your mind "breaking the rules"?

Hillary didn't break any rules.

[ProSense]

38. Which is: "come on Prosense, you pride yourself on the accuracy of your posts -"

"since when is changing your mind 'breaking the rules'?"

She wasn't deciding on a meal, she signed a pledge and others were involved. This isn't the Hillary Party, it's the Democratic Party.

[paulk]

43. she signed a pledge to what?

not campaign there?

[Arkansas Granny]

40. Here is the text of the pledge that the Democratic candidates signed.

Four State Pledge Letter 2008
Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina
August 31, 2007
WHEREAS, Over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a
2008 nominating calendar;
WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic
diversity of our party and our country;
WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the
nominating process, to insure that money alone will not determine our
presidential nominee;
WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and
the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the
nominating calendar.
THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge
I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC.
___________________________ __________
John/Jane Doe, Doe for President DATE

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070831_Final_Pledge.pdf

The candidates agreed not to campaign in the states that scheduled primaries that did not follow the calendar set by the DNC. There is no mention in the pledge of removing their names from the ballot. Obama and Edwards voluntarily removed their names from the ballot. Hillary did not campaign in Michigan, therefore she broke no rules.

[here_is_to_hope]

42. "I shall not campaign or participate in any state"...

That tells me she should have not had her name on the ballot for that would be, ah, help me out here...
Participating?

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. 'The Rules' re superdelegates versus LOGIC.

Obama will go into the convention with more pledged delegates, more states won, and very probably a lead in popular vote. Clinton will go into the convention down 100-150 in pledged delegates, with fewer states, with a likely popular vote deficit. Obama brings with him MILLIONS of organised, energetic, enthusiastic NEW DEMOCRATIC VOTERS. Clinton brings...NO new voters, and her getting the nomination under these circumstances will serve to ALIENATE the key African-American voting bloc that makes up the most dependable part of the Democratic base, and to alienate most of the aforementioned NEW VOTERS. Under these circumstances, who do you think the superdelegates are going to vote for? They aren't stupid, and they want the Democratic party to have a candidate who can WIN in November.

[Zhade]

23. The SDs will go with Obama, and Clintbots will be stunned.

They EXPECT it to be handed to her.

They couldn't be more wrong.

[AtomicKitten]

6. There are no rules for superdelegates.

[Maribelle]

9. Yes there certainly is: it is a general rule that they can vote any way they want.

[AtomicKitten]

10. No shit! You are just repeating what I said & that explains the confusion in your camp.

[jillan]

8. Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

Howard Dean has been saying this all along, but the Obama supporters just don't understand that
they can't have it both ways.

[Malikshah]

11. Now now-- logic is unfair.

This is politics after all.

[LittleClarkie]

12. Hrm. But I'm an Obama supporter and I support a revote

I think you lost me.

From what little time I've spent looking at the issue on the board, it seems like most Obama folks support a revote, while most Hillary supporters don't and would prefer the delegates are seated as they are, which wouldn't be fair regardless of who you support.

And you are assuming of course that the SD's will not go with the will of the people. When have they not?

Breaking the rules in MI and FL would be seating the delegates as they are. A revote wouldn't break the rules if the DNC sanctions it. And as I say, I haven't seen many Obama folks against it.

If you mean the opposite of what I think you do, then you need to make that clear please.

[Texas Hill Country]

16. Obama does not support a re-vote. and they have gone contrary to pop vote several times.

[ProSense]

26. Hillary:

3/12/2008

Hillary Clinton Statement on Seating Delegates from Florida and Michigan

Hillary Clinton made the following statement at the Hispanic Chamber Of Commerce earlier this morning:

"If you are a voter from Florida or Michigan, you know that we should count your vote. The nearly two and a half million Americans in those two states who participated in the primary elections are in danger of being excluded from our democratic process and I think that’s wrong. The results of those primaries were fair and they should be honored. Over the last few weeks, there has been a lot of discussion about what we should do to ensure that the voters in Florida and Michigan are counted.

"In my view there are two options: Honor the results or hold new primary elections. I don’t see any other solutions that are fair and honor the commitment that two and a half million voters made in the Democratic primaries in those two states. Whether voters are clamoring for solutions to the challenges that we face or not, or whether people are coming out in droves to be heard, we have a basic obligation to make sure that every vote in America counts.

"I hope that Senator Obama’s campaign will join me in working to make that happen. I think that that is a non-partisan solution to make sure that we do count these votes."

Really? They were fair? How many people voted for Obama in MI? How many people didn't vote in Florida because they thought it wouldn't count?

She's happy to accept MI votes, and equally happy to disenfranchise Obama supporters in the state.

[Texas Hill Country]

27. FL had record turnouts...

[ProSense]

28. You didn't address MI, and how do you know more people wouldn't have voted in FLA?

There were record turnouts everywhere.

[LittleClarkie]

30. But in the OP you were addressing Obama supporters

and I haven't seen too many who didn't support a revote.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Nobody suggests that superdelegates should be forbidden to vote in their own interest.

[Texas Hill Country]

17. no, they just threaten to take down the party...

[niceypoo]

21. The left wing media (Air America, Olberman) will take down the party first..

They have driven 70% (about 1/3 of the democratic party) of Hillary supporters into stating that they will not vote for Obama under any circumstances, a systematic blanket party of abuse will do that to a person

[yourout]

44. Has it ever dawned on you that the reason most of the progressive media is turning on Hillary is....

because the see what she is doing and they like the majority of DU'rs think it is WRONG!

Unethical, unprincipled, immoral, mean spirited, and WRONG!

She is behaving like a Republican....not a Democrat. Or at least what I would call Democrat.

[pampango]

45. While all Hillary supporters promise to support Obama? Both sides

find some rules more to their liking than other rules, whether it's DNC rules on Michigan and Florida or DNC rules on the power of superdelegates.

Unfortunately, each side resents the rules that disadvantage it and makes threats of nonsupport for the other candidate. Hopefully, the DNC will work something out with all interested parties to rectify the Michigan/Florida problem. Hopefully, the most superdelegates act in the long term interest of the party, not their own self interest.

[sniffa]

15. How strange

I usually have people like you on ignore. Problem solved!

[Texas Hill Country]

19. that is a shame. if you dont like a rational discussion with a person that disagrees, not my prob.

[Political Heretic]

24. That's a fair point, which is why I have always maintained that O supporters should rally before...

...and have a presence AT the convention before it is all decided. A show of solidarity among the people as a symbol to the establishment party - hear us, if you want us.

[mtnsnake]

32. K&R!

[Johnny__Motown]

34. voting your conscience is great, Voting because the Clintons bribe or intimidate you isn't

[bunnies]

36. Fuck the popular vote eh?

What exactly is your argument for overriding the popular vote? I guess you DONT think Gore won in 2000. Go BUSH... right buddy?

[Guava Jelly]

37. One thing you should understand though

Many of the Super Delegates are still in office and if they vote against the popular vote and person with the most Delegates they will have a tougher time holding their seats. In the end I believe they will cover their own ass and vote for the person who is in the lead.

[RazBerryBeret]

39. two problems:

1. "if you follow the rules on the SD's and they vote for whoever, it helps Hillary..."
who says that would help Hillary? she's obviously the number two right now, everyone
wants to be on the winner's side....


2. "But if you break the rules, then reseat FL and MI, it also helps Hillary"
She MAY be able to win FL, but I doubt MI...and the odds would become
greater the later in the Primary season it happens. Her credibility is dwindling.


I say follow all the rules! and I'm an Obama supporter