Only 15% of FL Dems blame state party for their votes being worthless.

[Skip Intro]

Again, if their party does not stand for them now, they will not stand for their party in November, and we can write off FL in the general. They came out in record numbers to make their voices heard. It aint rocket science.

-----------------
Floridian Democrats also weighed in on whether and/or how their delegation should be seated at the national convention -- 28% said the state party should hold another Democratic primary or caucus; 24% believe the delegation should be seated, according to the Jan. 29th primary; 15% say “the Florida Democratic Party knowingly violated the national party rules, so it should accept the penalty”; 13% favor a delegation that is split evenly between Clinton and Obama; and 20% say they aren’t sure.
------------------

And McCain is already ahead.

-----------------
McCain leads both Obama and Clinton in potential general-election match ups with either candidate in the all-important swing state of Florida, according to a Mason-Dixon poll out today.

McCain leads Obama 47%-37% and Clinton 49%-40%. The Arizona senator leads the Democrats across the board. About 80% of Republicans are behind McCain. Only 66% of Democrats are behind Obama and 72% are backing Clinton in one-one-one match-ups with McCain. Currently, 17% of Democrats indicate that in a match up with Obama, they\'d support McCain; 16% say so in a match up with Clinton. Seventeen percent of Dems also say they are undecided in a match up with Obama; 13% say so with regard to McCain-Clinton. Those numbers though could be a reflection of McCain being the presumptive nominee and Obama and Clinton still engaged in a fight for the nomination.
-----------------

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/28/713124.aspx

[Bicoastal]

1. Only 24% think the delegates should be seated?!

That's not exactly a mandate.

[Skip Intro]

4. 65% believe FL Dem voters should be represented in some fashion.

not exactly not a mandate

[Bicoastal]

6. So if we gave exactly half the delegates to O, half to C, they'd be happy?

[Skip Intro]

14. Some would, some would not - personally, I do not think it would be fair to the voters to do that.

The delegates should be seated representative to the percentage of votes garnered by each candidate. At the very least, arrive at the number of delegates as they would have been awarded, and then cut those numbers in half, it would still be representative of the vote, but would also punish the state party. Just splitting the delegates does not accurately reflect what the voters in FL said.

the whole point is, if the DNC sticks to not counting FL at all, the state is lost in Nov.

[WonderGrunion]

28. Hillary only won 50% of the vote in Florida

Why should she get more than 50% of the delegates?

Same for Michigan for that matter.

50% of the delegates from both states still leaves her woefully behind Obama at this point.

I say, let her have them.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

35. there were other Dems on that ballot besides Clinton and Obama...how much did Obama get?

[WonderGrunion]

37. It doesn't matter

Give Hillary the 50% she won and give Obama 0%, leave the rest uncommitted (she didn't win them after all). She would still be behind Obama in delegates.

[democrattotheend]

7. A lot of Obama supporters think they should be represented "in some fashion"

Personally, I favor a revote, though I am not sure it's feasible, since the state legislatures would have to vote to finance another primary. But it could coincide with their Congressional primaries, which I believe are sometime this spring.

Hopefully, either Clinton will drop out after March 4 or Obama will go into the convention with enough pledged delegates that Michigan and Florida won't alter the outcome, in which case there will be no problem seating them.

[truebrit71]

2. FL hasn't "officially" gone for the Dems in recent history...

...so I'm not sure what the big deal is here...

Theses guys can't get their ducks in a row for the primary and are more insterested in suing the DNC than focussing their ire at the REAL perps, the FL thuglicans, so at the end of the day...fuck 'em...

[Obamanaut]

5. But it's not JUST the 'thuglicans.' HB 537 sailed through the state

legislature with a very (read very) small number of 'nay' votes, which leads me to believe that most of the democrats were voting for it as well.

[laconicsax]

26. 537

Irony!!!!

[anamandujano]

8. Yeah, 2000 was a bad year for Florida Dems but not having one's vote counted begins

to get to you after awhile.

[truebrit71]

10. I'd have to believe it would...I feel your pain....

...what is WRONG with that state..I thought all the loonies went to the LEFT coast?

[anamandujano]

30. Well, in 2000, the Supreme Joke of the United States of America was

what was wrong with that state.

edit to add--That could be a clue as to why it has not officially gone to Dems.

[ingac70]

3. Florida is a lost cause anyway...

all that corruption in 2000 and they still re-elected b aby brother Jeb. Florida is just like any other southern state, run by Repukes.

I think dems should focus on Iowa, Ohio, and out West... Virginia might swing our way, but I wouldn't count on it.

My hope is to relegate Repubs to just a regional party.... the new confederacy.

[goldcanyonaz]

9. Florida doesn't count!

Like Michigan. Both will be red come November if Obama is the nominee.

Bookmark this.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. Done.

I need something to laugh at later. Especially, Michigan.

[goldcanyonaz]

15. Or cry. I live in Arizona but have property in Oakland Co Michigan.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. I shan't cry.

An $100 donation to DU for Michigan?

[goldcanyonaz]

20. It's a bet!

[WonderGrunion]

29. OK, let them count.

Hillary only won 50% of the vote in both Florida and Michigan. Even with 50% of those delegates, she's trailing obama right now.

Let Hillary have them. It still doesn't matter.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Alright, here's a solution.

Hillary can concede the race, then everybody can get seated at the convention.

[still_one]

12. and how many times did the people of Florida elect jeb bush /nt

[madfloridian]

16. You are spinning that poll big time. Besides...it is in the hands of the court now.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1864

The rest is history.

Florida again, lawsuit again, court again.

[WonderGrunion]

32. Mad, you're my hero at DU

And have been since the Dean days. You've been a tireless fighter for truth and equality and I'm proud of the work you've done here at DU, first for Dean, and now bringing light to the Florida debacle.

Stay strong, I only wish those valentine's hearts stayed around a little longer.

[JVS]

36. If only you were Tsar of Florida!

They need to get their shit together, and your strong hand is the only way ;-)

[George_Bonanza]

18. Stop trying to subvert democracy Hillary

"Disenfranchising" Florida may not be the ideal solution, but counting votes in a semi-legit "election" is even worse.

[Skip Intro]

22. Telling people their votes do not count is not subverting democracy?

point is, if we want to win in November, we should find a fair solution to this problem that counts, in some way, the voices of those voters, otherwise, their very own party is giving them the middle finger, and who in their right mind would think that will not come back to bite us on the ass in Nov?

[George_Bonanza]

39. Letting Hillary win the nomination via a semi-legit contest is democracy?

[Skip Intro]

40. What a predicament.

We will not win in Nov if we tell FL Dems to screw off now, then what have we got?

[Occam Bandage]

19. So 76% don't want FL delegates seated as they are?

[Skip Intro]

21. And 85% want FL voters represented at the convention.

[Occam Bandage]

23. Just not as the voting stands.

[Skip Intro]

24. Clearly, we have a problem, yes?

[Occam Bandage]

25. Indeed. Any solution will be opposed by most. Personally, I'd recommend

either a revote/recaucus, a 50/50 delegate split (after all, delegates do more than vote for President), or to send a bunch of noncommitted delegates who will participate in all actions but voting for President.

[Skip Intro]

27. Or do what the RNC did - cut the delegate total in half, then award them proportionally to the votes

cast by the actual voters. The voters did not vote 50/50, so a split like that would be pretty unrepresentative of the vote. Seating them but silencing them would seem patronizing at best, I think. A new election seems out of the question, unless ordered by the courts.

[JVS]

34. They must caucus

[WonderGrunion]

31. It doesn't matter

Let them seat as voting stands. Neither were winner takes all, Hillary only won 50% of the vote in both states. 50% of the delegates still won't put her ahead of Obama.

She's lost. This is no longer a fight that matters.

[Occam Bandage]

41. It's not a matter of Obama vs Hillary. It's a matter of the DNC versus state parties.

[JVS]

33. Shame on them for being uninformed

[stillcool]

38. I wonder what percentage...

of DU places the blame on those who break the rules? And, how many of them live in Florida?