Ask Nader to Drop Out

[The Political Eye]

I just sent a message to Mr. Ralph Nader, asking him to drop out of the race for President.


Nader Web Contact Link http://www.votenader.org/contact/index.php

[MadHound]

1. Why?

Lord knows we need some alternative to this corporate whorefest that some are calling an election.

[jpgray]

2. When Chomsky and Zinn endorse the Democrat, you know it's a unique event

Nader should stay in if he wants, but most leftists agree Bush needs to go. Nader of course is profiting both ways, since his Magellan fund invests in Raytheon, Halliburton and Boeing while he fleeces gullible young folks who oppose what those corporations are doing in Iraq.

[MadHound]

Tell you what,

Why don't you go research and find out just how much of his money Nader gives away annually? Also you can find out how much of his own money Nader uses to funds the various endevors he gets into. The information is easily available to such a fine muckracker as you, and then you will have the complete Nader financial story, not just the biased bullshit that gets passed around by those who are inclined that democracy only applies to two parties.

And yes, most leftists agree that Bush must go, that is a given. Where a lot of leftists disagree is whether or not he should be replaced with a corporate whore that has a D behind his name. Especially one who is already promising that he will continue to ramp up the Iraq war into even larger quagmire proportions.

And while I respect Chomsky and Zinn, I don't neccessarily agree with all that they have to say. In fact I tend to look away from the whole endorsement slate, and instead look at what the candidate is actually going to do. I don't like what I see in Kerry, therefore I will be voting either Green(1st choice) or Nader. It is called a democracy, get used to it.

[jpgray]

6. Justify your milder form of obscene hypocrisy any way you want

I want no part of him. Work for Cobb or Camejo, don't work for a vulture like Nader.

edit: And if you're implying that investing in these monstrous corporations is fine because he donates money to a worthy cause (while maintaining a personal wealth of $3 million), let me tell you that ends justifies the means rhetoric does not ever fly with me.

[MadHound]

12. Obscene hypocrisy, now that's a laugh.

Especially in light of what Kerry is doing. Mouthing pious peaceful platitudes out one side of his mouth, and meanwhile rattling that war saber and talking the war talk out of the other side. Please!

And oh so liberal Kerry votes to leave no child left behind, while ditching the senior citizens on Medicare and prescription drugs, and stripping us all of our civil liberties with his vote for the Patriot Act.

That my friend is obscene hypocrisy. If your conscience can allow you to live with that, fine. But mine certainly can't. There are too many innocent lives at stake.

[jpgray]

13. Hypocrisy in any form is repugnant to me. I wish you could say the same

If I'm going to vote my conscience, it won't be for someone little better than the hypocrites running for the two major parties.

Profiting from the cruise missiles and aircraft that bomb innocents in Baghdad while at the same time collecting money from activists who oppose the war is obscene hypocrisy.

Don't tie yourself in knots trying to justify Nader. Recognize him for what he is and move on. If you don't want to vote for a hypocrite, take a good look at Camejo and Cobb, and support Kucinich in the Democratic primary if your state hasn't voted.

[MadHound]

16. I think that I've already stated that Green party is my first choice

Nader is second, and Dems/Kerry come in a distant third.

[blm]

28. In other words...Bush is your first choice.

Because only ONE person will win in November. Bush or Kerry.

Every vote effects which one of them will be left standing at the end of the day.

[ozone_man]

44. Only ONE bonesman will be elected in November.

Every vote counts. But which one to choose?

Kerry revealed more of his character today by coming out against Chavez, supporting the continuance of U.S. policy against Venezuela. To me, there seems little difference between * and Kerry. Tweedle Dee you say?

[VOX]

42. Uh, this *is* DEMOCRATIC Underground...

Backing Nader (or even the Green Party) is your privilege, but both run counter to the philosophy of this Web site.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html
"...We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals..."

Right now, it's a safe bet that the biggest shared goal we have is to get rid of *. Backing Nader in any way will do *nothing* to help attain that goal.

[neverforget]

34. I can't wait until CHIEF JUSTICE SCALIA control SCOTUS.

A vote for Nader is a vote for Scalia and the right wing to control the Federal Judiciary. No difference between Kerry and Bush?

[Hippo_Tron]

35. Corporate whore?

Please back up such an accusation.

[The Political Eye]

3. Why? To Prevent Four More Years of Bush

Nader could promote his policies/agenda as a citizen.

Asking him not to run does stop him from being an activist?

[MadHound]

10. Ahh, the old BOOGA BOOGA tactic,

And the ABBers are getting played like a fiddle. Again. I should know, I've been in that same spot as recently as the '00. I caved and voted for Gore.

No, nobody wants four more years of Bush. But neither can we continue to go down this road of corporate control of our government. One would think you people would have learned that lesson under the tutelage of the Clinton regime. Ran as a Democrat, even mouthed pious Dem platitudes, yet governed like a 'Pug.

Sorry, but that shit doesn't fly for me anymore. I'm looking for some real change, you know, voting in a party or candidate that takes NO money from corporations. Supporting people who once they get into office are only beholden to their constituents, not the corporations. It is going to be a long fight, thus the need to start and continue this campaign is vital. In '00 the Greens didn't make the magic 5% number. That is an admirable goal to shoot for this time around. Then we build from there. Within two-four election cycles we will be a viable party and the Dems will be going the way of the Whigs.

And yes, it will suck if Bush gets another term. But you know what, every time that a third party runs, the Dems get all hysterical and keep bleating that we shouldn't do that, because (insert 'Pug name here) is the Devil incarnate and will bring hell down to Earth. Many people have fallen for it. And many people are now wiser, we won't fall for that hyperbole anymore.

So you can either join us or get rolled over, because we are coming through. If you want to hang onto the disillusioned dreams of the formerly great Democratic party, fine. But don't be suprised when the dreams vanish in a burst of corporate cash, for that is the real controlling factor behind the Dem party these days. Corporate cash, and the Dems are dancing the coporate tune. Join in if you wish, but I'm done with that dance.

[jpgray]

11. The Ernst Thalmann argument, alive and well

'By raising the specter of Hitler's fascism, Social Democracy is attempting to sidetrack the masses from the vigorous action against the dictatorship of finance capital.... There are some people who fail to see the Social Democratic forest for the National Socialist trees'. He confused the Social-Democratic reactionary practices with fascism, and did not realize at the time that Hitler would move to crush all independent political movements in Germany once he solidified his power. Indeed he believed the Nazi success in the election of 1930 would be Hitler's "best day", and that he would have "worse days" from that time forward. Thalmann later died in Buchenwald.

This isn't a boogeyman. Chomsky and Zinn recognize how serious the threat is--they would never dream of supporting a bourgeois corporatist such as Kerry if Bush wasn't fundamentally dangerous. Bush is no Hitler at this point, but if you leave an authoritarian government in power for long enough, you run the risk of causing death and suffering to thousands. It has already happened in his first term--a lame duck Bush term IS a frightening proposition.

That isn't to say you should let fear drive your voting decision. If you want to vote third party, you may--no one here will try and stop you. But don't tell me that Bush is not a very real threat to this country and to the peace and security of people around the world.

[MadHound]

14. Well my friend, if this isn't a boogeyman arguement

Then why are you making the traditional (insert current 'Pug president here)/Hitler comparisons. Yes, Bush is a horrible president, one that got us into a bloody, unjustified war. But why should we be fearmongered and stampeded into voting in a Dem will simply continue his policies, albeit in a kinder, gentler form?

[jpgray]

17. Just pointing out that sometimes the boogeyman argument is right

We have, in fact, more reason to be cognizant of the danger Bush poses than the Germans did of Hitler in 1930. Bush, after all, has already consolidated the media, persecuted leftist leaders, justified his policies through blaming shadowy outsider enemies, and trampled our civil liberties.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. And this isn't booga booga...

to thow away support and a vote on someone who has absolutely no chance whatsoever to get elected?

Like it or not, there are only two choices in this election. That's pretty much the way it was since Washington ran and won.

Teddy Roosevelt, Robert LaFollete, and George Wallace had a lot more steam than Nader ever had, and they couldn't change things. (Fortunately, in the case of Wallace) How's the Progressive Party doing? The Reform Party?

Anybody want to start a pool on how many states he can even get on the ballot in? Without party backing, he'll need a lot of signatures.

Nader's been out of it for years, with the same mantra he's been reciting since who knows when. Now, with an election looming, his corpse is suddenly reanimated to "save" us from the corporate culture running the country. So, where the hell was he for the last three years? Working with other reformers? Supporting succesful opposition organizations? Running for the Senate, maybe? Noooo... that's not good enough for Saint Ralph-- it's the top job or nothing.

Well, screw him. This is a democracy, and a lot of people actually kind of like businesses making money and making things and having the jobs to buy those things they make. That many of them are stupid enough to fall for the Shrub horseshit doens't mean they are completely wrong.

It also doesn't mean that there can't be changes in our mixed economy that schlubs like Nader don't understand and couldn't bring about anyway.

We are stuck with two parties, General Motors, Wal-Mart and a lot of other stuff we don't like much, but they are not going away, and we simply have to make the best of the mess we have.

Now, one of two people is going to be inaugurated President next January. No one else, just one of those two.

Which of THOSE TWO should it be?

[VOX]

46. "Join us or get rolled over." Nader couldn't even roll over in bed!

He couldn't even scrape up 5% of the vote in 2000. If he can get on the ballot in all states (and that's a mighty, mighty big "if"), he'll be lucky to pull in 2%, tops.

And how many votes will be snagged by (choose your Green candidate) Sheila Bilyeau, Peter Camejo, David Cobb, Paul Glover, Kent Mesplay, Carol Miller and Lorna Salzman?

Voting isn't therapy. There is a clear and present danger loose in this country, and if you think that there will be anything left after another 4 years of the right-wing cabal, you're very much mistaken. Look at what's happened in the last 3 1/2 years -- and * hardly had a mandate in 2000.

Forget about the SCOTUS for a second -- many the district judgeships (the minor league for SCOTUS) are being filled with right-wingers by * -- and these are lifetime appointments. These people will
be interpreting the laws of the land for decades to come. It will be *over* for women, gays, minorities, students, educators, etc. Over. And our country will be long gone.

[onehandle]

4. Welcome to Democratic Underground.

There is nothing in the Democratic Platform about being anti-corporation.

Good luck in your fight against the party.

[Hippo_Tron]

50. Dupe n/t

Ignoring him and making him a non-issue draws media attention AWAY from him.

[onehandle]

5. Pointless.

If he could be persuaded, he wouldn't have run in the first place.

Ignore him. He will Not get more than 1% this Fall.

[Snotcicles]

7. After they debate

America needs Nader in the Debates. Thats the only way to cut through the crap and get to the issues.

[The Political Eye]

8. Polls show a Nader Impact

I have seen a couple of polls recently that show a significant Nader impact. It happened last election and would not want to have it happen again.

Link to DU Posting on New Hampshire Poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x472388

[patricia92243]

9. And I am sure that now he will drop out - wish I'd thought of that

[DeepModem Mom]

15. Thanks for posting this, and welcome, Political Eye --

Even one percentage point could make the difference in this election, as it did in the last. Mr. Nader has heard from me several times.

[Snotcicles]

18. Relax

Nader said relax. Read between the lines.

[The Political Eye]

19. When did Nader Say Relax?

I am curious when Nader said relax? In what context? Do you have a link?

Thanks

Added:

Found the quote. It was just after announcing his “run”. I would be a bit more “relaxed” if he withdraws and works for his agenda as a private citizen.


NYT: <snip> "I urge the liberal establishment to relax and rejoice," he said. "This is a campaign that strives to displace the present corporate regime of the Bush administration."

While Mr. Nader did not say whether he would withdraw his candidacy if the race between the Republican and Democratic candidates for the White House was close, he said he intended to be constructive. Instead of hurting the Democratic Party, and American democracy in general, he said, his campaign was intended to strengthen the democratic system by ridding American politics of corporate influence and empowering the liberal electorate.

Full Link

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/23/politics/campaign/23CND-NADER.html?ei=5070&en=ceceb956582e4d40&ex=1079931600&pagewanted=print&position=

[eyesroll]

21. I want a t-shirt

(Sorry.)

[MoonRiver]

20. Done. Here's my message

Dear Ralph,

For most of my adult life I have known of and respected the work you've done for consumers. My husband and I both wrote your name in on the 1996 ballot as a protest against two candidates we found equally unpalatable. And that was in a state where our votes actually mattered. However, in the 2000 election I watched a smear campaign take place against Al Gore that was simply beyond the pale. And the most alarming factor was that the outrageous attacks against him involved a clear collusion between our mainstream media and the Bush campaign. Al Gore, who was rightfully elected but not allowed to serve by decree of what can only be called a bananarepublicesque Supreme Court, was vastly different from environmental hog, civil rights hating, warmongering, international pariah Bush. Surely this difference is obvious to you, regardless of your statements to the contrary. The same differences exist between John Kerry and Bush.

Your campaign took votes away from Al Gore. If all or even some of those votes had gone in his corner, which many Nader voters concede would have been the case, the race might not have been close enough for our corrupt SCOTUS to award the presidency to the loser.

My plea is that you not permit the same fiasco to take place this November. Our country might very well not survive 4 more years of Bush. Horrors looming in the wake of such an event include economic devastation, the shredding of women's rights, our environment becoming a playground for big developers and oil companies, the institution of a draft to provide cannon fodder for Bush's neverending "war on terror", and international repercussions of unknown but likely significant dimensions against Bush's policies.

Please, Ralph, drop out of the race and throw your support to Senator Kerry. It's the right thing to do for America and the world.

[MAlibdem]

22. done

i was polite, too...weird

[The Political Eye]

23. Polite is Good " Mr Nader Please Withdraw from the Race"

I was polite also but why not?

Nader has a long history of fighting the good fight.

It's the bitter result of the last Presidential election and this year’s "run" that has tarnished his image and given me pause to wonder about whether it’s the cause or his ego that drives him.

[diamondsoul]

24. In a word....NO.

I will not ask Mr. Nader to withdraw, and in fact intend to assist in his ballot access efforts.

I'm a little d democrat more than a big D Democrat. Independants who despise both Bush and Kerry have a right to be represented on that ballot, whether you like it or not.

[OKNancy]

26. Well, I'm a big D Democrat

always have been and have no apologies. If you are helping with ballot access and plan to promote anyone but a Democrat, then you are just as bad as a Republican in my eyes. Republicans are "the enemy" and so is anyone else who tries to hand this election over to the most vile group to ever inhabit the White House.

[MAlibdem]

48. Big D DEMOCRATS

Are the BOMB DIZZLE. If you work for Nader, you work AGAINST Kerry. Read the board rulzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[RichM]

27. Kerry should drop out & throw his support to Nader or Kucinich.

His speech should go something like this:

My fellow Americans,

I see now that I did not deserve to become the Democratic nominee. My support for the Iraq war, my two-faced 'explanations' for that support, and my support for the occupation, really disqualify me for any leadership role in my party. I apologize to you, for not having had the guts to say publically that the war was really about oil and geopolitical dominance.

I therefore withdraw from the race, and urge all of you to carry forward the candidacy of Dennis Kucinich, the only Democrat who had the guts & integrity to tell you the truth. I also apologize to Dennis himself, for lying baldfacedly to him in the LA debate about my proposal for 40,000 new soldiers, & for not demanding that his brilliantly thought-out positions be given a fair hearing, in the season's final debates.

Thank You.

[Dr Fate]

29. Ohh-I want to play pretend too- How bout Mike Moore, or Jello Biafra...

...or another candidate that would insure a Bush victory.

Moderate and centrist voters DO NOT EXIST, or at least it is fun to pretend that.

[DisgustiPatriotiated]

31. Why not just save all that trouble and vote directly for Bush

[Colin Ex]

40. Are you sure that's okay?

I mean, it's not like people should be able to vote for the guy they want to, right?

People can vote for Nader if they damn well want to. If the Democratic party can't pull out a victory over Bush, Nader or not, then they don't deserve to win.

John Kerry does not automatically get my vote, or anyone else's. Jesus.

-C

[Mairead]

36. What a true statesman he would be if he did that, eh Rich?

I'd praise him to the skies forever more.

Regretably, even the very idea would never occur to him.

[zulchzulu]

30. Ask Nader what flavor of pie he likes

I know just how to serve it to him.

[VOX]

47. Ha! He has a one-way ticket reserved to The House of Pies...

And may he spend the rest of his days getting pelted, for all that he has to answer for.

[DisgustiPatriotiated]

32. LOL! Now why didn't I think of that!

[otohara]

33. Done

hope he isn't like Bush - I don't care what you think! now go away

[The Political Eye]

37. Nader Can Only Help Bush

I just can't believe we will end up with Nader again playing the role of the ego driven spoiler?

<snip>
Kerry 48, Bush 46; With Nader It's a Tie; Kerry Leads Big in the Blues, Bush Leads Big in the Reds; Bush Preferred If Terror Hits US, New Zogby International Poll Reveals

Full Link: http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=812

Send a message to Mr. Ralph Nader, asking him to drop out of the race for President.


Nader Web Contact Link http://www.votenader.org/contact/index.php

[YIMA]

38. done

[The Political Eye]

39. Polls Keep Showing Nader Hurting kerry

<Snip> Bush was backed by 46 percent of voters, Kerry by 43 percent and independent Ralph Nader (news - web sites) by 5 percent, according to the poll conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs.

Full Link http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=3&u=/ap/20040323/ap_on_el_pr/president_ap_poll

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. I sent a letter before he announced, asking him not to. I'm not wasting

the time. He isn't going to factor in this time around. In my opinion.

[VOX]

43. Done. With a vengeance.

:kick:

[boobooday]

45. People, Please

Vote Kucinich.

O8) :party: :bounce:

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[MAlibdem]

49. If he was the Democratic nominee

I'd be happy to. But he's not and he won't be. Numerically it's over. I'm (long) past the primaries, it's all about the GE, and beating GWB, and helping JK restore democracy and REAL American values.

[Hippo_Tron]

51. I think the key to beating Nalph Rader is to ignore him

If Nalph gets 20 million e-mails telling him to drop out, it's going to get media attention. If Nalph stays out of the media, Nalph gets less votes.