Texas Caucus Hardball (Hillary trying to cheat????)

[CoffeeCat]

(As an Iowan, who was a precinct captain for the caucuses--I find Hillary's "instructions" very
telling. If anyone doesn't understand how a caucus works, the position of "Secretary" which Hillary
is instructing her supporters to be assigned--is the person who records to final vote tallies. Also
interesting is her wording "control of the sign-in sheet." First off, the person overseeing the sign-in
sheet is there to ensure that everyone signs in. That person doesn't have "control". However, that sign-in
sheet is critical because it tallies the total number of people at the caucus. That number is used to
determine how many delegates are apportioned to each candidate. If someone feels that they need to "control"
the sign-in sheet--you have to wonder if they're talking about manipulating numbers).

------------article from Politico (link below)-----------
The Dallas Morning News gets hold of Clinton caucus "training materials," in which supporters are instructed to fight for procedural control of caucuses.

The materials say in part, "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

It goes on to say, "If our supporters are outnumbered, ask the Temporary Chair if one of our supporters can serve as the Secretary, in the interest of fairness.

"The control of the sign-in sheets and the announcement of the delegates allotted to each candidate are the critical functions of the Chair and Secretary. This is why it is so important that Hillary supporters hold these positions."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Texas_caucus_hardball.html

[Lucinda]

1. No. "Hillary trying to" make sure she gets a fair shake.

[CoffeeCat]

5. No, she's actually going beyond fair shake...

This looks more like a shakeDOWN.

Telling supporters to prevent Obama people from being in leadership positions. That's fair
to you?

The sign-in sheet is usually overseen by several volunteers working as a team. Hillary is
instructing her people to have "control" over the sign-in sheets.

"A fair shake" is allowing all parties to be in leadership positions and letting the process
play out fairly--with supporters from both sides in these roles.

Hillary is commanding her minions to force their way into these roles. Using words like "control"
when you're talking about a caucus--is very undemocratic and smacks of a desire to manipulate
or engage in scrupulous tactics.

[lapfog_1]

13. Just like the "fair shake" she got in Nevada

with the locked doors and the lawsuits.

[anigbrowl]

17. "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

OH yeah, that sounds really fair.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

2. Yet another right wing tactic to throw the election

Next she'll be getting black voters' registrations thrown out.

[Johnny__Motown]

3. Sounds kinda suspicious, I will give you that.

[thunder rising]

4. Is there one thing in those instructions that says conduct yourself with honesty and integrity?

This can only reflect on the kind of government she would bring about. More triangulation and back room deals.

[Yael]

7. There it is....

[CoffeeCat]

8. I can tell you this from being a precinct captain in Iowa...

All volunteers--from all sides--arrive ready to work together as a team--to
ensure that the caucuses run smoothly and fairly.

I can't imagine arriving at my caucus, with a Hillary supporter demanding "control"
of the sign-in sheets. Those sheets were at tables--which were manned by volunteers
and observers from BOTH SIDES. However, Hillary instructs her people to become Secretary,
because that will ensure them "control over the sign-in sheets." That would cause fighting,
if one volunteer was trying to "control" the sign-in sheets!

It's nuts!

At the end of our caucus, I hung around with the Secretary and the Precinct Chair. Many people
were around. That's when the vote tallies take place. No one was hoarding the vote tallies.
I watched and took pictures of the vote tallies. If Hillary wants these people to take control
of these positions--it sounds like she's trying to exclude Obama supporters from the final
vote tallies.

The Secretary and the Precinct Chair call in the final vote tallies to a central office. These
people need oversight and this need to be a TEAM effort--not an effort dominated by one camp--due
to marching orders from the candidate!

This is so wrong!

[elixir]

41. You're absolutely right, and they don't have the national anthem in them either. Give me

a break, they're instructions. I think she's wise to anticipate the kind of caucusing that went on in Iowa that affected the outcome - students driving over from IL on a weekend, swamping caucus sites when in fact it should have been for IA residents only. The Obama caucusers dominated the proceeding and intimidated others.

It's war and Hillary's arming her supporters w/ knowledge.

[Kittycat]

6. Obama Supporters will be there with Video & Cameras.

She isn't going to get away with anything. That doesn't mean people aren't going to try and cheat to earn Hill Points.

[Yael]

9. Which are redeemable at the Rudy! 2008 store

(Where I might add, everything is 50% off)

[CoffeeCat]

12. That's the only solution...

Obama supporters need to be at every precinct with video cameras and with
their digital cameras.

They need to take digital photographs of the final vote tallies!

They need to record what is going on.

No one can prevent you from using a video recorder at a caucus either. It is a public
event, and you are doing nothing wrong.

I hope the word has gone out to the Obama people--that they need to be vigilant!

We had observers at our caucus. These people were neutral and they oversaw the process
to ensure it was fair and everything ran fine.

I'm sure, now that Hillary's tactics have been revealed--the Obama camp and caucus officials
in general, will work even harder to ensure that everything is fair and that no one camp tries
to 'control' anything.

[lapfog_1]

15. The problem with video of the cheating

is that the cheating will likely go on and be accepted. You can show the video later and everyone will say "eeewww" but nothing substantial will happen (like taking away Hillary's delegates).

You need unbiased party officials to run things and police things, along with volunteer observers from both campaigns AND observers from the press (but the press can't be everywhere, there will be thousands of caucus locations).

[gateley]

10. "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

IF that is accurate, and it does say this is "in part" - then it sucks.

[Yael]

11. Dallas Morning News got a copy -- and Hillary instructed her people in person

with those very words. It has been posted here a few times in the last day.

One of the reasons my nerves with her campaign are on edge tonight (and I suspect a few others as well).

[fortyfeetunder]

23. Not only does it suck -- also unethical.

I hope this is not true...(sigh)

[Yael]

29. I posted the links in post #25

[kristopher]

14. K&R

Hope this makes it to the front page.

[Yael]

16. TwoSparkles -- you gotta see this one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4852157

(Candidate neutral)

[CoffeeCat]

18. Hey Yael...

Interesting.

I'm wondering what that is all about.

Obviously, the precinct captain who called TexasToast, to request the convention paperwork, was
instructed to do this by one of the campaigns.

I was a precinct captain, and we're at the mercy of those who tell us what to do, and instruct
us on the procedures.

So......this person wanted "convention paperwork." I'm unclear why someone would request this.
Is this paperwork, just how-to instructions or something more?

I noticed that Texas Toast told the precinct chair, "NO" and that the caucuses would be run
strictly according to Texas Democratic Party rules. So handing out this paperwork must be
against the rules?

What benefit would this precinct chair have--in possessing lists of rules and procedures early?

I guess I'm not clear on all of this...sorry for all of the questions. I'm kinda thinking out
loud here! :)

[texastoast]

21. I think possibly the precinct captains were both newbies

and are trying to get a handle on what they are to do at the convention. Dividing out the delegates has a mathmatical formula and procedures for provisional voters attending conventions is a little hairy.

If I were a newbie trying to work for a candiate in this primary, I would want a leg up on understanding what I needed to do also. They might not even have known that the paperwork doesn't go out until it is time for the convention. If I were their candidate, I would have directed them to the TDP's website where they can download or read the procedures.

[Yael]

27. Good to hear that you don't think anything is amiss. I was basing my

doubt on the links I posted in #25

It seems like coaching to game the system (something about he who holds the envelope has the power. LOL!!)

[Yael]

22. The Dallas News report told people to "ask for the envelope"

and that those who have the envelope "control the caucus".

Lemme see if I can find it.

[Yael]

25. Here is what I was referring to

May be more -- I searched on "envelope".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4840304

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4842509

[CoffeeCat]

31. Yael...

Texas Toast said in his post that precinct captains requested caucus materials from
him--and these precinct captains wanted to know if they could pick up the paper work
before the caucus.

You posted the link about Hillary instructing her precinct captains to get the "envelope"
of materials and that if you have this envelope, according to the rules--you can be
the Temporary Precinct Chair--which is the person who runs things at the caucus.

It sounds like these precinct captains, who called Texas Toast (who is a Texas caucus
judge) asked him for these materials or "envelope" per their marching orders.

That's what it sure looks like to me.

[Yael]

32. That was what I was suspecting when I saw TT's thread.

[CoffeeCat]

33. Isn't it interesting...

...that Clinton would ask her precinct captains to request those materials before the caucus--which
is clearly against the rules?

She's asking her precinct captains to break rules.

Furthermore, Clinton knows that people like Texas Toast know the rules. She knows that Texas Democratic
Party rules forbids anyone from obtaining that envelope before caucus night. It's as if she's playing
on their naivete, and giving them marching orders that she knows are in violation of the rules.

I feel sorry for these precinct captains. Obama himself asked me to be a precinct captain for him and I
didn't know what I was supposed to do. I was at his mercy. Most precinct captains rely on the candidate's
staff to enlighten them.

Hillary is cheerleading her precinct captains into cheating--it sounds like.

It's so weird, on so many levels.

So let's say, Hillary supporters all become Temporary precinct Chairs--because they manage to get their
hands on the envelope. What do they think they're going to do...write down false results? Sway voters
to dump Obama? LOL. I don't get this.

[Yael]

34. I am guessing it is the scorched earth version of No Vote Left Behind

:hi:

[txaslftist]

38. I'm a Texas precinct chair, and I asked for the materials.

I want to know how to conduct the caucus, because I'll be chairing it and don't want to make any mistakes.

I don't know of any precinct chairs who aren't going to attend their caucus, although I do know there are a number of vacant chairs in our area. I don't know what those folks are going to do about their caucuses. I can assure you, there won't be any "exclusion" of anyone from positions of leadership in MY precinct based on who they support.

[Diane R]

19. It's frightening to think how this woman would operate if she is Commander in Chief.

[UALRBSofL]

20. No, she's just not going to let

Obama supporters get away with voter fraud. We Know how he won so many caucus' and Hillary has wised up to it. :) As we know, Obama has won all the caucus' and it's pretty obvious how he has done that but in Texas he wont get away with it.

[CoffeeCat]

26. You don't know what you're talking about...

I was a precinct captain in a caucus, and there's no way to "steal" a caucus, or win
it in any untoward way.

Do you even know how a caucus works?

All of the procedures are out in the open. You vote among your friends, neighbors and neighbors.

How in the world can there be "voter fraud" at a caucus???? A full room count is taken, supporters
around counted and the delegates are apportioned--according to the room counts--which are tallied
by several people and double checked again and again.

This is sour grapes from the Hillary camp and it's really ignorant and really unbecoming.

[Yael]

28. This from someone who was promoting Nadar today

as the "progressive candidate" of choice.

*yawn*

[Why Syzygy]

24. IN THE INTEREST OF FAIRNESS?

That is Hillary in the nut shell she is. If you can't win by brutal force, whine *foul*.
What a bunch of fucking cry babys.

[ericgtr]

30. Sounds like something Bush would do n/t

[Adelante]

35. Whoa, this is bad

The materials say in part, "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

[Independent-Voter]

36. When all else fails, cheat. God damn I can't stand HRC

[Arugula Latte]

39. She's sure learned a lot from Bush and Rove, hasn't she?

[grantcart]

37. k and r

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

40. I'm shocked, shocked I tell ya

:sarcasm: