The media built him up, and they are going to take him down

[MagsDem]

And pretty soon you won't be able to blame Hillary for it. If the dem party started out to nominate a guy that could be more easily swift boated then John Kerry, they couldn't have planned it any better. Hillary and Bill have had everything in the world thrown at them -- there is nothing left to say that isn't old news and won't stink of desperation.

But no, we nominate an inexperienced black "liberal" candidate from Chicago, with Hussien for a middle name, and a muslim ethic background. Brilliant. Just brilliant. There are so many avenues for attack open there it is almost as if we are begging for it. No one can tell me, after this primary election, that Dems have a brain in their heads.

You're all moaning about a picture that Drudge of all people tells you came from Clinton. And yes, you really, really, hard as it is to believe, are dumb enough to think she really put it out there. You truly have no idea how badly you've been played throughout this whole thing.

Say hello to President McCain. And damned if we don't deserve it.

[Blue-Jay]

LOL!

"But no, we nominate an inexperienced black "liberal" candidate from Chicago, with Hussien for a middle name, and a muslim ethic background. Brilliant."

What's a "muslim ethic"?

[K Gardner]

4. My favorite part is the "black liberal". Who knew???

[Blue-Jay]

9. Yeah. I liked that one too.

Good thing liberal was in quotes, and not black.

[akbacchus_BC]

203. Am on your side and lots of Americans are rooting for Senator Obama

History is in the making!

[AX10]

1. Drudge did this to agitate and divide the party.

It's that simple.

[scheming daemons]

48. So get behind our candidate (Obama) and don't let Drudge win....

....

[AX10]

57. Arrogance like that is not going to unite the party.

This thing is still not over.
I still do not like Obama.

[John Q. Citizen]

280. I hope Hill stays in until the convention, don't you?

That way, she will be forever an outsider in the Democratic Party.

We won't have to worry that she will move up in the Senate Leadership or thet she will run for President again.

Your dislike of Obama isn't a factor, except to you.

[Arkansas Granny]

245. Do you think Drudge posted this to hurt Obama? If we're talking

about letting Drudge win we should consider that his purpose was to hurt Hillary by putting her in a bad light.

[bpeale]

264. nope. i'm writing in Edwards

[deadlyaj]

248. no way

The conservative base will never rally behind mccain

[question everything]

290. With a smashing success (nt)

[Oleladylib]

2. Amen, Mags, Brilliant and True

[tabatha]

3. This is so tiresome.

The voters don't have a choice, do they?
They are mindless numbskills being led around by the media?

So, why do Obama's numbers go up soon after he starts giving rallies in any particular state?

Obama has won and will continue to win because of his WAY superior ground game.

The Media has very little effect.

[MagsDem]

11. If you really believe that you are in for a huge shock

And you haven't been paying attention to the last several presidential elections. I trust we won't hear any wailing when he is swift boated to hell and back, since "the Media has very little effect" right?

[Usrename]

259. Obama is leading a movement.

A movement that Hillary could have easily captured, except she doesn't believe in it, she doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

Hillary, like McCain, thinks Washington is working just fine for the people. She thinks all we need is a smarter George W. Bush.

Do you think this movement will just fade away? Do you think that the people that are listening to Obama will just quit listening?

[Asia Expat]

79. Very little effect?

The media that still gives bush a free ride.

The media that never gave Edwards a forum.

The media that sold the Iraq war.

The media that feeds you Britney 24/7 instead of news.

Wake up.

[MagsDem]

84. It's truly hard to believe anyone can make such an ignorant statement

It just shows the blinders that are on.

[Asia Expat]

101. The level of naivety is shocking. n/t

[Muzza]

155. "The Media has very little effect"

Well that's the most naiive statement I've read in a long while...

So why was Obama not a huge figue 3 months back?

Cmon, the Media has 100% fueled his rise. Without the Media on his side, Obama would not be anywhere near as well-known and as popular as he is. Everyone depends on the Media.

[Aviation Pro]

5. Let's see....

...here's how this thread will unfold. Eff you. Bravo. The poster is tired. A back and forth between both camps. More eff yous. Then the thread is locked.

To me it's all BS, but what the hell, Terminator, The Sarah Connor Chronicles is over.

[book_worm]

6. Wow what a rant! how dare we nominate a black man from Chicago with

"hussein" as a middle name and muslim ethnic background. Says a lot about you.

You say hello to "Prsident" McCain since you will probably be voting for him this year, as for most of us on DU we will vote for President Obama and loving it.

And if Obama is such a feather weight how come the vaulted Clinton machine can't beat him? what with her superior campaigning and tactics which would so obviously win against McCain.

[MagsDem]

15. I'm a realist

If the media and the rethugs can make a war hero into a coward, and a coward into a war hero, this is not going to be much of a challenge for them. We didn't actually have to hand it to them on a silver platter like this, but that's our base. Hopefully their Hillary hate will keep them warm for the next 8 yrs of President McCain.

[tabatha]

19. No you are just verbalizing your hopes.

[MagsDem]

23. Oh that's right -- I just accidently voted Dem for the past 29 yrs

Some of you people really live in never never land.

[avrdream]

80. Hang in there, Mags, you are correct.

Hillary supporters have been very realistic about this from the beginning. That is why WE never bought into the inevitability meme: we remember the power of the media to bring great Americans down in the name of putting a puppet in charge.

I'm not sure I really get what the mainstream media is thinking...why can't they see where this is heading?

[anigbrowl]

91. Racist, more like.

Sure, sure, you're just 'concerned' about Republican racism.

[MagsDem]

104. Save it

Everyone that thinks Obama is not electable is not a racist. Save your bullshit name calling and shreiks of racism for someone that cares.

[akbacchus_BC]

212. So why don't you think he is electable? Just asking!

[MagsDem]

230. Read the thread

[bpeale]

266. sadly obama does not represent the base of the democratic party

he lost the base a long time ago. and without the base, he can't win no matter WHO he's running against.

[D23MIURG23]

288. The Repigs can make anything a liability.

That's the chief lesson of the Kerry candidacy, and the fact that Bill and Hillary have been in the fray since '92 doesn't immunize them to that effect.

The other lesson is that smears need to be countered effectively. This was an ability Kerry lacked - he mostly ignored the swiftboat vermin, and it came off looking like an admission. Obama has been hit with a lot of attacks recently, and as far as I can tell his counters have been convincing. The Mar. 4 primaries will tell for sure, as those voters will have been exposed to the recent attacks on his patriotism and his responses.

If Obama's candidacy can survive the combined weight of Hillary's attacks and the MSM shouting him down about a flag pin, I feel alright about his chances in the GE.

[VotesForWomen]

219. he may be black but he's only 1/2 american and has a muslim background; reality check- it doesn't ma

matter what liberals on DU think, as soon as the repuke attack machine gets done with him, the masses will make their decision.

[NDambi]

224. Half American...wow!

[thesubstanceofdreams]

7. Muslim ETHIC background?

Nice freudian slip.

[MagsDem]

21. Yeah, you're right

Or you live in a world of delusions. Promise me you're not going to wail like a little girl once the media starts give all that air time to the "concerns" "some people" have about his ethnic background, his inexperience, his questionable patriotism, his "liberal" views and things you can't begin to imagine.

I'm taking names, so no whining, any of you. You asked for it, so you can't complain later on.

[scheming daemons]

33. The GOP "machine" is not more ruthless than the Clintons... you're fooling yourself if you think ...

otherwise.

If he can withstand Hillary's "Kitchen Sink Strategy", he'll withstand John McCain and a weakened GOP that the American public no longer has a stomach for.


Obama has already shown THIS election cycle that he handles attacks much better than Hillary does. Hillary has shown she's not equipped to take on McCain - as weak as McCain is.

Mismanaged campaign, and more self-inflicted damage that Brittany Spears. Hillary's campaign is a mess running against Obama - what would she be like against the GOP?


Every argument you make about Obama's "weakness" in the general is an even greater liability for Hillary.


You're letting your loyalty to your candidate cloud your judgement.


Don't worry... you'll like the Obama administration.

[MagsDem]

46. Oh man, you are SO naive

What are you going to do when you can't blame Hillary for the viral emails warning about his muslim roots, or the fact that he has no experience to qualify him as CiC? Who are you going to blame when they run ads against him like they did in TN against Harold Ford, implying he is going to snatch up all the white southern gals and blight the great white race?

Don't sit there and pretend any such thing has or will be done to him by any democrat, let alone Hillary. Obama supporters are virtually ensuring our defeat in Nov. Just don't whine when it happens. Okay?

[scheming daemons]

56. Answers

A) I never blamed Hillary for the viral emails. I know it is the GOP. I also know it isn't working and WON'T work.

B) As for "no experience to be CiC".... compared to McCain, Hillary doesn't either. It's her ONE issue against Obama, and it is completely neutralized against McCain.

C) Ads like they did in TN against Ford will work in deep-red states like Tennessee. They won't work in 80% of the country. There are many more anti-women voters in the country - especially anti-Hillary ones... than there are racist voters.

Hillary is a sure loser in November. Obama is a much stronger general election candidate.


Obama supporters are ensuring our defeat in November HOW? By supporting him?


Obama will raise three times the money that McCain will. That's a certainty. To defeat Obama, McCain will have to do it on the cheap. He doesn't have the machinery in place, or the enthusiasm of most of his own party. He will be on a shoestring budget, which is why he is whining about Obama foregoing federal funding and its limits.

With Obama and a 3-to-1 spending edge... and a media that is SCARED TO DEATH to appear racist, McCain is fighting an uphill battle with very little chance to win.

You don't understand politics, my friend. Obama is running Clinton's 1992 campaign (without bimbo eruptions)... but instead of running it against a sitting President ... he's running against the weakest possible candidate the GOP could put up.


Obama will win... and it really won't be all that close.


...and why would I whine about the Democrats ... win or lose... running their best possible candidate?


You're full of sour grapes because your candidate ran the worst campaign in modern political history. There will be a new phrase applied to sports teams or politicians or what not that FAIL even though they had seemingly insurmountable leads and/or every possible edge. It will be called "pulling a Hillary". Your Patriots did it in the Super Bowl too.

[MagsDem]

63. Again you're naive

And my sour grapes have to do with our party's base consistently shooting itself in the foot. I said the same thing in 2004. Same shit, different election. What else is new.

[scheming daemons]

64. No.. in 2004 the party went with the "establishment" candidate... which was a critical mistake...

That candidate this year is HILLARY.


By nominating Obama, the Democrats learned their lesson from 2004.

[MagsDem]

68. LOL - yeah the MA liberal was the establishment candidate

Again, you show your ignorance. They nominated him because they thought his veteran status made him invincible on the war meme, while completely ignoring what the rethugs would do with his MA liberal war protester "credentials." Dumb. Just like this.

[scheming daemons]

72. He was the "establishment" candidate in the Democratic party...who do you think it was? Dean? LOL.

[MagsDem]

77. Gephardt, Lieberman to name two

The media told you that you couldn't nominate Dean, remember?

[scheming daemons]

82. Lieberman was a Democratic Establishment candidate?? MAJOR LOL.

He polled at 5% in the Democratic party. Nobody in the party leadership supported him.


Establishment candidate? You're a freaking moron.

[MagsDem]

85. The establishment is not the voters

You folks really are clueless.

[anigbrowl]

97. In other news, up turns out not to be down.

and Magsdem turns out not to have a point.

[MagsDem]

107. Hmm, I see.... so Obama is the establishment candidate in this

election, correct? I mean, by your definition he must be, right?

[scheming daemons]

103. LOL... this is fun. Ok, sparky.... what parts of the Dem machinery supported Lieberman?

ANY?

ANY AT ALL?


You're a piece of work.....

[scheming daemons]

69. I've worked on more campaigns than you... I'm sure.... take your "naive" and shove it up your ass..

... you're clueless about politics and the current landscape in this country.


...and you'll see in November.



You're like an LBJ supporter in 1960 .... most of which thought the Dems were making an incredible mistake by nominating a young, untested 46-year-old first-term senator.

Your kind was wrong and unable to read the mood of the country then... and you're wrong now...

[MagsDem]

83. I'm sure you're wrong about working more elections

And sorry, but I have to give you another reality check, JFK wouldn't have gotten the nomination let alone won the GE without his Pappa's crooked political machine. You don't know your history very well if you don't know that. The "people" had no say in that nomination.

[scheming daemons]

95. His pappa definitely helped in WV.... but my point stands....

the LBJ supporters said his nomination would be a disaster.

Was it?

[MagsDem]

And in Chicago, and in FL

I'm guessing LBJ supporters were thinking it would be a fair and free election. He wouldn't have won without Papa fixing it.

[GoldieAZ49]

233. have you looked at what happened in 1961 between the USA & the USSR and Cuba??

The historical details and results of it?

Joe Kennedy helped across this country with his bootlegging buddies to get JFK elected, check into chicago politics.

[Dhalgren]

268. Well...he was murdered...that's a "disaster"...

:eyes:

[femrap]

106. I think many are forgetting something...

why has the msm pushed BO? Remember the MSM is owned by 5 rich, ugly white repugnants, right? And we're forgetting something else...are these evil neocons really planning on giving up their power? They have changed all the laws so Martial Law can be imposed....all we need is some Chaos, right?

How about an assassination in October...chaos....martial law. The Boomers saw it happen many times. Don't tell me they won't let the jackals out.a

I figure if enough people know of this possibility, then it just couldn't happen...at least I hope so.

[scheming daemons]

109. o...kay.....

:tinfoilhat:

[MagsDem]

114. nah, I just think it's being handed to McCain

There is no other way the rethugs could have won this round without us being stupid enough to nominate a guy that is as swift boatable as Obama. Man, our base is so stupid. Sorry to say, but we just are.

They forget that Kerry was ahead in national polling by 10% at this same point. It's a dead heat between Obama and McCain now, which tells me McCain is going to win in a landslide when they get done with Obama.

[billbuckhead]

129. Dukakis was also ahead by a huge margin

Many people are scared to death Obama will raise their taxes by a large amount.

[MagsDem]

131. He says he will raise taxes on his web site

So it will be kind of hard for him to negate that charge. But that will be the least of his worries. I doubt they will even get to the substantive issues before he's history as an electable candidate in the GE.

[femrap]

276. I can not get personally invested in

this race like I was with Kerry. His loss took a very hard toll on me...I gained 40 pounds in 2005. Good thing I don't like heroin....lol! Any way I'm back under control again and have lost much of that.

All I can say is BO better have some real fighters on this staff cuz it ain't gonna be pretty. I know the Corporations wanted to run BO...so much new dirt and no new dirt on HRC.

What worries me is who will be McCain's VP? McCain is old!! If Huckabee is VP, I will be very very scared. VERY!

I don't think our base is that stupid...I'm very much a progressive part of the base...this is a bunch of NEWBIES who have discovered politics and do not a CLUE. Most are young, but I am surprised at the number of older people who are finally discovering politics. But with the South as it is, I am sick of them ruling our nation.

I am not hopeful. I wish I could be...but I know too much and have seen too much. I really hope I am wrong.

I think that if BO is leading in October, the jackals will be called upon to do their ugly job. These neocons are NOT going to go away quietly. WE SHOULD HAVE IMPEACHED.

It's out of my control...my new mantra.

[akbacchus_BC]

201. Just back Barack and ignore the negativity .... Even us in Canada

want Obama to win. Enough with the status quo. We backing Obama. You have no idea how much of us feel that the relationship between Canada and the US will improve if Senator Obama gets the nomination. Am not saying I dislike Senator Clinton, but we don't want another legacy! I just wish you Americans will do the right thing and restore your country. Even if Sentator Clinton gets the nomination, please rally behind her, she is far better than a McCain!

[bpeale]

269. your vote doesn't count & neither do your comments

[NDambi]

226. Hillary was a sure loser..Obama has a better chance..

[bpeale]

267. i live in the real world

as much as you think racism is a thing of the past, think again. white southerners will not vote for a black man no matter what. that's a fact. you just can't take the white hoods outta those guys. not going to happen.

the swiftboating obama will get will be more all encompassing than the swiftboating of Kerry. doesn't matter whether its true. it will be all the public will hear. just like they are giving obama a venue for his platform now, they will cut his air time for that platform for the general election.

[NDambi]

225. Which is exactly why the repug machine is running focus groups now...they are weakened and have no

clue how to run against him without being viewed as racist. They are worried in a big way..

[thesubstanceofdreams]

44. First of all, your wrote ETHIC not ETHNIC

Second, muslim is NOT an ethnicity. It is a religion, and as you know religion is not inherited.
So get your facts straight before xeroxing the RW talking points.

[MagsDem]

49. Okay, well maybe you can go on TV and explain all that....

when they swift boat the shit out him. Or we can get realistic and realize you are going to sit in front of your TeeVee in horror and watch helplessly as it happens. Just don't whine about it, okay?

[tabatha]

66. Well, then this should make you feel a lot better:

"The fact that Obama has McCain on the ropes before he has officially claimed the nomination has to be worrisome for the McCain camp. If the FEC eventually rules against McCain, Obama would be able to outspend McCain 10 to 1, this would keep McCain on defense and the defense he would have would be predominantly dictated by the Mainstream Media access granted to him. "

http://www.politicallore.com/election-2008/obama-dismisses-clinton-addresses-mccain/168

[MagsDem]

87. Yeah, and Bush's FEC is going to do that

Okay, keep your blinders on. I can see you folks enjoy the fantasy world you live in.

[tabatha]

119. Yes, but this is important

whether Clinton or Obama win. And Obama has a headstart.

[MagsDem]

132. She would have the same headstart

I don't know if you realize this, but it starts all over once the primary is over. Not going to help his electibility one bit.

[woolldog]

208. This type of cynicism that oozes

out of HRC supporters (and the candidate herself) is exactly why people don't like your candidate.

[MagsDem]

211. She is the second least electable candidate

He is the number one least electable candidate. Reality has a liberal bias.

[CatnHat]

73. World of Delusions

yes. The media will have a field day. That's a given. Seems to me these Obama supporter actually think "everyone" loves Obama; while Obama loves Obama; and Obama supporters love Obama; because ???; and on and on and on. :crazy: That kind of thinking alone is delusional. There's a long road from here to the WH. If Obama supporters whine at slightest criticisms, how are they going to react when the republican smear machine really gears up; and the media just ain't nice anymore. It's one thing to live in la la lad, and quite another to come down to "reality." The republican media pundits are at it already; my friend told me today, it's non-stop "talk" about Mrs Obama, Obama's picture, Obama's patriotism, Obama's shaky friends, well you get the picture, so if you think the DU Clinton supporters were "mean" to you; you haven't seen nothing yet.

[tabatha]

122. Yes, the hard core republicans are going to throw

not only the kitchen sink but the kitchen as well, at Obama.

Unfortunately, the country is in a shambles, and they know that.
Everyone knows that.

[Cant trust em]

144. If Obama supporters are whining about a photo

that Clinton may or may not have distributed, then doesn't it stand to reason that they won't tolerate it when a Republican does it either? I've heard this line repeated a few times on DU today and I really don't understand it. The Obama campaign was smeared by someone today and Plouffe came out swinging and blasted it out of the water. Isn't that what we want from our candidate? To see something like this and strike back hard against it?

[GoldieAZ49]

236. strike back hard against it? you are kidding right?

all the 'noise' about this emailed photo got it MORE exposure! All over all the cable news channels and the big 3 all friggin day. It is probably on their websites as well.

The majority of voters do not look past what they see on the screen, they certainly don't dig for more information, they see it, it triggers an emotion and that is it! The emotion is what is remembered and acted upon.

[Cant trust em]

274. and Clinton will continue to look bad for it

There's nothing wrong with the photo, only the idea of it being used as a political weapon.

[GoldieAZ49]

275. It doesn't matter if Clinton looks bad for it - what matters is all the people

that will vote based on the negative emotion in November

Look at the long view, most won't even remember that Clinton was blamed for smear politics, what they will remember is Obama dressed like a muslim combined with all the negative shit and scare tactics that will be thrown at him in the GE

[Cant trust em]

277. If used effectively this whole situation could have been positive

If Clinton played her cards right she could have used the photo to highlight the RW conspiracy of lies. If Obama plays his cards right he can use this as an example of dirty tricks and race baiting that needs to be stamped out in politics. Effective communication can spin this into a win for everyone.

[leftofcool]

8. Yep!

I have been saying that all along.

Left of Cool

[Thrill]

10. Barack will be President

Whether you like it or not

[MagsDem]

141. President of the Barack Obama fan club, maybe

But that's about it.

[Thrill]

157. Bitter Betty

You've been spreading your hate on this board for two months. You've managed to influence no one. Keep trying though.

[MagsDem]

169. Well you are full of yourself, aren't you?

Kind of like your candidate. No one's opinion matters but his. No one's opinion matters but yours. Any talk that doesn't praise him up and down is "hate." And you wonder why sane people see you as cultists. Geez, you're being parodied on SNL and you still don't get it.

[akbacchus_BC]

202. Gosh, I wish I had your enthusiasm. Wouldn't that be great?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

12. Long live white dynasties!

:eyes:

[MagsDem]

25. Or male ones

I know it's too much to ask for us to nominate someone that is electable. That's why I stopped giving money to the party.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

29. Yes, someone who loses 11 in a row is electable.

[MagsDem]

34. The primary and the GE have no relation to each other

Except for Bill Clinton, we have a near perfect record over the past 40 yrs of nominating an unelectable candidate in the GE. Ooops, we did it again.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

39. I could have sworn Bill Clinton won some primaries.

:rofl:

[MagsDem]

61. He is a whole 100 delegates ahead

out of over 2000 delegates. He has hardly run away with it. He owes all of that lead to the completely undemocratic caucus system in this country. For instance, he won the WA state caucuses by a huge margin -- something like 30%. But when we had the non-binding primary vote in WA state a few weeks later 3x as many people voted in it, and he won by only 3% instead of 30%. Unforunately those people's votes don't count when it comes to selecting our party's nominee. That's how it is in most states he won -- the PEOPLE's votes don't count. Just the activists. Makes me ashamed of our party to be honest with you.

He may get the nod, but it is arrogant and foolish to pretend he has anymore actual voters behind him than she does.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

78. You suddenly have a problem with caucuses now?

Plus, Hillary keeps bleeding superdelegates and isn't able to keep up money-wise. She can't do it.

[MagsDem]

102. I've ALWAYS had problems with caucuses

Because they don't actually give the average voter an opportunity to vote. And they are pretty easily bought if you can hire enough kids to "organize" for you. And because there is not even a cursory attempt to ensure that those voting in them actually are registered to vote or even live where they are voting. I can tell you at least 15 people in my precinct out of about 52 voters did not live in this precinct. I have worked the polls here for years, and knocked all the doors. There were at a minimum 15 kids voting for Obama in my precinct that live no where near here. And I happen to think that more than 52 people in my precinct should have had an opportunity to have their voice heard.

As I said, 3x times as many voted in our non-binding primary, and the results were very different than the caucuses. What do you have against voters having a chance to be heard and listened to?

[scheming daemons]

81. With what's left and the apportionment setup.. 100 delegates at this stage is nearly insurmountable.

Basic math.

Hillary needs 58% of the remaining unpledged delegates just to pull even with Obama.


She has only gotten more than 58% of the delegates in two states so far.


9 of the final 15 states are HEAVILY favored for Obama.... so in the 6 states she can win, she'll need to win more than 65% of the delegates.


The superdelegates will break to whichever candidate is in the lead in pledged delegates. Bank on it.


She's toast. the delegate lead, while "only" 100... is effectively insurmountable.

[MagsDem]

113. Oh I will grant you that.....

But it's ridiculous to pretend he ran away with it. If not for the undemocratic caucus process he'd be losing. My point was it's foolish to pretend he is the undisputed choice of the people. He's not. He will win it by a nose at best.

[GoldieAZ49]

168. Bill Clinton won with 43% in the GE, thanks to Perot

he never would have been elected if Perot had not run

Newsflash for you, winning every state in the democrat primary does not mean you get elected in the GE

[Zynx]

182. That is such garbage. Every study done shows Clinton would have won anyway without Perot on the

ballot. You know it too.

[GoldieAZ49]

194. This I know:

Democrat Bill Clinton received only 43% of the popular vote.

Reform party candidate Ross Perot received 19% of the popular vote.


These are actual votes, not studies...deal with the facts.

[Zynx]

204. Yeah and you think Perot's vote only came out of Bush?

Are you really that biased to believe that?

[scheming daemons]

36. Hillary "47% Negative Rating" Clinton is the LEAST electable candidate we could put out there.....

....

[MagsDem]

65. Yeah, and 39% of 'em come from red states

That's another dumb thing about our base. They think National polls mean jack squat in a presidential election. I wonder how many times it has to be proven they don't before you folks get a clue. I won't hold my breath.

[scheming daemons]

74. Keep pushing the 50%+1 philosophy... failed in 2000 and 2004......

the 50-state strategy worked in 2006.


Howard Dean has it right.... you are a lost cause.

[MagsDem]

133. A 50 state strategy would entail nominating a candidate

that has a fucking prayer outside the blue states. YOU are the lost cause. THIS party is the lost cause -- they simply will not nominate a candidate that can win a red state. It's like it's off limits or something. Stupid.

[anigbrowl]

108. Gee, wonder why they don't put you in charge of the DNC.

Clearly, you are so much smarter and wiser than everyone else in the Democratic party.

[MagsDem]

118. I thought the beef was that the Democratic party.....

was supporting Hillary and they shouldn't be. Isn't that the super delegate whine we hear every day here? Sheesh, there are whole movements afoot to get the supers to switch their support from her to him, right?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. In fairness, and speaking as a curent Clinton supporter, we settled on the two worst candidates

Any party that gave Joe Biden one fucking delegate while fawning over an unlikable woman and a nice black man who would be the least experienced person to gain the office in 147 years was never all THAT serious about winning anyway.

(And then we hustled the good looking southern white male off the stage as fast as possible.)

I have supported Clinton since Biden dropped because she could manage a brute-force win, but her campaign made some assumptions looking toward winning the genral that proved foolish looking in the primaries.

If we win in 2008 it will be like 1976 and 1992... we will back into it because the other side has fallen apart.

I think we will win.

But our party is... lets' say, quixotic. It's lovely, but still quixotic.

[Blue_Roses]

20. "an unlikable woman and a nice black man ..." WTF?

did you get this from "Driving Miss Daisy," 'cause this sounds like a very racist comment.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

22. When I start caring about what you think sounds racist, you'll be the first to know.

Hillary is unlikable, and is a woman.

Obama is a nice black man.

I think those descriptions are kind of widely accepted, but if you enjoy seeing things as racist that clearly are not, that's your sad emotional condition.

Off to ignore land with you.

[Blue_Roses]

26. oh please, it's like a child stomping and screaming while they have

their fingers in their ears. :eyes:

[MagsDem]

197. maybe you should speak to Binka

And about 100 other Obama supporters, or should I say "cultists" on this forum. Ignore is their second mantra after "yes we can" even though none of them actually know the answer to yes we can, what?

[MagsDem]

31. I agree with the two worst

I just think she is more electable of the two. They are going to have a field day with him, and it's going to start well before the convention. I honestly don't think he has a chance in hell. There are just too many areas of vulnerability. Let's face it, half his support comes from Hillary hate. A hate our base has been trained to have by the rethugs and the media.

Our party is stupid. Humprey, Mondale, Kerry, Dukakis, Obama stupid, to be exact.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

38. She WAS the more electable. I see it as 50-50 today.

The problem is that a situation has arisen where--fairly or unfairly--she would have an alienated base and McCain is, unfortunately, not viewed as threatening by folks in the middle.

So I view she and Obama as equally electable from this point.

Changing circumstances must change our formulations.

The media/CW crowd hates being thwarted. They moved en masse to eliminate her, and it would be swallowing their collective pride to let her win in a general election if she somehow got the nomination.

[Cant trust em]

149. Why is Clinton more electable?

Even if half of Obama's support is Clinton hate then that's support she never would be getting. Those are votes that would probably be going to a republican if he weren't in the race. Whether that hate is trained by the groups you mention it's still there.

[MagsDem]

192. Honestly, sad to say, but because....

She's not black, she has southern roots, and her middle name is not Hussien. On the more hopeful side, because Bill represented 8 yrs of peace and prosperity, and she has 35 yrs of experience, and because people are ready for that again. Experience, peace, prosperity. But I do have to admit, the media ensured you had the two most unelectable candidates to choose from. Sheeple are to blame.

[Cant trust em]

273. So you don't subscribe to the 40% already hate her thing?

I typically see her candidacy as already being in the hole with so much of the country already lined up for or against her.

[Recursion]

283. It's bizarre to me, but her proponents seem willfully blind to this fact

She has higher negatives than anyone who has ever run for President.

Somehow those are supposed to dissolve in November.

[Debi]

14. Are there more republicans than Democrats and other-party voters combined? n/t

[BRLIB]

16. If Drudge is the source you can believe he is a liar and his site must

be shut down by his ISP, and those MSMs who used his lies must have their FCC licenses revoked likewise...

Just as Nader's run is all about himself, Drudge's lies are also.

[BigBearJohn]

17. Where ya been Mags? Missed you the last coupla days. K/R

[MagsDem]

51. Ah, well, work intervenes

I travel a lot. And then I have to ruin my evening by popping in here and watching people go nutso over a Drudge planted story, which only proves how naive they are, and how effed we are in the GE. God dang, what are they going to do when it becomes clear they have been totally set up by the media and the rethugs??? The wailing will be heard near and far, and they will probably STILL find a way to blame it on Hillary. It's a rethugs wet dream, don't you think?

Nice to see a post from you though. Makes checking in here worth it after all. :)

[BigBearJohn]

243. Wow. You encapsulated everything I was thinking. (as usual)

[loveangelc]

18. yes, we should base who we vote for out of fear.

gawd it's hard to believe people can be so idiotic.

[MagsDem]

75. But people ARE that idiotic

Which is why we have been treated to GW Bush, the worst president in history, for 4 yrs after that was already absolutely proven. Nominating someone that doesn't have about a trillion things to be attacked on and swift boated for would be what some of us would call smart. But hey, you will have your Hillary hate to keep you nice and warm the next 8 yrs. I guess that will have to be victory enough for our party.

[stillcool]

24. The 'people' built him up...

haven't you been watching??

[meow mix]

28. voters did it.

i saw no building, other than that done by obama and his team.

[MagsDem]

35. Yeah, cause the media told you to

No whining when they swift boat the hell out of him now. :)

[scheming daemons]

43. Yeah... 20,000 person crowd after 20,000 person crowd is showing up because the "media" made them...

...

1,000,000 donors have given an average of $148 of their hard-earned money to his campaign because the "media" made them do it.


(Comparatively speaking, Hillary has less than 100,000 donors, averaging about $1,300 each)


You simply lack common sense.

[Drunken Irishman]

50. Oh bullshit!

I don't know how long you've been following this damn primary season, but if you even had one eye open throughout 2007, you could see how they built Hillary up as this unstoppable force. They were set to cancel the primaries and announce her as the next President of the United States.

You forget that it was Iowa which shed some light on Clinton's struggles. Iowans were not duped by the press, they saw Clinton's campaign stumble with a piss-poor ground game. Obama seized control of this race in the snowy fields of Iowa and has built a coalition of support that even has chipped into Clinton's base. She ran a pathetic campaign, even admitting they had no plan for after Super Tuesday because they were all convinced she would walk to the nomination. And why shouldn't have they been? That's what we heard every damn day in 2007 -- Hillary will win the nomination with ease.

Well someone forgot to tell the voters that. Hillary's undoing is not because of the media, but because they failed to run a serious campaign. They got cocky and failed to plan for any worst case scenario. Face it, Obama has out campaigned her and now she's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[blonndee]

89. Good post.

Truth can be hard to face, though.

[MagsDem]

92. You've been totally played

Obama has been coated with teflon that is going to be stripped off the day he gets the nod if not before. The media told you Dean was not presidential, so he support dropped like a rock. They told you Bush never lies, so he got re-elected. They told John Edwards didn't exist. So fucking played they have you supporting a guy with no experience that is as swift boatable as a candidate can get, and that is going to get CREAMED in the GE.

[Drunken Irishman]

98. You keep telling yourself that.

And what makes you think it would be any easier with Clinton? Oh you can say she's vetted, but she also starts the general with a negative rating close to 50%. I doubt, under the right-wing attacks, that number would drop.

[scheming daemons]

100. Ok.... let's put actual MONEY on this.... you're all talk.....

How about $500... Obama becomes President, I win. Anyone else become president, you win.


I'll send you a private email so we have a communication line. $500.


NOW you going to put your money where your mouth is? I'll make it even easier for you. If I win, I'll donate the $500 to your favorite charity. If you win... you can do what you want with the money. Buy yourself some good drugs - better than the ones you are currently taking, anyway. Those apparently suck.



I won't hold my breath.....

[MagsDem]

110. I would take that bet if I knew you....

In a heart beat. Easy $500 bucks. But given that I don't, no, don't hold your breath. I'm not stupid enough to make a bet with a screen name that will disappear when Obama's ass gets kicked.

[NDambi]

232. Disappear or not, what's the harm..if the poster is no longer around it doesn't change the outcome..

take the bet..

[scheming daemons]

279. My account was created Sept of 2003.... yours in July of 2007.....

....I think we all know which account name is likely to "disappear".



Coward.....

[Cant trust em]

151. If they can swiftboat Kerry, they can swiftboat anyone

The man had a flawless service record and they dragged it through the mud. They'll do whatever the fuck they feel like. It's how you deal with it that matters. We can't spend our whole lives living in fear of the RW smear machine. They'll call their own grandmothers a whore if they can win an election out of it.

I repeat, it's how you deal with it that matters.

[MagsDem]

159. So let's make it easy for them, right?

Yeah, let's pick a black liberal from Chicago, with little experience with Hussien for a middle name, and muslim background. Hey, I have a great idea.... let's go one better in 2012 and nominate a gay atheist whose parents are from Pakistan, and whose only political experience is a decade on the San Franciso city council.

[GoldieAZ49]

238. touche!!!!

let's go one better in 2012 and nominate a gay atheist whose parents are from Pakistan, and whose only political experience is a decade on the San Franciso city council.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And HOPE everything has CHANGED by then!!!!

aw shucks, with an atheist there will be no celestial choirs singing :rofl:

[akbacchus_BC]

221. Gosh, sour grapes all over again. He is winning. Join the progressive group, will ya!

[woolldog]

223. No, she's stuck between barack and a hard place.

[stillcool]

126. what media?

[MADem]

27. Mitt Romney's gotta be BULLSHIT.

After all, polygamy in his family went all the way back to his grampa, who ran to Mexico with his wives. And that WAS a topic with him.

BO's father was married when he married BO's mother, and he married AGAIN after that divorce, as well. I guess the first wife didn't have a problem with the "First Wife" designation. Cultural difference.

BO's got a few brothers we've never heard about to now.

I'll bet if Mitt had gotten the nod, he would have plugged that story like a cheesy talk show host, to mitigate his own history. The question is, will he hand over his OPPO research to McCain? His handiwork is all over that NYT story.

Link, to preempt any requests:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=506338&in_page_id=1770

[MagsDem]

37. Mitt DIDN'T get the nod because rethugs aren't stupid

Unlike us.

[scheming daemons]

45. The party that nominated Bob Dole in '96 isn't stupid?

Don't mistake it... this is the Bob Dole nomination all over again. The Repugs are conceding this election with this choice.

[MagsDem]

112. Yeah, you keep telling yourself that

[eridani]

30. Here's a clue for you

No Dem candidate is immune, and that goes double for Clinton.

[MagsDem]

32. That's true

But with him, it will be like shooting ducks in a barrel. Just watch.

[SoCalDem]

40. Yup they used to like Mccain, and now they are going after him..

That;s who you meant..right?? :evilgrin:

[MagsDem]

52. Really? All those stories about the mean, "liberal" NYT

telling all those lies, lies, lies about the poor guy are hurting him, huh? Or do you not own a TeeVee???

[spag68]

41. Sad as it is

there is some truth to what you have posted. I've voted Dem 45 years, as a labor liberal, and will vote for our candidate. My worst fear is what they will do if it looks like he or she is going to win. We desperately need 60 votes in the senate, and I just don't see it. Still I hope for the best.

[mopinko]

42. we built him up. we the people. we the people who actually

KNOW him. we the people of illinois started this. the media could not stop him if they tried.

[MagsDem]

53. Enjoy your delusions while you can.....

... after all the damage has already been done. No crying when they swift boat him though, right? You asked for it.

[mopinko]

60. i have no fear. none.

:shrug: we build them tough here.

[MagsDem]

94. The dem party base loves to lose

That's all there is to it.

[mopinko]

263. you would know. you are not only predicting it, you are

nudging it along.
don't worry, tho, it is you whiners that will lose. obama will win, and so will the democratic party. the 50 state strategy is about to make history.

[jlake]

47. Sadly I agree.

[mdmc]

54. Just like Kerry 04, it is a loss I am proud to take

I never thought that Bush could be beat in 04. I liked Dead cause he stood against the popular Iraq war.
But Kerry was a liberal, and if he was against the war, he would have been my ideal choice.
We might have done better, perhaps win, if we had our joementum. But that would have been a loss for progressives, even if we won.
I don't mind losing to McCain as long as we stand our ground. Obama is a little too DLC for me, but I dig on his words big time. And that is enough for me.

To put it another way, I would rather lose with Obama then win with Hillary. I feel like such a hater.

[BzaDem]

58. So much for SCOTUS

In that case, you are saying that you would rather have a fundamentalist Supreme Court for the next 20 years. Roe will be a distant memory. So will laws that uphold voting rights. Anti-sex-discrimination and anti-race-discrimination laws will be long gone. The ability for 527s to spend unlimited amounts of money destroying our candidates will continue to be protected by the first amendment (which is why we keep LOSING ELECTIONS). But I guess all of that is peanuts compared to winning with Hillary to some people.

[mdmc]

71. the only way that workers will get a REAL new deal is by

suffering neo-con rule for long periods of time.

I am pretty left of the party. A leftist really. I think that any of the 3 (Mac,HRC,BO) will be fine.

None of them will help the workers over corporations.

I like BO cause he is charming.
I like HRC cause the (dumb) neo-cons see her at the devil (as opposed to seeing her as one of their own).
I like Mac cause he knows the horrors of war.

America will be "fine" with any of them at the helm.

Eventually, the workers will UNITE. Then it is ON!

Peace and low stress and welcome to DU.

[MagsDem]

121. Yep, that's why we always lose

Nice to see someone finally admit it. You don't give a shit what rethug presidents do to this country, so long as you can feel all pure. Now if only we could get you to feel as stupid as that actually is.

[mdmc]

127. well, to be fair, I live in NYS, so my electoral vote will go to the dem

But I really think we will be just fine no matter who wins. Sure, the working class will continue to suffer, but I think that those that are comfortable now will continue to be so.

I don't feel all pure. I feel that the USA is either just fine, or just fucked. Either way, what can we do about it?

This ain't 1776 and I doubt we will ever have a revolution again.

Peace and low stress and God bless.

[BzaDem]

55. Thank you for posting this!

I have been saying the same thing for months. I feel like I'm talking to a wall, just by asking people to look at the history of past elections. We are electing the most swiftboatable candidate in decades. Don't get me wrong -- I think Obama would be a fine president. But I don't think he can get elected. People on this board talk as if he will have a 40-48 state sweep or something, based on red-state democratic caucus results. If and when swiftboating continues, I think there may be a 40-48 state sweep, but it isn't going to be Obama that's doing the sweeping. Any time anyone brings up information negative about his background (that has been out there for Republicans to feast on for MONTHS), they get flamed for being a freeper. So much for realism.

[HooptieWagon]

59. Thankyou for today's racist fearmongering talking points from HillaryIs44

<yawn>

[robbedvoter]

62. ABC just did a scathing piece on Obama - voting record in state senate + Rezko

not much substance - but a very nasty tone. they lost their patience - are chumping at the bit to do their worst.

[BzaDem]

70. I'm amazed they have started already.

I would have assumed they would have waited until after the convention to bring down our candidate. Guess they are assuming it is already over (which they are also spinning) and just trying to look objective, after they have run Hillary's candidacy into the ground.

[robbedvoter]

256. What? and be scooped the delicious dish by someone else? No way!

[Bicoastal]

67. What the hell is a "Muslim ethic (sic) background"?

BTW, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Everyone knows that Westerners are the chosen ones--why let someone of Non-Western European Ancestry have a shot? If the bigots in the GOP says it must be, it must be--right?

[malik flavors]

76. This statement was made by an individual with an equality avatar

"But no, we nominate an inexperienced black "liberal" candidate from Chicago, with Hussien for a middle name, and a muslim ethic background. Brilliant. Just brilliant."

Seem strange to anyone else?

[JeffR]

90. "Strange" is not quite the word that came to my mind reading the OP

The words that came to mind would probably get me tombstoned.

[Binka]

176. Jesus Jeff I Am Reading This Thread Gob-Smacked. I Have The OP On Ignore

But I know exactly who is being discussed. JESUS!

[MagsDem]

193. Oh really? Then how do you explain why you respond...

to my posts? So FOS. You keep saying I'm on ignore, but somehow you always have an opinion about what I am posting. Grow up. People who put other people in ignore are basically incapable of dealing with an opinion that differs from their own, or incapable of ignoring what they don't want to read without having it erased from their view. Both are completely immature, which is how I view many Obama supporters, so no surprise.

Grow up.

[NDambi]

234. Didn't you put a poster on ignore, earlier in this thread. Didn't you say, off to ignore land? lol

[GoldieAZ49]

240. BTW when someone is on 'ignore' the threads they start don't show for you to open

just so you know that BS line is, well bullshit

this is actually the best thread that has been started in over a week

[Midlodemocrat]

271. Word.

:thumbsup:

[MagsDem]

116. I wouldn't vote to nominate a gay guy either

Realism. Wake up to the world you live in.

[psychopomp]

86. Don't be a coward!

Guess what...those widening poll numbers demonstrate that there are a majority of Dems and undecideds who are getting on board the Obama campaign and they already know all of that stuff.

Americans want to believe we live in a country where all that old politics of division is a thing of the past. Barack Obama will stomp McCain.

[MagsDem]

125. Uh huh, you keep believing that

The politics of division is a thing of the past.....

Unless you are an Obama supporter, in which case you've spent the last 6 months sowing it everywhere you could. LOL. Amazing how people can believe such complete bullshit when model the exact opposite behavior they are touting.

I have never seen anything like this outside the rethug party.

[ORDem]

88. So much horse puckey. Sour grapes! Take your whining elsewhere.

It's Hillary (and Bill) that are the champions of pin the blame on anyone else but themselves.

[MrMickeysMom]

93. I'm in agreement...

...for the exact reasons you state. This really worries me.

I just was over to read some of the "so, why did you turn towards Obama?" thread. There's lots about "I was sold after his brilliant speech" and not one comment about the leadership and smarts to make the right moves against that big fucking Swift boating, Karl Rove infused, hate filled Republican machine.

I'm sure this party is splitting down the middle and lots of HRC supporters aren't even planning to VOTE, if he's nominated. This is too Godamned serious.

... and pathetically sad.

[JeffR]

96. If you're trying to demonstrate to the rest of us that you're a dope

Mission Accomplished!! You can take a breather now.

[Binka]

179. Hip Hip Hurray!

Thanks!

[MagsDem]

181. I guess we'll see, won't we?

I'll make you a deal. If he wins I will prostrate myself before DU and apoligize profusely for my misjudgment, even though I think he will be as bad a president as Bush.

[femrap]

99. I got my first email from my crazy uncle today

regarding BO. It was discussing BO's connections to COMMUNISTS!!!! I was just floored. I didn't think there were any Communists left anywhere??? I thought he would be more concerned with the Islam ties.

I read quite a bit today about BO's extended family...it's very hard to keep it straight. BO Sr. was married to 2 white women (Ann who is BO's mother and Ruth who had 2 children with BO's father), Kezia (his first wife who is now living in UK and had a number of children with BO Sr.) and had a child with another African woman.

BO's father was a horrid person...beating women, self-centered egotist, alcoholic....driving drunk and had an accident that resulted in his losing his legs...but he just kept right on drinking and ended up in another car accident and finally died. I hope BO has his mother's disposition...his father was awful. BO should be glad he abandoned him at age 2.

[scheming daemons]

111. Sounds a lot like Bill Clinton's early childhood......

...

[JeffR]

120. If they're at the point where all they can do is call him a Commie

then your anecdote pretty much demonstrates why the OP is talking crap.

"This just in on Fox: Obama's ties to Whig Party hierarchy exposed!!!"

[MagsDem]

123. "all they can do"????? LMAO!!

Oh man, you guys are soooooooo naive. So, so naive.

[JeffR]

128. Spare me the pontificating

You don't like Obama. Fine. Stop pretending that your plastic fantastic talking points have anything worthwhile to say about his vulnerability. They only represent your dislike of him. That's fair enough, but don't try to take it further. You're coming across as a horse's ass.

[MagsDem]

130. Uh huh

You're right, the media does not exist. Red state voters are dying to vote for black liberal from Chicago with a muslim middle name and ethnic background. The rethugs will not say anything about that stuff, nor his woeful inexperience. And the tooth fairy really does exist.

[JeffR]

135. Uh huh

and a carpetbagging senator whose last name happens to be the same as that of the conservatives' appointed piñata is just gonna sail to resounding success in red states across the nation. While the fair and balanced MSM trip over each other singing her praises all through the fall. Sure.

[MagsDem]

137. Neither of them is a particularly good choice

... I've said that over and over. But he is a gauranteed loss. No doubt about it.

[JeffR]

142. I'll agree with you half-way on this

I think we had far better choices a few months ago, though none without some baggage and vulnerabilities. But on the latter point, nothing is guaranteed, assuming the votes are counted properly. If he's the nominee, he looks good for the win. Same goes for her, but the difference is that her chances of gaining the nomination are beginning to look slim.

[Binka]

183. A Horse's Ass Is Prettier & Smells Better n/t

[Seeker30]

105. I completely agree

Its been obvious for the past few months the way the right wingers have been praising Obama and completely trashing Hillary.

Anyone that believes Tucker and Scarborough actually want an Obama in there have got to have a screw loose.

[Strelnikov_]

115. "muslim ethic background"

Wow.

Um, wait, what exactly is a "muslim ethic background". I thought Islam was a religion, not an ethnicity.

I am confused.

[MagsDem]

117. You need some education then

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry.<1> Ethnic identity is also marked by recognition from others of the distinctiveness of a group.<2> and by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioral or biological traits.<1><3>

Glad to have the oppotunity to educate you.

[VenusRising]

136. Actually, you shouldn't condescend to others

when you are the one who did not proof read your OP well enough to realize you said "Muslim ETHIC" - you know....minus the "n". The question asked of you was a fair question considering the context of the rest of your post.

[MagsDem]

138. Ah, so you knew it was a typo, and just decided to be immature

Thanks. I got it.

[VenusRising]

146. I'm not the poster that quoted you!!

You were the one that was being immature with someone who didn't understand. I will stand up for other DUers if I feel they are being bullied.

You might want to read usernames before you go accusing people of being immature.

[MagsDem]

152. My comment to you stands

It's clear it was a typo, and it's also clear neither one of you understand the definition of the word ethnic.

[VenusRising]

160. I never made any comment about your OP.

I understand the definition of the word ethnic just fine, thank you very much. I was pointing out that you shouldn't be condescending to someone because you typed something without proofreading it and then get called on your meaning of it. Either that or you knew it was a typo and left it in disingenuously to bait people into questioning you so you could condescend to them.

[MagsDem]

162. Doesn't sound like you understand the definition

You might want to read your post again. :)

[VenusRising]

166. You're delusional.

I never commented on the definition of the word ONLY that you misspelled it which lead to misunderstandings because the letter you left out changes the word completely. And then you were condescending to another DUer because of your mistake.

Nice try though.

[MagsDem]

170. If you understood the definition you wouldn't have....

posted that it was a fair question, because you would have understood that ethnic also refers to religious as well as cultural identity. Don't blame me because you jumped in to give a big woo hah to a poster that doesn't understand what the word means, only to reveal that you didn't either.

[VenusRising]

171. Whatever.

You twist yourself into such knots I don't know how you'll ever undo yourself.

[Binka]

186. I'm only Reading the comments not on ignore but twisted is putting it lightly.

Very confused person.

[MagsDem]

188. Spoken like a true Obama supporter

Who also doesn't know the definition of ethnic.

[Strelnikov_]

246. Thanks for the dictionary quote.

Ethnicity, in popular use in the United States today, generally refers to a race or culture, not religion.

How often have you heard Baptists referred to as an ethnicity? Catholics?

Or, are you saying that all Muslims, because of their religion, are the same? The modern/moderate Muslim in Toronto? The sheep herder outside of Kandahar? The Wahabbist cleric in Jedda?


I think I know what you intended with your statement, as I think most here do.

[incapsulated]

124. What can I say? It's all true. *sigh* n/t

[complain jane]

134. k & r

[apocalypsehow]

139. Too bad, so sad - HRC is still going to lose. Your OP is just sour grapes, with a dash of

race-baiting thrown in. Nice.

:eyes:

[Cant trust em]

140. So we're not supposed to nominate black people?

Or Muslims? I really hope that you don't believe what you're typing. Literally, this post makes me sad.

[MagsDem]

147. I think it's the combination that will kick his ass

A black, "liberal" inexperienced candidate with muslim ethnic background. Ultra, ultra swift boatable. It would be more sad if he was a decent candidate. Unfortunately the sum total of him seems to be a bunch of warmed over platitudes.

Hard to believe he is too cowardly to be photographed with Gavin Newsome because he is afraid of getting the gay cooties, and then thinks dressing up like a he did for that drudge picture was smart.

[cooolandrew]

143. Don't you just love us. It's progress or nothing no comprimises. God bless.

[MagsDem]

153. That's why keep getting nothing

So, no, I don't just love it. I'm kind of sick of nothing. And I don't think there is anything "blessed" about it.

[dailykoff]

145. Wishful thinking.

They are TRYING to take him down, and failing.

[MagsDem]

161. Oh man, are you in for an eye opening

[Skip Intro]

148. Some have known this for months.

[HuffleClaw]

150. some have been saying this all along

about the both of 'em.

[MagsDem]

156. It's true about both of them to some extent

Biden, Richardson, Edwards all would have had a better shot if the base had gotten behind them. But the media forbid, and the base did the media's bidding, as usual.

Hillary has already had all the bad shit said about her. Obama, they haven't even started with yet. It's going to be a very painful GE season.

[Thrill]

158. Maybe for you

But the rest of us true Democrats will be celebrating

[Muzza]

154. No doubt they will in due course...it's all a game...

[Occam Bandage]

163. A black liberal? Holy shit, he's a black liberal? A MUSLIM BLACK LIBERAL?

OMG OH NO!!!!!!!!!

[MagsDem]

172. You're taking the words right out of the red stater's mouth

So much for the 50 state strategy, eh? Promise me next election you will get on the reality train? No probably not. Your type prefers to lose.

[Occam Bandage]

173. Seeing as y'all have lost 11 in a row and are still comin' back for more,

I'd say you're the ones who enjoy losing.

[MagsDem]

177. I'm not "ya' all"

I only voted for Hillary because she is the lesser of the evils the media has left us. They left us with the two most unelectable candidates we could choose from. No wailing from you when he is getting swift boated. You DID ask for it. No wailing either when the SCOTUS is all hard core right wing nuts either. You can proudly say you worked for it -- hard.

[Occam Bandage]

180. "They left us with the two most unelectable candidates" See, that's funny, because

Obama is winning election after election. Clinton has won a good number of them as well. The "electable" guys, all combined, managed to score one second-place finish between them all.

[MagsDem]

184. All that prove is you are foolish enough to think that has anything....

Whatsofuckingever to do with the GE. Honestly, these kind of comments are what make me sure I am right. His supporters don't seem to have even a basic understanding of the difference between a primary and a general election.

[Occam Bandage]

185. Oh, sure we do. One of the biggest factors is

the extent to which a candidate can control their message and control the media narrative. Both Clinton and Obama are very good at this; Obama is far better at it than Clinton is. Edwards sucked at it. Richardson was atrocious at it. Biden, Dodd, and Kucinich were non-starters at it.

As for the GE dynamics? Obama has far higher support among indies, and far higher crossover support, than any other candidate who's been in the running this year. There's simply no criterion by which he can be called "unelectable," unless you want to start talking "OMG HE'S BLACK." But, frankly, the people who aren't going to be voting for the black guy aren't going to be voting for the Democrat.

[MagsDem]

191. Yeah, right

You've got a lot of learning to do. And the media will keep playing you until you wise up. Hey, do you also believe the media didn't know Bush was going to go after Iraq almost immediately after 911? Here's a newsflash for you... they did. All that pretending they did, that it was news to them when he rolled it out in Sept of 2002.... guess what, they were lying. Completely, utterly, totally playing you all for idiots and fools, and ensuring that Bush got his war. I posted this under another screen name years ago. You think I'm full of shit. You're going to find out who is full of shit really soon.

They are going to swift boat the shit out of him and act all innocent while they do it. Watch it. Count on it. BO is never going to be president. This is simply the best route the media could come up with to ensure another rethug win in the face of the horrible failure that was Bush.

[Occam Bandage]

198. Well, there's a convincing rebuttal.

1: I'm right.
2: The media is totally uncontrollable by anything but Republicans. It answers to them as a demon to its master.
3. You're wrong.
4. They're going to attack Obama.
5. BO will not be President.

So, er, do you have anything but paranoid ipsedixitism?

[MagsDem]

205. It should be convincing

All you have to do is look at past history to know I am telling you the truth. I used to think that a thousand people couldn't keep a conspiracy secret. But after the 2000 election, and then the Iraq war roll out I know it is entirely possible. Because people don't listen, and the media knows it is entirely capable of drowning out all other voices.

Watch and see. This photo blamed on Clinton is only the first salvo. They conned you into nominating a guy they are going to destroy and then claim they had nothing to do with it, just like with Kerry. Get ready. You played right into their hands, and you will have no one to blame but yourselves when it happens.

[GoldieAZ49]

164. Obama Comedown Syndrome

google shows a whole list of links

this is the NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/opinion/19brooks.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

When the magic fades
snip

Up until now The Chosen One’s speeches had seemed to them less like stretches of words and more like soul sensations that transcended time and space. But those in the grips of Obama Comedown Syndrome began to wonder if His stuff actually made sense. For example, His Hopeness tells rallies that we are the change we have been waiting for, but if we are the change we have been waiting for then why have we been waiting since we’ve been here all along?

snip

Obama says he is practicing a new kind of politics, but why has his PAC sloshed $698,000 to the campaigns of the superdelegates, according to the Center for Responsive Politics? Is giving Robert Byrd’s campaign $10,000 the kind of change we can believe in?

snip

These doubts lead O.C.S. sufferers down the path to the question that is the Unholy of the Unholies for Obama-maniacs: How exactly would all this unity he talks about come to pass?

How is a 47-year-old novice going to unify highly polarized 70-something committee chairs? What will happen if the nation’s 261,000 lobbyists don’t see the light, even after the laying on of hands? Does The Changemaker have the guts to take on the special interests in his own party — the trial lawyers, the teachers’ unions, the AARP?

snip

The victims of O.C.S. struggle against Obama-myopia, or the inability to see beyond Election Day. But here’s the fascinating thing: They still like him. They know that most of his hope-mongering is vaporous. They know that he knows it’s vaporous.

****************

And you are right, it will be way to late to do anything about it...it probably already is

[MagsDem]

175. There is one thing our base excels at....

And that is nominating totally unelectable, and in this case, FOS candidates. Mark my words, the media knows exactly what it is doing here. It's a shame folks are such sheeple for them. I used to think you had to be rethug to be a sheeple. Now I see we are just as susceptible.

Hell will literally freeze over before I vote for a candidate who looks me in the eye and lies like BO does, and I don't care what letter is after his name. Doesn't take PAC money, but has a PAC? Doesn't take lobbyist money, but lets them bundle it for him? God, I could go on forever. I have seen a lot of elections, but even Joe Lieberman doesn't lie like Obama does. Vaporous is a kind word to describe BO.

[Raine]

165. You honestly think the media won't take

down the wife of a president who was impeached because of a blow-job??? The media has been drooling at the idea of taking down another Clinton and don't think they won't do it *if* Hillary gets the nomination. Hillary=nomination=President MacCain plus reTHUG control of congress. x(

[MagsDem]

178. I think he had a 68% approval rating during the BJ hearings

But the media has commanded that you hate her, and you rush to obey. Sheeple.

[Raine]

190. Thanks...

for following your "leader" and using mockery when I actually asked you a question...that's typical.

Congrats...you've just been added to my list of ignored. x( :thumbsdown:

[MagsDem]

200. I answered your question....

Nobody gave a good god damn about Clinton's BJ. And he is still consistently rated by the public as one of the best presidents of our time. I'm sorry if those facts don't jibe with the fantasy land that Obama supporters live in.

And let me make this perfectly clear. I do not care if every Obama cultist on this forum puts me on ignore. You are all too far gone to have any sense talked into you, and I am well aware of that. You are not the ones I have been trying to reach. And if you'd like to make it easier for me to reach those who haven't drunk the poison kool aid, I am all for it.

[CyberPieHole]

167. Amen to that!

:kick: and rec

[FlyingSquirrel]

174. I actually have been worried about the same thing.

Namely that the media is now ready to tear down that which they have built up. Absolutely cold-blooded, they are. Play time's over.

[MagsDem]

187. I know some of them

And I can promise you that is exactly what is going to happen. Years ago I posted here that Andrea Mitchell had told people in confidence, back in Feb 2002, that Bush planned a war with Iraq that he would roll out in August. As we all know, he rolled it out in Sept. But of course they spent the next 6 months pretending they were as surprised as everyone else.

You know what was really funny? When I posted it (old screen name I had to change), people went ballistic. OMG, alert the media!!!! K&R, we must tell everyone!!! Seriesly!!!111 Nobody wondered why the Downing Street memo was absolutely ho hum to the media. That was why.

Yeah, like who was I going to tell that wasn't complicit in it happening? Sorry, but people are fucking stupid. And the media knows it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

189. So true. Nothin else to say.

[AtomicKitten]

195. Obama is bulletproof.

[MagsDem]

206. Sorry, but you are living in a dream world

[AtomicKitten]

210. Nah, I've just been watching it all unfold.

Next time best bring kryptonite.

:P

[MagsDem]

214. Like most people, you assume I love HRC

Except I don't. I've said it about a 1000 times, but facts don't figure into things for a cultist. BO is vapor. Pure vapor. He doesn't have a SINGLE orginial proposal to his name that people haven't heard before, and he is completely unelectable once that gets exposed. And you are living in la la land if you don't think McCain is fixing to make it his lifetime work to expose that BO is nothing but a bunch of platitudes. Once, of course, he is done reminding people that BO is a scary liberal black from the north, with Hussien for a middle name that has muslim roots in his background.

No crying when he gets his ass kicked in the GE, okay? Take responsibility for the loss and don't blame it on other people. We are choosing to lose here.

[AtomicKitten]

218. No, you've straightened that point out before, but since I never mentioned HRC

is this one of those trying to pick a faux argument thingies that Clinton is doing? It's probably best to have an actual bridge to these rants that you seem very anxious to give and do on just about everything you post.

There is a reason Obama is doing as well as he is and that reason is many, many people don't agree with your rather scorched earth assessment of subject matter you clearly aren't familiar with, but I also believe in free speech, so you get on with your bad self.

[akbacchus_BC]

217. He not bullet proof hon. He just has to stand strong but am pretty

sure he will win the nomination. Kudos to Senator Obama. The world wants change and he is giving that to all of us who are not in the US. Mind you, if Senator Clinton gets the nod, I'd be ok with that but it will be the same old same old!

[AtomicKitten]

222. Hey, it's hyperbole for entertainment!

In addition to his polling consistently better and sometimes much better than his opponent against McCain, as it turns out, Barack Obama is a masterful tactical strategist. He has run his campaign brilliantly.

[akbacchus_BC]

196. I beg to differ, the media did not build him up, he media claimed

that Senator Hilary Clinton was the crowned one, and just because it did not go her way, you piling on Obama. Makes me wonder if the likes of you wants a democrat back in the white house. This is very pathetic!

[MagsDem]

207. We'll see

[akbacchus_BC]

213. No, you will see when Senator Obama gets the nomination. Then what

You goona vote for McCain!!

[MagsDem]

215. No, I'm just not gonna vote in the presidential election

I have never voted for a rethug in my life, and not going to start now simply because our moronic base has no sense. Hell will freeze over before I vote for a guy that lies like BO does, even if he did have experience, which he doesn't. That ain't gonna make me a rethug. But I will be damned if I am going to help our party's Bush get elected. The guy is a complete fraud. Putting a D after his name doesn't make him a democrat to me. Real democrats don't claim they don't take PAC money when they have a PAC themselves. Real democrats don't complain about other candidates taking money from lobbyists when they have lobbyists bundling millions of dollars for them.

Your guy is a fraud in addition to being unelectable.

[SammyWinstonJack]

258. !!!

:thumbsup: Your guy is a fraud in addition to being unelectable. And a World class LIAR!

[Steely_Dan]

199. I completely agree with you.

We could have nominated a shoe-in...But, nooooo. Now, we are going to fight battles that we didn't need to fight. Thanks for making it a horse race, America.

-P

[MagsDem]

209. And they will blame everyone but themselves when we lose

It will be Diebold's fault or the media's fault. No it will be the sheeple's fault for listening to the media yet again. They haven't figured out yet that the media is owned, bought, and paid for by the rethugs.

[readmoreoften]

216. Imagine how much worse it will be if the media DOESN'T vet him and he wins...

Can you imagine a smiling Obama superstar cruising to victory, never once vetted in the media? I can. And I also know what that means. All of a sudden we'll see Obama hanging out with Bloomberg and Murdoch and Lieberman and the Neocons and the CFR gang, and a whole new crop of Friedmanite economists. And he'll go on the Tonight Show. And he'll be the most popular president of all time. And we'll pull out of Iraq and ease into Pakistan. He'll handle a terrorist attack with virtuosity--and his polls will go into the 90% and we'll "get tough" with Iran. Education and social security will be privatized. Homos will be where they are now--nowhere--but still on the table for never-ending abuse. He'll get a SCOTUS appointee and everyone will be shocked when he chooses someone from the Federalist Society--or maybe someone a touch more moderate than that.

Then in year 7 there will be a scandal and everyone will be tired of him. Then it'll be the Republicans turn again.

[Binka]

227. Jesus Hyperbole Much?

What a fucking crock. BTW hanging with Murdoch seems to be HRC MO. Give it a rest.

[readmoreoften]

241. Hey, Obama Zombie. I wasn't talking to you; but fine, I'll embrace you in a spirit of bipartisanship

Bipartisanship meaning Democrat and Obamacan coming together...

These people are politicians, not fucking fairy princesses, Obamacan. Hate to dash your hopes. Your prince already has some neoconservative support. Not that Clinton doesn't dabble in the right wing--she's a full fledged triangulator. Your guy on the other hand doesn't even stand for anything, so it's impossible for him to triangulate. But, hey, you've got Brand Loyalty--I'll give you that.

Have fun with your store bought president. Maybe a few decades from now we'll really get change--see I do have hope.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042702027_pf.html (Robert Kagan's a major PNAC guy, if you don't know)

[Binka]

287. Oh Jesus More Triangulation Nonsense

You need to grow up. I am not a zombie and you quite honestly are full of shit. I'll have fun with my nominated candidate. What's with this prince and princess nonsense? Watching Enchanted too much? Obama clobbered her tonight. This Obamacan is saying screw you and try to read more often honey.

[BigBearJohn]

244. How funny. I was thinking exactly the same thing as you.

[NDambi]

220. In words of Florida Evans: Damn! Damn! Damn!

The Dems are going to lose, lose, lose, I tell ya...all because of that unelectable black liberal with muslim ethnic background from Chicago, no less..also home of that other black liberal, damn Oprey Winfray..

Lawdy, what we gone do, what we gone do now..the cullerd guy don't stand a chance..he gone get clobbered by tha old white man...

Oooooo, I'm Mad as Hell and I ain't gonna take it no mo'!!

:sarcasm:

[MagsDem]

229. you know, if he wasn't complete vaporware....

I might be persuaded to set my realism aside and actually vote for him. But he's a complete fake, so sorry, I can't do that.

Let me ask you something... if he so against PACs why has he raised millions of dollars for his own PAC, and is currently using it to buy super delegates amoung the congressional reps? And if he is against lobbyist money, why is accepting millions from lobbyists bundling money from business owners (just not from the lobbyists themselves)?

Those are just two of the BS "stances" from Mr Hypocrisy. Answer me those and I will give you two more. We could go on all night.

[NDambi]

235. I might be persuaded to set my realism aside and actually vote for him. But he's a complete fake, so

Good for you.

You have a ton of questions and answers that continually hump Obama's leg...

Now, give me some on Hillary and McCain that puts them in the same "Swiftboat!"

You're at the head of the class...knock it out the park..

[Endangered Specie]

228. waaaahhh waaaaahhh

[MagsDem]

231. We'll see who's crying the loudest when it's President McCain

[Endangered Specie]

281. Well, with so many people here pledging not to vote for the other guy/girl

if they win, they will be to blame for it.

I prefer Obama, but I will fight just as hard for Hillary is shes the nominee. I'll be out canvassing, volunteering and registering even if she makes me sick with her attacks.

[BigBearJohn]

282. DU will have to hire crisis counselors.

[Beacool]

237. Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!

They think that because the Clintons held back, that the RW will be as demure. They have seen nothing yet!!!!! I'm already buying plenty of popcorn, the sparks will soon fly..........

:popcorn:

[cali]

239. Sometimes the most fervent wishes don't come true, dear.

Obama destroyed Hillary's campaign with great efficiency. You're bitter and filled with hate toward him. The Media was only one piece of it. You don't have a crystal ball and hate, anger and jealousy cloud one's perspective. Obama handles attacks quite well. There's no reason to think he won't continue doing so. I know you'd love to see him lose, but he has a good shot at winning. Live with it.

[Guava Jelly]

242. That silly Muzlum negro

He ain't smart enough to whoop the press.
(you forgot to put this :rant: in your op.
That and a white hood..:eyes:)
get a clue Nancy Drew

[LostinVA]

247. You're right -- 100%

[underpants]

249. Give this media bias crap a rest already

Give it a rest. We all know that all her friends in the DC press tried to anoint her months ago but funny thing this Obama thing happened and her press buddies don't know how to talk about a black guy and her campaign exposed itself as being woefully unprepared and horrifically unaware of the climate it operated in.

[DemzRock]

251. underpants:The press liked Hill?? Are you nuts? They've been tearing Hill down for months now! n/t

[underpants]

253. They LOVE McCain (they have cover)

the McCain cover excuse is that he is so accessible and so straight forward.... could someone on the Dem campaigns please tell their candidate to make a trip to the back of the plane at least once everyday???

That being said-Hillary had it wrapped up with a bow on top before it even started. The Press had already created the narrative and all it needed was to ignore Edwards and wait until Obama went away, he didn't. Like I said above the press is so lilywhite and SO scared of being called racist that they have no idea how to deal with Obama (and his well run campaign) so they throw out the "cult" crap. As far as with Hillary she is still getting a break in coverage because they simply CLEARLY don't know what the narrative is supposed to be.

They travel a lot but they must not talk to anyone because the thing here isn't really Obama it is just that he ISN'T DC and the Clintons are clearly a part of DC.

[DemzRock]

250. So true. n/t

[onenote]

252. I assume you're referring to McCain

After all, they built him up, so I guess they'll be taking him down too.

[goldcanyonaz]

254. So, the Republicans won't be lining up to vote for Obama come November?

:rofl:

Say it isn't so.

[Alter Ego]

255. You're the most angry, bitter person I've ever seen.

Are you fucking serious? Calling us idiots for choosing a guy named "Barack Hussein Obama"? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the morons who don't vote for him based solely on his name would never in a million years vote for him even if his name were Bob Smith?

Also, if you don't believe that Dems have "a brain in their heads", then leave the party. Obviously you don't like us enough to stay.

[yellowcanine]

257. So part of your argument is that we reject Obama because of his name and his father's religion

because Republican bigots might use those against him. Nothing like taking the low road.

[Yellow Horse]

260. Well It'll be Good for the Health Care Industry (Insurers and For-Profit)

[QC]

261. But...but...but...he's friends with OPRAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!! n/t

[bridgit]

262. It's their MO: make the news & break the news, scoop the news & crap it out...

American journalism is either broken or bought retail...and they're good with that. They don't sell news to people, they sell people to advertisers. And they've been hearing a growing chorus as to how easy they've been on Obama since the beginning. And they have. It's fun & easy to beat up on the Clinton's. Just view the threads here in this forum. Obama? Please. Maybe we need to know, to see how Obama would handle several weeks on end of bad press. Still...

When people get hip to manipulated news; ad sales may be effected to the detriment. Can't have that, so then they change like chameleons. But that's not news. That's a function of product placement. And so the snake eats it's tail. The noble ant on a Mobius Strip

[thetaoofterri]

265. I completely agree with you.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

270. yes they are....a cruel and very effective cat and mouse game the Corporate media plays

[nlb]

272. garbage

Hillary hasn't lost yet, but she most probably will if she and her supporters keep showing signs of desperation . there are indeed avenues of attack open agains BO but NOT the ones you named. If those are the tactics McCain choses, he'll go down.

[ProSense]

278. Obama will beat Hillary and will crush McCain. Sorry to disappoint you.

If you haven't noticed, McCain is winning the Repub nomination by default. His support is lame, he has trouble being consistent, he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years, his finances are shady, he lied in his statement rebutting the NYT story on his lobbyist connection (and there is a deposition to prove it). If you fear McCain that much, it's no wonder you support Hillary, who is running one of the worst campaigns ever!


If she can't beat Obama, how is she going to beat McCain?

As Democratic Race Tightens, Senator Clinton’s Job Approval Dips in Home State

[sendero]

284. Bullshit..

.... the media will do their damndest no matter who the candidate is.

But it's not going to work this time, because in addition to the disaster in Iraq there will be a disastrous economy and people are going to be pissed.

The turnout in the Dem primaries is proof of a simple fact that no amount of MSM bullshit can overturn, people are SICK of Republicans.

[Piperay]

285. Bitter, much.

You sound like you are so hoping for MacCain to win just cause you blame Obama for beating Hillary. The name of the game is to win, don't be so bitter cause Hillary is beaten, it wasn't her divine right to the nomination.

[NanceGreggs]

286. Of all the vile and disgusting OPs on this site ...

... over the past few months, this one, without question, is the MOST vile and disgusting - and that's really saying something.

"We nominate an inexperienced black "liberal" candidate from Chicago, with Hussien for a middle name, and a muslim ethic background. Brilliant. Just brilliant."

In other words, when it comes to being elected to office, Democrats of colour, those from certain American cities, those who have a Muslim-sounding middle name need not apply. The 'Big Tent' is only meant to mean that we embrace white candidates with Christian-sounding middle names - the 'others' who don't fit that category are free to join our ranks, contribute their money, volunteer their time - but don't DARE expect that you can run for office on our ticket.

And by the way, there is no such thing as a Muslim ethic (and I'm going to assume you meant 'ethnic') background - any more than Catholicism or Anglicanism has any connection to one's ethnicity.

You've gone to great lengths on this thread to respond to people by telling them they are naive if they don't understand your obviously bigoted opinions. Just how naive are you, when you say things like, "Hillary and Bill have had everything in the world thrown at them -- there is nothing left to say that isn't old news and won't stink of desperation"?

Are you honestly naive enough to think that were Hillary the nominee, the GOP would just shake their heads and walk away, saying, "We've already gone after this chick and her husband - there's nothing left to say? They'll say plenty - whether it's Hillary OR Obama - and it won't sound like "old news that stinks of desperation" to Republican voters. They will dredge up every piece of BS ever said about the Clintons, and it will sound like an all-important reminder that these people can't be trusted.

"There are so many avenues for attack open there it is almost as if we are begging for it." Good call - because we all know that there are absolutely NO avenues for attack open if Hillary were the nominee. We all know that there is NOTHING about her that could be used as a weapon against her.

Of course, there is that pesky lil' problem that she's a woman - and if you think that the I'll-NEVER-vote-for-a-woman-for-president crowd aren't as ignorantly adamant as the I'll-NEVER-vote-for-a-black-man -for-president bigots, you're really living in the Never-Neverland you have accused others here of residing in.

Throughout the years I have spent on this website, I have heard the cry over and over that Democrats are spineless because they allow the GOP to dictate the agenda, to set the rules of engagement - and yet here you are promoting the idea that we should nominate our candidates based on what they want, what they believe, what they will find palatable.

I, for one - and I KNOW I'm not alone in this - say FUCK the Constitution-shredding, corrupt beyond all imagining, greedy beyond all comprehension Republicans, along with the horse's ass of a 'president' they rode in on. I want ACTION from my fellow party members, NOT REACTION to what the GOP thinks, does, or stands for.

"No one can tell me, after this primary election, that Dems have a brain in their heads."

The utter arrogance of that statement is mind-boggling; what you're REALLY saying is that anyone who doesn't agree with your choice of candidate is completely mindless - because who could possibly disagree with the all-knowing, all-seeing, all-omnipotent YOU? Perhaps we should suspend voting altogether, and simply defer to YOUR better judgment?

After reading this post, as well as other equally ridiculous OPs of yours, it would seem readily apparent that there are "Dems" who don't have a brain in their heads - and if the shoe fits (which it obviously does), YOU might just want to consider brainlessly wearing it.

As always, when I read posts like this piece of absolute garbage, I have to remind myself that Hillary Clinton is a much better person than so-called supporters like you tend to be.

[Neshanic]

289. I agree with everything, but we do not deserve it. It will happen, but we do not deserve it.

The kids need run free after bedtime.

When we are not out of Iraq, and have McCain talking draft, then the kids will get it. Too late though.