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Hillary's last minute desperation -- versus Al Gore's and John Kerry's

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:28 AM
Original message
Hillary's last minute desperation -- versus Al Gore's and John Kerry's
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 11:13 AM by HamdenRice
I realize that there is a lot of outrage in the blogosphere about what are perceived to be dirty tricks and negative campaigning by Hillary Clinton's campaign.

I can understand that, and to a certain extent I share it. But more than anything else, I feel a sense of disappointment and almost embarassment for Hillary.

There has been for other politicians something almost liberating about the end of a close campaign, and I've been thinking about how Al Gore faced the possibility of losing in 2000 and how John Kerry faced the possibility of losing in 2004 (in fact, IIRC, polling generally showed those races were too close to call).

We all recall the unfair lies that the Bush campaign told about John Kerry, but I also recall some of the really stupid mistakes Kerry made -- posing for photo ops in expensive windsurfing gear and failing to respond to the swiftboat campaign. The same was true of Al Gore. For example, he seemed to distance himself from the successful presidency of Bill Clinton and seemed to tie himself up in triangulating knots over the Elian Gonzales fiasco.

But I also remember both Gore and Kerry in the home stretch, when each faced the prospect of losing an election that was, well, theirs to lose. The home stretch seemed to liberate both men. Gore dropped his pretenses of using Clintonian triangulation and came out swinging as an economic populist. Kerry stopped focusing on his image as a war hero and got down to what he does best -- telling the truth as a studied, meticulous debater, and a nuanced thinker about the entire range of issues that faced the country. I hope I'm not letting nostalgia cloud my recollections, but I distinctly remember a kind of grit entering Kerry's speaking patterns -- as though he was saying, let's forget all the strategy and all the bullshit coming from the other side: this is the truth.

One of the things that struck me about Hillary's various attempts to find a new voice over the weekend was that she did exactly the opposite. Rather than saying, OK, let me get down to what I really think, the take away soundbite for me was her saying, "Shame on you, Barack Obama ... Meet me in Ohio. Let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign."

That summarizes what is wrong with her home stretch appeal: rather than finding her voice about the big picture issues -- the war in Iraq, class warfare of the rich against the middle class, the collapsing economy, the erosion of the constitution -- she decided to focus on what the Washington pundits call "inside baseball" -- campaign tactics.

Who, at this point, wants to hear a debate about campaign tactics?

I'm not outraged by Hillary. I'm just very, very sorry for her.

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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree...
...her tactics are sad and pathetic.

Everyone knows she's tanking in the polls. She's lost 10+ points in Ohio and Texas.
Both states are following the pattern of the last 11 states that she lost.

Knowing that she's not going to win--her screeching and "meet me in the back of the school yard!"
fits--are just really icky-bad.

It's obvious that there are severe fractures within her own campaign. One minute, she's acting
gracious and respectfully talking about policy differences; the next she's melting down and
behaving like a crazed loon.

Ughh. I'm scared about what is going to show up tonight. She's not being "herself". She's
trying on different tactics...and nothing positive ever happens when someone is behaving in
an inauthentic way.

She's all ready lost the Dem nomination, and now she's on her way to becoming a pariah.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. I'm not sure she's been inauthentic the last few days. I'm afraid that's the authentic, unvarnished
Hillary. The Saturday rant was apparently impromptu--that was probably the most authentic look we've had of her during the entire campaign.

She doesn't seem to realize that these extreme mood swings are not what people want to see in a president. Whatever chance she had to win the nomination has been killed in these last few days.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. I share your memories of both Gore and Kerry in the home stretch
Gore as economic populist, Kerry as truth-teller, fierce debater, and true grit. That was and is the real Gore and the real Kerry.
Unfortunately, we have also seen the real Hillary this week. She has focused on campaign tactics as an issue because that has also been her focus from (as she would say) Day 1 (Remember her announcement? "I'm in and I'm in to win". That's as good a summary of her campaign, and, IMHO, her real priorities, as any).
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. "we have also seen the real Hillary this week" -- I wonder?
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 10:40 AM by HamdenRice
Thanks for validating my recollection!

I think the problem with Hillary is that she does indeed have a firm grasp of "the issues," but she can't discuss them in a broad way. She is always describing the trees and not the forest.

Health care is, indeed, a question of the minutiae of how each person will make his contribution, but it is also a bigger question of "what kind of society are we"? "what role should profit play in medical care"?

She seems distinctly unable to articulate the big picture that rationalizes her many small pictures. Moreover she is dismissive toward anyone who can put the trees into a coherent picture of the forest -- which is what Obama has done to galvanize his supporters.

Maybe she just isn't capable of the big picture. Or worse, maybe a big picture would scare her new found corporate supporters.
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Skoods Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Yeah..
And Gore and Kerry both lost because they acted like they acted. Maybe if they were more ferocious and negative, they would have won.

Everyone hates negative campaigning, but it works.
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Independent-Voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. What makes you think this isn't how HRC really is? She certainly comes off as a shrill person.
Nothing to feel sorry for. Karma is a real bitch.
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. He's got her on the defensive...
...and that's a good place for him right now.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. K & R. nt
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well-written and compelling
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 10:49 AM by Window
K/R


Peace:thumbsup:
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. Spot on.
I agree with everything you're saying. We see what the candidates are really made of when they're up against the wall. I do think this is the real Hillary.

Gore and Kerry are class acts; Hillary is showing her true colors now, too. Her real self seems to be a shrill, angry aggressive pol who wants to win at all costs.

Blasting away at Obama isn't going to change anybody's vote, is it? Is someone going to think, "Oh Hillary really hit him good with that zinger. I guess she's right and I'll be changing my vote!" ? It makes no sense. Conventional wisdom has always said that going negative doesn't work--especially in a primary! People don't line up on the side of one or the other based on how much the candidate hates their opponent!

Because of the last few days, I will no longer believe her when she is "making nice". I will continue to believe that inside her lies a shrill, hateful, spiteful person.
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Kokonoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. Its a republican style that would do better in the GE
But may be poison to democrats who cannot be fooled because you wear a flag. Hope and change is what we want, And rightfully so.
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samdogmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. Divisive and polarizing--the two words I always use to explain why I'm not supporting her candidacy.
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 11:02 AM by samdogmom
When Move-On asked why I supported endorsing Barack--that was my reason for not supporting Hillary.

She's being herself right now. Do you think this is why nearly half the country finds her "unlikable"? Maybe she should have examined "why" people say she's unlikable instead of stopping at "Well, that hurts my feelings...." during one of the earlier debates.

We simply do not need another divisive, polarizing leader in the White House! She is the wrong person for the job at this time.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Hillary has a world view that it's all about her, and everyone else is wrong.
It's tiresome and divisive. She's simply not a good a candidate.
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Infinite Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. Tonight's debate will spell the end of her. n/t
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. I agree. Tonight is it for her, and she won't come out of it looking good.
She's dead set on flying this campaign straight into the ground.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yeah, I agree, it was sad to see it come down to that level.
I liked her a whole bunch more last month.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. HamdenRice I think she over reacted about the fliers
However, without giving her a pass I would say her anger showed and I think in part because what she and Bill went through when he was president. They went through a lot of crap thrown at them by the repugs/Rove smear machine. And we aren't in her shoes so we don't know how she feels, especially what they have gone through. I think she probably should have disagreed with the fliers without the anger in her voice. That said, I also think had it been a man the MSM would be saying it was just fighting words whereas with a woman, the MSM looks at her as too emotional. Just my opinion but I think MSM favors a man over a woman to be president-in-chief.
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samdogmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. You know--there are always two ways to react to things if you feel wronged:
You can get:

1. Very angry, scream and shout, make a scene; OR
2. Express your dismay in a non-judgmental, but disappointed way and state why you feel something is unjust.

My mother was the first type of person, my father the second. Guess which one had more influence on me?

I never wanted to disappoint my Dad. When my Mom went into a rage, I tuned out. I had heard it all before and it never changed my behavior.

The way you react to things is very much a part of your personality. I find I'm far more like my mother (yuck!)--but I'm aware of her effect on me--and I try hard to emulate my Dad with my children. It's not my first reaction and takes a lot of self-control, but believe me, my children react more to "quiet disappointment" than "raging anger".

I think it may be the same with voters.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. Politics is theater. Success depends on a moving Narrative, a solid Persona & a convincing Actor.
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 11:39 AM by cryingshame
The Narrative must be compelling and able to draw various groups in. And it must be consistent. Or, should any changes occur, they must appear organic.

The Persona presented to the crowd need be one that the public can embrace or rally behind. One that gets people emotionally invested.

The Actor must be able to embody the Image a campaign is trying to project.

By choosing "Inevitable/Experienced" as a Narrative, Hillary was mortally wounded when the weakness of the campaign became apparent.

And since Hillary never developed a popular Persona to stick with, coupled with the fact she isn't a good Actor, she never managed to convince the public that any particular Image was true.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. " "Inevitable/Experienced" as a Narrative, Hillary was mortally wounded "
There is a whole book to be written on why "inevitability" was the dumbest possible theme -- after the nation had suffered through two stolen elections.

"You have no choice" was hardly the theme to pursue after the Bush years.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. And "Change" is a brilliant Narrative. It holds it's own capacity for being altered, if necessary
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. You nailed it
Hillary's strengths, to her dismay are not well-suited for running for president. I think she would be a good president. Unfortunately, running for a national office requires a capacity of felxibility for personal presentation that Hillary lacks.
As a woman running for president during a time of war she has been especially challenged by the necessity to avoid the stereotypes of "softness" that accompany femininity. She then finds herself in a position of needing to recover from the point to which she has maneuvered.
It would require a level of acting skills that would be difficult to attain.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. You nailed it
Hillary's strengths, to her dismay are not well-suited for running for president. I think she would be a good president. Unfortunately, running for a national office requires a capacity of felxibility for personal presentation that Hillary lacks.
As a woman running for president during a time of war she has been especially challenged by the necessity to avoid the stereotypes of "softness" that accompany femininity. She then finds herself in a position of needing to recover from the point to which she has maneuvered.
It would require a level of acting skills that would be difficult to attain.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Good analysis.
I agree.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. Methinks Mark Penn...
Edited on Tue Feb-26-08 11:42 AM by snooper2
got just a little overpaid...

The advisers should have got paid for each state she won, maybe that would have made them "think"...
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. She might have won the nomination if she kept to the "softer" Hillary that won NH. Why the
campaign turned on a dime and decided that negative and bitter was the way to go is the great mystery.

A very good post. I waver between sometimes feeling like you do and at other times being upset with her antics. Sometimes it seems like she wants to tear apart the party so she can run in 2012 against a 75-year old republican President McCain instead of having to wait until 2016 when she will be 68 years old (still not too old, but some might think that her time has passed).
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I like to think that's the real Hillary
Some time after that, I heard this woman on the radio speaking passionately, but calmly, is a low warm friendly voice about some issue.

After a few minutes, I realized, that's Hillary! I couldn't believe it was her!

That was one of the only times I heard that voice, and I hope that was the real her.

Given the histrionics of her soundbites over the weekend, I tend to think (unlike many in this thread) that what we saw recently wasn't the real Hillary, but the stage managed one.

If the real Hillary were allowed to play out the rest of the race, she could go out with dignity.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
27. Note also that you're comparing Gore and Kerry's GE campaigns ...
... to HRC running against Obama in the Dem primaries. One could hope that tactics would be different between the two.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-26-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Agreed, but
the idea that they were at the end of their campaigns makes them analogous.
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