Could Obama use the "unites the opposition" against a man?

[DemGa]

It's an absurd argument in my estimation: Your fellow Democrat is flawed because they piss off the opposition? Can you imagine Obama painting John Kerry as "divisive and polarizing" because he angers Republicans? Because he certainly does. Never mind that it's an extraordinary betrayal to take advantage of the right-wing attacks that foster those perceptions.

Would this argument of Barack Obama's, that the opposition hates my opponent fly against -- a man? I think this low-down style of attack from Obama could only work on a female.


Barack Obama:

"Democrats will win in November and build a majority in Congress not by nominating a candidate who will unite the other party against us"

"But I don't think there's any doubt that the Republicans consider her a polarizing figure."

[MaineDem]

1. What a silly premise

Of course it could - and would - be used against a man. What does gender have to do with it???

[susankh4]

2. I'd like to see him try it....

What a shame that the Dems are not going to see through this rouse... until it's too late.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

3. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Lots of people consider both of the Clintons to be polarizing figures. It has nothing to do with gender.

[DemGa]

6. Right-wing attacks caused those perceptions -- with Republicans

with Dems too, but a somewhat seperate issue here.

"Well, I think there's some history there, not all of Sen. Clinton's making," Obama told the program's host, Bob Schieffer. "But I don't think there's any doubt that the Republicans consider her a polarizing figure."

Do you understand that Obama uses the effects of the right-wing attacks of the nineties AGAINST Clinton? This is an alignment of Obama with the right-wing attack machine.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

18. I agree that the rw smear machine is responsible for that perception

However, it is now a reality, plain and simple, and it applies equally to both Clintons.

[DemGa]

28. ......

So you feel it is okay to use the malicious attacks of the right-wing against a fellow Democrat? Ouch!

[susankh4]

24. Yes it is.

And as a Dem, I don't like it.

[SteppingRazor]

4. I disagree that this particular argument is sexist.

It's a fact that conservative Republicans see Hillary as the anti-Christ.

It's a fact that Barack Obama has a proven track record throughout this primary of attracting independents and moderate Republicans.

It's a fact that conservative Republicans don't really like John McCain, as seen from the exit polling even in the most recent primaries, in which "very conservative" voters went for Huckabee, despite the fact that he's running a doomed campaign.

It's a fact that, therefore, McCain relies on indies and moderate Republicans -- the very people voting for Obama.

Given all of this, then, it's not hard to see that Obama chips away at McCain's base where he's strongest, while Hillary reinvigorates McCain's base where it's weakest. I don't think gender has anything to do with it, except in exploring the reasons why conservative Republicans loathe Hillary, in which case we can certainly see an underlying misogyny in a great deal of conservative thoguht. But the whys and wherefores don't really matter to the argument that Obama's supporters have been making there -- the very existence of the hatred is all that matters.

[Kittycat]

5. Your slam doesn't hold water.

It's the Clinton MACHINE that is tearing the party and turning off new comers. The machine is branded with Hillary's name, but includes Bill, Mark Penn, Wolfson, et al. I honestly don't know which of them is on stage wearing the hillary suit at what time. Her message is so unclear. And the fact remains - she is extremely polarizing.

Edit to take our sarcastic remark that the subject could do without.

[Occam Bandage]

7. What a ridiculous premise. I think by now, quite literally any argument against Sen Clinton

is "sexist" on DU.

[DemGa]

10. This has been a central attack from St. Obama

In essence, Hillary is corrupted because she unites Republicans. Could this line of attack be used against a man?

[Occam Bandage]

11. Certainly. He's used similar arguments against Bill.

[DemGa]

13. Yes, same betrayal....But Bill is not running for President

The attacks on the Clinton Presidency have not gone unnoticed--especially by the Dem base.

[Occam Bandage]

14. So how is it sexist, if it's been used against a man and a woman?

[Bluerthanblue]

8. you are being silly- This has nothing to do with sex- and everything

to do with approach.

Hillary is running a campaign AGAINST "them".

Obama is running a campaign for "us".

She is running on the 'past'-

He is running on the 'future'-

These are very broad generalizations, but they represent the meat of the matter. Your illustration about Obama vs Kerry doesn't work, because the differences between JK and Obama aren't as stark. People see sexism everywhere and it has become the 'scapegoat' for a campaign that just doesn't have what the American people want.

:shrug:

peace~

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. So you're arguing that Obama's winning because of sexism.

Well I'm glad we have that out in the open.

[DemGa]

12. Yes, you are correct

Obama could not use the my opponent "unites the opposition" against a man -- he would be rightly laughed off as a betraying fool.

[Cant trust em]

15. unfortunately for her it's not her gender. It's just her

There's something about Hillary that makes Republicans freak out.

[DemGa]

16. "There's something about Hillary "

It's from years of right-wing attacks -- Obama uses this fact against her.

Would it work against a man?

[Cant trust em]

17. all hypotheticals about Hillary's gender are tough to quantify

There's never been another woman as powerful as Clinton. The irrational hate that the RW has against Clinton might be due to her gender, but since we don't have any other women to compare it to we'll never know. Moreover, there don't seem to be any men that have engendered as much disdain as Hillary Clinton. I don't think that Bill is even as polarizing as she is. Also, it's not like Obama invented the hatred of Clinton. It was there long before he ever announced his candidacy.

[DemGa]

19. "it's not like Obama invented the hatred of Clinton."

Exactly, Obama just capitalized on it -- he used the right-wing machine against Hillary.

I don't think this subversive line of attack would work on a man. As it is, it gets not notice. Just something to consider.

[Cant trust em]

20. Of course he's going to capitalize on it

this is a campaign after all. Clinton is capitalizing on Obama's relative inexperience. In my view, both are fair game. The irrational hate of Clinton is unfortunate, but it is real.

[DemGa]

27. The difference

Obama has capitalized on the attacks of the opposition -- against a fellow Democrat.

[Cant trust em]

29. So by that logic if Obama wins the nom

the Republicans won't be able to use the inexperience label on him since a Democrat used it first? The fact is that many people have a problem with Hillary Clinton's likeability. I don't like her either and it's not because Rush Limbaugh told me so. I keep wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like every time I hear her speak I dislike her more. She's a democrat, so I keep my mouth shut, but it's tough.

[DemGa]

31. I have to return to the original point

Yes, the Republicans will be using the "inexperience" label -- they are the opposition.

Republicans hate Hillary due to years of vicious right-wing smear campaigns -- Obama freely capitalizes (somehow) on this fact by labeling Hillary "polarizing"; that she will unit REPUBLICANS.

So Obama capitalizes on right-wing attacks, using them against a fellow Democrat -- would this treachery would prove effective against a MALE Democrat.

[Cant trust em]

34. There's no one else that the RW hates as much

There's no body of evidence we can turn to to support any claims such as the one you're making. The best we can do is guess. If there were a man who was as polarizing as HRC then maybe we could do a contrast and compare. Fortunately, there isn't another that raises the blood pressure faster than Hillary.

[bunnies]

21. His argument has nothing to do with Hillarys gender.

These "sexism" accusations have gotten out of control. She unites the other party because of her last name. You can't really be so blind so as not to see that.

[DemGa]

26. "His argument has nothing to do with Hillarys gender."

Maybe, maybe not. But I asked whether or not using the effects of the right-wing machine against a Democrat would work on a man.

[anigbrowl]

22. Of course he could. There are several Dems

that the GOP particularly loathes. Just as John McCain is less polarizing than, say, Rudy Giuliani. McCain's an ass in many ways and of course I have a generalized dislike of him because of the paty he belongs to, but Giuliani positively scares me. He would have been like W 2.0.

[bunnies]

23. And another thing.

Crying "sexism" where it does not exist makes women look BAD. And as a woman, its really starting to piss me off.

[DemGa]

25. Well surely it involves sexism - but the crux of my argument..

I am asking if the betrayal of Obama -- by using the right-wing attacks against Hillary -- would work on another hypothetical Democrat, that being a man?

[bunnies]

30. ok, lets talk about it then.

First... I'm not convinced that its a rw talking point. Its no big secret that the rw has an ingrained hatred toward the Clintons. Therefore, it doesnt seem all that illogical to me to think that Clinton as the nominee would galvanize the rw against her, given their hatred.

And if Hillary were say, Bill, Im fairly confident that the same argument could be used to the same effect.

[DemGa]

33. ..........

Yes, the right-wing hates Hillary because of the years of vicious attacks -- it is ingrained.

Now Obama uses the effects of those right-wing attacks to his benefit (i.e., "Hillary will unite the opposition"). Do you not see this as an alliance with the opposition by Obama? -- using the damage caused by the enemy to harm a fellow Democrat?

I don't think this attack would work on a male.

[Firespirit]

32. Well for one, Kerry is Obama's friend

Beside the point, I realize. (Incidentally, WTF is with the Clinton supporters' dislike of Kerry?)

Secondly, campaigning on electability is not a betrayal of anything.

Third, if there is a Democrat that Republicans like less than Clinton, it would be Ted Kennedy. Again, he's Obama's friend, but HELL YES the electability argument would fly if he were running for president. If you don't believe me, go hang out at Freeperland for about 10 minutes, and you'll see.