For my daughters sake, don't go there Keith

[saracat]

For my daughter’s sake, don’t go there Keith
Posted on March 12, 2008 by riverdaughter
This is message to Keith Olbermann,

You *used* to be my nightly news guy. My 12 year old daughter, “Brook”, and I used to watch you faithfully. We recorded you on our DVR. But you turned on us, Keith, with your partiality towards Obama and hostility towards all things Clinton. MSNBC went full tilt in the sexist direction and as a result, we removed you from the DVR and we don’t watch your channel at all anymore. I want her to believe that there are no limits to what she can do and MSNBC undermines my parental encouragment.

Now I understand you are going to do a self-righteous comment tonight, highlighting the illusory offensive racism of the Clinton campaign. No doubt you will sprinkle your 3 minute hate with pictures of slaves and sharecroppers and shame us all into remembering how bad african-americans had it and have it. And all of this is very true. They *do* have it worse off than we privileged white people. No one is going to argue with that. But if you think you can paint Geraldine Ferraro as a racist because of an unfortunate proximity of the word “lucky” to the word “black” or paint the Clintons, who are life long advocates of healing the racial divide as being latent Klan members, you will find out that it will backfire in the most spectacular way.

Because here’s the truth of the matter, Keith: Woman is the ni**er of the world. And every time you and Tweety and Obama and David Axelrod go off on the Clinton campaign like this without curbing your own speech and body language, you reinforce that message. And whenever Kerry or Kennedy or Dean don’t stand up and demand respect for Hillary from you and condemn the words that flow out of your mouths when Tweety refers to her as ‘babe’ and Obama tells everyone that she gets angry at him when she’s feeling emotional, you reinforce that message. And any time Howard Fineman or Jonathan Alter or Eugene Robinson appear on Countdown with you to say how it’s urgent for the sake of the party that Hillary drop out of the race in spite of the fact that she has *earned* more votes in more crucial states than Barry ever has or will, you reinforce that message.

So, go ahead, Keith, make my day. If you still plan on having your special comment tonight where you drag Hillary Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro through the mud and expose them to shame and ridicule, I will have Brook sitting with me to watch you one last time. And I will carefully explain to her why men in power are never to be trusted to consider anyone but themselves. And that with this special comment, you are not sticking up for the african-americans out there who have nothing to fear from Clinton. You are sticking up for your *own*- the guys. And that the battle for equity had only reached the end of the beginning when I was in college. And that now it’s her battle to fight. And YOU are the enemy.

Sincerely and with all my heart,

Riverdaughter
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/03/12/for-my-daughters-sake-dont-go-there-keith/

[DJ13]

1. Its all Keiths fault Clinton and her campaign acts the way they do?

You give him too much credit.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. obviously. and it is Obama's fault that he is black, forcing

the clintonclones to start racist attacks.

And if Obama had only dealt with his birth properly, as he should have, the Clintonclones would never had an opportunity to allege he was a muslim based on his middle name and schooling in his early years.

Lastly, It is Obama's horrific defect to mention drug experimentation in his youth, forcing the CLintonclones to allege that he was a drug dealer.

[Yes We Did]

57. He is going to teach the OP a lesson she can share with her mom.

Just because you are a woman doesn't mean you get to have it both ways.

I am for equal rights for all people, but with those equal rights comes equal scrutinization.

You don't like double standards, then don't use them.

Hillary, and her supporters are learning that the hard way.

[knixphan]

175. absolutely.

[Bake]

210. Then where is the equal scrutinization of Obama?

It's non-existent, because any scrutiny of Obama is construed as racism by his supporters.

Bake

[Beacool]

218. Yep, you said!!!

And unfortunately it's creating a white backlash.

[NOLALady]

250. White backlash got us into the Reagan/Bush years.

If they thought this was a smart move, well I imagine they will do it again. If they feel the Reagan/ Bush years was beneficial for them and they want more of the same, they will vote Republican. That's their choice.

I'm sure they will vote in their best interest as well as the best interest of this country.

[Beacool]

256. They'll vote whichever way they see fit.

People who feel that they are being disenfranchised do not feel any loyalty to a political party that is throwing them under the bus.

In NJ alone, 25% of Hillary supporters would rather vote for McCain over Obama. Add to that, the people who will stay home or vote for Nader.

[JAbuchan08]

294. poor disenfranchised whites....

those black elites will never learn.

[lark]

513. Poor disenfranchised man

how dare that uppity woman speak about him??

[JAbuchan08]

557. So go ahead and vote for McCain

that'll teach the white patriarchy.

[goclark]

325. Randi Rhodes said that Pillary should be an

Independent.

I just wish she would run away.

She acts like a 6th grade Bully Girl and her supporters are Bullies too.

[orleans]

445. i heard randi--and my understanding was that hillary might run as

an independent if obama is the nominee.

that way, she'll peel votes away from obama, split the party, and mccain will be able to bomb iran for the next four years until hillary runs against him. again.

[stratomagi]

465. If she does that

she would be held in as much high esteem as Nader in 4 years. In fact it'd be funny to see him accuse her of stealing votes!

[jjr5]

492. How good is Hillary Clinton for the Democratic party?

Especially if she has such a divide and conquer technique? Seriously, if this is how she would act in the Whitehouse, why is she still being considered as the nominee. She rips people apart to make sure there is room for herself. Isn't this what happened with her universal health care plan in the '90s? Just goes to show you, if people don't work on bad habits or qualities, they just recur again, and again, and again . . .

[lark]

516. Yeah, like Randi's so connected to the campaign

of a woman that she hates. I heard on Fox that Obama is a muslim. Randi's about as even-handed and accurate these days as Fox, and it makes me sick.

[progressive_realist]

358. So you're saying these "progressives"

Who were excited to vote for a white lady are so upset at a black man getting uppity that they're going to vote for a white man instead?


Huh. Interesting.

[anonymous171]

221. Feraro's comments were totally not racist or racially insensitive, right?

[Bake]

237. Nice attempt to change the subject.

Where is the equal scrutinization of Obama?

And yeah, I thought Ferraro was way off-base. Now, you answer MY question.

Bake

[Two Americas]

274. we cannot know with certainty

We can speculate, we can surmise, we can guess. But we cannot read her mind or look into her heart.

The assumption that by merely uttering those specific words she is therefore a racist or had racist motives is, I belive, not supportable.

For example, were I to say "Clarence Thomas would never be a Supreme Court justice were he white" I don't think anyone here would argue with that. Thomas was cynically used for a political agenda that can in no way be imagined to be a blow against racism. He has been handsomely rewarded for his complicity in that agenda, as an individual. This has not advanced Black people as a group, and in fact has the opposite effect. The Republicans can hold up examples such as Thomas and Rice and Powell and use them to deny that racism exists and use that to beat back political initiatives that would help all Black people, rather than merely a few individuals.

We now have a Black man achieving national prominence with whom millions of whites are comfortable. When and why whites are comfortable with any particular Black person as an individual is something that is worthy of consideration. The same people who are now claiming that racism is the main reason that anyone would be opposed to this man have in the past not hesitated for an instant to viciously and savagely attack Reverend Jackson or Reverend Sharpton and to then deny that racism could be involved in that in any way.

It certainly is a good thing that a Black man is a serious candidate for the presidency. But we should not pretend that it were as though millions of whites had suddenly understood Malcolm, for example, and were now supporting his ideas.

Many whites are comfortable with this particular Black man. This campaign is not a referendum on racism, is not a litmus test for racism, unless we accept and internalize the right wing reactionary definition of the word.

Using phony and superficial and personalized tests for detecting racism is a way of avoiding and denying the reality of racism.

I fear that many whites may be rallying around Obama because he is the "I am not a racist" candidate for them. Of course using a person of color as a tool to deny and ignore sytematic and institutional racism, is itself racist. Playing "gotcha" with Ferraro and others is the tried and true way to distract people from institutional and systematic racism - "see? Over there! There is the racist! I am not a racist! Over there is the racist! That is what a racist looks like! Not at all like me! I support Obama, even though he is Black! That person doesn't!"

I urge caution and am calling for some persepctive and proportion.

[Straight Shooter]

338. "Using phony and superficial and personalized tests for detecting racism ...."

What I see happening is the seriousness of bona fide racism being diluted by reckless charges of racism being tossed at every perceived or imagined affront.

[Two Americas]

356. yes

It is actually much worse, and much more dangerous and destructive than it seems to be at first glance.

Notice that a thoughtful discussion about racism has no place on these hate-filled threads and any attempt at starting a serious discussion goes largely ignored.

The role that tokenism plays in racist politics is that defense of or the promotion of one Black individual is used by whites as a way to avoid looking at the larger problem. This is not a criticism of Obama himself, nor on the African American voters who are supporting his candidacy. Tokenism is instigated and promoted by whites.

What we are seeing is that racism is cleverly disguised as anti-racism. It is one of the most pernicious forms of racism. Whites have found a Black individual with whom they are comfortable. The more violent they are in defense of that individual, the more they can deny and avoid looking at racism. They can claim the high moral ground - at no cost, with no thought, with no responsibility, no fear of being challenged, and no guilt. It is much like homophobia - projecting things about oneself that are uncomfortable or frightening out onto other agreed-upon targets and then bashing away.

[Straight Shooter]

386. "Whites have found a Black individual with whom they are comfortable."

Whites as a collective group, I would agree with you. I had a long discussion with a friend today over the matter of racism vs. perceived racism and the history of the relationship between blacks and whites in America which of course was born through the ugliness of slavery. Then we discussed the issue of slavery and how endemic it has been historically, but that Americans seem to suffer the most sense of guilt for the U.S. association with slavery, although Europe consumed and benefitted from our export of plantation crops which were worked by slaves.

I think it's a good thing that Americans admit to the wrongs committed in the past and are moving forward with honorable intention not to repeat those same offenses, including the horrendous acts of bigotry, but it's also important to remember that we are all human and we speak inartfully at times. I took Ms. Ferraro's comments to mean that Obama was the right man in the right place at the right time. If she had phrased her sentiments in that manner, there would have been no uproar. It's a double-edged sword that we have finally progressed in our civilization that Obama is a serious candidate, but the pitfall is that we're all walking on eggshells. It is as if to say his candidacy per se isn't enough; we must also not criticize him in any manner or discuss the historical implications of his candidacy. Heaven forbid that he become an icon representing the purge of white guilt or the symbolical reparation for past misdeeds in America, because I know there are those who will say to the minorities, "Well, you have one of your own as president, what more do you want?"

I realize I got off on a tangent but I just wanted to express some thoughts about this issue.

[BearSquirrel2]

437. Halfrican American ...

I took Ferraro's comments the same way that Rush Limbaugh means it when he says the same thing. It is possible to be talented, charismatic forty-something and NOT BLACK. Hey look at Kennedy!!!!

I did think Obama's response downplaying any negative connotation by Ferraro was well played. Once again we are seeing who is Bugs and who is Daffy. Only one can ultimately battle Elmer during hunting season.

Back to the title. I think that white Americans are so comfortable with Obama because he is only half black. He was raised by a white mother and he has white culture. He's a "halfy". Something about me thinks that mysogniation is a really good thing that brings people from different cultures together for a common hope for their children. Obama kinda represents that.

There is no way Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson could have won a Wyoming primary. But Obama is something in between and perhaps a hope for cultural integration that most Democrats would like to see.

I think Hillary got a LOT of the same sentiment until she started getting nasty on the campaign trail. That is her loss and there is no going back.

[Straight Shooter]

484. John Kennedy was a totally manufactured candidate. Look into the history of his campaign.

His father was responsible for constructing the entire thing. John Kennedy was a nice guy, but we'll never know how skilled he was. There was certainly a lot of antipathy toward him in the South.

Also, AFAIK, he never did anything toward seeking justice for Patrice Lumumba, upon whom a hit was effectively ordered by Dulles in Eisenhower's cabinet, for which Eisenhower tacitly agreed and the plans were put in motion. If you don't know about Lumumba, it's a fascinating but altogether too familiar and tragic story of our government's complicity in controlling the affairs of other countries.

http://www.friendsofthecongo.org/lumumba/index.php

[susanwy]

510. No, Al Sharpton or JJ are idiots

See, there is the problem, your implying that Wyoming is full of a bunch of racists because we wouldn't support Al Sharpton or JJ. His support was largely due to a huge turnout of 18-24 year olds here. Obama is clearly not on the same level as JJ or Al Sharpton, partly because he is an unknown (which is what bothers me about his candidacy). For those who think he doesn't have baggage, just wait until the general, then let the vetting begin. After all, who know Spitzer (my wallstreet hero), was needing a little high prices ass.

[Two Americas]

512. oh really?

You do not think it is true that whites are comfortable with some Blacks and not with others? You don't think that has anything to do with racism?

I did not say that "Wyoming is full of a bunch of racists because they wouldn't support Al Sharpton or JJ." I said that many Obama supporters have a double standard when it comes to race, and that double standard perfectly fits the historic pattern of the way that whites view Blacks, and that is an important facet of racism and white privilege.

If I am understanding your post, you are saying that because young folks out in Wyoming voted for Obama, therefore racism is not a factor in politics. That proves my point. Obama is beibng used as a token - as a way to deny institutional racism. You just did it yourself.

[susanwy]

530. No, I actually agree with your post

but I was responding to the comment "There is no way Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson could have won a Wyoming primary.", isn't because of their race, it is because they have done a lot to damage race relations in this country.

But, I think race is playing a big part in this election, and it is unfortunate. No one is talking about the issues, instead we're handing the repubs a victory by splitting the party. I blame both Clinton and Obama for this, and the MSM for not doing their job and covering the issues. Of course, that would bore us all to death and young people (including young minorities) would stuff their faces back in their video games.

[Two Americas]

545. welcome

Welcome to DU, by the way susanwy, and thank you for your comments.

I am seeing a strange juxtaposition here. On the one hand, we have many vociferous and aggressive people claiming to be fighting against racism - calling out racists, attacking people for being racists. On the other hand, there is at the same time a resistance to any serious discussion about racism.

Would the narrative of Malcolm about "house Negroes" be welcome in these supposedly anti-racism discussions, for example? Should his voice and persepective be excluded from discussions about racism?

Where are the insights of Tim Wise in this discussion? Are his insights into the various ways that whites defend and promote racism without realizing that they are of any value, if we are going to be talking about racism?

Or are discussions of racism to be strictly limited to that which advances the fortunes of one individual?

[BearSquirrel2]

551. No I'm saying ...

No I'm saying the manner of topic and delivery of JJ and AS would be very alien to the VERY rural residents of Wyoming. These guys are famous for assuming that every incident is an example of racial profiling so much so that they make large public spectacles of people who are clearly and obviously unworthy of our attention or just plain guilty. Both of these two men also seen to hold obvious hypocrisy in their anti-semitism.

Obama talks about hope and opportunity instead of entitlement. This is the kind of stuff that white America can go for is it is actually a return to the message of MLK, equal opportunity, not equal results.

[jjr5]

493. Obama has stayed above the fray.

He knows that race doesn't matter. At least not as much as the issues that he wants to confront. He hasn't made race an issue, Ferraro, Bill and others have brought it up, which is what is troubling.

[lark]

521. Barack makes sexist comments

but somehow the guys just don't seem to mind that as much. Wonder why?

[BearSquirrel2]

552. No you guys are sex-bating ...

No you guys are like the deluded caricature in "The Lady Killers" who thinks any and all criticism is because of his race. Replace race with sex and that is what Hillary is setting up here.

Please feel free to present your quotes of Obama's sexism here. I'm quite interested in how a mind works that makes such ridiculous conclusions.

[Two Americas]

532. "race doesn't matter"

Saying that social problems don't matter, and seeking to disappear the "divides" always disappears the left. It always disappears the less fortunate, the persecuted and downtrodden, and minorities. The wealthy and powerful are not going anywhere and will not be disappeared.

Race doesn't matter for those whom racism does not directly impact. Poverty doesn't matter when you are not poor. Civil rights don't matter when your own are not threatened.

The notion that the political divisions in the country are caused by those who are fighting against oppression and persecution, by those who are suffering from oppression and persecution, is politically reactionary.

[JAbuchan08]

558. I think you completely missed the boat on that particular phrase

n/t

[Two Americas]

559. we can hope

Yes, we can hope that I am wrong about that.

Historically "healing the divide" and "transcending the partisanship" has always meant disappearing the people and the issues on one side of the divide. The people with power and wealth, with privilege and status, have no need to fight - they are perfectly happy with the way things are. They can afford to be pleasant and peaceful. "Let's stop this divisiveness" has always meant that the poor and powerless and persecuted should stop complaining about injustice and stop fighting against injustice.

We can gamble that this time it will be different.

[rodeodance]

382. exactly

[booley]

463. Or maybe just maybe it's something simpler

"I fear that many whites may be rallying around Obama because he is the "I am not a racist" candidate for them."

OR MAYBE it's because when people look at the two candidates, they like Obama more then Clinton?

I mean, we had quite a few white male candidates. If this all about denying racism, what better way then perpetuating the status quo. I mean, this also is nto the first year we have had black and female candidates. One year we had a Black Woman candidate.

So your theory doesn't holdup when matched to reality.

It also doesn't hold up because as a white voter I can say that is NOT the thought process that went on in my head when i decided I would support Obama.

I wanted Feingold or Boxer but they weren't running.
Kucinich didn't have a chance.
And while Edwards had some issues, I liked his talking about Poverty and the "Two Americas" but he dropped out.
So I looked at the remaining candidates and decided Obama best represented what i wanted. I have issues with Obama (like his health care plan and some of his advisors) but I have even more issues with Clinton.

And none of those issues are about race or being a woman. So i would appreciate if you didn't try to psychoanalyze me or other Voters (white or otherwise) since it's obvious you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I am not a racist if I don't like Obama nor a sexist if I don't like Hillery or as you try to imply, a Racist Sexist because I support Obama.

It's called equality dear. While prejudice has hardly disappeared, nor are still in the time of Jim Crow either. It's quite possible for people to look at a candidate and do what MLK said we should... judge them by the content of their character.

[Two Americas]

542. no problem

I am not sure what you are talking about. Of course there are many who like Obama more then Clinton, and it is no more complicated than that. I am not talking about Obama, nor about people supporting Obama, I am talking about the things some people are saying here in their zealous support of Obama.

I am not talking about "my theory" here, by the way.

You deny the reality of tokenism, and the possibility that it could be a factor in the extreme behavior of many of the posters here?

[booley]

549. I am not denying the idea of tokens

But if Obama is a token then why didn't this happen with the other black candidates that came before him.

Hell, for that matter, then why couldn't Clinton be a Token?

The theory that tokenism is playing any real role just doesn't add up.

What I am saying is rather then engage in pop psycho-analysis and conspiracies of hidden racism , what's wrong with the conclusion that maybe people like Obama more then clinton not because of his race or gender but because they like Obama more then clinton.

That was the entire point of the civil rights movement (for blacks, women and everybody else) that people would be judged on the merits of their character and not what stereotypes they engender. We should all be thrilled that a black man and a woman are viable candidates and are so not just because they belong to any minority.

As for the "extreme behavior" of many of the posters here, the extremes I see would seem to have a simpler explanation. A combination of three human traits.
1. Identification. Many people often identify with a "team", viewing that team's wins and losses as their own.
2. We base a lot of our decisions on emotion. So naturally people get emotionally involved when disagreeing.
3. People are often tactless on the internet. It looks like a letter but we do it like a conversation.

I should also add to that things people type are easy to misconstrue.

Like the post i responded too earlier. You say that you weren't painting Obama supporters with a broad brush now. But look at your earlier post. Because reading it and NOT being telepathic, it sure looked like you were calling white Obama voters racists.

I only have your words to go by. Which is also relevant as to Ferraro's comments.

[futureliveshere]

483. In that case explain this....

A year back, in the NYT GF said "I think it’s more realistic for a woman than it is for an African-American,” said Ms. Ferraro. “There is a certain amount of racism that exists in the United States — whether it’s conscious or not it’s true.”

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/03/flip-flop-sham.html

This flip-flopping is crazy.

[Two Americas]

547. that is an observation

That is how I would explain that. The person made an observation and offered an opinion.

A person saying that racism exists in America, and that this would negatively impact the potential success of a Black candidate is making a racist statement?

[nvme]

497. Barak is A candidate for President

He is not running as The Black Candidate for president. Camp Clinton is sure to never let America forget that he is the Black Candidate. Its is smarmy it is the basest form of the sludge factor. The are not trying to be racist they are just using racist tactics to turn white folk off to him. He Obama has not run on a civil rights platform. Being a smart politician he knew if he did he would find himself quickly unelectable. Camp Clinton is not concerned with losing this election the just must beat the uppity one.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

236. Here is your chance...

Please find something as offensive as

"Hillary is lucky she is a woman, I dont think she still be in it were she a man" by someone who was very high up in the Obama campaign, *if* you manage to find it lets see how that person was dealt with..

Here is your chance... scrutinize him..

[ChairmanAgnostic]

247. what a crock of processed, masticated, digested, former food.

I wonder how some people manage to find their way around during the day, with their cranial bones so clearly intent on self-proctological examinations.

[Bake]

252. Obama got a free pass from the press, and most of the public

Up until the OH primary. Even some of the press admits it. Only recently have they even thought about any critique of Obama, much less put it on the air or in print.

That's what my question was about.

As for you, be careful ... you'll hurt yourself with all those big words. You managed to use a lot of them without ever actually SAYING anything.

Bake

[Name removed]

293. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

490. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BearSquirrel2]

438. Hillary got a virtual coronation ...

Hillary was virtually coronated by the media. They were largely responsible for her high polling numbers. So ... I don't want to hear Hillary bitching that Faux News wasn't fair to her. They wanted her as the nominee so they talked her up. The other networks became interested in the story of how Obama was surging.

[shimmergal]

374. What a really brilliant reply. Not.

It reflects nothing but a mind stuck in the gutter.

[Cherchez la Femme]

425. The media

itself admits they've given Obama a pass so far and you come up with that incredibly rude post?!

Just wait until the "Librul Media" and the Repukes decide to really get going, if Sen. Obama wins the primary that is.
If you think this going easy on him now isn't deliberate, with an ulterior motive, then there's some major naivety going on.
Concerning what they'll then drudge up, Rezko is only the tip of the iceberg.

Along with absolute Repug delight with the rift, no, crevasse, in the Democratic Party due to the extreme rhetoric between factions; there is well & thoroughly designed trouble ahead, and the populace is falling for Rovian shenanigans as per usual: Hook, line and sinker.
If we're so much smarter than the Hugh Morans how come we never seem to be able to think these things through, even when we KNOW their tactics well in advance?

Smarter and better people than I have predicted this, if only it would be heeded.

[gizmo1979]

257. He's done it with Powers

also with the Nafta memo.He has called out Obama when it has been warranted.Could it be that the Clintons are running a Karl Rove type campaign and he doesn't like it.Keith hates fear mongering and that is what Mrs Clinton is doing.

[marshall]

266. Ferraro scrutinized affirmative action, not Obama

She was making the right wing argument that low performing, less deserving blacks are leap frogging over hard working and talented whites.
What's the point in pushing something like affirmative action when it is followed by complaints that the people helped by it are getting too uppity?

[The Doctor.]

275. LMAO! Please do tell us what legitimate scrutiny has been construed as racism?

Today has shown me the light.

Hillary supporters are all fire and no light. At least Barak's supporters have some of each.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

310. Uh, no, it's because some of the scrutiny has been racially tinged.

Is Barack a Muslim? Might he have been a drug dealer? Did you hear that Louis Farrakhan said something nice about him and that he got $100 from a former radical? Oh noes!! :eyes:

[Yes We Did]

360. First of all, look around and you'll see it. Second of all, back to MY point...

Obama isn't trying to have it both ways. I don't see any of his surrogates coming out saying that Hillary is only where she is because if Bill, or because she is a woman.

Of course, that is because he has some class.

[George II]

394. Tell us what to scrutinize, and we WILL scrutinize, okay???

[BearSquirrel2]

435. Only when ...

Only when you invoke a cultural stereotype. For instance when a poster recently commented that Obama was lazy.

If we sat around talking about Hillary being too emotional and a poor driver, you would know that we were being sexist.

[Bake]

491. I don't know about her driving, but I've sure heard the "emotional" stereotype here on DU!

Bake

[lark]

525. That's the nice ones

uglier ones refer to her thighness, the b*tch, the dyke, etc.

[BearSquirrel2]

553. She's not emotional ...

Hillary is the opposite of emotional, she is calculating. The discussion of emotion was her calculating that a little crying would help get here way in the days before the New Hampshire primary.

She's one tough, hard nosed gal. I have no problem with this. I have a problem with her recent behavior of undermining the Democratic position for the sake of her own ambition.

BTW, just to let you know I'm not skewed. The Obama people did do something that didn't please me. When Hillary talked about needing a strong president to enact civil rights she was right. There was no hint to me that she was undermining what MLK and Medgar Evars had done before Johnson signed the voting rights act and ripped apart his own political party. It took tremendous courage to do what Nixon did. And it took tremendous courage to march, both white and black. Obviously, those were oppressed risked more than ostracization and impoverishment of themselves and their families. But I always got the sense that those who advocated for civil rights have been written out of the civil rights story.

[lark]

524. Obama has made many sexist comments, they just get ignored

by the media because he is their golden boy. The men's club has firmly united around him. Obama said, when Hillary gets behind, she brings out her claws. Totally obvious sexist remark. He's said, Hillary gets emotional - again another sexist remark. Why aren't these drawing your ire, or that of the msm or even lw media? He is getting a pass until he's the nominee, then watch out, the stampeed to eviscerate him will be totally ugly to see.

[tripitaka]

473. yup, pounded the nail with that one

Casual mysogyny that plays to cognitive bias, Rezko, Gooslbee, all things that if they were related to Clinton, KO would have spent hours on. I think KO is really risking losing a big chunk of his audience. For sure he's never ever going to catch O'Reilly now, not after being this one-sided. Might not be long til MSNBC has a 100% male demo. They can rename their afternoon block "The Man Show."

I stopped watching Keith a while ago, when the primaries started up. Even when I watched I couldn't ever stand to have the screen on, I only went for the audio. I can just imagine the melodramatic facial expressions as he delivered this Special Commentary, I'll bet his eyebrows traveled at least 2 clicks, and he probably did that move his face to the side bit more than once.

[lark]

526. KO is on ignore for the duration of primary season

I always hated his lowbrow pandering by showing negative bits on Brittany and Lindsey EVERY SINGLE DAY (boooring, irrelevant, mysoginistic and a total waste of air space), but put up with the sophmoric nonsense to hear the good stuff. Then all of a sudden, he's like Obama's campaign manager. I used to watch his show every night, and taped it if I wasn't home. I haven't watched a complete show of his once since Jan. I really should have picked up on this before. While he trashes Brittany and Lindsey EVERY DAY, he doesn't spend any time trashing crazy male stars. I'm not defending what B and L are doing, but why is it newsworthy when worse deeds by male football players are totally ignored. God, I guess I was really slow to get the clue, but I'm there now and KO, kiss off!!

[jjr5]

489. No, actually racisim is considered racisim by his supporters -

How can the comment by Geraldine Ferraro be construed as actually scrutiny. Any actual scrutiny she could have given him during her several speeches and interviews was blinded by the shadow of racism. She missed her chance. I agree with you, by the way. I also think we need more scrutiny of Obama, but for some reason, the Clinton campaign wants to keep making incendiary biased remarks towards Senator Barack Obama, instead of actually scrutinizing him. It seems like the Clinton campaign is trying really hard to come up with stuff against him. Maybe they have scrutinized him and they've come up with virtually nothing. Or maybe they're just too distracted by the vitriol that has been flung around, in the past few months, by their campaign.

[The Wielding Truth]

509. She was in her rights to bring up policy and vote records, but

when any campaign goes to misleading personal attacks and unsubstantiated character crushing lies, it reflects poorly on the campaign and it's leader.

It is low to allude to a persons birth, race, family, or personal attributes unless they affect the execution of the constitution.

It's called bullying in the playground and character assassination in the media.
I call it wrong. If Hillary were black, too, it would still be wrong.

But even with this race issue they are still better for this country than McCain, who won't even acknowledge Black representation.

So Barack or Clinton certainly point to a better future than any mind numbing corporate republican.

[femrap]

312. Nah....you don't seem the type

who is for equal rights for all people. I think you like the entitlement that patriarchy gives you. If you were for equal rights, you'd have to give up some of your perks.

Someday, maybe you'll learn....and we won't even make it hard on you.

[libbygurl]

59. Where did the article say that? KO is just one of the major media people

...continuing with the endless and relentless misogyny. You are drawing a connection where none exist, or was mentioned.

[TheWraith]

105. Oh, bullshit. You cry misogyny every time somebody doesn't bow to Clinton, but you can't PROVE it.

You can't come up with a single thing that Keith Olbermann has ever said to indicate that he's in any way biased against women, but you'll smear him and his reputation anyway because he's HONEST about your candidate's disgusting behavior.

I suppose Rachel Maddow is a sexist too, since she started out being extremely sympathetic to Clinton, and now is one of the ones calling her on the crap, eh?

[murbley40]

190. and you yell racist....

everytime anybody says anything about Obama;so Bullshit to you too!!

[woolldog]

224. Wrong.

People yell racist whenever the Clinton campaign brings up Obama's race...which happens frequently.

Neither candidate or their surrogates need to be bringing up race or gender. Obama and his campaign haven't brought up gender at all.

[TheWraith]

284. Bingo.

The only time I've called somebody a racist was when they were being--gasp--racist. Like the Clinton supporter who accused Obama of being a crack addict. And yet, there seems to be more outrage about an imagined gloss of sexism.

[elehhhhna]

242. SO, how ya gonna vote is Condi is McMain's VP pick and Obama's our Prez. candidate?

For McCain/Rice, right? She IS a woman. You owe her.

lmao

[lark]

527. OK, I'm not who you were asking, but

KO is so sexist. Who does he highlight at every single show, Bush, Cheney, NO - it's Brittany and Lindsey. Yeah, he'll riff about Bush and Cheney, but he doesn't go on about them each and every day, the way he does the 2 hapless misfits. Bush and Cheney deserve daily rants, they are in control of their actions and trying to control the world. the other 2 are sick puppies who need help. Notice that he doesn't trash any male stars for doing the same things that the girls are doing, and you know football stars aren't saints either. Thank you very much, glad I could enlighten you on the misogyn of KO.

[JackORoses]

144. The problem with Hillary is not that she is a woman. It is that she is a Liar and a Cheat.

Disgust at the actions of a vile human being is not sexism.

[gmudem]

234. How exactly has Olbermann been sexist?

He just talks about what Hillary does. Clinton supporters who cry sexism are a lot like the boy who cried wolf. There has been sexism in some cases, but mostly you just want attention and nobody even takes it seriously anymore.

[The Doctor.]

277. You can't criticize someone for their tactics if they're female?

So, wait... it's ok for you to promote a Republican over your own party's other candidate so long as you're a woman, and if anyone criticizes you for it they're sexist?

In just the last couple days I've heard some of the most baseless crap coming from the Clinton folks.

[pingzing58]

138. I don't watch KO any more since he's been attacking Dems. I'm not alone on this one.

[roguevalley]

143. ah yes. not criticising women when they fuck up is a good thing

for girls to learn. Women are never wrong. they don't make mistakes. they are infallible even when they are wrong. we must take our high profile women as they are and never question their actions and men must never speak up either. What a sad thing. Everyone can be wrong and when you are, tell em so. That's how you learn. Keith, say what you have to say. I am sure there will be lessons in it for everyone, including little girls. Especially little girls.

[sybylla]

472. Thank you for saying this so well.

I'm heartily disgusted by the OP's suggestion that any criticism is inherently sexist. In fact, as a woman (and slightly reformed tomboy) who has had to deal with plenty of blatant and not so blatant sexism in her lifetime, I'm appalled by how many women don't know what real sexism is.

[hamnose]

452. They don't like Randy Rhodes either

Hmm, Nobody anywhere can say anything without it going through Hilariously's gate-keepers. Who's left? Limbo and O'Really? That sounds about right. Limbo said he would vote for her over McSame. You know they have a lot of gall to blame the right wing then the main stream now the left wing press for how they report on their favorite candidate. Hillary has gotten a very gentle handling considering her behavior. I suppose we should all shut up.

[sallyseven]

486. Amen to the writer.

Just remember you women out there the movement is afoot to get you uppity women in place, Obama is just following the traditional republican plan. His plan to vacate Iraq is changing daily. I believe him to be dishonest. He is furnishing a racist policy in this country.

[ProSense]

2. Go KO! Speak the truth:

A White Woman’s Open Letter to Geraldine Ferraro, Hillary Clinton, and Nancy Pelosi

[AzDar]

126. I'm thinking of K.O.'s 'Special Comment' to be more along the lines of an intervention.

Someone needs to tell Hillary she's finished.

ETA: NOT because she's a WOMAN; because she's awful.

[grantcart]

184. The woman that wrote that diary is the one that should have been a VP candidate

[Catherina]

381. WOW! That was great! What a beautiful sister

Mrs. Ferraro, the ignorance of your remarks left me speechless. Senator Clinton, your response and the response of your campaign infuriated me. Since the two of you are White women, and you initiated and orchestrated these remarks, I believe that it is my duty as a citizen, as a daughter and as a mother, who happens to be a White woman, to reject, renounce and censure the two White women who are responsible for these remarks and their use in political discourse.

I call upon other White women, in particular Nancy Pelosi, arguably, the most powerful White woman in the country, to publicly reject, denounce and censure these women. It is not my intention to exclude African American women, Latinas or men, whatever their ethnicity, from this conversation. However, I argue as a White woman (because the woman who made those statements and the woman whose campaign is using those statements to divide our party are White) that it is White Women who must take the lead in rejecting, denouncing and censuring these two women by saying that these two women do not speak for us and do not represent our sentiments.

Barack Obama is the front runner in the campaign for the Democratic nomination because he has the character, the policy proposals and the ability to unite this country around common ideals which value every human being regardless of race, ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation. To claim that he is the front runner simply because he is Black, not only implies that his candidacy has no merit in its own right but also implies that women are powerless –whether because a Black man has received preferential treatment or whether Black women have neither the intelligence or the inclination to vote their conscience rather than their race. It promotes the idea that historically, White women are victims of Black men—an idea that has its origins in the racist discourse of the past in movies like "Birth of a Nation". It invites us to base our vote for President based upon fear and upon some kind of misbegotten racial pride. I have heard it said that White Women vote for Hillary as some kind of backlash against the fact that Black men received the vote before White Women. My answer to that is that it was White Men not Black Men who refused to give White Women the vote for so long.

...

I am trying to teach my daughter the lessons that my mother taught me. I am trying to teach her to work hard, to persevere against adversity, to look at a person’s character rather than the color of their skin, their accent, their religion, or whether they are rich or poor. When Geraldine Ferraro complains that Hillary Clinton is not achieving success in her campaign to become the Democratic nominee because Barack Obama, as a Black man, has gotten breaks that he doesn’t deserve, Geraldine Ferraro is undermining the lessons that I am trying to teach my daughter. When Hillary Clinton or her campaign manager refuses to reject, denounce and censure Mrs. Ferraro’s comments in the strongest terms or implies support for these sentiments by claiming that opposition to these statements is itself racist, she is teaching young women to accept victim status and to base their vote on racial or gender prejudice rather than on a candidate’s character. Senator Clinton, either you can convince the people that your ability and your character entitle you to be President or you can imply that people should vote for you out of some misbegotten idea of overcoming victimhood or racial or gender loyalty. What are YOU teaching YOUR daughter?

...

Wow. Just WOW! :loveya:

[melody]

3. He tells the truth from his heart and you have a problem with that?

So he's only "your guy" if he agrees with you?

[libbygurl]

64. He's 'your guy' because he agrees with you, too?

He speaks from a misguided heart, to put it mildly.

[melody]

90. No, he's "my guy" because I enjoy his intellectual approach ... I disagree with him too

His heart isn't misguided ... the idiotic emotional female Jesus devotees to Clinton are the ones who
are misguided.

Even staunch Clinton people I know are disgusted with her right now and agree with Keith.

[trueblue2007]

110. I agree with the poster also

I won't watch him anymore.

I've written to his email, MSNBC etc but no one will listen. I only watch CNN now.
At least they are not TOTALLY HILLARY HATERS.

[melody]

118. Good -- give your rating to the MSM that hate both Clinton and Obama

That'll show Keith!

Frankly, I don't care. As the numbers are showing, the Clinton people are quickly becoming the decided minority.

[lark]

537. Try to win the GE

without Hillary supporters - won't happen.

Not threatening to vote for McCain, would rather die, but while I usually support the Dem candidate with my money and time, giving all I can to the effort, I will not contribute one red dime or cent, will not talk him up, and will cry when he loses to McCain because the nation won't vote for Obama after the terrorist incident that could be easily created to Bushco. I'll cry because if Hillary had been the nominee, she would have won. People think of her as tough and competent, they think of him as an inspirational talker, nothing more. Too many are pulled in by his golden words, not seeing the emptiness behind them.

[murbley40]

196. "Idiotic emotional female Jesus devotees"?

Wow!

[melody]

214. yup :) n/t

[JAbuchan08]

295. Hey people who are voting Obama are following their "hip black messiah friend"

turnabout is fairplay.

[melody]

426. If they are behaving in a way that makes him seem like that, sure

I'm not talking about all Clinton supporters -- only the ones that are blindly following her off the edge of the destruction of our party.

[JAbuchan08]

480. I was voicing my agreement

having said that you've got to be VERY careful criticizing Clinton suppporters. The women among them have identified Hillary so closely with their gender that when you criticize that gender based association they take it as an attack on all women.

[pollo poco]

423. Make that two wows! n/t

[lark]

534. How about 3? :>)

[Hoof Hearted]

198. Intellectual approach.

:rofl:

You mean like when he does five minutes on Britney's crotch? Yeah, he's a real intellectual.

[melody]

212. You pay attention only to Britney's crotch and not to the first 20 minutes?

No wonder you live in Hillary land. LOL

[Hoof Hearted]

240. I quit paying attention to Keith when he started obsessing on Britney's crotch, but if you like that

kind of "reporting" I guess you would like his kind of show.

[melody]

261. Welcome to my ignore list. It's where most of the hardcore Clintonistas are going n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

265. I will wear it like a badge of honor. Thanks!

[lark]

535. NO, KO is Brittany obsessed

If you don't know that, you haven't been watching the same show I've watched every single night for a long time. It always sickened me the obsesive way that he focused on Brittany, and now I know why, he's really misogynistic. I'm still glad he takes on Bush and cheney to some degree, but it's not enough and this woman hating thing is just over the top these days, so I've bid him adieu for now.

[Autumn]

302. Excuse me?

"the idiotic emotional female Jesus devotees to Clinton are the ones who
are misguided."
You are full of shit.

[melody]

306. And you're a divisive troll -- say hi to McCain for me n/t

[Autumn]

327. I have been here longer than you

I am a Democrat that will vote for the nominee,whomever that is,as for saying hi to mc Lame you are still full of shit. Oh by the way ,you are the first person on my ignore list.

[melody]

328. You've been here longer than I have and you only have one person on your ignore list? LOL!

Yeah, right.

Nice try -- enjoy your trolling.

[cornermouse]

395. I've been here longer than you too

and until this primary I didn't have anyone on my ignore list. It didn't used to be necessary.

[melody]

416. I have a small one, but I have one

Incidentally, this is my second ID. I've been here since its inception (well, two months after its inception).
I added some die-hards onto my ignore list from the old era.

[cornermouse]

420. Mine's been growing.

I will probably take most of them off after the election, but there are a couple that made such an impression that I may leave them on.

[melody]

427. I have some that are eternal lol n/t

[Sterling]

459. I have been here longer than both of you and.....

I would be laughing my ass off if this acrimony was not so destructive. Very few posts on this thread have any degree of intellectual honesty. I really think most HC and Obama supporters are acting like cult members. I guess this is what happens when people fail to keep an open mind and marry themselves to a position or a candidate. I think both candidates are a disappointment for different reasons. Good for us that no one can out disappoint Bush and the republicans over the last eight years.

What bothers me is that I see serious potential for our party to squander the opportunity to show that we can do a better job than the pukes have simply because many of us lack the maturity to be intellectually honest and demand the best from all of our politicians. I see both HC and Obama supporters saying things that make all of us look bad. I see serious problems with both candidates that we should all be concerned with rather than taking to a bunker mentality where "our person" can do no wrong and anyone who does not support our candidate is a "Hillbot" or "Obamanut" or some other such immature name calling I usually expect from Freepers.

I am sure I will get some sort of " your an idiot" or "you hillbot, or Obamafreak" response from one side or the other, possibly both but, seriously people, grow up. I get the impression many of the people here are very young and naive from what I have read here recently. Maybe that is not the case but most of what I read here shows a serious lack of maturity and open minds. We have a chance to fix some of the damage that has been done during the Bush years.

Get this:

your candidate is not perfect. People who prefer another candidate are not the enemy. In fact even most pukes are not your enemy. For the sake of our country we have to get past this mostly media created divide that allows the powers that be to do things that are not in the interests of the majority of the people in our nation. Many of you have fallen for the dog and pony show and married yourself to one candidate or another. All of the candidates running should be held to a very high standard during and most importantly after the election. We should also try to hold ourselves to a high standard as well. Most of what I read here these days is skimming the bottom of the barrel and leaves me feeling very pessimistic about our future.

[Gala328]

469. Well Said

This may be one of the most poignant things I have read in quite some time.

[susanwy]

511. Sterling

Hear, Hear! A voice of reason in a raging storm.

[lark]

533. WTF

"the idiotic emotional female Jesus devotees to Clinton are the ones who
are misguided."

I've been on the board for a couple of hours every day for the last week and I have never seen anyone write about Jesus and Clinton in the same breath. I grew up in a family of mostly women, and have always been very comfortable with other women, considering them more sisters than rivals. I've always been amazed at how some women hated their own gender so much and could never say anything nice about another woman unless it was their particular friend. You have brought so much hatred and illwill to just a few words that I'm astounded by what this reveals of your inner demons. Did your mother drag you unwillingly to church and now all older women are crazy Jesus freaks? Seek counseling so you don't hate your own sex so much, please!

[roguevalley]

148. standing up for women when they are wrong is as bad as men doing

the same for men. I am amazed that some will dismiss evil when its seeping in front of them. we do have a deep race problem in this country.

[pollo poco]

424. Race and Gender are both problems in this country

I am not a Hillary supporter, but I am appalled by the gender bias.
Obama doesn't have to play the "gender card" because the media does it for them.

I am not an Obama supporter, but I am appalled at the racism.

These things are EQUALLY offensive to this progressive voter.

[K Gardner]

4. Oh, puleeze. Hopefully people will teach their daughters not to be liars, manipulators and drama

queens with nasty and unpredictable temperaments. I know that is certainly what I taught my daughters. Hillary deserves no respect, she has not earned it. My daughters appreciate truth and honesty. And they're both campaigning for Obama.

[goletian]

29. i thought feminism was about fair treatment

sounds like a lot of you women want preferential treatment. clinton has had it VERY easy considering how dirty her hands have gotten.

[K Gardner]

46. I hope you're not responding to me :-)

[goletian]

292. of course not. sorry for... responding to your post. lol

im sure i meant to reply to the thread starter.

[Hoof Hearted]

199. "you women"

what the fuck rock did you crawl out from under?

[goletian]

291. the rock of truth. nt

[JanusAscending]

411. BINGO !!!

Ya hit the nail right on the head!! I'm an old broad who's been around and seen the womens rights issues from the "git go" I remember when Betty Freidan was a young attractive woman with flowing tresses, and also wanted to ban the bra, serve in the army, and have equal rights. Equal pay for equal work. NOT SPECIAL TREATMENT !! They were pissed off if a gentleman opened a door for them! This is a 180 degree turnaround. Sometimes I wish Obama wasn't such a Gentleman!! ' cause it puts him at a disadvantage!!

[Coexist]

171. I had tons of respect for the Clintons. They chipped away at it. There is nothing left.

this is not KOs fault. This is their fault. It has nothing to do with her being a woman.

[knixphan]

181. well-said, K.

[Kukesa]

415. And my daughter as well, K. n/t

[Jillian]

5. Excellent! But she needs to send this to Phil Griffin at msnbc.

I am sending him a letter today.

[leftofcool]

75. I did too as well as to General Electric

[blm]

216. Please add these links - the REAL Hillary deserves to be treated as she treats others.

Proof of Hillary's character and values and loyalty to other Dems under being falsely attacked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


Historian Douglas Brinkley's observations of Clintons cApril2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

TeamClinton ALWAYS at the right place at the right time for Democratic candidates and voters:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[Unsane]

6. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with gender

nothing

[rodeodance]

47. Apparently you are not well read on this issue.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with gender

nothing

[Unsane]

69. what

[rodeodance]

89. you can read can't you?

[Unsane]

102. Yes, can you? What the hell are you talking about?

Copying my post doesn't tell me anything.

[rodeodance]

114. good gawd----you said it has nothing to do with gender? educate yourself

[Unsane]

121. Keith's beef with Hillary has nothing to do with her gender, Einstein.

If she were a WHITE MALE playing these race games, Keith would have the same beef. EDUCATE YOURSELF.

[rodeodance]

146. Blast away with your rudeness. i will not respond back to your comments.

21. Keith's beef with Hillary has nothing to do with her gender, Einstein.

If she were a WHITE MALE playing these race games, Keith would have the same beef. EDUCATE YOURSELF.

[Unsane]

163. Yep, because you have nothing.

You accuse me of needing to "educate myself" when you have no idea what the fuck you're even talking about. Shoo!

[Umbram]

165. Snarky comments such as yours are beyond the pale.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5042525&mesg_id=5043233

[libbygurl]

53. No kidding. Where've you been for the last few months?

Hiding under a rock?

[VotesForWomen]

61. yes, it does. 'cool' guys like keith have been trying to score points off the backs of women forever

it's just become more obvious and disgusting now that they have a viable female presidential candidate to focus their hostility and contempt on.

[The Doctor.]

286. Let's see some examples of KO using gender as an issue.

Oh wait... you don't have any.

This is some of the most ridiculous crap I've ever read. Unsane is correct; Keith's comments have nothing to do with gender.

[karmicglee]

335. I think we are being a bit too harsh on Olbermann

He is a good guy with good intentions. I think we should cut him some slack.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. For the sake of River's granddaughter- Go there, Keth.

She shouldn't have to grow up in a world where racists are in charge.

[lark]

540. She shouldn't have to grow up in a world that tolerates sexism

but guess what - she is!

[leftofcool]

8. I hope you mailed this to him

We stopped watching him quite some time back and will not be watching this comment and we did so because of the sexist comments. Just watch for Keith to start fawning over McCain.

[Tarheel_Dem]

51. if keith were concerned merely with ratings, or keeping his job...

he would never have gone there with the Bush Administration. I don't think a few screaming nutters from Hillaryland will bring his career to a screeching halt. The new voters that Obama is attracting to the political arena will find a welcoming home with Keith as well.

Hey, I hear they're all up Hillary's butt over at FR and FNC these days, have at it. :puke:

[leftofcool]

70. Of course none of those pundits are concerned

about keeping their ratings

[NightWatcher]

9. for your daughter's sake, dont teach them to be a victim

"Woman is the ni**er of the world" give me a damn break.

[tishaLA]

49. I've always wondered what that phrase makes black women

It's based, you know, on a kind of racial assumption.



That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud-puddles, or gives me any best place! And ain't I a woman? Look at me! Look at my arm! I have ploughed and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me! And ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man - when I could get it - and bear the lash as well! And ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children, and seen most all sold off to slavery, and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me! And ain't I a woman? --Sojourner Truth

[Debi]

136. Thank you for your post!

:hi:

[TexasLady]

161. Thanks for slapping some reality to this thread.

[Jensen]

176. Thank You !

:thumbsup:

[laundry_queen]

279. THANK YOU

for that quote!

[DrZeeLit]

383. Goosepimple time. Thank you for your post of SANITY here!

[Catherina]

390. Thanks tishaLA. I'm saving that quote

It's poignant.

[Cherchez la Femme]

409. That is a John Lennon/Yoko Ono quote

made into a song, I believe.

edit: their own song

[lark]

544. Denial isn't pretty.

Women are the underclass and always have been - little change there. Women make less money even when doing the same exact job as a man - in general. I saw a stat the other day that women are the heads of 1% of businesses, even though they now have more college degrees than men. I work in healthcare, which is totally dominated by women in the rank and file, but guess who are the folks at the very top - all men. I've also worked in banking and publishing - same thing. Women who are submissive and meek are pilloried all the time and it pisses me off to see Hillary getting unfair treatment. I don't particulary like her, I'm an Edwards person through and through, but I do respect that she's a fighter and a person of ideas and I trust her to look out for our best interests. I don't trust Obama who seems to me to be all show and no go and think a lot of Dems are going to be mightily hurt and surprised by his lack of success at making progressive changes as president.

[TwilightGardener]

10. Why are women allowed to behave in a racist, or race-baiting manner, with

impunity just because sexism is a problem? They're two separate issues.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

125. You're making way too much sense.

[rodeodance]

388. you do not have a clue do you!

[azmouse]

11. I'm a woman who thinks with her head not her vagina.

Hillary is being treated the same way a man would be if he behaved the way she does.
She should get no special treatment because she's a woman.

[leftofcool]

19. Your header is a Rush Limbaugh Comment

Nice

[azmouse]

28. That surprises me. I've never listened to Rush a day in my life.

I guess I picked the phrase up from someone posting here. :shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

31. The vagina is not a shield. Sorry. You don't get

a free pass on racism just because you were not born with a penis.

[leftofcool]

40. Fine by me

I am just always amused when I see a Democrat quoting Rush. And yes, I do occasionally listen to him, just to know what the enemy is up to

[Occam Bandage]

50. Quoting Rush? It's a pretty obvious way to phrase it.

I mean, you could also do "think with my head, not with my ovaries," but either way, it's not like it's a patented Rush phrase, or like it carries right-wing connotations.

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. I hear Rush & Big Dawg are best of buds these days....funny that

I guess they figured out they do have something in common afterall, I'll let you figure that one out.

[verges]

172. Rush Limbaugh

said he's a woman?!

[grantcart]

192. guffaw. . drink.. up . . nose. . . keyboard . . . gotta get the paper towels

priceless. I wonder how many people will go back up the thread to find out that either Rush has been cross dressing this year or has had some major surgery.

[akbacchus_BC]

249. I did!!!!!!!!! Just kidding. n/t

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

241. Given Rush was booted out of sports broadcasting

For saying the media was going easy on someone because he was black and he was really over ratted, and the if he was white he would be riding pine..

Do you *really* want to go there..

[tabatha]

27. Well said.

[Not the Only One]

37. Right

How does any outrageous and negative campaign tactic by Hillary and her campaign and calling her on it communicate to your daughter that it's not the case that "there are no limits to what she can do."

I'm a man. Bush is a man. I have a son. I wouldn't want Bush to be viewed as a role model for him, just because we all have penises. Why would you want Hillary to be a role model for your daughter just because all three of you have vaginas?

Expect more from your leaders! Don't let them piss on you and tell you it's raining. Your daughter, if she conducts herself honorably, can be Speaker of the House! You have proof of that today. Hillary would be doing better in her WH if she were acting honorably. It's not about her genitals at all.

[Froward69]

147. Here Hear!!!

[Not the Only One]

174. Are you stalking me? :-)

I recognize you from your last reply to the "The Reason Why Racism STILL Exists in the U.S. Is reflected by the idiotic racist statements at DU" thread!

[Froward69]

251. no

i did not realize i was... I tend to read posts without really paying any attention to the poster. If i agree I say so if I don't I move on. I must have agreed with you... twice. I apologize if it seems I was following or stalking you. I certainly did not mean to.

[Not the Only One]

260. I had a smiley face. I was just kidding with you.

I just thought it was funny.

[classykaren]

352. Wonderful said n/t

[Cherchez la Femme]

421. She can be Speaker

Oh, gee, WOO HOO I guess

...but not President!

Clinton and Obama are in a neck-and-neck race, yet there is nary a day that goes by lately where a 'Hillary should step down now', highly rated, thread appears here. Nor have I seen one 'Obama should step down' thread, either highly or lowly rated.

Tell me why.

Why should Hillary Clinton defer to this guy, especially when they're pretty much equal in delegate count?
Why is there no corresponding calls for Barack Obama to withdraw, unless it's based on gender?
Surely not race, because only the Clintons are racist (an amazing statement, given their past advocacy) so the spin goes.

How would you suggest she explain ALL THAT to her daughter?


And stop putting words in her mouth. It has nothing to do with 'role models', Saracat never said Hillary was a role model for her daughter!
Rather, it has everything to do with how women are still treated and perceived, everything to do with opportunities and ceilings (Speaker, as you pointed out), for women.

[skyounkin]

444. I'll tell you why

It's not because she has LOST! It's not because they are NOT equal in delegate count- Barack has more! It is not because Barack has won more states! It's not because he has continued to beat her at every angle! He even won Texas- one of her famed fire wall states!

Clinton should defer to this guy because he has won!!! It's because if the roles were reversed- if he was the one who lost 11, 12, 15 states and was still in the race- hillary would be going bat shit crazy screaming for him to step down.

You want equality- then start with hillary- she has lost, he has won!! And she is still in the race.

That sounds equal to me.

:eyes:

[Cherchez la Femme]

548. Current delegate count:

Clinton: 1492

Obama: 1597

That's a mere 7% difference with less than three-quarters of the race completed.

And she should back down? That's an appropriate lesson to teach a young girl, to give up especially with that margin?

Baloney.

[libbygurl]

71. Yeah, 'cause all those sexist, misogynistic comments would be thrown at her if

...she were a man. Totally.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. Yet another "feminist" who is blind to her white privilege.

And teaching her daughter to be so as well.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. very well put.

[saracat]

32. So perceived "racism" trumps " sexism" to you? Are you "blind to 'sexism"

which is applied to women of "ALL" colors?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

85. I just love how you trot out "women of color" like a shield.

As to your question, neither "trumps" the other. It's not a competition, you know.

[lark]

546. They why are you condoning one

but not the other since both are equally bad?

[JAbuchan08]

296. so racism is "percieved" while sexism is an absolute.

As long as the perception exists it exists. That is a double standard.

[Daemonaquila]

408. Language matters...

... and yours just said it all.

"Perceived" racism vs. (no qualifier) sexism? Right there is the denial of racism as being real. You should know better. How many times in your life have you run up against a man who has done or said something sexist then laughed it off your protest to it as "just your perception," and of course he wasn't actually being sexist? Told in not so many words that we "little ladies" sure do get worked up over nothing? Are too defensive and read meanings that just couldn't possibly be there?

Please.

[RestoreGore]

62. Thinking all whites are privileged just because they are white is racist as well.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

86. All whites are privileged because they are white. It's the truth. nt

[RestoreGore]

99. That's BS

[leftofcool]

137. I bet some of the poor Appalachian women would disagree

[mrreowwr_kittty]

142. I bet they'll also vote for Clinton. nt

[Hoof Hearted]

204. Meaning what. Explain this comment.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

219. Meaning I'm tired of people

Trotting out the "But what about poor whites in Appalacia!" line when it's pointed out that white people in America enjoy privilege.

[Hoof Hearted]

239. But you said "I'll bet they vote for Clinton." This is not explained in your reply.

What do you mean by "I'll bet they vote for Clinton?"

[mrreowwr_kittty]

309. I meant that I'll bet they vote for Clinton.

Do you think they're going to vote for Obama?

[Hoof Hearted]

397. Why wouldn't they vote for Obama?

[RestoreGore]

372. Right. Because you don't care about poor white people.

Fortunately, many of us care for those of all races.

[RestoreGore]

205. You really think they would vote at all?

People regardless of race who live in patched up shacks with little to nothing and no running water tend to have a lot more to contend with than worrying about that. So if all whites are privileged just based on skin color it's news to me. I never had a big house or an ivy league education and my family and I have had to work for every damn thing we ever had. So what "privilege" are you talking about? And yet people who say what you say dare to play the race card with others? I know people both black and white who are poor, and they deserve better than this crap. Perhaps if people in this country INCLUDING the candidates which INCLUDES Obama really gave a damn about addressing poverty in this country that effects peopel of ALL races, we could have a discussion on that in this campaign rather than the petty nitpicking of media people who think themselves so self important. When Keith Olberman gives a special comment about poverty in America without the political red meat thrown out to keep his DU base happy and satisfied to keep his own big paychecks from the corporate media rolling in, maybe then I will consider him a real journalist.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

229. What privilege? Let's see:

Are you several times more likely to be murdered or sent to prison because you are white?

Are you followed in stores because you are white?

Are you profiled by the police because you are white?

I could go on. The point is you are EXACTLY the type of person Clinton and her surrogates are appealing to when they racebait.

I eagerly await Olberman's comment tonight. Maybe they have something more to your liking over on FOX at that time. Isn't Bill O'Reilly on then? I hear he's been valiantly defending Ferraro lately.

[eShirl]

305. EXACTLY! k&r n/t

[RestoreGore]

362. I don't watch trashy cable news

And it is obvious you are a very bitter human being, and that the ugly head of racism that goes both ways has reared its head again, and that is sad. You don't know what I have experienced in my life or what I have done in my life to speak out about injustices to others that I am well aware of. You just LABEL based on your own prejudice. You just MAKE THE POINT. I feel sorry for you.

[Recursion]

334. It's not about a house and a degree. It's about not being targeted for murder by the police

It's about not being randomly pulled over and sent to jail based on the color of your skin.

It's about not being left to drown when a perfectly foreseeable natural disaster happens.

It's about not having your male population very literally decimated by the prison system.

[RestoreGore]

364. Then why isn't; Obama talking about these truths?

I already know they exist and have spoken out against them. Why hasn't your candidate then? But I apologize... I am "privileged" due to my birth and should spend the rest of my life feeling guilty for it. Yes, great way to UNIFY this country.

[Recursion]

368. He has spoken out over his whole career

In particular, he has forced Chicago PD to tape all confessions. HUGH victory.

He hasn't mentioned any of these because they aren't particularly a huge part of his national agenda. He trusts us on the lower level to work on these.

[RestoreGore]

371. Not part of the national agenda?

What a cop out.

[Recursion]

373. Not really. A President has little to do with local law enforcement policy

He showed us how, in Chicago, it's possible to change racist, intimidating police tactics. It's our turn to live up to that.

He now has a national agenda. Yes, a large part of it concerns civil rights. But it's not a President's place to weigh in on the minutiae of local police policy.

[Daemonaquila]

417. That's the easy response

but hardly insightful. The fact is that we white folk of both sexes are privileged. Period. Greater opportunity and preference for whites, of any class, is as ingrained in our culture as judeo-christianity is, and therefore is invisible to most of those who fit the profile and have never suffered the consequences of coming from the "wrong side of the tracks."

Sure, you could waste your time feeling guilty about it if you really want to. The more reasonable response is to become conscious of the daily effects of that privilege, and use that in combating privilege. It's like feeling guilty for throwing your garbage out the car window on the highway, versus understanding that littering sucks and just not doing it, being willing to speak up when you see others doing it, and when the opportunity presents itself, cleaning up a bit of roadside.

This country can not be unified until we stop bickering about some illusory hierarchy of oppressions that comes from denying/wanting to deny privilege. Who has it worse? The women or the black men? The poor folks or the brown folks? The gays or the disabled? In the end, almost everyone but Warren Buffet, George Bush, and Bill Gates falls into some category where they get shafted. Unity comes from recognizing the problem and learning to be good to each other in hope that if we set the right example, some future generation will finally grow up without the baggage of worrying about skin tone, sexuality, age, class, religion, ability, national origin, and any other silly criteria we use to justify our superiority over someone else.

[Recursion]

150. All whites are privileged because they are white (nt)

[Catherina]

393. Thanks n/t

[femrap]

412. And you're denying 'male privilege?'

Why the quotes around feminist? You think they're uppity or something? They make you want to put them in their place?

Your insecurities and love for hierarchies are showing. You like patriarchy, don't ya? Makes you feel loved, doesn't it?

[Occam Bandage]

13. The most pathetic Clinton deflection yet: "Complaining about our race-baiting is sexist!"

[BuyingThyme]

225. Exactly.

:hi:

[elehhhhna]

243. ding ding occam wins!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

14. for the sake of our daughters - and sons - GO THERE KEITH

and thank you for not being beaten down.

[MadHound]

16. Another Clinton supporter trying to downplay the latent racism in Hillary's campaign

And meanwhile blaming all of Hillary's problems on the media. Hmmm, where have I heard this sort of ploy before:think:

[Bullet1987]

17. WTF?

I want her to believe that there are no limits to what she can do and MSNBC undermines my parental encouragment.

What in the hell? So Olbermann is not entitled to an opinion anymore unless it's pro-Clinton? And no offense, but if you need MSNBC to validate encouragement for your daughter...seek help right away.

[ProSense]

38. LOL! They'll be watching, her daughter too! n/t

[cali]

58. Stunningly stupid. How anyone can cheer on this piece of shit piece

is a wonder. And Riverwhatever should have enough sense to realize that she is in control of the TV set. duh. Not to mention the nasty little snipe she employs by calling Obama "barry". What s stupid creature with her lying bullshit cribbed straight from the sick Hill campaign about how Hilly has won the states that count. Fuck riverwoman.

[Medusa]

139. There seem to be a number of female Hillary supporters

who are attempting to seek validation and fufillment from Hillary's accomplishments. For the rest of us women out there who got out there, worked our asses off and accomplished solid careers on our own, without our fathers and husbands assisting us we require no such validation. We are self-fufilled women and having Hillary as a Democratic nominee isn't going to do a thing to change the way we feel about ourselves and our accomplishments.

And if I'm correct, Olberman is going to go after the race-baiting that has gone on in this campaign directed at the Obama campaign and people of color by the Clinton campaign. I'm not his biggest fan in the world but I do believe that he'd say the exact same about this subject if it were Bill running for President instead of Bill.

[monmouth]

18. As a woman I could never vote for Hillary or what she stands for.

Her conduct of her campaign is an embarassment to thinking women everywhere and many of us are ashamed of her. She is not an independent woman and wouldn't be in this race at all if it wasn't for the fact she was married to WJC...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. Forget about being a woman -I don't see how any HUMAN BEING with any decency could vote for Hillary.

[leftofcool]

56. So 70% of the women who would vote for her have no decency?

I can't wait to tell that 82 year old lovely lady who lives across from me that she is indecent

[theboss]

115. Like we don't say worse about Republican voters every day

My sweet, loving, church-going grandparents voted Republican in every election until they died. Don't play the "don't insult nice people" card here. It's lame.

[leftofcool]

140. I don't call Republican women voters indecent just for the way they vote

but if you do, that's fine with me

[Tarheel_Dem]

98. especially an african american woman...

How Maggie Williams & Stephanie Tubbs Jones could allow themselves to continue to be pimped by the Clinton campaign is beyond me. After all the b.s. coming out of Rendell, Ferraro, Cuomo, etc. etc. etc., I don't understand how they can stand by, and expect to have any shred of dignity left in the communities they serve.

I'm surprised that Maxine Waters, who is very outspoken, hasn't broken ranks yet. I think we're gonna see some major defections in the coming weeks.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

Every sell out has his/her price.

[saracat]

233. Maxine Waters is a "sellout" Wow. Some people stop at nothing. Your way or the highway.

[Tarheel_Dem]

267. The CBC is going to have to make a choice if they're going to sit

idly by and watch an accomplished, civic minded, self made black man be denigrated almost daily by surrogates of the campaign they support. Or are they going to risk becoming totally irrelevant to the constituencies they represent? That's a fact. And I only say this because as you and I know, if the comments coming from Ed Rendell and Geraldine Ferraro had come from Barbara Bush, Don Imus or Mitch McConnell, they would be outraged, and rightly so. There can't be a double standard for the Clintons. And if these women have an ounce of integrity left, I want to hear from them that they are pleased with the direction the Clinton campaign has taken this debate.

If they are accused of hipocrisy by the right, it will be a very apt and accurate characterization. Women like Maxine, Stephanie & Maggie Williams need to let us know if this is all okay with them, and they need to do it sooner, rather than later.

[saracat]

283. So their being black trumps ther being a woman. Race trumps gender? because that is what this is

coming down to. Sad very sad.

[dana_b]

299. yes, yes it does.

How many white women do you see behind bars, out of work, homeless, profiled by the police? Noone in their right mind thinks that sexism is okay. However looking at people's lives today and yes, statistics, being white reigns.

[Tarheel_Dem]

330. This is so typical of the Clinton folks, make a racist statement,

and somehow twist that into sexism? Please tell me where in my post I suggested that they had to choose between gender and race? The people I cited just happen to be female (sorry), and they are african american. They need to let the public know if they are comfortable with the rhetoric coming out of the Clinton campaign when it comes to race.

I don't care that they support Sen. Clinton, I disagree with their choice, but it's their choice. Strong women, be they black or white, don't sit idly by and let these things go unchallenged, especially someone as outspoken as Maxine Waters. In the words of Sen. Clinton, I think she should have come out right away, to "reject and denounce" Ferraro's racially charged comments.

[Hepburn]

318. That's basically how I see your diatribe in the OP....

...whaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaa....:eyes:

[saracat]

323. Reading comphrehension is good. Try it.This isn't my OP.

[Hepburn]

361. Sooooooooo....

...you were not the party who originally posted it in this thread and by doing so, started the thread?

LOL...you are just as honest as the candidate you support....:puke:

[bagrman]

477. Did you copy and post this op from someone else? Reading comprehension, &thinking for self.

You and your daughter should sit at the computer together and google. Clinton Mena Ark. Clinton Foster. Clinton Cocaine. Clinton pardons. Clinton donations. That would be a good start. You will get millions of hits, and lets say that 95 % of those are Repuke hacks. that leaves over 100,000 to choose from, pick one from each catagory and have a good read and discussion about the topic. This is the real reason that people don't like The Clintons. If you think that people aren't being fair because she is a women is shallow, your playing the victim and teaching you daughter the same. The crap to be flung at The Clintons is minimal now, compared to what it will be.

[Beacool]

280. Why, because they're black?

How about Kennedy, Kerry and all the other white politicians who support Obama. Are they too being "pimped" out??????

Oh, the hypocrisy..........

[Tarheel_Dem]

340. Where the F**k did I say they had to "SUPPORT" Obama?

Please point it out to me. My point is merely that if the same comments made by Rendell, Ferraro, Andrew Cuomo had come from McCain campaign surrogates, there wouldn't be enough outrage to go around. Affirmative Action hire? Give me a fucking break. People of color, connected with the Clinton campaign, need to let us know if they're okay with these kinds of racially charged remarks, and explain to us why it's okay if it comes from the Clinton camp.

And trust me, they will be called out by black media, and in short order. I don't think anyone begrudges them their support of HRC. We understand their loyalty to the Clintons. But they need to distance themselves and denounce racism no matter who it comes from, or they will be branded as hypocrites, and rightly so. Afterall, the Clinton campaign is not a plantation, "as far as I know".

[hell-bent]

314. So, all Black people should

vote for Obama because he is black? Should all White voters support Clinton because she is white? Was this kind of logic demonstrated in Mississippi with Obama receiving 91% of the black vote and Clinton receiving 70% of the white vote? Looks like the White voter was a bit less prejudiced than the Black voter,right?

[Tarheel_Dem]

336. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.....

:wtf:

[VotesForWomen]

74. which are pretty much the same things O stands for. please wake up. nt

[SoFlaJet]

21. good try

wrong is wrong no matter what sex or race it comes from-you obviously have a woman agenda...while many of us only have a DEMOCRATIC PARTY agenda-if you truly care about Brook as I know you do then maybe looking at what John McCain will do with 3 Supreme Court judges to nominate and the damage THEY will do to Brook and my daughters and granddaughter-The needs of the many (ALL of us democrats) outweigh the needs of the few (Hillary Clinton). You just said in a different thread you would vote for Edwards not Obama-say Roe v Wade gets overturned and one of OUR babies has to abort a child some day in the future? What then Sara? Clothes hangers in cellars?

[hell-bent]

317. So, you are foolishly

implying that Obama would save abortion on demand for OUR "babies"; and, Hillary would appoint judges than would overturn Roe v Wade? The majority of Democrats when voting in a closed primary will support Hillary over the needs of Obama and his surrogates. This will be obvious in the Pennsylvania primary. No fucking Rethugs or Independents(Nader's Raiders)will be allowed in this primary. Take a clue from your bright sister-law.....

[Tarheel_Dem]

343. hey, why the hidden profile? n/t

[SoFlaJet]

474. no

but John McCain possibly will

[ORDagnabbit]

22. facts are facts..... cant hide from them. n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

23. Wow, I'm stunned. Have you tried writing to Hillary? She's the one you should be taking to task!

[OnionPatch]

208. Hear Hear!

Write to Hillary. I think she's making a horrid example for our daughters.

[Judge_Mental]

24. How it looks form here.

When I hear every single criticism of Clinton turned into a claim of sexism, it reminds me of the criticisms of Bush being labeled as anti American a few years ago.

[Bigleaf]

25. I feel for her daughter. Let's hope she has a rational father to balance this warped,

wacko view. She's doing her best to fuck over the Democratic Party due to her insatiable lust for power and Keith is calling her on it. No sexism there.

[LisaM]

156. You don't think all presidential candidates have a lust for power?

Of course they do, or they wouldn't be running. To pin ambition on one candidate and not another is just ridiculous.

[Bigleaf]

211. Nice try. When your lust for power is so great that you would throw

the nominee from your own party under the bus, you are a fucking snake.

[LisaM]

245. First of all, NEITHER of them is the nominee yet

and second of all, I think BO has pretty much thrown Hillary under the bus. However, as I pointed out yesterday, and the day before, and last week, it would be REALLY nice if Obama supporters could support their candidate by refraining from swearing and name calling. Seems to be an impossibility though. I'll add it to the list of other names people have called me.

[Bigleaf]

488. I did not call you a "fucking snake". I was referring to Hillary, just for the record.

You are supporting her and I respect that. I have no problem with you. I have problems with the way she has run her campaign.

[hell-bent]

322. Perhaps you are a bit

confused on who "threw who under the bus"? The real serpent in this primary is Obama who speaks with a forked tongue; however, you clones take his words as Messianic messages. Have you fainted at one of his gatherings?

[JanusAscending]

422. Go away child.

[Schema Thing]

30. Proof that women are just as lame as men...

when they decide to be stupid. Whether that stupidity springs from ideology, partisanship, or meanness matters not.

In this case it seems to be partisan.

[ericgtr]

33. As a parent that wants to censor she needs to prevent her from watching

We are free to speak in this country, listening is optional.

[southern_belle]

34. Keith, don't be censured. Speak the truth n/t

[GodlessBiker]

35. "*Men* in power are never to be trusted." This person just doesn't get it.

So, Riverdaughter will be explaining to her daughter that "man is the ni**er of the world."

[NorthernSpy]

79. I know. Identity politics are unavoidable to some degree, but this is getting ridiculous!

Just plain-ass ridiculous.


And here I was in 2006, thinking things were gonna rock from then on.


:(

[kid a]

36. MOM - Please don't go there: "And I will carefully explain to her why men in power are never to be t

"And I will carefully explain to her why men in power are never to be trusted to consider anyone but themselves"

That could effect her more than any TV show.

Thats just an untrue, broad generalization that won't due justice to your daughter's future.

[cali]

39. whiny victim bullshit

typical.

[Mags]

135. Yeah, I would talk, Most of you BO people have cried victim bullshit

since you joined this board. You can't stand the truth, all you can do is try to cut someone off at the knees. You all are losing more votes for your man by the min. You act like thugs. Can't you have a decent debate without the crap you spew?

[cali]

158. not me, dearie.

And you are a real piece of work and hate spewer. The OP is crap imo, and not some overweaning truth. Do try and learn opnion from fact. And I've said it before: Anyone who bases their vote on posters on the internet, is a fool. I can't stand what your ilk says or the lying filth you spew, but I'm smart enough to know that I can''t let cretins influence my vote. Some here are so pathetically weak.

[Mags]

167. Not me dearie. You have no idea what I have been thru or how strong or weak I am.

Talk about a hate spewer, nothing could hold a candle to you people.

[rodeodance]

41. I have read of accounts of mothers bringing their daughters to rallies--i do

think KO needs to stay as a journalist should. not the bias his has allowed himself to be consumed by.

[Freddie Stubbs]

226. He is not a journalist

He is a sportscaster/news anchor.

[susankh4]

42. Thanks for posting.

K&R

[Hieronymus]

43. What bullshit.

[Genevieve]

44. hillary being a woman has nothing do to with anything that's been said.

Didn't even Nancy Pelosi remark on hillary? Yes she did.

It's hillary's disgusting campaign that has everyone's eyes wide open.

End of Story.

[ClayZ]

Hang on to your hat!

Hear him out.

The larger lesson your daughters learn may be the most valuable.

[grrr050]

84. SHAME ON YOU KEITH!

It's a good thing I stop watching KO a month ago. I dont have to listen to his self-serving crap. I bet the Obamabites are going to watch COMPLETE with cheering squadS. Too bad, this dosage vile commentary from KO is not going to querst their taste for Hillary-hate. They'll be clamoring for more..more...more.....Patethic.

[ClayZ]

101. Shift happens, even if you are not watching!

Hate has nothing to do with it.

[NorthernSpy]

45. "illusory offensive racism"

Like millions of people just happen to keep hallucinating the same thing at the same time.


:eyes:


Lame.

[redqueen]

103. I don't remember anyone at DU thinking it wasn't racist when Rush said it about Donovan McNabb. (nt)

[Ian_rd]

48. Weaker and weaker the defenses of Clinton become ...

Now you're reducing yourself to "all criticism of Hillary = oppression of women" and "don't make my daughter feel bad." This is what a downward spiral looks like.

[rodeodance]

52. REC

[Catherina]

54. For my daughter's sake go there Keith

Accusing people of sexism to mask political hypocrisy is the most shameful thing that happened this campaign. For my daughter's sake, keep telling the truth. I don't want her to grow up into a conniving woman who manipulates facts and people's feelings for her own gain.

Do it for my daughter, the daughters of all of Hillary's victims in Iraq and the four little girls who died in the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church bombing.

Thank you Keith.

[DearAbby]

55. Dont go there?

Give your daughter some rose colored glasses. Tell her life is just great, there is no such thing as Racism. Tune into the propaganda of Democrats never do wrong...and don't ever, ever say anything negative about the Clintons. Specifically Hillary.

I can not believe people are overlooking the blatant bigotry of Geraldine Ferraro's statements (<< note the plural)I guess you can be a woman, and white, to get away with that...only in America.

[golddigger]

60. Great post...K&R

[Lucky 13]

65. Keith did not turn on you. You turned on Keith.

We commended this man for speaking the truth about Bush and the Republicans. Suddenly NOW he's not worthy of your respect because he doesn't support your candidate or her awful tactics. Keith didn't turn on you. You turned on him.

When are you people going to begin to face reality? This whole "Everyone is crazy but Hillary supporters" thing you have going on is not only sad and scary, but laughable. You ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, all these people that you used to respect aren't crazy for not going along with whatever Hillary does? Michael Moore, Howard Dean, Tom Daschle, Gary Hart, Caroline Kennedy, Ted Kennedy, (and the list goes on) can't possibly have all become mentally ill at the same time! You respected these people for years, but will throw them all under the bus for Hillary?

Please attempt to be logical here. If people are turning on Hillary, maybe that's because there are some very good reasons to do so.

[ProSense]

66. Hillary never rejected or denounced the "gang bang" statement either

I hope KO brings this up.

[Nederland]

67. For my daughter sake, I hope Hillary loses

The last thing I want to happen is for the first female president this country has ever had to have gotten there merely because of who her husband is. Do you doubt this is true? Consider the following. Do you know who Margaret Thatcher, first Prime Minister of Great Britain is? Do you know who Indira Gandhi, first Prime Minister of India is? Do you know who Golda Meir, first Prime Minister of Israel is? Do you know who Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany is?

Great. Do you know the names of their husbands? Didn't think so.

When Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister, her husband was instructed to always walk three or four steps behind her so when the cameras followed her he'd be out of the frame. That way every appearance, every event, every picture the public ever saw of her was of her and her alone. Her administration made a concerted and deliberate effort to send a clear message: Margaret Thatcher and Margaret Thatcher alone is the leader of this country. She needs help from no man.

What kind of message does Hillary send when she uses Bill to introduce her, Bill to raise money for her, Bill to act as the attack dog for her? It sends a message that she can't do it on her own, she needs help. Hillary Clinton is an insult to strong women everywhere, and I pray to God my daughter will never see her as a role model for anything.

[Divernan]

485. Excellent examples - keep posting them in relevant threads the next few months.

Your examples point out that the US is behind the rest of both the first and third world countries in electing women leaders to their top spots. Unfortunately, HRC is damaging truly competent, INDEPENDENT women politicians by running an ineptly managed campaign - she can't control her campaign finances, her husband's behavior/comments (nothing new there), her supporter's race-baiting, her advisors' infighting, etc.

I don't always agree with Nancy Peolosi's decisions, but bygod, she deports herself with dignity and professionalism. She is secure enough to look her age - instead of buying in, as Hillary has done, to paying thousands of dollars for a Hollywood makeup consultlant to use makeup and the newest generation of Botox to take every single wrinkle, puff or sag out of her face. She looks like Shirley Jones in the early Partridge family years. HRC has also paid thousands to speech coaches - witness the constantly arched eyebrows, the exaggerated facial expressions, the oh-so-delighted smiles and waves and fingers pointing to the audience as if she just recognized her closest friend. This is one of the strategies used by drama coaches to get the politician through that long walk to the front of the stage, etc.

To me it's Barbie doll politics - and you NEVER SAW Maggie Thatcher or Indira Ghandi pull that kind of BS. They were stateswomen, with appropriate gravitas and dignity. Clinton, with her emphasis on looking young and with the fake smiles, and well timed tears, and bullying people around because of her husband's name and power, is a helluva lot closer to Imelda Marcos, than to Angela Merkel or Golda Meir.

[jenmito]

68. That's a ridiculous letter. If OBAMA had stooped to such tactics and Olbermann called him on it,

which he WOULD, you'd be CHEERING him for it! :eyes:

[flyarm]

72. Thank you , from a lady who fought all my life for the rights of women to not have to work or deal

with sexism in the workplace or anywhere else.

I will never watch KO again..because of his sexism.

but more because he is not being professional, but a pundit for one particular candidate..

I find that repulsive.

fly

[Exilednight]

73. You expect Olbermann to take this seriously after insulting people? I mean, seriously.......

what would make him not just toss this into the trash after getting past a handful sentences?

Personally I would look at the first two sentences and see that you no longer watch and throw it away. If you're not watching, why would he bother to listen to you?

Poorly thought out message written by someone who is attempting to play victim.

[Alexander]

76. Still bitter that Edwards ran a bad campaign and lost?

[saracat]

82. Deflect much?

[EmilyAnne]

77. For everyone's daughter, Keith, please go there. Keep up the good work. We need you.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

78. I think Keith took it personally when Tweety and Schuster...

got nailed for their blatently sexist comments. He nailed a target to Hillary's forhead and has been throwing darts ever since.

[jenmito]

Hillary played the fear card just like Bush. I bet you CHEERED when Keith gave a special comment

about BUSH using fear tactics. Just because Hillary's a female doesn't give her a free pass. Same with all the race-card being played by Hillary's camp. You can't defend it when it's pointed out for ONE person but not another.

[KoKo]

235. I think Jack Welch set them straight. as to GE's Policy....he still runs the show

from the "sidelines." The "Silent Hand."

[John Q. Citizen]

80. Hillary injecting racism into the primaries is dangerous for women and children

Injecting sexism into any news commentary that calls your candidate out on injecting racism is dishonest.

I find it telling that the author already knows what instructions she will give her daughter before even seeing the commentary.

She won't ask her daughter for her opinion, her impressions. No. she will tell her how she should think about what they will see, whatever it may be.

This author is doomed to a life of disappointment. I wouldn't be a bit surprized if her daughter didn't go to work on Obama's re-election campaign when she's 16. Just to piss off her pathic overly controlling mother.

[marions ghost]

179. DITTO there's too much control going on here...

after teaching her daughter "Keith good, we watch Keith." She now teaches her "Keith said things I don't agree with. Keith bad. Never watch."

She needs to let her daughter continue to watch Keith but point out where she (Mom) disagrees with him. (and I'm sure there are still some points of agreement). Let the daughter decide for herself and learn how to discriminate instead of knee-jerk rejection. Way too controlling....

Kids have away of paying parents back for that degree of over-control ...there will be rebellion at some point.

However I thank the OP for giving us the opportunity to express our views on her perspective by posting it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

81. Excellent post!

[ProSense]

127. It's moronic! n/t

[Quixote1818]

83. Keith hasn't changed. Hillary has some of her supporters brainwashed. nt

[Shakespeare]

87. She begins with the FALSE PREMISE that the racism is "illusory."

It's quite real, and I imagine Olbermann will illustrate that tonight in whatever he says in the special comment.

As for the "leave Hillary alone" nonsense, she doesn't get a free ride just because she's a woman, and any criticism of her isn't automatically sexist. And I'm getting VERY tired of reading that here (and I'm a woman, btw).

Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone's current edition very effectively outlines how the cries of sexism against Hillary are mostly untrue; I suggest you give it a read.

Olbermann is not the enemy. Obama is not the enemy. Right now, the most insidious villain in this campaign is coded language, and it's of the racist variety, not the sexist variety.

[malik flavors]

88. Can somebody give me an example of Olberman being sexist? Am I missing something?

[Judge_Mental]

97. Don't you get it?

Questioning Hillary is sexist.

At least it would appear that way.

[canuk1]

91. IT HAS TO BE SAID

Anyone who thinks women have been treated worse than blacks is an idiot with the brain the size of a peanut. I feel sorry for your daughters. I hope they will ignore everything you teach them about history. Women are the n word of the world. Really? Did they murder women in Mississipi who were trying to vote? Did women have to sit at the back of the bus or drink from a seperate fountain? Did they sick dogs on women and use fire hoses on them? Black women yes, but not white women. Have women been mistreated over the years? Of course, but not on the same scale as black people. Get real. When the Clintons make a mistake just admitt it and move on. Obama has done that by firing people on his team who have stepped over the line. Why can't Hillary do that? I don't get it.

[ProSense]

108. This should be a thread! Excellent rebuttal to this despicably lame OP.

Welcome canuk1.

[Cali_Democrat]

173. Exactly. n/t.

[fight4my3sons]

223. welcome to DU!

and thanks for saying it :thumbsup:

[RestoreGore]

92. Personally, I've always thought Keith Olberman thinks too much of himself

Edward R. Murrow he ain't.

[Drachasor]

93. Did Olbermann say what he was talking about, beyond some Hillary-related statement?

Because it seems premature to denounce him and his statements he has not yet made.

[TacticalPeek]

94. What you said.

:kick:

& R

[anamandujano]

95. Keith should start with "From the men's locker room," tonight and

every night.

Thanks for the post. REC.

[SoFlaJet]

96. and here was Keith DEFENDING HRC in a Special Comment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mDyZ40AJYg

[karynnj]

100. When the message from a campaign is that they will throw the kitchen sink at the primary opponent

most likely to be the parties nominee, it is NOT sexist to call them on their behavior. If there were a male version of HRC doing and saying the same things, I would be just as disgusted. I am sick of the faux feminist clap trap that anyone who is against HRC is against her because they are sexist. She really is not most intelligent, skilled, eloquent, creative, imaginative, experienced candidate we ever had. Far from it. Others may see different things in other candidates - and when we integrate over everything important to us - fing that it's not HRC. Me, I find Obama more honest, less corrupt, more inspiring and - looking at his short time in the Senate - I see more significant accomplishments. I know you don't agree with me - and that's your right. I don't say it is because you are racist - I never saw any sign of that so it would be as stupid as it is wrong. Why then to you post things saying that people who pick Obama are sexist. I know I'm not.

[saltpoint]

351. Bartender -- send a cold beer over to karynnj's table.

And make it snappy.

[AllexxisF1]

104. Funny....everyone else is wrong but you are right?

[Mz Pip]

106. A bit premature

since we haven't heard KO's Special Comment yet.

But that is beside the point. Here's a reality check. Your daughter will have to confront and come to terms with many things in her life that she may disagree with or find offensive. THat's reality. The world is not a compliant place and the world of politics is filled with all kinds of mine fields. Get used to it.

[redqueen]

107. What has Keith said that's sexist? Someone please enlighten me...

And body language? Really? What is *that* about?

[scheming daemons]

116. He's had the nerve to call Hillary on her bullshit... that makes him a sexist in the OP's eyes...

...

[Umbram]

149. Exactly. (nt)

[malik flavors]

109. Women are the n-words of the world? Yea. Way to look at things objectively.

So what if KO doesn't want to vote for Hillary. THAT MAKES HIM SEXIST?? Freaking looneys.

[ProSense]

124. Yeah, the only way to prove something is not racism is to embrace it! n/t

[LulaMay]

447. That is an old feminist saying. All women are kept down and do the sh*t work for men, the 'masters'

[Splinter Cell]

111. Get a life!

I'm sick and tired of people bashing Olbermann. He's one of the only people on television news that is neutral. Just because he talks about your candidate and tells it like it is, doesn't mean he's biased or sexist or anything else. He does the same for everyone.


Some folks live in their own little world I guess.

[burythehatchet]

112. SOMEONE CALL CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!!111!!one!!

[leftofcool]

117. Are you kidding me?

What the hell is wrong with people like you

[rodeodance]

119. Snarky comments such as yours are beyond the pale.

burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Mar-12-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
112. SOMEONE CALL CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!!111!!one!!

[jgraz]

145. Well, maybe that's a bit of a stretch

But I hope RiverD's got a good chunk of change set aside for therapy expenses. That poor little girl...

[emilyg]

113. K&R thank you.

[sfam]

120. I agree. Hillary and her surrogates SHOULD be able to say whatever they want. Who are we to..

tell her otherwise. After all, Obama isn't even qualified to be president and is only where he is because he's black. Whereas Hillary deserves to be president. Shame on all those nasty men for trying to steal this from Hillary? Obama should quit, as should McCain. End the farce now - Give her the presidency she rightly deserves. But if you aren't willing to do this, the least you can do is let her slime whoever she needs to get what is rightly hers.

[theboss]

122. Tell your daughter not to have a sense of entitlement like Hillary does

That is the fundamental problem in her campaign. She is pissed that someone dared to challenge her. She wanted all Dems to clear the decks and Obama not only challenged her, but he out-campaigned her, out-fundraised her, out-inspired her, and out-strategized her.

And he is really pissed that he had the audacity to do this.

[Bright Eyes]

123. ....

"And every time you and Tweety and Obama and David Axelrod go off on the Clinton campaign like this without curbing your own speech"

So, the solution is to curb Olbermann's free speech? Sounds awfully Republican.

[quiet.american]

128. Not for nothing, but note to the OP -- "African-American" should not be spelled in lower caps.

The rest of the OP I find frighteningly silly.

[Nia Zuri]

129. No blacks are the n*****er of the world.

You are so blinded by the fact that she is a woman that you are willing to overlook reprehensible conduct. Not a good example at all for Brook. Geraldine Ferraro said almost the exact same this about Jesse Jackson in 1988. She is a vile racist, she actually believe that blacks have no business aspiring to be president but it's okay to get their votes. Sickening. Please, please, please wake up!

[GumboYaYa]

130. Crying sexism as a defense to Ferraro's blatantly racist comments does two things,

it demeans and diminishes the suffering from all the real sexism that women all over the world suffer daily AND

it implicitly condones hideously racist statements.

I am amazed to see so many DUers in favor of vicious racism.

[Umbram]

157. Women are incapable of racism.

Calling a woman racist automatically makes one a sexist. Sexists aren't in the position to call anybody a racist, so, you see - no woman can be a racist.

[ExtraGriz]

131. his arrogant pompous holier than thou attitude

turned me off a long time ago...

[BlueJac]

410. You are a sad person.....

KO has been a hero to liberals!

[leftofcool]

132. Attention Riverdaughter

You should cut and paste this entire thread and email it to the Obama Campaign. I think he would be interested in seeing some of the quotes made by his supporters, in particular the one made about "calling child services"

[Political Heretic]

133. There's nothing more dispicable than masking the campaigns failure in gender baiting

I'd like to tell her daughter how people use gender as a political tactic to dismiss legitimate criticism and demonize detractors and opposition rather than having substantive debate.

[jgraz]

159. Sure there is. How about using your daughter as a human shield for your own twisted gender politics?

I think that's quite a bit more despicable.

[Independent-Voter]

273. No kidding - this is one twisted fuck of an OP

[jgraz]

285. Saracat is cool, she's just quoting someone who isn't

Hillary is making all kinds of people go nuts.

[Liquorice]

134. Great letter. It is beyond disgusting the way the MSM

have treated Hillary's candidacy, although I can't say I'm that surprised. I know a couple originally from France who are close friends of my family. This older French man has told me repeatedly that American culture is extremely sexist. I guess I believed him in theory, but having been born and raised here, it's not always easy to see. But I see it now, and it's a real shame. The sexism is so endemic that many American women can't even see it and buy right into it (and even participate in it), as well. It's very sad.

KO is one of the worst offenders. He seems to have lost his senses and jumped on the Hillary hatred bandwagon. I suppose it gives him viewers, just the way Fox's hatred of all things Clinton gave them ratings in the 90's. I haven't watched KO's misogynistic show in quite some time, and I never will again.

In looking over some of the responses you got to this post, I am shocked at the way Obama supporters have latched onto the idea that the Clintons are racist. This is utterly absurd and speaks to their mindset--if it seems like it's a winning argument for Obama, no matter how baseless and unfair, go for it! The Clintons are no racists. Bill Clinton's economic plans brought more AA's out of poverty than at any time in US history. That is not a racist. Hillary has done a lot of work for the AA community, including working for desegregation in the South. That is no racist. I wonder what these people screaming "racists" have done for the AA community. Shame on anyone who would take such a serious issue as the charge of racism and use it simply as a way to score political points on an opponent.

[zarath]

217. That's rich coming from France

which has practically epitomized modern "soft" sexism and racism.

But just for the sake of argument, can you point out any statements or actions of KO that are sexist?

[rodeodance]

389. The charge of racism has become so common place on this board--looks at these responses!!

Shame on anyone who would take such a serious issue as the charge of racism and use it simply as a way to score political points on an opponent.

[jgraz]

141. This is really going round the bend, saracat.

The writer's contempt for "Barry" is obvious from the start. Olbermann has every right to call'em as he sees'em, just like Sam Seder, Thom Hartmann, Randi Rhodes, Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, Laura Flanders, Mike Malloy, Rachel Maddow, David Bender and Cenk Uygar have been doing.

Are you saying ALL of them should just shut up and stop reporting the obvious for the sake of women everywhere?

[jean627]

151. Leave Hillary Alone!!

Wah...What a joke.

IMO, Hillary is becoming a laughing stock - NOT someone that I want my daughter to look up to. And, as a woman, NOT someone that I look up to.

IMO, this River person should be writing to Hillary and telling Hillary, please don't go there, please stop playing "victim", please stop being a weak woman who has to resort to dirty tricks and dishonesty. Geesh!!

[knixphan]

307. bingo, jean!

[SeaLyons]

152. Excellent Post

Absolutely excellent.


:kick:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

153. I really hope he does, since I might have kids one day. n/t

[Hutzpa]

154. This post sounds like a blackmail

to me, so because of your daughter, Keith should not do what is right.....:puke: how despicable
can this get, using your daughter as a form of a blackmail.

In Keith words....get a life lady!

[femrap]

413. Do you like your daughter?

Your mom? Or are they just there to make you feel comfy?

Do you work at being stupid? Get a brain, boy.

[Hutzpa]

529. ????

What a condescending and lackluster of a response, goes to show how
pathetic and denigrating your attempt is at perusing my comment, but
to follow it up with a lame attack exposes you to being an empty headed
fart.

Just hoped someone was home, on that note, I have no choice but to refrain
myself from being caught up in your world/moment.

Cheerio!!!


:hi:

[femrap]

531. You didn't answer the question.....

I'll take that as a 'rather have had a son.'

Ta-ta.

[Hutzpa]

554. Oh, I'm sorry

must have been obfuscated, didn't realize those where question
that needed answering, why don't you try being clearer next time
and you will get a direct answer from me.

All the same, i'll try and satisfy your ego, and no, I don't agree
with anyone using their kids to make their point, especially when
it comes to negotiating or PLEADING as the OP was doing, thats the
reason for my response.

Using your child to bargain or must I add plead to prevent a commentator
from commenting on a crucial issues is not a sensible thing to do, it
exposes you as an opportunist and an irresponsible parent.

Now, I personally would not use my daughter or for that matter my mother
as a form of negotiating....but thats just me....:shrug: , not that I
expect you to understand.

[femrap]

555. Crucial issue was sexism...and that certainly

affects her daughter. You don't care to enlighten yourself on how the 'other' views the world...so you just keep your consciousness hidden in a dark orifice so you can continue to exist in your status quo world of smug dullness.

I won't see your response, so don't bother boring anyone else.

[SeaLyons]

155. K&R

[zulchzulu]

160. I hope you're not using Hillary as a role model for your daughter

What Hillary Clinton has done in her campaign has been nothing short of tragic. Turn her on to Barbara Boxer or even Nancy Pelosi.

[LisaM]

162. Dear Saracat, thank you. You are completely correct.

And I think your daughter is going to be just fine when she grows up!

[Debi]

164. Who is Barry? n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

177. Bonds?

Keith REALLY hates him!

[Debi]

194. Well, Keith is gonna have to get in line for that one! n/t

[Umbram]

166. Wow, two of your heroes disagree. Maybe it's time to give up on hero worship? (nt)

[Pyrzqxgl]

168. I originally supported Edwards then he quit & I voted for Obama in Ca.

Fact is I'm becoming increasingly sorry I did (God, I miss John Edwards).
To much bickering and now KO taking sides. The media should report the
news & keep their opinions to themselves. I must admit I don't watch KO
as much as I did either.

[Sterling]

462. I am also tired of the "opinions" of news people.

They need to get to the business of reporting the facts as accurately as possibly and quit telling us all what to think, who to support etc...... That is what thinking people would prefer. It's the dittohead mentality that seems to have infected even people in our party. Most pukes are so confused at this point that they have no idea what is going on. They hate McCain but don't really know why, they hate HC and don't really know why, they have just been told to do so so they do. Somehow some of them think that Obama is preferable to their interests than HC and that seems very strange given Obama could possibly be more liberal than HC on many issues dittoheads have been told what to think about. I see that happening to our party as well, mostly as a reaction to the dittoheads but it is just as dangerous.

I just hope whoever our nominee is surprises me and rises above the frey to serve the entire country well, not just a faction.

[Umbram]

169. Thump thump. Thump thump.

And there you have it folks. The H.C. wagon has just ran over Olbermann after taking a sharp left turn to run over Pelosi. Who is next? Or better yet, who isn't?

[Ashy Larry]

170. Its tough love.

Keith cares about you and your daughter. Sometimes the truth hurts.

[Avalux]

178. Keith calls a spade a spade. He's one of the only 'true' newscasters out there.

I am very sorry you disagree with his decision to comment on Hillary's campaign and I wish you could be objective and realize he isn't doing it because he has some personal agenda against her.

Truth is - Hillary Clinton is destroying the Democratic party because she refuses to accept the fact that she's going to lose the nomination and refuses to play by the rules. Once all is said and done, if she somehow manages to cheat her way to the nomination, how many Democrats will feel good voting for her? How many will stay home because she soured their stomachs?

Tell your daughter to watch something else besides Keith tonite. Then find her another role model other than Hillary Clinton. I certainly don't want any of my three daughters emulating her deceptive tactics when they grow up.

[Spazito]

180. Well, I taught my children, one of each gender, to stand up against

racist, sexist, homophobic actions or speech. I DIDN'T teach them to do that while putting their gender FIRST, their RACE first, their SEXUAL ORIENTATION first. I taught them how to recognize and respond to discrimination by condemning it, full stop.

My children learned well and stand up for equality, equality and equal rights for all and condemning discrimination of ANYONE.

Allowing one form of discrimination while decrying another teaches children nothing of substance and, indeed, limits their thinking and reasoning, imo.

[murbley40]

182. BRAVO!!

[Bethany Rockafella]

183. Interesting.

I read DU a lot instead of post. If I remember correctly, aren't you anti-Hillary?

[Milo_Bloom]

185. Yes, Heaven for fend poor Brook should hear the truth.. LOL

Just remember to say LA LA LA LA LA LA when you hold your hands over her ears.

[JPZenger]

186. Funny Satire: Olbermann You are dead to me now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4968339&mesg_id=4968339

Excerpts and paraphrase:

"I used to really respect Keith, and watched his show regularly.
He was intelligent and entertaining. He provided a anti-establishment perspective I could not find anywhere else on TV. But now his TRUE self has been revealed.

Olberman is a sexist Hillary Hater.
He kept his Hillary Hatred and Sexism hidden for years just so he could attack Hillary!!!!

I now REFUSE to watch Countdown and am writing the bosses at MSNBC demanding that it taken OFF the AIR.

Also DEAD to me NOW:

*Randi Rhodes...DEAD to me NOW.
I used to like her outspoken, irreverent commentary and the way she handled Freepers.
She used to be a REAL Democrat and helped the Democratic Party always....but she too has turned into a sexist Hillary Hater.

Ed Schultz....DEAD to me now.
I used to really like Ed Schultz. He was a moderate, "Centrist" Democrat who seemed to be about pulling the Party together.....but he is really just a sexist NeoCon operative who was planted years ago so that he could stop Hillary from getting the Presidency she deserves!

Rachael Maddow....DEAD to me now.
It was really disappointing to find out that Rachael was really just another sexist Hillary Hater. She seemed so intelligent and strong willed..... You would think that Rachael would support the First Woman President...but NO... her obvious anti-Hillary sexist bigotry has floated to the top.

Cenk Uygar ... is DEAD to me now. I used to think your Young Turks show on Air America was funny, but now it is just mean because you were mean to Hillary.

Sam Seder ... is DEAD to me now. You used to be so fair-minded to Hillary, but now you said she is using a scorched earth policy of her vs. McCain, by claiming Obama is not qualified. That is so sexist.

Thom Hartmann....is DEAD to me now.
I cannot listen to someone who spews vile sexist Hillary Hatred. He thinks HISTORY and FACTS matter, and that it is NOT a good thing to endorse the Republican nominee!

...I WILL listen ONLY to Rush Limbaugh!
Rush Limbaugh has showed that he is open minded.
I used to think that Rush was a sexist and a bigot, but I NOW see that I was wrong. Rush has also been telling everyone to Vote for Hillary in the Primaries and helped her get hundreds of thousands of votes in Ohio and Texas.

I NOW like Rush Limbaugh, and will be listening to his show daily to get the REAL truth!

[knixphan]

187. Go there, Keith. Go there.

Some of us get it.

The only 'side' Keith takes is that of democracy and civility.

Anyone who violates the principles of either, whether they be black, white, male or female... deserves appropriate scrutiny.

Sons AND daughters need to learn about what NOT to do when running for office.

Get out the laundry detergent.

[eridani]

188. For your daughters sake, you'd better hope that Clinton quits pushing Rethug memes

She may have made the ad that will put McCain in the White House no matter who wins our primary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5036473&mesg_id=5036473

[Hoof Hearted]

189. Awesome and AMEN. Fuck his macho, sports-club, circle-jerk mentality.

I actually quit watching him BEFORE he started bashing Hillary. His recent buffoonery only serves to validate the decision I'd already made. Keith doesn't respect women in general unless they sit there and nod along with every single thing he says - and that's not really respect, is it?

Keith is an ass, and the Obama campaign has served as a drop of metaphorical water on the ACME box of his ass-hattery in the cartoon that "Countdown" has become.

[AllexxisF1]

200. Yea..

Yea I guess the fact he has Rachel on literally every day now just makes him a true knuckle dragging sexist.


GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK.


You scream for equality but the second someone shoves her bullshit right to her Chevy Chase all of a sudden it's sexist.


Hillary does not deserve this nomination nor does she deserve any respect from anyone for the way she has ran her campaign.

[Hoof Hearted]

207. And she nods her head in agreement with everything he says just like a "good woman."

I didn't make KO into a knuckle-dragging ass-wipe, he did, and he did it BEFORE he started blatantly prostituting himself for the Obama campaign.

[sfam]

209. Wow, now Rachael Madow is a misogynist too????

You all are really too much. Disagreement that Hillary is Goddess = misogyny. OK...

[Hoof Hearted]

253. You're modeling the trite cliche you've seen oft repeated here but it simply doesn't fit

in this case. I was disgusted by Olbermann BEFORE he jumped on the Obama bandwagon. Quite a while before that actually.

Try not to stretch your bubblegum to the moon please. You commit an egregious fallacy of logic when you imply that I think RM is a misogynist. I said nothing of the sort as I've not seen such behavior from her, only him.

[sfam]

287. So she's just a "good woman nodding her head, ey" That's much better.

Or were you referring to someone else there?

[Hoof Hearted]

398. For KO's purposes, yes. She agrees fully with him on all matters.

It's why she is chosen, one of the very, very few females chosen, to participate in his locker-room circle jerk.

I do NOT say that she agrees with him BECAUSE of any wish or direction on his part. I say she is chosen as the token female contributor because he already knows that she agrees with him.

He has become the Bill O'Reilly of the left.

[Dinger]

301. Would Keith Have Someone On Who DISagrees With Him?

Sort of a point, counterpoint?

[Raffi Ella]

191. .

:patriot:

thank you.

[grantcart]

193. well it certainly is refreshing to see that you have kept an open mind on the matter

[AGirl]

195. This is very true

"every time you and Tweety and Obama and David Axelrod go off on the Clinton campaign like this without curbing your own speech and body language, you reinforce that message. "

K and R

[stillcool]

197. For our country's sake...

Please go there Keith!

[Pisces]

201. I have daughters too and take the opposite view. You can't do whatever it

takes to win and send the right message. I would never want Clinton representing how a woman succeeds for my girls. No thank you, go get her Keith. Speak the truth.

[immoderate]

202. I've read every post so far, and I'm wondering, where's the sexism?

Nobody has offered anything KO did that was sexist. I heard about his "attitude" and his "body language"(??!!) but :wtf: are you all talking about?

I'd hate to think that DUers could be so wrong, but it sure seems like people are saying that not supporting Hillary is automatically sexist. Well that's stupid.

--IMM

[IndianaJones]

203. so his audience goes from 200 to 180. He doesn't care. nt.

[nickn777]

206. And the disgraceful way that Clinton is running her campaign is what you are teaching your daughter?

[Tom Joad]

213. No one is going to argue that? Hillary and Geraldine are doing just that

in their little crazy minds, Hillary can't win because of "black privilege"

Can't we just reject Hillary because of racism and reactionary record (and that of her spouse), and not her gender.

[Tom Joad]

215. hundreds of thousands of Mothers mourn their daughters and sons in Iraq,

Hillary should not have said yes to that war.

[rodeodance]

387. and you should go start your own thread instead of SPAM this one by changing the subject!

[AtomicKitten]

220. TRUTH will prevail whether you like it or not.

Hillary continues to play the VICTIM card, running a vile campaign at the same time hiding behind her gender to deflect all incoming criticism.

Keith is about to call bullshit on that noise.

[truebrit71]

222. Funny, my daughter and I watch him because he has the GUTS and the INTEGRITY to stand up to the...

...bullies and the thugs...

Your post is complete and total horseshit. He will be talking about her use of fear and racism to further her particular agenda which is to get herself elected NO MATTER THE COST. There is nothing illusory about the racism uttered by Ms Ferraro, nor in the methods employed by Hillary. It is very real, and very hurtful.

It doesn't matter whether Ms Ferraro is female, male or trans-gendered, the words she used her hateful and racist. And HRC is just as culpable for not having IMMEDIATELY distanced herself from them and terminated Ms. Ferraro on the spot.

And let me give you a nickels worth of free advice, everytime women claim sexism simply for being criticised, it actually does you MORE harm than good...

[kenfrequed]

227. This...

This is what comes of letting the media pick our top two candidates for us.

[avrdream]

228. Thank you for bringing that here, saracat.

I agree with riverdaughter's sentiment exactly. We have finally found out just how sexist some of our previous heroes really are.

[Diane R]

230. Fine. Teach your girl to be a victim. This isn't about feminism, it's about integrity.

[butterfly77]

231. Please, go there Keith..

I think its time...

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

232. Ferraro is a bigot

"But if you think you can paint Geraldine Ferraro as a racist because of an unfortunate proximity of the word “lucky” to the word “black” or paint the Clintons, who are life long advocates of healing the racial divide as being latent Klan members, you will find out that it will backfire in the most spectacular way."

Ferraro got her mulligan when she made the same racist comment about Jesse Jackson in 1988...

[MasonJar]

238. I hope that you sent this to Keith; he needs to see it.

[Norwood]

244. Please go there Keith and continue to go there if necessary

I'm absolutely blown away by some of you Hillary supporters. Someone else earlier in this thread and I apologize I don't remember the name put it brilliantly when they said, it reminds them of the rabid Bush supporters and Republicans as a whole that equated disagreement with being unpatriotic. This is the same damn thing except now if you're not for Hillary and don't agree with her tactics then you're a sexist.

Its laughable and it blows me away that the majority of the people on this board don't call these supporters out on this bull shit! Keith never claimed to be on our side anyway, hes always been a "I call at as I see it" type of journalist and thats why I think he's so great. In fact I find it refreshing when he calls out someone on the left when its deserved.

The letter in the OP made me laugh. It was hard to take seriously because it was so over the top. I really feel for rivers daughter because shes gonna grow up to think that just because shes female the world somehow owes her something. Hopefully her father is around to tilt the scales a bit.

I want to offer up a challenge. To those who cry sexism whenever Hillary is criticized, please give us examples. Give us quotes, a video clip, or something don't just cry sexism because you're acting no different than a lot of Republicans when you do.

[Beacool]

246. One thing that this election has definitely proven is that sexism trumps racism.

For a whole year now the media has received tacit approval from the public at large to make sexist comments after sexist comments about Hillary. From her laughter, to her weight, age, hair, clothes and even her cleavage. Where was the outrage then?

Obama HAS been lucky, the media has given him a free ride and few dare to question him because the racist label is hang from their necks.

Bill Clinton says that Obama's stance on the Iraq war is a "fairy tale" = Racist

Hillary says that MLK's dreams became a reality when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 = Racist

Bill responds to a reporter by saying that Jesse Jackson had won SC twice in the 80s = Racist

People mention Obama's middle name = all a bunch of racists

Etc., etc., etc.........

Now it's Gerry's turn. How many Democrats who have fought for civil rights when Obama was still in kindergarten must fall under the sword?

Saracat, do as I do: Don't bother watching any of the cable channels, particularly MSNBC. I now only get my news from PBS and C-Span or on the internet.

Good luck to you and your daughter.

[WolverineDG]

248. So equal rights means women get passes for making racist comments?

Not in my book.

We can't achieve equal rights so long as we also demand special treatment.

dg

[Dinger]

254. Damn, That Says It All A Sad K & R From Me

[NDambi]

255. Awww heavens..woe is me and woe is my daughter

[NMMatt]

258. That letter is more offensive than anything Olbermann has said. -nt

[BuyingThyme]

259. I had a thread locked because I referenced this article.

The contention is apparently that Riverdaughter is a DUer or something (and my post was thus a callout).

Does anybody know if that's true? Is Riverdaughter a DUer?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5042525&mesg_id=5042525

[AZBlue]

262. I'm sick of this "big bad men vs. pitiful little women" ploy

First of all, any woman who buys into it is being self-defeatist. To expect discrimination and obstacles based solely on race these days is to get it. I work in a company where the old-boy network is alive and well, but it's never stopped me, not once. If it ever does, I'll go straight to HR. But until then I march ahead as if no one's going to get in my way - and you know what? They don't?

Life is not a popularity contest filled with cheerleaders everyone you look screaming your name. You want something, go for it, no mater what race or gender you are. If someone stops you, deal with it accordingly. But don't whine and moan about what might happen just because you're too scared to put yourself out on a limb. That's the complete opposite of feminism.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for Keith Olbermann specifically, I don't have a crystal ball (apparently riverdaughter thinks she does) so I don't know what he'll say tonight. But I've never once heard him say anything sexist about anyone, including Sen. Clinton. If he has, please enlighten me with a post. Otherwise, please remember that not liking Clinton and/or her tactics does not automatically equal sexism and to even imply that it does is inane and a slap in the face to women everywhere.

[madrchsod]

263. who`s "barry"?

[AZBlue]

264. I'm SO sick of this "big bad men vs. pathetic helpless little women" ploy!

First of all, any woman who buys into it is being self-defeatist. To expect discrimination and obstacles based solely on race these days is to get it. I work in a company where the old-boy network is alive and well, but it's never stopped me, not once. If it ever does, I'll go straight to HR. But until then I march ahead as if no one's going to get in my way - and you know what? They don't?

Life is not a popularity contest filled with cheerleaders everyone you look screaming your name. You want something, go for it, no mater what race or gender you are. If someone stops you, deal with it accordingly. But don't whine and moan about what might happen just because you're too scared to put yourself out on a limb. That's the complete opposite of feminism.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for Keith Olbermann specifically, I don't have a crystal ball (apparently riverdaughter thinks she does) so I don't know what he'll say tonight. But I've never once heard him say anything sexist about anyone, including Sen. Clinton. If he has, please enlighten me with a post. Otherwise, please remember that not liking Clinton and/or her tactics does not automatically equal sexism and to even imply that it does is inane and a slap in the face to women everywhere.

[dchill]

268. So, because Keith is a man, he has to right to "go there"...

"there" is about the lies and smears employed by the Clinton campaign, most of whom are men.

[cooolandrew]

269. Randi Rhodeson Keith, link..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3qOi_l1RGY

[Boxerfan]

270. I pitty your daughter...And you have to allow her to form her own decisions

Being "there' for her does not include forming her opinions. I am raising my daughters to be independent & truth tellers.

Whats harder is teaching them how to spot lies.

[Pisces]

276. Excellent post, we should not strive to form their opinions for them, but hope

that we have given them the right tools to know their own mind.

[against all enemies]

271. Stop lying to your daughter, Keith is telling the truth about things.

[cooolandrew]

272. The title is very emotive isn't it. Are we saying Barack won't have a woman VP?

A woman can make it that is for certian with Nancy Pelosi. Making it depends on education but also not being divisive. Hillary would of gained more votes appealing to men and women than just women. Barack's campaign and consistent message has been unity.

[npincus]

278. Buh-bye.

[The Doctor.]

281. It's not wise to instill such sexism into one's own daughter.

To tell her that KO is criticizing Clinton "because she's a woman" is an immensely false, shortsighted, and irresponsible thing to do as a parent.

This is a very sexist and childish letter.

[madmunchie]

282. Keep it up Keith! I used to be proud of and defend HRC, slowly over the years me and my DAUGHTERS

are embarrassed that HRC is the one breaking thru that glass ceiling and showing us how women can be just as power hungry, soul less and ruthless as any man.

Too bad she will be the POSTER child for the Republicans bashing the Democrats. She is showing that nothing matters except HER WINNING, she has had her surrogates say nasty things, she has said nasty things, she mis planned her campaign and just "took it for granted" that Super Tuesday would seal the deal for her.

I am very angry at HRC, she has really give us women and Democrats a bad name.

I applaud KO for calling her out on so many things that have evolved in this primary season. It is too bad that people get so narrow minded that all they see is HILLARY = 1ST WOMAN PRES. = DEMOCRATIC POTUS - - - MUST WIN!!!!!!!!! I don't care if the POTUS is a middle aged white man that is totally typical in every aspect of his physical characteristics. What I don't want is dirty politics as usual and political doublespeak and somebody obsessed with winning to the point that they will take anybody down if they pose a threat. I DON'T CARE THAT HRC IS A WOMAN AND THAT I AM A WOMAN my vote is based on more than that and worth more than that...please look beyond the obvious.

[JVS]

288. Did you think that Hillary could throw the kitchen sink at Obama and not be hit back?

[DS1]

289. He hasn't even said anything yet

Jeez!

[Johnny__Motown]

290. Hillary needs to answer for her actions, don't blame Keith, GO THERE KEITH for all our sakes

[roseBudd]

297. Actually white women weren't lynched, hosed, castrated, burned, all to cheering crowds

[dana_b]

300. yep. see post #299. n/t

[theHandpuppet]

320. You're only exposing your ignorance of history

I wouldn't go there.

[roseBudd]

346. Are you referring to the Salem Witch trials? Lets' compare numbers

The two courts convicted twenty-nine people of the capital felony of witchcraft. Nineteen of the accused, fourteen women and five men, were hanged. One man, refusing to enter a plea, was ordered to be crushed to death under heavy stones. At least five more of the accused died in prison.


Lynching during the late 19th century in the United States, Great Britain and colonies, coincided with a period of high imperialistic violence and religious inspired protest which denied people participation in white dominated society on the basis of race or gender after the Emancipation Act of 1833

Mob violence became a tool for enforcing white supremacy and verged on systematic political terrorism. "The Ku Klux Klan, paramilitary groups, and other whites united by frustration and anger ruthlessly defended the interests of the Democratic Party, the avowed party of white supremacy. The magnitude of extralegal violence during election campaigns reached epidemic proportions, leading the historian William Gillette to label it guerilla warfare.

Lynchings declined briefly, but the practice took hold again with a vengeance by the end of the 19th century. Tuskeegee Institute records of lynchings between the years 1880 and 1951 show 3437 African-American victims, as well as 1293 white victims, nearly all of whom were registered Republicans. The largest single lynching incident in America's history was the murder of 280 African Americans in Colfax, Louisiana in 1873 known as The Colfax Massacre.

The number of lynchings peaked at the end of the 19th century, but these kinds of murders continued into the 20th century. African Americans resisted through protests, marches, writing of articles, rebuttals of so-called justifications of lynching, organizing women's groups against lynching, and organizing integrated groups against lynching. In addition African American playwrights produced fourteen anti-lynching plays from 1916 to 1935, ten of them by women. The frequency of lynching dropped in the 1930s. Most but not all lynchings ceased during the 1960s, but there were some dramatic cases of civil rights workers lynched in Mississippi.

[Az_lefty]

298. he's just calling Hillary on her bullshit...like he does with everyone else

[RazBerryBeret]

303. "men in power are never to be trusted to consider anyone but themselves" ?

Is Hillary thinking about you or me when she tells the American Public that McCain is a better Presidential Candidate than Obama?
Is she thinking of the ramifications to the Democratic Party?
NO...she's thinking of how to get headlines and how to make her opponent look bad.

I'm from Ohio and I'm ticked that she won Ohio with Dirty Politics.....

Shame on You.....

[hell-bent]

304. What an intelligent, well written

post on Keith Olbermann. Thank you. I also thought Olbermann was the best thing on the nightly programs. I watched him faithfully every chance I had. Why would he not remain somewhat neutral in this Democratic primary? Sure, he could have his favorite candidate and give them a plug once in a while. But, his vicious attacks on the Clintons is way over the top. He now disgusts me. If he imagines himself as the next Edward R. Morrow, he is sadly mistaken. He and the POS Matthews are in the same boat.

[IsItJustMe]

308. Keith tells it like it is. You and your daughter should watch him and learn something about honesty

and integrity.

[NJSecularist]

311. "Because here’s the truth of the matter, Keith: Woman is the ni**er of the world"

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit one more time.

I'm never seen a more rephrensible statement in my life. If she actually believes that, that is scary.

[polichick]

313. The truth will set you free - and your daughter too.

[knixphan]

315. what we've learned from this primary is that we need more therapists.

There has been a lot of damage done to women by men.

There has been a lot of damage done to Afros by Euros.

both statements are true.

It's also possible that the office of President has nothing to do with either fact.

[Dinger]

316. Kickin' Again (nt)

[theHandpuppet]

319. Bravo!!!!!!!

Off to the front page with this one!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Richard D]

321. I'd love to see a woman as president.

But not someone who voted to give * war powers, whose hubby is buddy-buddy with * sr., and who isn't owned by the corporations.

[Hepburn]

324. Suggestion: Take some parenting classes.

You are totally clueless. I cannot believe you would stoop so low as to actually use your child to try and make political points. That is pretty disgusting.

[katandmoon]

326. I've stopped watching KO and not just because of Hillary

I can't take the constant haranguing -- and on most things I AGREE with him. But he's OBVIOUSLY part of the boy's club, and I'm sick and tired of it. Seriously, what is he going to do if Hillary DOES get the nomination?

[Usrename]

329. You may be delusional.

"she has *earned* more votes in more crucial states"

:wtf:

[LittleClarkie]

331. Your daughters have nothing to do with it, riverdaughter

My reasons for supporting Obama have nothing to do with Hillary's gender. And I will not support someone I find distasteful merely because that person is a woman. Now that really would be affirmative action.

[Roland99]

332. Oh for crying out loud. WAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!

Ever stop to think that people just don't like Hillary simply because she would be a horrible President regardless of her race, creed, color, religion, sexual orientation, eye color, favorite flavor of ice cream, etc.??


I, for one, don't give two shits that she's female. I loathe her and her policies. She's a spoiled brat that feels she's entitled to the Presidency.


Oh, and btw, FUCK THE DLC!!!

[knixphan]

514. seconded!

[Generic Brad]

333. Way to pre-judge

It's amazing how you knew exactly what he was going to say before it aired. I am impressed by your osmosis informed opinion.
:sarcasm:

[CTLawGuy]

337. I've never seen a bigger load of crap

in an elephant habitat at the zoo..

[Blondiegrrl]

342. I dunno. It's pretty close.

[CTLawGuy]

538. anyone wanna play king of the mountain?

no?..

[Blondiegrrl]

339. "Woman is the ni**er of the world?" You have got to be fucking kidding me.

As a woman, I take offense at your shrill, idiotic comments. Boohoohoo! Poor me! Waaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[Ellen Forradalom]

341. Read this thread! My God! Is this what we've become?

We're undone by our own identity politics! Shit! Women suffered more than blacks! No! Blacks suffered more! Racism! Sexism!

Sexism remains a REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT PROBLEM. And so does racism! We get there together or we don't get there at all!

[Tarheel_Dem]

345. It's a pity Gerry Ferraro doesn't understand that....nt

[mtnsnake]

344. Thank you for posting this!

:thumbsup:

[Faygo Kid]

347. I am glad you had Brook watch it with you. At 12, she can handle the truth.

You can spin Keith's words any way you want, but they were the truth. And the truth shall set you free. It's good that Brook was able to listen, whatever you told her about what she heard. Hearing the truth is always a good thing, and especially at 12.

[totodeinhere]

348. I hope that your daughter can get exposed to other opinions rather...

than only getting force fed your biases.

[tbyg52]

349. Hillary is being a jerk. I don't care what her sex is. nt

[saltpoint]

350. I recommend she introduce far better female examples to her

daughters than Hillary Clinton or Geraldine Ferraro, both of whom have stunk up the place considerably in this nomination race.

I recommend you make sure your daughters' bookshelves include titles about Harriet Tubman, about Georgia O'Keeffe, about Janis Joplin, about Elizabeth Holzman, Shirley Chisholm, Elizabeth Edwards, Christianne Amanpour, Elizabeth Taylor, Saphho, Frida Kahlo, Joni Mitchell, Dar Williams, Ella Fitzgerald, Ann Sexton, Katha Pollitt, Bella Abzug, Maya Angelou, Elizabeth Bishop, Barbara Boxer, Margaret Sanger, Sacajawea, and about a hundred thousand other magnificent exmples --

-- LONG before she even considers Hillary Clinton.

[knixphan]

515. WONDERFUL point!

[SunsetDreams]

353. For my daughter sake

I am glad that he did, it's an example of no one getting a free ride for their actions.

You goof, you get called on it regardless of your gender.

[juajen]

354. I so agree with this post, and thank you for it.

I have hated the stupidity of everything "racist". We have made progress with civil rights in the past thirty years or so, but it seems as if it will be for naught after this race. Who would have ever thought that they would try to paint Hillary with the racist brush? Oh, gosh, I remember. His name is Karl Rove, you know that republican shit who hits 'em where they're strongest. My
God, the irony! Wake up, people, before it's too late, please!

[kwenu]

355. Ummn. Have you told your daughter that you think women are the "n*gg*rs" of the world????

Because I think she needs protection from you not Olberman.

[LulaMay]

450. That is an old feminist saying. Women world over do the sh*t work, labor, for men, the 'masters'

[meow mix]

357. Thanks for telling the truth, For my Daughters Sake.

ty keith

[defendandprotect]

359. Unfortunately, the feminist movement didn't always extend to even every female . . .

In the modern feminist movement/1960's, there were female leaders who didn't want to embrace their
sisters of color and didn't want to embrace their sisters who were homosexual ---

This is nothing new ---

Sadly, I think Geraldine Ferraro spoke out in a way she is used to thinking --
and it revealed something about her and something perhaps about Hillary's campaign that
most of us are taking strong exception to.

I've always admired especially Kweisi Mfume --- where is he now? --- former head of the NAACP,
because whenever he spoke about the oppression of people of color, he would also indicate strongly
that it was also well understood that women, homosexuals and many others have suffered oppression and it wasn't yet over.

I've never understood people who recognize their own oppression but not the oppression of others --

[Politicalboi]

363. I felt his special comment

was a warning for Hillary. I thought he was giving her the benefit of the doubt. I was actually kinda pissed he didn't tell Hillary himself to step down for all the shit she has been pulling. The threat of GF saying now she can speak for herself is bad enough. No one should give her a mic. Let her scream it in the streets and see how far she gets. Depending on what street she chooses. Simply unbelievable that these are the same people who hate Karl Rove and the Repugs are now saying it's ok we need to win. Maybe Gerri and O'Reily can have dinner sometime and see if others are screaming for Iced Tea while they scream about racism.

[Oslo]

365. Keith is doing nothing wrong. It's the Clinton Campaign.

[rodeodance]

392. you have been listening to MSNBC too longer. You are duped

[LulaMay]

448. His bias has been blindingly apparent from the start. His sincerity is a joke.

[knixphan]

517. where was he not speaking the truth?

[realFedUp]

366. Amen, sister.

I agree with you. Just turn them all off.
It feels much better.

[Politicalboi]

367. *Earned more votes*

Republican votes don't count. And besides Obama has came close to her "Big State Votes" everytime so that is a wash. So "paint you face and dance" all night if you wish. I think you just didn't want to be embarrassed in front of your daughter when the truth comes out about Hillary and Gerri.

[bagimin]

369. Funny post but

you forgot your sarcasm thingy.

[madisongrace]

370. Agree. n/t

[OwnedByFerrets]

375. That is one of the most hate filled and wrong

posts I have ever seen on DU....and that is saying a lot. And you wrote this before you even saw it?? Shame on you.

[ksquire]

376. congrats on raising your daughter a racist. n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

401. Hey Einstein, thanks for the original thought.

Holy shit.

[mtnsnake]

407. What a rotten thing to say and a blatant lie

Saracat has been around here for a long time and anyone who knows her knows she doesnt have a racist bone in her body. How you can come to the conclusion that you did from reading her post is simply beyond comprehension. I guess with your 26 posts you know everything, though. Loser.

[TexasBushwhacker]

377. Wow, my head is spinning

The negative responses to the OP are amazing. "Woman is the ni**er of the world". What does it mean? It means that at the end of the day, no single group of human beings is more universally oppressed than women. That's not to say that things aren't better for women in the US now than they were a century ago, but women still make 75% of what men make for similar work, and in plenty of cases high school educated men make more money than college educated women. We still do most of the work when it comes to taking care of our homes, our children and our ailing parents. Men however, commit more than 2/3 of the violent crime, and most of the property crime as well.

Look at the situation for females worldwide and you'll find plenty of countries where women have far fewer rights than men. They are often not allowed to work outside the home, to get any kind of education, or to marry who they want. Two million little girls in Africa and Indonesia will have their genitalia mutilated this year and next year and the year after that, and NO it's not the same as male circumcision.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071212/30469_Poll:__1_Out_of_6_Won%92t_Vote_for_Mormon_President.htm

In this article about Mitt Romney and the number of voters who won't vote for a Morman (1 in 6) they go on to point out:

"The Gallup Poll also found additional biases potentially harmful to other candidates from both major parties, including: 4 percent of Americans (including 3 percent Republicans) say they would not vote for a Catholic; 5 percent would not vote for a black; 12 percent would not vote for a woman; and 12 percent would not vote for a Hispanic."

So yes, we are a country that still has a lot of racism, AND EVEN MORE SEXISM.

[ncsoapmaker]

378. Excellent Post

couldn't have said it better my self.

[soleft]

379. This reminds me of people who condemned Last Temptation of Christ

Without having seen it.

[Hoof Hearted]

403. And who would be Christ, in this rumination of yours?

[soleft]

464. Okay, it reminds me of people who condemned Brokeback Mountain

[Hoof Hearted]

556. Awesome. What other Oscar winning movie titles can I coax out of you?

[WyLoochka]

380. As a long tme AZ resident

who transplanted to Wyoming in 2006, I am disappointed, saracat

in you

I once looked to you for an honest take on things

this is a very sad state of affairs we are in...

[Beregond2]

384. Daughter

Lovely. You are bringing your daughter up to be a sexist bigot with a martyr complex. Anyone who criticises a woman is automatically wrong. What a wretched life she is going to have.

[bjnumb9]

502. Right there with you, Beregond2

I totally agree with you. It is a shame that this woman is raising her daughter to feel that men are the enemy and that she is a victim, the "ni**er of the world." What a load of crap. What a sorry thing to teach your children. What a pathetic way to look at life.

[knixphan]

518. agreed. More Mia Hamm, less Monsters Ball

[kitfalbo]

385. Sea of doubt

Ignoring the negativity posted here I hope that you have made a choice to watch KO's comment tonight with your daughter. Hate it, love it, detest it, understand it... whatever you choose to do feel free to talk with her and to ask her how she feels about this comment.
Have a critical discussion. I hope you'll even ask what she thinks first before you give her your opinion so you can see what she thinks before you give your opinion and that pushes your opinion into her world view changing it before you even hear her initial thoughts.

You might even disagree or find new common ground. It is in the face of what we dislike about our culture that we see what we are made of. What our convictions show us. We can hope to use it as a mirror into our own reasonings to find strengths and flaws and hope and reality.

Maybe watching this together and talking to her will show you and her something.

[George II]

391. He went there..."get over it"...truth hurts, badly!!

[Chomsky is God]

396. Most people think they are the ******* of the world, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, or creed

In any case, KO provides an invaluable service to plumb the garbage that is espoused by Fox & CNN. We may not always agree with KO, but, by and large, he illustrates that there is still humility and humanity in broadcast journalism (IMHO). Who else speaks out against the corruption and greed that is our present administration? Of course that doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep striving for better, right?

[Daemonaquila]

399. I'm ashamed you try to speak for women

As a feminist, I am ashamed that even one person might see this message and believe that this is "our" way of thinking. I am ashamed that another woman is pitting one identity vs. another in the ugliest sort of identity politics.

Racism, as sexism, matters in our culture. When a woman makes a racist remark, she can not get a pass. Keith Olbermann is not the "bad guy" in this. That title belongs to all the Hillary Clinton supporters who are standing up for her and Geraldine Ferraro in this matter rather than respectfully and firmly insisting on accountability from both. Blaming men in power is an abdication of our power and our duty in seeking social justice for all.

I cried when I was a little girl, watching the end of Ferraro's race. It felt like there would never be another woman candidate. When Clinton ran I wished that it was one of several other powerful women instead, but that same little girl was still cheering that the impossible had happened again. Finally. It has been intensely painful to see with adult eyes what lies under Ferraro's surface. It has hurt to watch the long-awaited female candidate bring little more to the table than her gender.

Olbermann has said what needed to be said, nothing more. He said so publicly and painfully because Clinton's supporters, who could have called her and Ferraro to accountability gently and outside the public sphere, abdicated their responsibility and took the easy way out.

I have grown up in a sexist, racist culture but have understood anyway since childhood that there are no limits to what I can do. I have had many daughters, none biological, to whom I have helped pass on that lesson. But never by taking the false road of crying "sexism" when another woman has dug her own grave and is being rightly called on the carpet. Never by condemning another's words (as you have), yet unheard, before they are uttered. Those are the lessons of excuses, lies, and lack of integrity. A woman who internalizes those lessons devastatingly limits her possibilities.

Likewise sincerely and with all my heart,
A woman of the world

[knixphan]

520. WINNER! Most intelligent thought of the day!

[JanusAscending]

400. Geez Sara, you went all the way there..........

before you even heard what he had to say? My impression was that, he had been very close to the Clinton's in the past, was really PRO Hillary before her campaign started all of the crap, and is PLEADING with her to stop, before it's too late. It seems she blew her chance to be the "bigger person", in his eyes. Did anyone besides me get the same message, or am I out in left Field by myself????:shrug: DC

[Tafiti]

402. Your post is garbage, sorry.

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, he dislikes Hillary based on her campaigning? I mean, personally, I dislike her because of her campaigning. If I posted more often, several weeks ago you would've seen me saying that while I preferred Obama over Hillary, I'd be quite pleased to vote for her if she won the nomination. But I have gradually lost a lot of respect for her, and it obviously has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman. I think it's pretty clear her campaign has bottomed out in the sleaze category, what with the blatantly fear-mongering 3am ad (disgustingly right-wing) and now Ferraro's incredibly offensive remarks. What does that say about Hillary as a person? It says that attaining the Presidency is more important to her than what she will do with it. I don't care how bad it gets, if she wins the nomination I'm voting for her. The difference is that I'd have to vote for her because of the D beside her name, and not for the person who I used to respect. Sad.

[AnnieBW]

404. I hope the author of this watched the special comment

Especially the beginning part, where KO explained that he has a lot of affection for both Bill and Hillary Clinton, and he didn't want to say anything, but he felt that he had to. You could tell that it pained him to say it, but he had to - even though he'll probably lose them as friends.

Look, I'm a feminist, and I'm married. I don't want to say that every success in life I've had is my own - my husband is my partner, and we work together on a lot of things. He saved my bacon in the two information security classes that I've taken for my Masters Degree. But I'm not a computer security professional because my husband is.

If a man - white or black - was running as nasty as a campaign as Hillary and her advisors are, I'd be pissed at them, too. I'm disappointed in Hillary. I don't think that winning ugly is going to serve the feminist cause in the long run.

[BlueJac]

405. I feel sorry for all you supporters of Hillary.......

"Time has come for CHANGE" get on board, we are headed to the general election!

[spag68]

406. I'm voting

And to tell the truth, I would have happily voted for either a black man or a white women. Originally I thought it would be HRC,and that was OK. Then things began to look better for Obama and that was OK too. This is all based on two things, I know from 50 years of observing politics, that Dems. are generally much better for the working people of this country,man,woman, black, white, or any persuasion. Second is pure delight at the thought of the rethugs heads exploding at the thought of either being President. I admit that is wrong,but I just can't help it,as I despise what they have done to our country. Now however though I will obviously vote For our candidate, the joy is gone. the facade has been blown away and my disappointment with my own party makes me glad to be retired and able to back off and just go fishing. I can only hope someone heals the party.

[uberblonde]

414. Damn straight!

It's astounding how much hate is involved in this inclusive "new politics," isn't it?

[LoZoccolo]

418. "men in power are never to be trusted to consider anyone but themselves"

If she'd really do that over this one incident, she's been waiting to tell her daughter that for a long time. Don't listen to her, Keith! You'll spoil her big moment or something.

[D23MIURG23]

419. Unfortunate Proximity?

You make it seem almost accidental that Ferraro all but called Obama the affirmative action hire candidate.

Would it be sexism if a member of the Obama campaign insinuated that a male Hillary Clinton wouldn't be up on the podium with Obama?

[cameozalaznick]

428. Why is it that you if don't support HRC, you're sexist

I know a lot of people who don't support Obama, but I don't immediately assume they're racist. Why do Clinton supporters seem to go there so often. Exactly how is MSNBC "sexist?" I mean Andrea Mitchell seems pretty even-handed. And Chuck Todd just does the math everyday. Howard Fineman -- no sexism as far as I can see. Chris Matthews, Dan Abrams and Keith Olbermann have their opinions, but I've never heard them say anything sexist. Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarbrough defend her because as Republicans they want to run against her.

I'm at a loss. Please provide some examples.

[gort]

429. Ok so instead of the Race Card we now have

The VAGINA card. Vagina Card Trumps everything. It's the Sisterhood of the Vagina.

[TheDonkey]

430. Damn you Keith for not allowing Clinton's smear campaign to go unnoticed.

[Seabiscuit]

431. Sadly, he went there, Saracat. Guess he cares more about licking his MSNBC masters' boots than

about your daughter (or for the rest of us progressives, for that matter).

[scheming daemons]

434. Nothing sad about it. SOMEBODY had to say it.... and nobody could say it better....

The Democratic party owes Olbermann tonight. Maybe he helped pull the Hillary folks back from the precipice.... back from throwing that match on the gasoline they just poured on the Democratic party.


Maybe he talked them down off the ledge.


Let's hope.

[Tarheel_Dem]

439. Progressives?....bwwaaahhh

[Dinger]

432. Well, He Made HIS (& MSRNC's Day)

Somewhat unrelated question: Are the debates over?

[bridgit]

433. Too late, KO is far more interested in massaging his numbers than to care for your daughter...

KO has made his bed, he's already sleeping in it; may he be happy in the life he has chosen

[knixphan]

522. um, Keith isn't the father...?

[Downtown Hound]

436. Buh bye!

At this point I'm so sick of the Clintonistas decrying anything negative said about their candidate as sexism or whatever else they want to bitch and moan about that I really don't care if you pack up and leave. Go ahead, stop watching KO, quit DU, quit the Democratic Party, do whatever the fuck you feel like you have to do, but please stop boring everybody with your near-sighted, thin skinned, crybaby outrage. I seriously wonder where you're going to go though, since you've now officially threatened to boycott everything that doesn't like your candidate. There must be a desert island out there somewhere that has never said anything nasty about Clinton. Maybe you could all start your own country out there? A Clinton paradise where all who criticize her magnificence are branded as the sexist dogs they are, and paraded around in chains for your amusement.

[NickMorgan]

451. hmm.

Things accomplished by this comment:

1. piss off the author of the post
2. alienate anyone who sympathizes with the author of this post, even if they don't necessarily agree
3. motivate people who support Clinton to respond with the same kind of name-calling, dismissive, hostile language
4. fan the flames of inter-party bitterness and solidify opposition to obama, which, if he gets the nomination, is bad for the progressive agenda
5. suggest to me, an Obama supporter, that Downtown Hound is pretty mean and perhaps not to be taken seriously, what with the swearing and pointed epithets and highly emotional, aggressive gesture of this comment.

[Downtown Hound]

523. I can assure you

the Clinton people need no help from me in responding with "the same kind of name-calling, dismissive, hostile language." Every time somebody dares criticize Hillary they jump and pounce like it's no tomorrow, bring out the tired and boring sexism defense, hence what this thread is all about. Keith Olberman has done wonders for getting progressive voices to be taken seriously in the corporate media, but now that Keith has taken issue with Hillary, the Hillbots are unleashing the attack dogs, equating him with O'Reilly and Limbaugh and the rest of the right wing scum. I have a problem with that, and I have no intention of mincing words or kissing anybody's ass in the hopes of not offending. Take me seriously or don't, I really don't care. I do take them seriously, which is why I will waste no time calling them out on their bullshit.

[donheld]

440. Hillary has done just as much to damage women's right as

any of the people you name. She didn't have to run this kind of campaign.

[Veilex]

441. hmmmm...ok lets see here...

you seem to have taken on a "Hillary can do no wrong" attitude here. Much in they way that Geraldine Ferraro has claimed that anytime anyone says anything against Obama or his campaign, someone claims it to be racist...you are indicating that holding the hillary campaign (and I'm pretty sure there are men and not just women involved) accountable to what they say and do is being sexist.

Because you wish to not acknowledge that very republican-like tactics that Hillary's campaign has been using as of late, you claim that its "The Man trying to hold us (women) down". I'd say there is far too much emotion behind that kind of comment and not near enough logic and reason.

I for one started off being very comfortable with either Hillary or Obama as being president..."anything but a republican" was my motto...
But I watched as hillary started using tactics more in line with what i'm used to seeing from the republicans. At first I thought "Must be an aberation...surely she didn't mean to say/do what she just did"...but then it became a pattern and I realized I couldn't vote for someone resembling the republican play book.

This has nothing to do with sex, race, religion (though some try to make it seem like it does), or anything else that is a non-issue....Its all about the issues. Thats all.

And for the record "every time you go off on the Clinton campaign like this without curbing your own speech and body language, you reinforce that message" This is a campaign for the presidency...to expect anything less that what you've seen so far is unrealistic...No campaign that commits any such acts should ever be given special treatment.

[tradgedyandhope]

442. This is so disappointing to me

It's absolutely true that the odds are unfairly stacked against women in almost every arena you could name, from employment, salaries and promotions to politics and government. I was brought up to believe and do believe that women are equally capable and deserving of equal treatment and equal consideration. I have also found it to be true that in many cases, women in the same position or at the same level are more qualified and work a whole lot harder than their male co-workers. The reality is, women have much more to overcome and are often under-appreciated and under-compensated.

So, I unreservedly welcome women candidates and I look forward to seeing many future women presidents. If there were a woman candidate in this race who I felt was better than Obama, I would wholeheartedly support her. Considering all the factors is the current race, I just don't believe Hillary is the right woman for the job.

After all the accusations and counter-accusations of who is playing the race card and who is playing the gender card, haven't we all had enough of twisting this election into a contest of who is the bigger victim?

"Because here’s the truth of the matter, Keith: Woman is the ni**er of the world."

So, after all the non-racist arguments Hillary supporters have put out there, we're now at the point that we should choose Hillary because she's a bigger N-word than Barack?

Good grief.

If you want to play the who is a bigger N-word game, please tell me if you have ever been followed around a store by security because you were a woman? Have you ever been pulled over for driving as woman? Has your house ever been burned down because you're a woman?

I only ask to illustrate how pointless and irrelevant to choosing the right candidate this line of thinking is.

I understand that some supporters of both candidates are deeply invested and passionate about their candidates, but when Hillary steps up to the plate and plays GOP-style hardball which elicits same reaction that many of us would have from a GOP candidate using similar tactics, why is it suddenly an unforgivable betrayal?

[NickMorgan]

443. Respect

I mean, you wrote this before even watching the video? That's not exactly fair or open-minded. But even granted that your predictions were partly right, there's one charge you make that I think is really quite unfair. You accuse Olbermann of criticizing Clinton because he is a man and she is a woman. But isn't it possible that he really thinks the Clinton campaign has gone too far and that it has nothing to do with his sex and her sex? I am a man, so I won't pretend to know the disadvantages women face, but I also consider myself an ardent feminist and I repeatedly point out sexism or gender unfairness whenever I hear it or see it, and it's something my women friends acknowledge and respect about me. But I think when you judge Olbermann's motives and declare that he can't be trusted because he is a man and because he wants to keep the power with his guys, I think you're making a judgment that is based on his sex which is in fact a judgment that is just as invalid as judging a women based on her sex.

You seem to believe that his treatment of Clinton is necessarily unfair because why else would he suggest she drop out of the race? She has a big popular vote margin in certain large states, right? But that's only one way of measuring her viability as a candidate, and it happens to be a way that doesn't count for very much at the national convention, which decides by delegates. So there's a least a good faith argument that Obama is way ahead in the race, and that Clinton has scarce chances of catching him and amassing lopsided super-delegate support over and against the pledged delegate leader. Furthermore, if you've been following the news carefully, Clinton has been very open and unapologetic about going negative, and reasonable people like me (I do try really hard to be fair-minded) really wonder just how far Clinton will go and feel that much of her messaging is quite misleading.

And regardless of how biased Olbermann might be against Clinton, doesn't he at least have a point that Clinton could have and maybe should have been more clear about disassociating herself from Ferraro? I am 100% confident that if an Obama fundraiser ever said Hillary is where she is because of her sex, he would fire her faster than he fired Samantha Power, who didn't even make a sexist remark. Hillary Clinton is a brilliant, talented, incredibly motivated woman who has honorably dedicated her career to improving the lives of people and advancing liberal goals. Barack Obama is a brilliant, talented, and accomplished community activist who has dedicated his career to improving the lives of people and advancing liberal goals. To suggest that Hillary wouldn't be the amazing person she is if she were a man is just as disrespectful and ignorant as suggesting that Obama would not be as successful if he were white. The reason people are upset about Ferraro is because she is so focused on race and sex that in her mind that's what matters most, not what the person is actually about. And I think Clinton and Obama and any good person can all agree that nobody wants to feel like they are no more than their race or their sex. We all want to be acknowledged for the things we have earned, for what makes us special. Ferraro's dismissive attitude is not admirable and it is not sensitive and it is frankly not progressive.

Maybe Olbermann is wrong, or wrong-headed, and maybe he is biased against women. But you owe him, like we all owe every woman and man and people of all colors, the kind of respect that looks past concepts of race and sex and takes a good faith look at what someone is really about. I don't think you've given him this respect.

[LulaMay]

446. Thank you. His hypocrisy is stunning. He, Matthews et al sling sexism, and DNC says nothing.

All those men make me sick to my stomach. I don't watch them anymore.

And Dean, Kennedy an Kerry are dead to me and a lot of women in this party.

[LowerManhattanite]

449. The griefer siren's ringing again...

“...It's about meeeeee-eeeeeee, meeeee-eeeeeeeeee, meeeeeeee-eeeeeeee!”

Ugh.

[hamnose]

453. No YOU are the enemy

So Olbermann is the enemy now? 4000 Americans dead in Iraq, who knows how many Iraqis, a 7 trillion dollar federal reserve debt, our phone lines probably tapped, and now Olbermann is the enemy? Not everyone sees the world through your myopic eyes. Go ahead cut yourself off. Don't watch Olbermann. Don't listen to Randy Rhodes. Is that a threat? Should we care? Anybody else you want to add to your list?

[hamnose]

454. Hypocrit, Olbermann is free to have his own opinions

Do I detect sexism? "You are sticking up for your *own*- the guys." Christ woman he can support a candidate other than Hilary and it doesn't make HIM a sexist. But suggesting that that is his motivation is sexist. You really are an arrogant hypocrit.

[Dammit Ann]

455. did you watch?

do you still feel the same?

[twandx]

456. Patronizing Putz

Obermann's screams reminded us all of the way insecure men act when they respond in fury because a woman will not bend to their will. Since killing her, which they want to do, could land them in prison, they try to kill her with words. Shame on you Keith.

[JTFrog]

458. What a ridiculous and disgusting thing to say. WTF is your problem? n/t

[JTFrog]

457. Worst. Post. of. The. Year. Quite the contrast from

Quite the contrast from the http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5051321">Best Post of The Year.

[AirmensMom]

467. You nailed it.

:toast:

[truebrit71]

479. Couldn't possibly agree more....Complete and total BULLSHIT.

:eyes:

[Prophet 451]

460. What. Utter. Crap.

"woman is the nigger of the world". I'm just about old enough to remember when John Lennon first said that (albeit, I was in short pants at the time). I wasn't entirely sure of it's veracity then and I'm even less sure now. Of course, living the majority of my life in England, I am perhaps insulated from the worst excesses but the line requires some questions being asked about it. Do women generally have it tougher than men? You betcha and that is terrible. Do women (in the West 'cos that's all I have experiance of) have it as bad as black people or any other ethnic minority? I doubt it and more to the point, when did this become a contest? When did it become worse to be sexist than to be racist? Was Olbermann sexist when he hauled Condi Rice over the coals?

"woman is the nigger of the world". There is a faction of modern feminism which seems to have appropriated from the fundementalist movement, the tendancy to cry persecution where there is really just disagreement and a tendancy to ignore transgressions when committed by one of their own. That faction (and thankfully, they are small) have never comprehended the idea that there were reasons to oppose a Hillary candidacy which weren't about sexism. To them, and seemingly to you, anyone opposed to a Hillary candidacy, anyone who says something critical about her or her campaign must be a Hillary hater. It's the same blinkered mindset that the right used to invoke as "Bush hatred", the sheer refusal to accept that anyone could have an honest disagreement with your views. Several people hav commented that it's impossible to attack Obama lest one be called racist and here, we see the obverse, attacking Hillary automatically makes one sexist. But if it is sexist to hold a woman up to unusual scrutiny (and I'd debate whether Hillary got that for being a woman or being a Clinton), it is just as sexist to ignore the transgressions of her campaign simply because she is a woman. If we wish to treat all humanity in equal, then we must accept that all genders, all ethnic groups, have their fair portion of jerks.

Yes, the media coverage of Hillary has often been sexist. No arguement there bot how is that Olbermann's fault? He isn't responsible for all of TV or even all of MSNBC, he is responsible only for his little corner of it and sometimes not even for that (I vivedly remember his complaining through an entire broadast that his producers were forcing him to cover TomKat's baby). Olbermann's special comments have always been forcefully presented as his own opinion, nothing more or less. And yes, he seems to be leaning more toward Obama than Clinton. Like all of us, he has an opinion. I'm not especially an Obama supporter (nor am I especially a Clinton supporter, I think either would make a decent president) but he has the right to have an opinion and yes, that probably shapes his coverage slightly. As a journalist, it shouldn't but let me let you in on a little secret: There are no journalists on TV. Journalism delivers a product (information) to consumers (us). TV doesn't work that way, WE are the product, to be delivered to advertisers, THEY are the consumers (and this is why I barely watch TV). Olbermann isn't a news anchor, he's an entertainer and if his form of entertainment is laced with more facts than most, he remains an entertainer for all that. If you no longer find his work entertaining for whatever reason, fair enough, no-one's expected to like everything but let's not pretend that the Olbermann whom most of us were cheering a year ago has suddenly turned into Darth Cheney purely because he called out one of your favourites.

[Richardo]

461. What a load of crap

riverdaughter would be serving young 'Brook' much better if she just acknowledged that male, female, black, white, straight and gay PEOPLE fuck up sometimes, and that other male, female, black, white, straight and gay PEOPLE should be able to hold them to account without being labeled intolerant, sexist, racist, homophobes etc.

[shaniqua6392]

466. For my two daughters..I thank you for your post.

You are so right. I stopped watching KO about two months ago. We should not be eating our own.

[Vinca]

468. Olbermann was brilliant. Geraldine was vile, disgusting and . . .

racist in her speech. I don't think I've ever been more offended by words and her lack of understanding of what she said is just astonishing. I'm surprised so many on DU would choose to support such a view. You can certainly support Hillary without condoning racism.

[midnight]

470. When I think of equality, I can't help but be shocked by how our

country ignores the hard work of women via the GDP. Let's be real brave and address equality....List women's worth on the GDP!!!!

[BlueEyedSon]

471. Why, is she a Republican?

[Yurovsky]

475. Touche! .............. n/t

nm

[IdClaire]

476. absolutely correct, I no longer watch that assh*le

I wish I could kick and recommend. I would worry if I am Howard Dean. This party is being split and it's due in part to fuel to the fire rhetoric like this. Go ahead, Keith and piss off every white woman who supports Hillary. Its not like we have to vote for Obama if he's the nominee. We can always write in Hillary's name. Think about that Obama supporters before you write your hate filled rants.

[f the letter]

478. Jingoism alert :

The comment was not anti-women, it was anti-Hillary Clinton. Major major major difference. i am so tired of having to reinforce that some of my best friends are women every time i say something true and unflattering about Hillary Clinton, or that some of my best friends are black if i say something true and unflattering about Barack Obama.

Can we grow up a bit on this stuff?

[ejbr]

481. I pity your daughter

for to have a mother who will consciously ignore the connotations of Ms. Ferro's comments in deference to "being" a woman is truly pathetic. I am not going to claim that you or anyone who applauds your post are racist. However, I think your myopia to all things "feminine" have caused you to delude yourselves. You do a disservice to the respect for woman by ignoring the respect for others.

[ejbr]

482. I pity your daughter

for to have a mother who will consciously ignore the connotations of Ms. Ferro's comments in deference to "being" a woman is truly pathetic. I am not going to claim that you or anyone who applauds your post are racist. However, I think your myopia to all things "feminine" have caused you to delude yourselves. You do a disservice to the respect for woman by ignoring the respect for others.

[Slagathor]

487. So hostility to all things Clinton is inherent misogyny?

that's ridiculous. Hillary repudiated Ferraro's comments QED Ferraro's comments, even in the mind of your candidate, were racist.

[justinsb]

494. From my POV Mr. Oberman was dead on

perhaps even kind under the circumstances.

[rAVES]

495. He's all truth and heart until he turns on your cult leader.. what crap.

[tired]

496. It is quite unfortunate

that Hillary has chosen the path that she has. She seems to want the presidency over the good of the party and the people. It is not appealing at all. My father is a Hillary supporter and he rationalizes it as it is just politics but I don't really see it that way. To be fair I never got a chance to vote for my choice. I was left with two candidates that i really didn't care for, we must understand that by polarizing the party, she is only advancing McCain's agenda and putting him that much closer to the White House.

Truth Hurts.

[bjnumb9]

498. "Woman is the ni**er of the world"

What? Huh?

Pick up a history book. You are ignorant as hell.

[mimitabby]

499. so what did your daughter think of the show?

I hope you didn't editorialize it so she wasn't entitled to her own opinion!

[shenmue]

500. Thank you!

Happy to recommend. I can't take this garbage anymore. This is ridiculous.

The stupid accusations get crazier and crazier, and the scream machine just repeats them endlessly, and people think it's true. It's insane. People will believe anything. Literally, the more rumors people hear, the more likely they are to believe them. No one tests for credibility, they just insult each other and hope that it sticks.

This is not a campaign. It's Bizarro World.

I'm getting tired of trying to take the high ground and play nice, and all these conniving asshats do much better by being nasty. They can make all the ignorant, mean-spirited and utterly false accusations they want. Doesn't matter if it's not true. Once the mud is thrown, you're never going to get it all clean. Never.

Straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks are fallacies. They do not become true by way of repetition.

Still, nobody in the DU Obama camp seems to care. Oh, no. Quite the opposite.

Forget truth. The worse things get, the happier they are.

It's at the point where I don't know if I want to vote in November, much less be a Democrat. These Obama supporters have torn the party to shreds around them. Thanks a lot! :sarcasm:

[Cheap_Trick]

501. What will you tell your daughter.....

when, thanks to HRC's scorched earth policy of "if I can't have the nomination I don't care if our party wins", President John McCain't loads up the supreme court and overturns Roe V Wade? "Sorry about forfeiting your reproductive rights, but we were too busy throwing a hissy fit because we didn't get Hillary's nomination handed to her as was her divine right."


Keith didn't "expose them to shame and ridicule". They did a bang up job of that themselves.


"men in power are never to be trusted to consider anyone but themselves" Puhleeze....as if HRC is considering anyone but herself in this campaign. As if women in power are automatically sainted. Go ahead. Fill your daughter's head with your bullshit. It'll only come back to bite you on the ass in the end.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

503. probably one of the most pathetic posts I have seen here

[walkingdude]

505. Civil discussion

I have always thought that Democrats and Liberals were much more civil and open minded in discussing politics and other controversial subjects than the Right. I realize that right wing Republicans are prone to name calling and innuendo when debating, but I thought those on the left generally rose above vicious name calling and unsubstantiated accusations. However, since the rise of the Obama movement, that seems to have all changed. I think I am going to work for a third party in America. I believe we need a resurgence of the Populist movement of the 1890s. It appears that neither the right or the left have the moral courage to rise above vicious innuendo and discuss issues. In fact, I think I am going to quit visiting the DU it is beginning to sound like Rush Limbaugh.

[Auntie Bush]

504. I sure hope you actually sent that eloquent letter to KO. I sent one two last night.

Let's hope everyone does. I can't believe he used equal rage on Geraldine and the Clinton campaign as he uses on bush*. He's using his program to push his candidate and criticize ours in hopes of influencing the election.

[Iceburg]

528. He got a blast from me on the lies of NAFTAgate. I encourage everyone to write in/nt

[Life Long Dem]

506. That's backwards. It's not Kieth turning on us.

[MessiahRp]

507. This is a ridiculous post.

KO's comment wasn't about gender it was about her campaign's blatant racism. Teach your daughters across the board fairness and equality and they'll learn that it extends beyond sexism to racism as well.

There is no sexism in calling out people who happen to be women using Racism for political points.

Maybe something else you need to teach your daughter is that in an a fully equal world, people are open to criticism when they say bad things. Regardless of gender or race that does not change.

And tell your daughters that Margaret Thatcher, Nancy Pelosi, Angela Merkel and yes even Hillary prove that women can lead in this world and aspire to be President some day.

But all women are not created equal and Hillary's negativity and poor choices both in how she's campaigned and votes on the Senate floor disqualify her.

It's actually a good thing that her positions, stances, votes, and actions are the reason she is not qualified to be President. Disqualification on the merits means she was not disqualified simply because of gender which would have been completely and utterly wrong.

Someday a woman will be President, hopefully in the near future. But now is not that time and Hillary is not that candidate.

Tell your daughters to keep their hopes and dreams alive. It very well could be them whom we are voting for at the top of the ticket.

Just make sure they use better judgement than Hillary has.

Rp

[happygoluckytoyou]

508. w00t!!! makes me want to take my balls and go home

im an edwards democrat....

SO I WILL NOT BE VOTING IN THE 2008 ELECTION.... MY GUY DIDN'T MAKE IT...

I WILL TRY AGAIN IN 2012 WHEN HE WILL RUN AGAIN AGAINST PRESIDENT MCCAIN...

[robbedvoter]

519. My daughter knows we need to fight many more years bedore KO&comp

will even be acknowledged as loathsome. it's a good thing she's still very young - If I die before it happens, she'll carry on and she'll see it

[LSK]

536. I still cannot comprehend how an Edwards supporter is now a Hillbot???

Did you miss the 50000 Edwards speeches about lobbyists and change and Washington insiders???

[jillan]

541. Funny how Edwards hasn't endorsed Obama yet.

I wonder why???

Could it be that Edwards was for the blue collar workers? And supported UHC for ALL??

[LSK]

543. and who takes the lobbyist money??? Who did Edwards rail against?

Did you bother to watch any debates?????

:shrug:

[jillan]

550. Edwards has not endorsed, has he?

[From The Left]

539. You should've had a goldfish