In concrete terms, exactly what does "reaching out to Republicans" entail?

[QC]

Presumably they do not already agree with us on everything, or they would be Democrats, so compromise would be involved in achieving unity with them. In concrete terms, what does that compromise involve?

Privatizing Social Security? After all, Republicans want that really, really bad. They have yearned to destroy Social Security for seven decades now. Perhaps we could just partially privatize it. That way, only half the nation's retirement savings would be "invested" in the likes of Countrywide.

How about vouchers for private schools? Many Republicans want this, and some point to moral reasons: they want their children educated in the context of their faith. Of course, traditional Democratic constituencies, like educators, would object, and the poorest schools would lose funding, but we would win considerable Republican support by attacking "government schools."

Saying goodbye to equality for LGBT Americans? This is a big part of the GOP agenda, and even here at DU there are those who declare that "genital politics" has cost us power. How do we compromise this one? Maybe we could just make lipstick lesbians full citizens, since most straight white men think they are hot.

The Iraq War? Perhaps we could just stay there for fifty years instead of a hundred. That seems a reasonable compromise.

And so on. Enough of this fluffy bunny talk of "embracing" and "reaching out." I want to know, and I think Democrats have the right to know, exactly what--and who--will be sacrificed for the sake of all that unity.

[C_U_L8R]

1. Reaching under the stall?

[QC]

2. LOL! That's one idea. n/t

[Rosemary2205]

45. LOL

:)

[rug]

3. Unless it's to grab them by the throat, I don't know.

[goldcanyonaz]

4. I'm with you. What's up with all this make nice shit? They need to be beat down, and hard.

[QC]

41. Same here. I'm not interested in cuddling up with these people. n/t

[samplegirl]

5. Here's some real reaching...

Here is a list of senators who voted for immunity for teleco.

Bayh (D-IN)
Carper (D-DE)
Conrad (D-ND)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Webb (D-VA)
Clinton (D-NY) {not voting helps the majority} these people should be ashamed.

[Yurovsky]

14. Wow, some of those names are really surprising ...

especially Webb, Rockefeller, Salazar, & Stabenow. I obviously expect Lieberman to continue to march in lockstep with his GOP pals, but some of these Senators' seats aren't exactly endangered by the GOP, which tells me they actually AGREE with the police state tactics of Chimpy & Evil Dick.

More than surprising, it's depressing.

[samplegirl]

17. This is the reason we lose

as democrats......Republicans would never cross party lines.
Not now not ever!

[goldcanyonaz]

43. Not voting helps the majority, like Obama sitting out Kyl-Leiberman.

[skipos]

6. What did Reagan sacrifice by reaching out to Democrats?

How was he able to have two massive election victories? Did he throw conservatives under the bus to do it?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. LMAO there ya go again! ...channeling Raygun....WTF? is wrong with you people?!?

makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up everytime you Obama people defend rethuglicans here....

if you people embrace these bastards and throw your fellow Democratic sisters and brothers under the Obama Reagan chaneling bus any more here on DU....I swear by the gods I will be able to vote for Obama in Nov

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. There you go channeling Joe McCarthy again

The mere mention of Reagan causes you people to lose control of your emotions. Ya know, it's possible to admire the political instincts of a person without embracing their entire philosphy.

[lastliberalintexas]

25. No, it isn't

I'm sorry, but it's absolutely impossible to admire anything about Reagan. The man was a race-baiting, Commie-baiting, union busting bastard who played to the lowest common denominator. That's how he won elections, and if you (and presumably other Obama supporters) can find something- anything- to admire in that, then maybe our party really does deserve what it's getting.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. Thanks for sharing, Senator McCarthy. nt

[lastliberalintexas]

36. I'm channeling McCarthy because I refuse to compliment Reagan?

How the hell does McCarthy even enter into this discussion? God this place makes my head hurt sometimes.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaybeat]

10. Reagan lied to scare Dem politicians into giving in to him

He convinced Joe-six pack America that blacks, women, gays, unions and, worst of all, Liberals were out to get him. These were the so-called "Reagan Democrats." He also convinced them that the only way to keep the Commies from nuking us "back to the stone age" was to increase our defense spending a gazillion times and cut spending on anything that actually helped people.

Dem politicians were deer caught in the headlights. They threw their own principles under the bus to keep their seats.

And, BTW, when DID Reagan "reach out to Democrats"? All I remember is him telling them to STFU.

[QC]

Good post. Reagan made prejudice and fear the centerpiece of his politics.

Though he did overlay it with a veneer of hopeful, fluffy bunny rhetoric.

[lastliberalintexas]

13. I am really starting to believe that so many

of the Obama supporters who use the Reagan Democrats rhetoric are too young to remember exactly what issues Reagan used to pull those "Dems" to his side. Beginning his campaign in Oxford, MS and discussing states rights in his stump should be a clue to those people, but I guess not.

You did a great job of reminding people of the reasons the Reagan "Dems" suppported him.

[skipos]

21. So we agree that Reagan didn't throw conservatives under the bus

in order to get the votes of Dems and have mammoth victories.

If a Republican can win big without abandoning conservatives, then a Democrat can win big without abandoning progressives. Talking about "unity" and "reaching out," which ALL of the candidates have done, doesn't mean you have to sell out your party.

[lastliberalintexas]

23. Reagan didn't fucking talk about unity

Reagan played to people's prejudices in order to get their votes. He was the ultimate pandering politician who used white, blue collar worker's fears, prejudices and biases in order to get their votes and then stab them in the back with actual policy.

Reagan didn't talk about unity or reaching out to the other side or working together and compromise. Reagan was an evil mf who was an unabashed reactionary conservative, racist, sexist Commie baiter and appealed to the baser instincts of humans. THAT is how he got their votes- not by asking them to sing Kumbaya.

Damn it's bad when even Dems don't accurately remember the fucking Reagan years.

[skipos]

26. McCain and Huckabee fucking talk about fucking unity

are you fucking telling me that they are fucking going to fucking sellout fucking conservatives? Fuck no they aren't.

It's bad when Dems don't accurately pay attention to what Republicans are actually saying. Go to a McCain rally, especially one with Lieberman, to hear all the unity talk. You may think that it means McCain is going to throw conservatives under the bus, I don't.

[lastliberalintexas]

28. I thought we were discussing Reagan?

McCain and Huckabee might be discussing unity, I don't really care. I responded to your thread in which you and others have argued that Obama can pull a Reagan and win the votes of repubs without selling out to them. That is possible, but NOT by doing what Reagan did.


Obama's rhetoric scares people like me because of how spineless Dems have been over the last 20 years. We have a good majority in the House and a working majority in the Senate, yet we can't get anything more than a minimum wage increase phased in over the next several years? It's a good start on one issue, but damn I'm tired of the baby steps. Republicans don't take baby stapes, they cram the policy down our throats after boasting they would do it. If your guy wants to take any lesson from the republicans, THAT would be the one.

[Straight Shooter]

30. He didn't "reach out." He lied to them and manipulated them and then fulfilled the GOP agenda.

He won the first time by being "Mr. Sunny Optimism" and having george h.w. bush helping him to orchestrate the disastrous Iran-Contra affair, and the second time he won because ... I really can't remember why.

"Our friends in the other party will never forgive us for our success, and are doing everything in their power to rewrite history. Listening to the liberals, you'd think that the 1980's were the worst period since the Great Depression, filled with suffering and despair. I don't know about you, but I'm getting awfully tired of the whining voices from the White House these days. They're claiming there was a decade of greed and neglect, but you and I know better than that. We were there."

http://reagan2020.us/record/

These are the people Obama wants to "reach out" to, the ones who think liberals are "whiners." Incidentally, the Iran-Contra Affair spanned 1983-1988. Reagan thinks that was peachy-keen, having nothing to do with greed or neglect.

[zabet]

7. Hmmm...every time this phrase comes up,

Libermann comes to mind. His 'reaching
across the aisle' made a DINO out of him.
Something about playing with shit that will
make you end up stinking too.
We cannot work with the Repubs, this has
been quite evident when Dems hold a majority
and still cannot get shit accomplished.

[OHdem10]

8. Could it (as has been the case for years) appeasing the GOP.

Listen to what the candidates say in their policies.

Health Care Insurance: Obama -- No Mandates. McCain, Boehner and
House Republicans , McConnell and Senate Republicans--No Mandates
on Health Care Insurance No Mandates on HC Insurance.

Coincidental or philosophical similaries.

Just and observation. Everyone would be wise to look deeper than
the Hype.

[Bad Thoughts]

11. "Dignified Climbdown"

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/17/2729/99967

I have a theory as to why Barack Obama appeals to a significant smattering of Republicans: he provides what we'd call "a dignified climbdown."

I'm a student of nonviolence, and Gandhi and Dr. King always said that in a struggle with an oppressor, the most important thing is to separate the oppressor from their oppression - oppose the behavior, not the person - and try to find a way for the oppressor to "cimb down" from their perch and see the light but with their dignity fully intact.

Obama's rhetoric of hope and optimism helps almost any listener "feel good" about being an American again. Even the Republicans who voted for Bush in 2004 know deep in their gut that something is very, very wrong with the U.S. right now. They might even be in favor of policies like "kill all the terrorists," but somehow, somewhere, they know that America's on the wrong track.

Obama's doing a great job of telling us what's wrong about Bush's presidency - which appeals to the left. He's also offering an emotionally powerful idea of hope and cooperation - which appeals to everyone, including Republicans.

That's why some folks who might not agree with all of Obama's fairly standard middle to middle left Democratic policies like him. Because they hear rhetoric about being a "good American" and they're like "yeah, that's me, I want to get on board the hope train too! Don't let it leave without me!"

[Yurovsky]

12. Well, the current economic crisis has hit them too ...

it's not just blue collar jobs that have been shipped overseas. A lot of jobs in the service sector have been eliminated, and that, combined with a lot of middle-class Republicans losing their homes due to the collapse of the housing/mortgage industries, will cause a signficant number of voters to cross over. Not everyone is as informed or as engaged as the average DU poster, and a lot of these people are finally coming to the realization that the GOP's economic plans are kicking them right in the teeth. Previously many of these folks believed that "trickle-down" really worked, and that everybody, not just corporate CEOs, would thrive under Reaganomics & the tax giveaways of Chimpy & Co.

These are people that are willing to try something new, and see if that doesn't change their lives for the better. That's what "reaching out" means to me. I liken it to being in a life raft and extending a hand to someone in the water, and I can't see the harm in that.

[baldguy]

15. Those aren't Republican issues - they're neocon issues.

Reaching out to Republicans just involves getting Republicans to embrace traditional Republican values: individual responsibility hand in hand with individual liberty, civil rights for everyone and making govt at all levels subordinate to the will of the people.

You've got to remember that while the current Republican Party leadership is made up almost exclusively of unrepentant fascists, the rank & file are still loyal - if misinformed - Americans.

[lastliberalintexas]

16. For me, Obama and Clinton are 2 sides of the same coin

So I guess Clinton supporters should take my post here with a grain of salt. I don't see either of them getting us out of Iraq very quickly, and I fear some sort of manipulation which pulls us into Iran as well.

From what I've gathered from Obama's website, speeches and votes, I believe that he sells us out on education and NCLB is left in full effect. I could also see him getting behind vouchers, since I've read/heard he fully supports charter schools. And I see even less healthcare reform under him than Clinton.

I don't think either of them sells us out on SS, wage or tax issues.


Personally, the most troubling aspect of Obama's campaign for me is his rhetoric. I have an incredible problem getting behind someone who so rarely speaks to women's issues but who so easily spouts off about family values and religion. I already hear enough of that crap living in SE Texas, I don't need my president to be a preacher too.

[msongs]

19. using scriptures to deny equality, like Obama does? nt

[gravity]

22. It means not instigating war over wedge issues

and convincing republicans that the democrats are looking out for their best interest, like the economy, health care, the environment, and international diplomacy. Reaching out refers to the voters, and the politicians who are willing to compromise.

This isn't about taking up republican positions like the DLC. It is about taking control of the political discourse in this country, and setting the agenda for America for a change.

[Rosemary2205]

46. Absolutely. Thanks for puttng it better than I could.

:)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Gloves.

[MadHound]

29. It is apparent that you've never actually dealt with conservatives on a regular basis

I have. I'm a very liberal person who moved out to a very red rural area. My neighbors are all conservative, yet I've been able to have a great relationship with them because I don't demonize them, or make them out to be that dreaded other.

And you know what, we get along just fine. We shoot the shit on politics, and once you get talking to them you start to realize that hey, they're more liberal, more open to change than places like DU make them out to be. They want out of Iraq just as much as we do, they're not all RW fundies, they think that, much like I do, our government is corrupt and broken. Better yet, if you approach them as a neighbor and a friend, you can get them to listen and change their minds. Why the hell do you think that '06 was such a huge power shift for the Dems. Oh, yeah, people like me getting their neighbors to vote for a change.

We should be reaching out to 'Pugs and conservatives. The corporations and power elites in this country have always played these divisive games along race, religion, politics, etc. They realize, even if you don't, that ordinary, everyday people have more in common with each other than with our oppressors. Their nightmare scenario is that if we the people banded together against them and took our government and society back into our hands. So they stir the shit, stir the shit, and people like you fall for it.

Wake up pal and smell the corruption. If we're going to take our government out of corporate and elite hands, we're going to need the help of everybody, right, left and center. The sooner you stop playing these partisan games the sooner we can get this country on the right track.

[Straight Shooter]

31. Are you and your neighbors powerful politicians?

Didn't think so.

I get along with Republicans very well, also, but if you think I'd ever let them dictate the policies of this country, you're sadly mistaken. The higher up the economic food chain they live, the more voracious they are in consuming liberal policies and spitting them out. And every single one of them has that mean-spirited sense of humor towards Democrats which the rat bastard Reagan first used as a weapon against anything that threatened to seriously encroach on the conservative agenda.

Republicans aren't stupid. They've been using code words since Reagan and Newt. They know exactly what Obama is telling them.

[MadHound]

32. You know what ass u me means

Thought so.

You don't know who I am, what I've done. You don't know know who I know, who I have access to(and after thirty five years in politics, I have lots of contacts and lots of access). You don't know who my neighbors are, what they do, whether or not they've held office(actually a couple have). You are ass u me-ing.

You are also engaging in the stereotypical and divisive thinking that is keeping all of us from getting our government back from corporate America. I'm not stating that I want 'Pugs running the show, what I'm saying is that we all, Dems 'Pugs, Greens, Independents, what have you, need to join together to take our country back from corporate America.

But hey, if you want to continue to fall for the shit stirring, divisive tactics that the power elites are using to keep us all from that objective, go for it. Just don't expect this country to get any better, quite the opposite, it will get worse.

[Straight Shooter]

34. Love you, too.

You just keep dancing down the yellow brick road, believing that the great Ozama will take care of everything.

[MadHound]

35. LOLOLOLOLOLOL! So that's where you're coming from!

You think that I'm an Obama supporter. LOLOLOLOL! Again, remember ass u me.

I'm not what you would call an Obama supporter, except perhaps by default. I originally supported Kucinich, and am waaaay left of both Obama and Clinton. Sadly, Kucinich and all the rest dropped out. I fully believe in holding our politicians accountable for their actions, so I couldn't vote for Hillary, IWR and all that. That left me, by default, voting for Obama in the primary, and again, by default, will be voting for him in the general. But support him? Ehn, not so much. Both he and Hillary are corporate controlled candidates whose positions are within about five degrees of each other. Neither one will bring about real change in our country, which is what we desperately need.

But geez, since I'm not a partisan, I wander into these conversations not know what the Hillary Obama undercurrents are, and thus folks like yourself assume I'm some sort of partisan. I'm not, hope that clears things up.

[Straight Shooter]

40. Not a supporter? Fine. Then you're playing the devil's advocate.

BTW, "ass u me" is so high school, eh?

[lastliberalintexas]

33. MO repubs must be very different from TX repubs

I even live in a Dem area of this state (not liberal by any means, but Dem), and I must say that the repubs I know are every bit as vile as elected repubs when it comes to political issues. They actually support things like national sales taxes, eliminating welfare, blowing up the Middle East and imposing Christian ideology/prayer on public life. Um, that's kind of why they vote republican. :shrug:


I have a number of republican friends who are very dear to me, but I can't say I'd be willing to find common ground on political issues with most of them. :)

[gravity]

37. I have the same experiences with my republican friends.

One thing I do notice, is that when you remove the politics of an issue, you actually can agree on a lot of things. It's all about framing the issues in the right way.

It's the arguments about whose side is right on the issue that gets no where. Partisan bickering is what is tearing this country apart, and prevents us from accomplishing anything important.

One thing you have to do is recognize the concerns of republicans, which actually have some validity to it. One example with universal health care is long lines and being denied procedures, which I think is a big exaggeration, but what can you do? If you say that we should find a way to implement a universal health care system so that everyone is covered, while still retaining the strengths of our current system (yes, our system has some advantages over other countries) then you can actually agree and get shit done in the government.

This concept of compromise is something that our country has needed for such a long time. I wish more of my fellow Dems would recognize it

[QC]

42. Better not give up the day job for that psychic gig.

I have spent my entire life in conservative areas--Alabama, Mississippi, rural Pennsylvania, and the Florida Panhandle are not exactly hotbeds of liberalism. I have never lived around anything but conservatives, so I am not sufficiently deluded to think that they will abandon all of their convictions if we just make nice with them.

And it would be helpful if you would at least attempt to address the substance of the post: what, in specific, concrete terms, should we do to "reach out" to the Republicans? What compromises do we need to make? What do we give up in order to get their support?

[Traps]

38. Cognitive dissonance

is what you get when you try and reach out too far.

The anxiety born of compromising your beliefs.

Like our likely lads down here :

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/02/24/cognitive-dissonance-of-chancellor-house/

[loyalsister]

39. Listening for one thing

If you read the Audacity of Hope I noticed that one of the things Obama pointed out that he thought was a problem was the lack of debate in congress. He wrote that he was disappointed to discover the Senate chamber mostly empty much of the time. Thus, bills are not vetted there is not enough discussion. The legislators know how they will vote without reading the Bill because of lobbyist influence.
If that were removed and more discussion would be required. Also operate on the assumption that at some point you will agree thus, no permanent enemies.
Just as when Shirley Chisholm visited George Wallace in the hospital and he eventually helped her round up southern Democrats for a minimum wage for domestic workers bill.

[dailykoff]

44. It means winning in November

for one thing. He'll need swing voters and GOP voters. It means winning primaries for another.

[Critters2]

47. So, we should say anything just to get votes?

Or will he govern in ways they like afterwards? I'd like to elect someone with a spine.

[QC]

48. It's just as I figured--nobody will touch it.

A few people argue that we don't have to give the Republicans anything to get their support, and the rest ignore the question entirely.

No one will step up and say specifically what compromises we should make with Republicans.

This unity talk is all fantasy, at best.