Hillary or Obama Haters: Do you think your hate is significant of something else?

[Taverner]

Hillary haters: What did Sen Clinton ever do to you? She's not the most conservative Democrat, in fact she's very liberal/progressive on a number of issues. Neither is she that nasty of a campaigner. Many Democrats have her beat in the dirty game.

Obama haters: Now what did he ever do to YOU? Unlike the detractors say, he does have substance. He has drawn out plans, but he does speak in quotables. I think that's a plus - to have someone who can do substance and sound bites.

Honestly, look deep into yourself. Why do you really hate candidate X?

I have a possibility: maybe its not that you hate the candidate, but that you hate something, someone else...

[Brotherjohn]

1. I AM worth it! I LIKE myself!

[IndianaJones]

2. I can acknowledge much of my dislike of Obama stems from his supporters.

I disagree on some issues, but nothing that would cause me to hate him.

[emilyg]

22. I join you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. "What did Sen Clinton ever do to you?"

She got my country involved in another stupid war.

[Lerkfish]

4. my biggest issues are the war in Iraq, torture, civil rights and accountability

Neither of them are excellent on my issues, but I know for CERTAIN that Clinton is disastrous on the Iraq war. Obama might be too, but there's a chance he won't.
I'm convinced Clinton is in bed with the necocon/AIPAC warhawk agenda in the middle east, and I think that this country deserves better than that.

I don't even begrudge her corporatism as much as I don't trust her on foreign policy.

but again, that's where my nonsupport of her comes. People interpret that as "hate" but honestly, I only dislike her supporters here at DU, and the way they have treated and continue to treat people with valid issues like mine, by reinterpreting it as "misogyny" or what have you.

[NC_Nurse]

5. Hillary voted for and supported the Iraq invasion.

She failed at getting a healthcare program done, and she will again.
The Clintons promised much and delivered little during the admin.
They have shown repeatedly their willingness to throw progressives under the bus for political expedience.
Kyl-Lieberman.
The pandering flag-burning amendment.

She is a stereotypical say or do anything to win politician.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[adapa]

6. the min someone starts talking 'inspirational' & glosses over the facts, I have a

gut level visceral negative reaction. Way too many people tried to get me to buy into their cults for me to *ever* let myself fall into that trap.

[sandnsea]

7. She has no morals or ethics

And that matters to me.

[Taverner]

11. In politics, you pretty much leave your morals at the door

Ethics, on the other hand, you get to keep. Hillary and Obama have kept theirs.

Hillary fucked up big time by voting for Iraq. That's why I didn't vote for her, and that's the reason (I think) Obama has beaten her in primary after primary. If she wanted to win, her message SHOULD HAVE BEEN "I got us into this stupid mess, and I'll get us OUT! NOW!"

But she will get us out. She doesn't want that albatross around her neck, trust me.

Again so will Obama.

[sandnsea]

13. No you don't

DeFazio hasn't. Kerry hasn't. Feingold hasn't. Dean hasn't. Boxer hasn't. It's a bunch of hooey. Obama hasn't.

Hillary has no morals to leave at the door, ethics either. Take the blinders off.

[Taverner]

15. And there really is a Santa Claus...

[sandnsea]

16. That's always the excuse of Clinton supporters

Do you realize that? Any time anybody challenges her morals and ethics, every single one of you says, they all do it. Just like the Republicans did when all the Abramoff and Cunningham scandals hit. Pretty sad.

Most politicians are not corrupt.

[Taverner]

19. I'm not a Clinton supporter though

I know politics is a dirty game. And I know Obama and Clinton can win at it with the least amount of collateral damage. But to have a vision of your candidate as anything other than human is a delusion.

[sandnsea]

21. Riiight

:eyes:

Again, no, not all politicians are corrupt. And again, no, not all politicians will lie to win.

[Taverner]

23. OK well keep wishing on that star

Cuz gosh durn it, You believe in WINNERS!

You need to spend some time working in the world of realpolitik. Work for a congressperson for some time.

[sandnsea]

26. Hate Wins In America - Again!!!

Don't wonder why Republicans win in the fall when you spread that kind of thinking.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. I Love Them Both.

Course, that's probably because I'm not a closed minded or ignorant jackass...

[hfojvt]

27. I think there's a huge flaw in your argument somewhere

Nice to know that you love them both, and it's only DUers that you hate. Some DUers. Then again, don't we all kinda hate some.

[americanstranger]

9. I don't hate either candidate.

I met Senator Clinton once, at the State Of The Union 2003. Very nice woman, very engaging on a one-to-one basis. Senator Obama seems like a very intelligent and likeable person. I have no personal problems with either one of them.

I do, however, hate the idea that in order for one of them to gain the nomination, that the other must be destroyed. It will not just tear down whoever comes out on the losing end, it will damage both of them and turn what should be a slam-dunk Democratic win into another negative, nasty, hateful campaign.

Some of it comes from the campaigns. Most of it comes from the supporters, as you see here on a daily basis. People are so personally invested in their candidate that they feel it necessary and acceptable to trash the opposing candidate, all they stand for, their families, their supporters and anyone else who happens to get in their way or dare mutter a negative word about their candidate.

We will defeat ourselves. Then we will wonder why, when the answer will be glaringly obvious yet we still will be totally unable to figure it out.

- as

[Bake]

32. Oh, you know ... Obama's likeable enough ...

I suppose.

Bake

[Armstead]

10. I hate what the DLC Centrists have done to the Democratic Party and America

Since the late 80's, the DLC with the active leadership of the Clintons have done everything possible to purge liberalism on issues of Wealth and Power out of the Democratic Party.

They have aided the GOP in marginalizing "the left" and pushing the center of the mainstream political debate far to the right.

Hillary continues to do that, and will undoubtedly give us more of the same if she is elected.

[Taverner]

12. The Left was marginalized long before the Clintons were out of High School

I seem to remember this 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention....

[Armstead]

28. Perhaps you missed the irony

When I referred to "the left" I included the most modest of liberalism in that characterization.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. I do, too. And the typical DLCer today would make Hubert Humphry

look like a commie.

In 68 the unions were strong, FDR liberals ran the party and the left was truly left - way out there. Today, the left is what we are trying to get back to, with FDR liberalism, progressive unionism and a belief in the social contract of the Great Society.

By just staying put, Hillary has moved from Goldwater Republican to Democratic party 'leftist'.

[msongs]

14. or maybe disagreements do NOT = hate? nt

[chyjo]

17. I disagree

In the last three weeks Hillary has run an extremely negative campaign.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. I don't hate either of them. They're both just politicians doing what politictians do.

“Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote,
He's a-runnin' for office on the ballot note.
He's out there preachin' in front of the steeple,
Tellin' me he loves all kinds-a people.
(He's eatin' bagels
He's eatin' pizza
He's eatin' chitlins
He's eatin' bullshit!)”

Bob Dylan

[RandomKoolzip]

20. What did they ever do to us? Well, I'll tell ya.

There are many who hate Obama, or at least find him distasteful, because of his tacit support for "ex-gay" minister Donnie McClurkin - which makes him a homophobe by proxy. In 2008, the LGBT vote cannot be ignored, discounted, or rejected, and this was a huge check in the debit column for him, even for his supporters. Also, many feel Obama deals in empty platitudes and cliches, and wish he would be more specific in his speeches. However, this is not really a personal issue (except maybe with hardcore linguists), unlike the first one, which many have taken as a personal slight (understandably).

There are many who hate Hillary Clinton because of her IWR vote, and because under her husband's administration, there was much compromise and capitulation on our side. They think this "lay down with dogs" attitude would carry over into her administration. They also dislike her campaigning style and the fact that were she to become the nominee, republicans would turn out in droves to vote against her. I'm sure there are also some who dislike Clinton simply because she's a woman, but these assholes are a small minority. I, myself, am still so incensed about the ongoing war and the ongoing corporate takeover of America that I can't help but see her as an enabler of both phenomena. It's edging toward the personal for me; as a member of the working class, the whole NAFTA thing still burns.

I find both deeply flawed; however I feel Obama would be the better president.

[yourout]

24. Well said.......

I don't hate Hillary it's simply in my opinion she CAN NOT win the GE.

And this election is a must win if there ever was one.

[LeftCoast]

25. It's binary thinking

If my candidate is good, the opponent must be evil. It's a very simplistic and convenient way of looking at the world if you don't want to have to think about things.

[WVRevy]

30. I don't hate Hillary...

...I just loathe the fact that she'll do anything to win. Once she was in the role, I think she'd be a good-but-not-great president. It's what she's willing to do to get in the role I have become disgusted with.

[EFerrari]

31. Not this time. You have a point, and a good one.

People do that all the time -- look for someone or something out "there" to invest with their hatred.

I myself never liked the Clintons although I voted for Bill twice and tried to like them because it's much easier to like people than to not like them. They've had a lot of likable moments and then, there's all the self destructive cr@p they inflicted on themselves and on all the rest of us.

I was disgusted by the way her re-election campaign tried to exclude Tasini. And the cr@p her campaign has pulled this time out has been even worse.

So, while I try to stay willing to cop to my bs, this isn't me. It's her and the people she's chosen to surround herself with. Behavior has consequences and I'm not willing to take responsibility for hers. That's her job.