Obama lied about serving out his term in the Senate. What else is he lying about?

[jlake]

Obama "I promise to serve out my 6 year term"
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080220/EDITORIAL01/752069338/1013/EDITORIAL&template=nextpage

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

5. Welcome to DU. Please read the rules before posting.

:eyes:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

That he's not a Muslim Manchurean candidate who refuses to say the Pledge

And will take his oath of office on a Koran. While eating gay kittens.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

[jlake]

4. He can't eat the gay kittens.... they are at an "ex gay" treatment camp being straightened out.

What a ridiculous accusation!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. BUT THEN BARACK HUSSEIN OSAMA WILL EATZ TEH KITTEHS!!!11!!ELEVEN

[Dr. Strange]

59. Obama lied when he told me thecatburgler would stop using all caps.

My world is falling apart.

On the bright side, we're having grilled cheese sandwiches for dinner tonight. So it hasn't been a total bust of a day.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. NO ONE CAN MAKE ME STOP ALL CAPS!!1!1 NOT EVEN BARAK HUSSEIN OSAMA!!1!!ONE

I LOVE GRILLED CHEESE TOO!!1! ARE YOU HAVING TOMATO SOUP WITH IT??!!1??

[Dr. Strange]

61. I'm not fond of tomato soup.

However, my wife is, so she is having some. Besides, we have to eat it up now, since it will be outlawed once Obama becomes president. He promised not to outlaw tomato soup, but he was probably lying about that too.

[scheming daemons]

2. He was lying about having Hillary on his "short list" for VP.... she's off the list now.

;-)

[MethuenProgressive]

3. He's lying about Clinton's health care plan, and lied about the Clintons being racists

But DUbamas don't care.

[NYCGirl]

7. Do you have a link where Obama called the Clintons "racists"? Please post. NT

[OzarkDem]

91. Its very disturbing

People who are so tired of Bush's lies for the last 7 years are so ready to ignore the same thing in the Dem candidate they support.

[Occam Bandage]

99. He called the Clintons racists? When? Using what words?

[cd3dem]

107. He will do anything to get elected!

* praise the Reagan years, trash the Clinton years
* no no no, I do not know Rezco
* race card BS
* sexism "the claws come out"
* smug and looking his nose down on Hillary

[Maribelle]

8. He lied about his 'judgment' making him qualified to be Commander-In-Chief

He has manifested poor judgment too many times. One being his current backing off of his prior Cuban pomp. The republicans will have a field day with this flip flopping, in one of many.

[Maribelle]

9. He lied about the words he used on October 26, 2002

pretending he said them October 2, 2002

[jillan]

10. He is lying about his support of Nafta.

He not only supported it's expansion, he voted against providing safeguards to
the workers of countries that we trade with.

[chascarrillo]

11. Washington Times? I always wondered where you got your news.

[PBS Poll-435]

13. Oh. Dear. God.

Not the "Libril/Fare & Balinced" (sic) arguement again. Seriously...did he say it or not? Did he say that he would serve out his term and not run in 2008 or not?

[ecdab]

93. You may want to check out the actual MTP transcript

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10909406/

The Washington Times certainly left all the nuance that Obama expressed to Russert on the cutting room floor in order to amp up their case that Obama should compete with McCain on a level financial playing field.

And as for the Obama quote that the OP uses "I promise to..." - no Obama didn't say that. That was pure fiction created by the OP and put into quotes and attributed to Obama.

[PBS Poll-435]

98. You might want to read it

MR. RUSSERT: So you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?

SEN. OBAMA: I will not.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator, thank you very much for your candor and for joining us and sharing your views.

[ecdab]

101. I did - perhaps you can point out where Obama said

"I promise to serve out my 6 year term" - because it isn't in there. The fact that the OP would put a statement never made in quotes and attribute it to Obama speaks volumes about the honesty of the author - but very little about Obama. That takes balls - to make up a false statement and attribute it to somebody in order to accuse that person of being untruthful. Do you find those kind of tactics to be honest? I don't.

The full transcript reads as follows:

MR. RUSSERT: There’s been enormous speculation about your political future, Senator. The man you succeeded in the Senate, Peter Fitzgerald, a Republican, said this recently. “I think there’s a very good chance that Senator Obama is on the Democratic ticket in 2008 as the vice presidential nominee.” Do you agree?

SEN. OBAMA: No. You know, I can’t speculate on those kinds of things. What I have said is that, you know, I’m not focused on running for higher office, I’m focused on doing the job that the people of Illinois just sent me to do.

MR. RUSSERT: But there seems to be an evolution in your thinking. This is what you told the Chicago Tribune last month: “Have you ruled out running for another office before your term is up?” Obama answer: “It’s not something I anticipate doing.” But when we talked back in November of ‘04 after your election I said, “There’s been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?” Obama: “Absolutely.”

SEN. OBAMA: I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later you get weary and you start looking for new ways of saying things. But my thinking has not changed. (it would appear it did since January 2006 - oh my goodness, how could Obama be so EVIL!)

MR. RUSSERT: So you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?

SEN. OBAMA: I will not.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator, thank you very much for your candor and for joining us and sharing your views.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10909406 /

We find a little bit of nuance that the Washington Times left out (in order to help McCain) and that the OP went even farther with. While Obama did indicate in fairly clear terms that he didn't plan on running for higher office at that time he certainly didn't "promise" anything - and we need to add comments like "It’s not something I anticipate doing", "my thinking has not changed" and "I can’t speculate on those kinds of things" to put his comments in full context. But it sounds so much more like a lie when we leave those parts out and insert the never spoken words "I promise" doesn't it. I would certainly define this thread as being dishonest, at best.

So my question to jlake remains - why make up a quote and why provide a link to a right wing attack piece that edited out all the nuances that Obama actually spoke in the interview as opposed to the actually interview? While the OP has the balls to try such a dirty attack, I doubt the OP has the balls to defend their own dishonesty. Perhaps you would like to defend the OP's dishonesty?

[Zodiak]

122. Thank you for this

Because of the OP's deception, willful ignorance, and willingness to hurl invectives at fellow DUers in the service to that deception, I am putting him on ignore.

[ecdab]

123. It was my pleasure

I don't know if I'm dealing with people that just don't understand what quotation marks means or if I'm dealing with a pathological liar here. The fact that jlake was willing to link this opinion piece to a very deceptive Washington Times piece that was trying to use that deception as a means of helping the GOP win the election makes me believe the later of the two to be more likely. The fact that anybody would come to this thread and support the author of this piece is very sad.

[PBS Poll-435]

144. Unbelievable

It seems Obama can nuance himself out of anything!

[ecdab]

146. This thread started with the poster making up a quote,

attributing it to Obama, and then calling him a liar for the quote that he made up.

I'm sorry that Obama's statement isn't as black and white as some wish it were and that reading the full transcript of his conversation with Russert paints a more nuanced picture than the edited version of it presented by the Washington Times that the OP choose to link this thread to. However, we do have a good example of black and white dishonesty from the poster of this thread when they made up a quote. If that sort of dishonesty actually bothered you I would think you might direct some of your outrage in the direction of the OP - but that clearly isn't happening. Is there a need for anybody to wonder why that is?

[LTR]

12. I seem to recall Bill Clinton reneging on his pledge as Arkansas governor

He vowed to serve out his term, but wound up running for president in '92.

[jillan]

14. Not a good one for you to use - Obama said the same thing.

that he was going to wait to run.

[thevoiceofreason]

24. Didn't Hillary say the same thing to New Yorkers in 2006?

[tritsofme]

52. She refused to make such a pledge in 2006.

However she made good on her word from the 2000 campaign.

[jlake]

15. Yeah, that's actually in the link I provided.... guess you didn't read it.

[LTR]

19. Unlike you...

I don't normally make it a habit to scour RW newspapers like The Washington Times.

[jlake]

23. Um, it sources a meet the press interview.

[WilliamPitt]

16. Two threads down, one to go.

We can wait.

[jlake]

22. Um, actually I posted all 3 already so you can pop the cork.

[boston bean]

17. He lied in the debate about releasing all of his earmarks. He has not. nt

[democrattotheend]

20. Details?

What hasn't he released.

[XemaSab]

27. Like these?

http://obama.senate.gov/press/070621-obama_announces_3/

[boston bean]

31. NO, what about 2005 & 2006, he has not released those.

[boston bean]

35. those are what they are asking about. nt

[ProSense]

18. Hillary lied about NAFTA and health care today

According to news reports, the Clinton campaign lashed out at the use of the mailer in a conference call with selected reporters, complaining that the mail piece bears a resemblance to the "Harry and Louise" TV spots of 1993 and 1994 (pictured here).

One person on the call emotionally said the Obama mail piece was "outrageous as having Nazis march through Skokie, Illinois." That outburst was quickly disavowed during the call by Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson, who said it is "not a comparison that (the campaign) would make." The unpaid health care adviser who made the remark, Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, later apologized. He sent an e-mail to reporters saying, "My passions overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate."

We agree that there is a resemblance between the photo on the Obama mailer and the TV spots. In those ads actors portraying a white, middle-class couple expressed grave concerns about how the Clinton administration's health care plan would affect them. The ads were part of a $17 million campaign by the insurance industry that was widely credited – rightly or wrongly – with contributing to the defeat of the Clinton plan, and the ads still anger many advocates of broader government efforts to provide health insurance. But so far as we can see, Obama's choice of images in his mailer has nothing whatever to do with the accuracy of the claims it makes, or the accuracy of what "Harry and Louise" said, for that matter.

link

Did she mention the "Nazis" comment?

The NYT just reported the source of the misleading claim, Newday, issued a response:

(Reporters from Newsday responded on its Web site last week, but stopped short of a correction. “The word was our characterization of how we best understood her position on NAFTA, based on a review of past stories and her public statements,” they wrote, adding that the Obama mailer made the word ‘boon” appear to be Mrs. Clinton’s statement. “Obama’s use of the citation in this way does strike us as misleading,” they wrote.)

link

Here is what they said

The Democratic campaign has moved in earnest to Ohio, where times are tough and NAFTA has become a dirty word. In an effort to score points, Barack Obama has been dropping a mail-piece (left) that repeats a charge he has made several other times during the campaign -- that "Hillary Clinton believed NAFTA was 'a boon' to the economy."

This attack has attracted a flurry of attention, from Clinton's campaign and some reporters. As it turns out, the primary source is us. Back in Sept. 2006, an abbreviated chart printed on Newsday's Spin Cycle page compared Hillary with her Democratic US Senate primary challenger Jonathan Tasini on a variety of issues. The issues chart included this:

<...>

Obama's use of the citation in this way does strike us as misleading. The quote marks make it look as if Hillary said "boon," not us. It's an example of the kind of slim reeds campaigns use to try to win an office.

That said, we should have been clearer.

link

Here is information about the Peru bill.

Obama never said he was against trade. NAFTA was a horrible bill, which Bill Clinton signed into law and Hillary has defended.

[Tatiana]

21. Wellstone said he wouldn't run for re-election. He lied. Next... n/t

[jlake]

26. Yup. A liar is a liar. Whether you think they are a great liberal or not doesn't make the lie vanish

[Tatiana]

46. So should Wellstone NOT have run for re-election, then? n/t

[Nailzberg]

25. I heard he doesn't plan on serving out his term as POTUS.

He's gonna leave after two years to run for President of the World.

[XemaSab]

30. I don't think Al's going to give up that spot easily

:P

[Arkana]

32. Only if Barack can ride the mighty moonworm!

[jlake]

34. Oh gads, another AG delusional.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jlake]

42. Yeah, Okay. How much have you given to the Democratic Party and our candidates?

I'm guessing not much. And as per Obama - we all know that $$$$ is the most important thing in politics.
So that makes me a better Democrat than you! neener neener!

[XemaSab]

45. In the last year

$120 bucks to the party and $30 to Obama. So $150 all told.

Since I've been unemployed, that's how much I can afford.

How much have YOU given? :shrug:

[jlake]

47. MUCH MORE! Obamabots would verify that that means I am a better person.

Afterall, Hillary is *evil* and a *loser* because she doesn't have as much $$$$ as Obama.

[XemaSab]

48. According to this logic (which seems to be coming from Camp Clinton),

I am evil and a loser because my company laid me off and I've been really poor for the last few months.

Is this what you're trying to say?

Like I said, this logic goes over better at another site.

[Forkboy]

54. You are verifying something about you at least.

[Nailzberg]

41. LMAO n/t

[bunnies]

28. P2BA would be so proud.

:thumbsup:

[jlake]

29. Thanks. He was my favorite DUer for a while.

[bunnies]

38. I dont doubt that for a second! nt

[jlake]

43. And why would you? You know he was one of the brilliant thinkers of our time.

[Forkboy]

55. I believe it.

[jlake]

56. Why don't you go find an electrical socket for your fork.

[Forkboy]

58. Don't quit your day job.

As a standup act you're doomed.

[dansolo]

33. Big deal - Paul Wellstone lied about serving only one term

I voted for Obama for the Senate, and I'm ecstatic that he is close to being our nominee. It's about time that we had a midwestern candidate. I am sick of the dominance of Northeastern and Southern candidates.

[jlake]

36. Yes, and you think it is okay to lie because "Paul Wellstone did it"???

I just think you have flipped your cookie.

[sabbat hunter]

37. hillary

made a similar vow

[jlake]

44. Yes, when she was first electd.....and she did serve her first term.

[sabbat hunter]

100. she also

made a similar vow in 2006 when she ran for re-election. that she "had no plans to run for president"

No sooner than she had won re-election and took the oath of office again, that she began her 2008 presidential run.

[Yurovsky]

40. He lied about being the underdog ...

so what do you suggest we, the people, do to him?

Oh, that's right. Elect him President. That should be relatively easy at this point, seeing as how the SS Clinton is listing 20 degrees to starboard and taking on water, and the GOP has about as much chance to win this fall as I do of winning the Lotto tonight.

[stillcool]

51. I don't think that was a lie..

http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=17&num=16150

HILL TROUNCING RIVALS IN N.H. & OHIO
By IAN BISHOP
January 31, 2007 -- WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton has blown past her primary rivals in the 2008 kickoff state of New Hampshire, and bests the field of White House hopefuls in the swing state of Ohio, new polls show.

Clinton's poll bounce comes on the heels of her announcement that she's running, and her much-publicized first campaign foray into Iowa this past weekend.

She had enjoyed a high-tech campaign rollout, featuring a video announcement of her candidacy and three nights of Web chats with supporters.

"We had a great first week and we hope it is a sign of things to come," campaign spokesman Phil Singer told The Post yesterday.

Clinton has jumped out to a 15-point lead in New Hampshire over her leading rival, Barack Obama, 40 percent to 25 percent, the new Survey USA poll shows. Former Sen. John Edwards stands at 23 percent.

Hillary Clinton: Is the Democratic Nomination All Hers?
She doesn’t have the nomination prize wrapped up just yet, but the paper and ribbon are handy.

By Richard Sammon, Senior Associate Editor, The Kiplinger Letter
October 22, 2007
http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/Hillary_Clinton_Is_Democratic_Nomination_Hers_071022.html

Hillary Clinton’s lead over her Democratic rivals is starting to look formidable. The N.Y. senator is overshadowing the other presidential hopefuls, pulling way ahead in the polls, in fundraising and in organization.

The media are starting to refer to her as the presumptive nominee, a characterization that must make the other candidates feel frustrated.

CLINTON HAS 33-POINT LEAD
By GEOFF EARLE
October 4, 2007 -- WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton has jumped to an astounding 33-point lead over Barack Obama, topping her main rival among every major slice of the electorate and widening a dominating advantage she has held all summer.

Clinton got support from a full majority for the first time in any national survey about the Democratic presidential field. She is backed by 53 percent in the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll.

Obama follows far behind, with 20 percent, and John Edwards has 13 percent.

"I think it's pretty well done, don't you? All over but the voting," said Rep. Tom Petri (D-Wis.), when asked about the poll
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10042007/news/nationalnews/clinton_has_33_point_lead.htm

May 8th, 2007 at 13:15:24

Poll: Clinton pulls ahead of Obama
http://rawstory.com/comments/31343.html
Agence France-Presse

Hillary Clinton has taken a 15 percentage-point lead over fellow US Senator Barack Obama in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination, according to poll results published Tuesday...

October 3, 2007, 1:45 pm

By Dalia Sussman

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton far outpaces her main Democratic rivals to handle a range of issues, and she is considered the strongest leader and the most electable – forces that have helped her widen her lead in the race for the Democratic nomination, according to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll.

Mrs. Clinton has anywhere from a 30-point lead to a 51-point lead over Senator Barack Obama to handle health care, the economy, the war in Iraq and the campaign against terrorism, the poll found.

Poll: Hillary Ahead In South Carolina
By Eric Kleefeld - August 22, 2007, 10:35AM
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/08/poll_hillary_ahead_in_south_carolina.php
New polling from Rasmussen has Hillary Clinton beating Barack Obama in the South Carolina primary, with 38% for Hillary against 30% for Obama, with John Edwards at a distant third with 13%. Hillary and Obama are even among black voters, a demographic in which Obama needs a strong majority in order to win. Among whites, Hillary leads with Edwards in second, and Obama far behind.

Iowa Poll Shows Clinton Ahead By 29 Percent
http://wap.nbc5.com/detail.jsp?key=251931&rc=ln_ne
10/08/2007 -- There's a new poll out in the all important state of Iowa that shows presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton ahead by 29 percent, with John Edwards and Sen. Barack Obama not far behind.

Clinton leaving Obama in the dust in latest state poll
Friday, August 17, 2007

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/08/17/MNG7RJV1E1.DTL&type=politics
New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, bolstered by an aggressive campaign organization in California, has amassed a whopping 30-point lead over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama - and enjoys more support among likely voters in the state Democratic primary than all of her Democratic presidential rivals combined, a Field Poll released today shows.

[Yurovsky]

89. Simply amazing ...

I don't think I've ever seen a reversal of fortune this rapid in my life. The only thing that comes close is when Grampa Chimpy came from behind in the summer of '88 to beat Mike Dukakis. I voted absentee, as I was out of the country for 6 months working and traveling. I came home stunned. I mean, I had read about the results, but it didn't really sink in until I was watching the news back in the States and heard the anchorperson refer to "President Bush". It made me physically ill.

If I'd have known I'd still be hearing "President Bush" in the present tense, TWENTY YEARS LATER, I would have slit my wrists.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. lying vs breaking your word.

Are you aware that those are two different things?

Making the case for a statement made in the past projecting future behavior as a 'lie' would entail proving that Obama knew at the time that he made the statement that he would not serve out his term. At that time it was vanishingly unlikely that Obama could run a serious campaign for president. Times have changed. If he is our nominee and if he wins in November, both highly likely events, he will be compelled by the Constitution to resign one of his offices. What would you suggest he do?

[jlake]

140. It depends what the meaning of "is" is. You mean like that?

[Vinca]

50. A Moonie Times article. How appropriate. nt

[jlake]

71. Well, here's a link to Meet The Press. Obama made that vow there too.

He shows a pattern of making promises he doesn't intend to keep.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6430019/

[BuyingThyme]

53. Yeah, like he knew he was going to become president of the United States.

[jlake]

66. Um, he knew he was going to run.

[Hippo_Tron]

57. Breaking a pledge and telling a lie are two different things...

Circumstances change that may give someone reason to break a pledge, but that does not mean that they were genuine at the time that they made the pledge.

If you want to criticize him for breaking a pledge, that's fine. I think it would be good if people didn't make these pledges in the first place.

[From The Left]

62. Less Than Hillary Lying about Her Pro-Iraq War Vote

Bump

[jlake]

63. That doesn't even make sense.

[Skip Intro]

65. Doesn't have to. Hillary hate requires no basis in reality. nt

[Skip Intro]

64. Well, if you say one thing and do the opposite, I think that pretty much defines you as a liar.

Of course, we'll get into the parsing of words here, from the Obama supporters.

Well, one can only HOPE.

[WillyT]

67. Um...

:wtf:

[jlake]

68. Go on, cry. You know he is a false God.

[WillyT]

70. I Think You Need To Lay Off The Crack Pipe...

:evilfrown:

[jlake]

72. I know drug use is common in Obamanation. I don't partake in that vile sin.

[WillyT]

76. LOL !!! - Puritans For Hillary... How Cute...

:crazy:

[jlake]

78. Yeah, okay. Don't hold back on your discriminatory rhetoric.

[WillyT]

79. And You Don't Hold Back On Your Drama...

It's quite entertaining.

:hi:

[jlake]

80. Well, I am sick and tired of the Obamabots worshipping a false idol and pissing all over

my religion.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

69. wow I had completely forgotten about that....hah indeed what else

[ErnestoG]

73. Washington Times huh? ROFL!

Moonie much?

[jlake]

84. Will Meet The Press work for you?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6430019/

[ErnestoG]

129. So did you get a nice congratulations note from Sun Yung Moon?

[totodeinhere]

74. Hillary lied when she said she had no plans to run for president.

Former first lady Hillary Clinton says she has no plans to launch a bid to become the country's first woman president in the next two elections.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/06/08/hillary/

So why are you singling out Obama. Is it OK for Hillary to lie but not Obama? Give me a break.

[ProSense]

97. You don't understand,

the rules made up by Hillary and her supporters don't apply to Hillary.

[jackson_dem]

75. His campaign does exactly what it professes to be crusading against

It is appalling that he has gotten away with this.

[Political Heretic]

77. Jlake you are your own 527, Swift Boat Jlake for Truth

All you ever do, is make post after post after post of baseless smears of your opponent. Nothing about why anyone should support your candidate, nothing about the details of her plans, nothing about why she would make the best president. Nothing.

Just pure, sleaze and the traditional style of a 527 attack group. You are the most disappointing kind of poster, because you go out of your way to grasp at any straw possible with the sole intention of making the other guy look bad at any cost. Of course, none of it is working, nor has it been effective, nor does it do much of anything other than make you look like a buffoon.

Worse still, Senator Obama will be the Democratic nominee soon, and you've already made it clear that you would rather refuse to vote for him, and by doing so actively aid in the deaths of more of our men and women in McCains endless war, actively discourage the real change for real American families that would come under any democratic president. That makes you about the lowest of the low.

I will vote for any Democratic nominee, including Hillary Clinton, because I won't put personal pettiness or gamesmanship above the interests of real people.

And as far as you're concerned, I'm done allowing myself to see you shit all over the boards with your useless, divisive crap.

[adapa]

81. Will you sereve your full term? Absolutely--Sen elec Obama, 2004

"MR. RUSSERT: Before you go, you know there's been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your full six-year term as U.S. senator from Illinois?

SEN.-ELECT OBAMA: Absolutely. You know, a little--some of this hype's been a little overblown. It's flattering, but I have to remind people that I haven't been sworn in yet. I don't know where the rest rooms are in the Senate. I'm going to have to figure out how to work the phones, answer constituent mail. I expect to be in the Senate for quite some time, and hopefully I'll build up my seniority from my current position, which I believe is 99th out of 100."

Meet the Press
Nov 7, 2004

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6430019/

[jakem]

82. he lied about hillary being likable enough...

[jlake]

83. Yeah, She's perfection.

[jakem]

85. you know, jlake-

i hope you are getting paid,

because otherwise you are totally deluded-

[jlake]

86. You know, I think we share the same name - and only one of us got the brain -

the other thinks they are so smart because they are following the crowd.

[jakem]

87. i dont think i am smart because i am following the crowd-

i am smart enough to know an authentic opportunity in politics when I see one.
we trend followers. believe whatever is popular, you know. earth is round. earth orbits sun. not every argument is won by saying that too many people believe something.


go crawl back under your rock of cynicism and status quo. take clintons with you.

[ecdab]

88. How tired are these kinds of arguments?

This thread starts out with OP compressing a piece in the Washington Times (that was itself edited and compressed) down to "I promise to serve out my 6 year term". Obama didn't say that, so it certainly shouldn't be in quotes. It would be fair to call it a lie to falsely quote somebody in that manner - right?

Then we get a link to the Washington Times piece which reads as follows:

On "Meet the Press" on Jan. 26, 2006, Tim Russert and Mr. Obama had the following exchange:

Mr. Russert: "hen we talked back in November of '04 after your election I said, 'There's been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?' "

Mr. Obama: "Absolutely."

Mr. Obama: "I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later you get weary and you start looking for new ways of saying things. But my thinking has not changed."

Mr. Russert: "So you will not run for president or vice president in 2008? Mr. Obama: I will not."

When somebody actually takes to time to look at the actual transcript of the January 22nd (yes- it was the 22nd not the 26th as the Washington Times "reported"), 2006 interview with Tim Russert we find:

MR. RUSSERT: There’s been enormous speculation about your political future, Senator. The man you succeeded in the Senate, Peter Fitzgerald, a Republican, said this recently. “I think there’s a very good chance that Senator Obama is on the Democratic ticket in 2008 as the vice presidential nominee.” Do you agree?

SEN. OBAMA: No. You know, I can’t speculate on those kinds of things. What I have said is that, you know, I’m not focused on running for higher office, I’m focused on doing the job that the people of Illinois just sent me to do.

MR. RUSSERT: But there seems to be an evolution in your thinking. This is what you told the Chicago Tribune last month: “Have you ruled out running for another office before your term is up?” Obama answer: “It’s not something I anticipate doing.” But when we talked back in November of ‘04 after your election I said, “There’s been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your six-year term as United States senator from Illinois?” Obama: “Absolutely.”

SEN. OBAMA: I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later you get weary and you start looking for new ways of saying things. But my thinking has not changed.

MR. RUSSERT: So you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?

SEN. OBAMA: I will not.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator, thank you very much for your candor and for joining us and sharing your views.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10909406/

We find a little bit of nuance that the Washington Times left out (in order to help McCain) and that the OP went even farther with. While Obama did indicate in fairly clear terms that he didn't plan on running for higher office at that time he certainly didn't "promise" anything - and we need to add comments like "It’s not something I anticipate doing", "my thinking has not changed" and "I can’t speculate on those kinds of things" to put his comments in full context. But it sounds so much more like a lie when we leave those parts out and insert the never spoken words "I promise" doesn't it. I would certainly define this thread as being dishonest, at best.

This should serve as at least a small lesson for those that would search through right-wing sources to attack their fellow Democrats with. I doubt it will serve as a lesson to this particular OP since they took the right wing source and distorted it much further, but some others may benefit.

[ecdab]

92. Oh, and I would very much like a response from jlake

as to why the words "I promise" were put into quotes and why a link was given to a Washington Times attack piece that edited out much of the actual interview with Obama as opposed to a link to the actual interview with Obama.

Can you answer that for me jlake?

[OzarkDem]

90. He's lied about his health care plan

For Obama, its all about Obama. Nothing else is important.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

95. and Obama Rips Off Clinton's Econ Plan and Claims It For His Own.....

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27012

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/2/14/1329/28824



Barack Obama unveiled an economic plan this week. From the Chicago Sun Times:

Obama's plan today is the most shameless piece of potential plagiarism that I have ever seen," McCain economic advisor Kevin Hassett said.

"He basically took Clinton's words and Clinton's policies and called them his own," Hassett said. "If I were a professor I'd give him an F and try to get him kicked out of school for something this terrible ... I remember Mrs. Clinton saying shared prosperity and I remember the bill that she introduced in August for infrastructure. The fact is these are things Obama has taken as his own without crediting the source of the ideas which was Mrs. Clinton."

Hillary's campaign responds:

The New York senator's campaign said she proposed a national infrastructure bank in August and that Obama's energy plan is a rehash of hers. The Obama campaign responded that his bank proposal is better than hers and that he introduced his energy plan before hers.

[SOS]

110. It's Nixon's 1971 health care plan, adopted by Edwards, Clinton and Obama:

"IN 1971, President Nixon sought to forestall single-payer national health insurance by proposing an alternative. He wanted to combine a mandate, which would require that employers cover their workers, with a Medicaid-like program for poor families, which all Americans would be able to join by paying sliding-scale premiums based on their income.
Nixon’s plan, though never passed, refuses to stay dead. Now Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Barack Obama all propose Nixon-like reforms. Their plans resemble measures that were passed and then failed in several states over the past two decades."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/15/opinion/15woolhandler.html

[mckeown1128]

94. He is going to do more than serve out his term...

He will spend the last two years REALLY serving out his term... Just for the record... why did Hillary run for reelection a few months before running for president???

[jlake]

102. What a stupid spin.

[ProSense]

103. Not as stupid as the OP! n/t

[jlake]

104. The OP is 100% Fact.

[ProSense]

108. So is this:

Former first lady Hillary Clinton says she has no plans to launch a bid to become the country's first woman president in the next two elections.

link

And there is this.

[mckeown1128]

105. You didn't answer my question. Why did Hillary run for

reelection less than two months before announcing that she was running for president?

[jlake]

106. Did she promise to serve out her full 2nd term. NO. Because she wants to be in the senate if she

is not in the white house.... and it looks like another 4 years of Republican rule, so it was clearly a prudent decision.

[ecdab]

109. HEY JLAKE, please point out where Obama stated

"I promise to serve out my six year term" as you quoted him as saying and then provided a link to a right wing news paper that gave an edited version of the actual transcript - and even they didn't sink so low as to make up quotes to put in Obama's mouth - that was all YOU - they only dropped the parts of the interview that helped to show that at the time he wasn't seriously considering running for higher office.

You do understand what somebody looks like when they make up a quote and attribute it to somebody and then accuse them of lying because of the quote they made up - right? Well, that's what you look like right now.

[jlake]

112. Right here:

"MR. RUSSERT: Before you go, you know there's been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your full six-year term as U.S. senator from Illinois?

SEN.-ELECT OBAMA: Absolutely. You know, a little--some of this hype's been a little overblown. It's flattering, but I have to remind people that I haven't been sworn in yet. I don't know where the rest rooms are in the Senate. I'm going to have to figure out how to work the phones, answer constituent mail. I expect to be in the Senate for quite some time, and hopefully I'll build up my seniority from my current position, which I believe is 99th out of 100."

Meet the Press
Nov 7, 2004

[ecdab]

115. JLAKE - that doesn't say what you quoted Obama as saying

- YOU MADE IT UP. You created the quote, You linked to a Right Wing attack piece because linking to the actual transcript defeated your false statement.

You do understand that the little " " means that you are indicating that a person actually said something word for word - right? That isn't lost on you - is it? If you actually didn't understand that basic use of the english language - OK, but it has been explained to now and you need to stop. What YOU are doing is very accurately defined as lying.

[jlake]

116. If you are serious, you need to seek immediate help. Your brain isn't working.

[ecdab]

120. So you don't think putting something in quotes that a person

didn't actual say is dishonest? That would explain the degree of your own dishonesty if you believe that to be the case.

You do understand the use of " " - right? Because, yes - I'm serious.

You do understand that making up something and placing it in quotes and then attributing it to somebody is dishonest at best - right? Because I'm serious about that as well.

You do understand that providing a link to a right wing attack pieces that edited out much of an interview in order to make somebody look bad is underhanded at best - right? because I'm serious about that also.

So instead of insulting me - please justify the use of making up quotes and attributing them to people. Please justify using partial transcripts that have been edited by right wing attack sites to further your own deception. I assume you can not.

[jlake]

114. I await your apology.

Whether you think it is important or not is up to you.
But Obama certainly did make that pledge.

[ecdab]

117. You are going to have to provide a link to the actual

quote that you appear to have made up, as opposed to providing links that do not state what you are saying - and then I may at least not consider YOU a bald face liar. But as it stands, not only does it appear that you made up the quote you attributed to Obama - but you intentionally provided a link to a right wing news paper that distorted the actual content of the interview with Obama in order to further your own attempted deception.

[jlake]

118. Obama made a vow. If you want to dispute that fact you need to get real.

[ecdab]

121. WHERE - where did he "vow" - please provide a link.

Do you know what a "vow" is - because it sure doesn't look like you know what a promise is, what a quote is, or the degree of your own dishonesty.

[Justice Is Comin]

126. What the fuck does "absolutely" mean to you?

You would build a ten mile bridge over a three foot pond to go over the water.

obama is a lying bullshitter of the highest order and has less talent than a dufus.

The thought of him being president is equivalent to giving a mental patient a Rubik's cube and telling him align the colors.

[ecdab]

128. save your profanity for others - seriously

If you fail to see the irony in the author of this piece making up a quote in order to accuse Obama of being dishonest - there is little help I can provide you with.

I will suggest that you look up the words "vow" and "state" and that you read the entire MTP transcript to see the context of Obama's comments. But I understand that may be asking a bit too much of somebody that feels the need to post a profanity laced tirade to a person they have never communicated with before.

I would hope you are able to acquire some level of courtesy in the near future - as your statements will be dismissed by most as just the foul mouthed rumblings of a juvenile until then, and I certainly wouldn't wish that upon anybody.

[Justice Is Comin]

132. Enjoy your ten mile bridge

and a abomination president if you get him.

It sure won't be my vote to help that disaster. I'll sleep late November 7th.

[ecdab]

135. Let me guess - another DU poster that backs McCain

over Obama.

The policy difference between Obama and Hillary are razor thin, so I'm guessing that policy issues mean nothing to you, nor do the basics of the Democratic platform that both Hillary and Obama support.

I fail to understand people like you - but, perhaps that is my own short coming.

[Justice Is Comin]

136. What you don't understand is obama is a pure through

and through Oscar Award level egotistic phony.

There were so many I could pick from but I picked this one for you. It will clearly explain my repulsion for obama. I think it got something like 160 on the greatest page. South Carolina still bought his James Jones act. Apparently so are you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4196457

[ecdab]

141. Ah yes, that piece allows me to place you

While I found it to be very light on substance and heavy on ill found opinions (" I see the real Obama" & body language just for starters) - at least it seems to mark you as somebody that was supporting the more progressive candidates at the outset. SO WAS I. The choices are now Hillary, Obama, and McCain. I have thrown in with Obama but really don't see much of a policy difference between him and Hillary. Backing Hillary in the GE would be easy for me. But when it comes to McCain - his continued backing of the Bush economic and foreign policies make it clear to me that he must be defeated by whom ever the Democratic candidate is. I'm sorry that you can not agree with the Democratic platform enough to see that. Certainly it would be nice to have a more progressive leader than either Hillary or Obama, but if wishes were fishes........ Well, you get the point. I didn't get what I wanted and nor did you - now it's time to deal with what we do have. I find your ongoing tirade to be very impractical and counter productive. I also find your speculative assumptions and your belief that you can some how "see" Obama for what he is (while everybody else some how can not) to make you many of the things that you seem to like to castigate (and do so with out substantive backing of these opinions) Obama for being. It appears to me that you have allowed emotions to get the best of you (often the case here - and often displayed in the form of profanity) and lost sight of what a president McCain would actually mean for this nation. I hope you open your eyes to this soon.

In the mean time might I suggest that back away from words like "egotistic", "phony" and reference to kool-aid drinkers. They discredit your opinions and make you look immature (that is, of course, just my opinion - though I'm sure it is shared by many that would like to see a more civil and substantive debate going on).

[ProSense]

96. Well, there is this:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama said Sunday that he may run for president in 2008, despite previous assertions that he would complete his current six-year senatorial term, which ends in 2011.

"I would say I am still at the point where I have not made a decision to pursue higher office, but it is true that I have thought about it over the last several months," the 45-year-old Democratic senator from Illinois told NBC's "Meet the Press."

In January, Obama told NBC that he would not run for president or vice president in 2008.

Asked Sunday about his earlier stance, Obama said, "That was how I was thinking at that time."

"I don't want to be coy about this, given the responses that I've been getting over the last several months," he said. "I have thought about the possibility, but I have not thought about it with the seriousness and depth that I think is required."

link

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Sen. Barack Obama said Tuesday he is taking a first step toward running for president next year.

"I will be filing papers today to create a presidential exploratory committee," the Illinois Democrat said, adding that he will announce his final decision February 10 from his hometown of Chicago.

He made the announcement in a video posted on his Web site -- www.barackobama.comexternal link.

"The decisions that have been made in Washington over the past six years and the problems that have been ignored have put our country in a precarious place," he said in the video.

In addition to citing "the tragic and costly war that should never have been waged," Obama mentioned health care, pensions, college tuition and "our continued dependence on oil" as issues that need work.

But he said it is the "smallness of our politics" that most bothers him.

link

There is a difference between lying and changing one's mind. The people of Illinois don't seem to mind, they overwhelmingly approve:

Obama 1,301,954 65%

Clinton 662,845 33%

link

[Kittycat]

111. I feel sorry for you.

That you've chosen to take the same disgraceful path as your candidate :( I'll keep you in my thoughts that you'll still be voting Dem this fall.

[jlake]

113. Obama is a charlatan. He will never have my vote.

[Kittycat]

124. I'm sorry you're blinded by your hate.

But more disappointed to hear that you support McCain. I guess we won't be seeing you after a while, since you're required to support the Dem party to be a member here.

[jlake]

127. Well, I am sorry that Obama felt the need to throw me under the bus.

And I will actively support McCain over Obama.

[ErnestoG]

130. jlake: "And I will actively support McCain over Obama."

Oh that's a KEEPER! LOL

[ecdab]

131. Well, at least he was clear about where his

loyalty is. That might help explain why he was providing links to the Washington Times that supported the election of McCain.

But isn't actively supporting the Republican party in verbal form on this site against DU rules? Not that I'd want to see a swell and honest poster like jlake get banned or anything.

[ErnestoG]

133. Right. It also clears up how short his stay will be at DU.

They are carving out a nice tombstone for him as we speak, I bet.

[Faygo Kid]

119. Martin Luther King, Jr.: "The fierce urgency of now."

That's why Obama is running. Now is the time. While Barack uses the phrase in his speeches, let Dr. King explain its meaning more fully. From a speech at Riverside Church in New York, 1967:

"We are now faced with the fact, my friends, that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history, there is such a thing as being too late. Procrastination is still the thief of time. Life often leaves us standing bare, naked, and dejected with a lost opportunity. The tide in the affairs of men does not remain at flood-it ebbs. We may cry out desperately for time to pause in her passage, but time is adamant to every plea and rushes on. Over the bleached bones and jumbled residues of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words, "Too late." There is an invisible book of life that faithfully records our vigilance or our neglect. Omar Khayyam is right: "The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on."

[candice]

125. Rezko? Surrogate Lobbyists? Selma?

[candice]

134. Did "racism" tear apart his parents?

or in reality, did his mother divorce his father after she found out he was still married to someone else, whom he’d abandoned back in Kenya. (Daily Mail) His first wife was pregnant with their second child when he left.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770


... by offering up a conveniently potted account of his personal history in this way (his autobiography), he might even have made a pre-emptive strike on those sure to pose the awkward questions that inevitably face a serious contender for the White House.

Yet an investigation by The Mail on Sunday has revealed that, for all Mr Obama's reputation for straight talking and the compelling narrative of his recollections, they are largely myth.

We have discovered that his father was not just a deeply flawed individual but an abusive bigamist and an egomaniac, whose life was ruined not by racism or corruption but his own weaknesses.

And, devastatingly, the testimony has come from Mr Obama's own relatives and family friends.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770

[AX10]

137. kick for others to see.

Obama is nothing special. He lies like the others.

[TreasonousBastard]

138. Everything! I'M CHANGING MY VOTE!

[jlake]

139. Good to know.

[Muzza]

142. Gee, you're asking for a beating!!! I have been hammered tonight!!

But, like Hillary, I am still standing!

[AtomicKitten]

143. He said he would be friends with Hillary after the election.

That's probably one of those white lies.

[Dinger]

145. Hmmmmm

That is all.

[madmunchie]

147. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA pretty damn desperate aren't you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

148. Obviously the people of Illinois are upset about it.

:rofl:

[democrattotheend]

149. He didn't lie

He might have broken a promise, but he didn't lie, unless you can prove that when he said that, he had no intention of serving out his term and knew then that he would run for president. I don't think that was the case.

[jlake]

150. He certainly did lie. Quite spinning.