I'm having trouble with Kerry...Need some Help!

[Leilani]

http://www.nytimes.com/20004/03/19/politics/campaign/19KERR.html

According to the NY Times, Kerry went snowboarding, & a secret service agent cut him off, which caused him to fall.

Kerry said, "I don't fall down," then used an expletive to describe the agent who "knocked me over."

Sorry guys, this screams of arrogance. Secret Service agents risk their lives for the people they cover, & this reeks of noblesse oblige.

The Times broke the story, but it is now on Drudge & many other sites.

The Bush machine is attacking him, he goes on vacation; fine, he needs the rest, but instead troops all over the slopes skiing, snowboarding, with reporters in tow, & acts like an ass.

Next problem: On 9/14/03 on Face the Nation, Kerry was interviewed about funding for the troops in Iraq. He said it would be "irresponsible" to vote against the $87 billion & leave the troops behind.

No link for above incident, however Fox showed a clip of the interview, & that's what he said.

How can we defend this guy? Idid not support Kerry, howver I have tried to be enthusiastic, & look always at the best side of things, because anyone is better than Bush. But I don't feel real comfortable with his lack of consistency.

All of this behavior is falling right into Repubs attacks: that he is an elitist snob, & that he flip flops.

Kerry supporters: I would appreciate your reaction to my feelings, & explain why I'm wrong.

[napsi]

1. You're not wrong

Kerry is arrogant but he's better than Bush. He's all we have for 04 so suck it up and close your eyes and ears.

[TomSeaverr]

2. EASY

the alternative is the Chimp. Who would be so much worse than you could ever imagine. Also I read the crap on druge and it sound like more of his bullshit

[Lefta Dissenter]

3. OK, I don't know anything about the skiing story

but I'm just going to remind you to take everything you read with an enormous shaker-full of salt! Remember all the mis-quotes of Clark - he wanted to pursue time-travel, etc., And don't forget that Gore invented the internet... :shrug:

[Leilani]

12. That's True.

All the phtos of extreme sports in Idaho seems a little silly to me.

It's the 1st year anniversary of Iraq, bldgs are blowing up in Iraq, Pakistani soldiers are mounting a major offensive on Al Queda, & generally all hell is breaking loose.

If he needs a rest, fine, but don't turn it into giant photo ops.

[Qanisqineq]

4. I've been feeling the same way lately

I tried to embrace him after he got the nomination. Now I find myself constantly cringing when his name comes up in the news. I just hope all this will change soon.

[WilliamPitt]

5. Ever gone snowboarding?

Your legs are strapped to a board, and when you fall, you usually wind up slamming the back of your head pretty hard. If someone - a Secret Service Agent, my mom, or Jesus H. Christ - cut me off and caused me to bust my ass, I'd be pretty pissed, too. It hurts like hell.

As for the "I don't fall down" comment, that sounds like a competitor to me. Kerry is a known gamer. For people predisposed to dislike the guy, this will help. I don't care so much, but that's just me.

PS, your link goes to "Page Not Found".

[Leilani]

9. I don't know why the link is not working

If you want the story:

NY Times
Politics2004
scroll to end of page & hit additional stories
scroll to bottom of page
Story: Amid Natural Splendor in Idaho,a Weary Kerry Gets Away From It All

[WilliamPitt]

13. Thanks

[sadiesworld]

6. The agent probably did it on purpose...

so the press could get a picture of Kerry looking as bad as the uncoordinated chimp. I don't blame Kerry for being pissed.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

7. This could also be very exaggerated. In Iowa, the service people

at all the hotels, bars and restaurants were questioned about their impressions of the candidates after dealing with them for the past year and Kerry won hands down. They said he was always the most polite and respectful to them.

I wouldn't take this vacation story as indicative of Kerry's character any more than I would the Gore said he invented the internet story,

I just don't believe it happened exactly the way the reporter claims.

[iamjoy]

8. This Is Troubling...

Because of how Kerry will be perceived by the general populace.

For those who say there is more to the story - maybe he was joking when he said it. We don't know the relationship he has with these guys. But, again, how is the "liberal" media spinning it?

Even if Kerry wasn't joking, for me, I am so convinced Bush is wrong for our country, that Kerry could do or say just about anything and I'd vote for him. To twist a James Carville saying, the only way Kerry could lose my vote now is if he gets caught with a dead girl or a live boy (and in this case, I do mean underage male).

[sadiesworld]

11. I don't know...

I mean, maybe with the girl it might be self-defense and the boy may LOOK 18...(JOKING)

[sandnsea]

10. Tough to say

It strikes me as somebody who is exhausted and tired of having every negative thing he does splashed all over the media and nothing positive. Who knows every time he falls down it's going to be reported and nothing else will. He signed up for it, so he better get used to it. But I can understand the frustration.

OR

He was laughing it off. Hey man, I don't fall down. That shithead knocked me over! Haha.

Who knows. Who cares.

As to your interpretation of that clip, here's the transcript. The word vote isn't anywhere in it. He knew whether the bill would pass or not and he also knew that if the Congress really decided to say no, Bush would have to make concessions to get it passed. The United States is not going to abandon our troops and it's just assinine to suggest otherwise. I don't know why people contribute to Foxnews by watching it and especially by repeating their shit and most especially, repeating that shit here.

"I don't think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's irresponsible.

What is responsible is for the administration to do this properly now. And I am laying out the way in which the administration could unite the American people, could bring other countries to the table, and I think could give the American people a sense that they're on the right track. There's a way to do this properly. But I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run and not do the job."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/15/ftn/main573309.shtml

[Leilani]

18. Thanks very much for the transcript

I read it, & you're right, Fox put the worst spin on it they could.

But you must admit, Kerry's positions are so nuanced, that it is very easy to put the worst spin possible on it.

To the average voter, it doesn't add up. How many voters follow issues, & research particular wording of sentences? Very few.So many times perceptions are all that matters.

I will vote for Kerry, & maybe I'm just having a bad day, but the news of the past week has been a downer.

[sandnsea]

20. You get it, don't you?

This is exactly what everybody said all the way through Iowa. But in the end, the voters did understand what he had to say. People really aren't as stupid as we think. The ones who don't want to support him will spin it every which way from Sunday, from the left and the right. Everybody else will understand and they'll vote Kerry.

And weeks like this are tough to take. We went through it for oh, at least 6 months. Aloof. Patrician. Nuanced. Aloof. Patrician. Nuanced. It's crap. Just try to have faith people will figure it out. And remember, John Kerry is a hell of a closer!

[Leilani]

26. Thanks

I know he's a great closer.

If only the Chimp had the courage to accept Kerry's debate challenge.
Of course I knew he wouldn't, it's hard enough to prep him for the 3 debates the will have.

But if only we could get to the ISSUES, instead of all this other crap. It is really so frustrating & tiresome, when there are such important topics to be discussed, but we're stuck in this media morass.

[iamjoy]

48. Really? I get the feeling we are being set up

Like the media was all nicey nice to Kerry during the primary, 'cos they wanted him to be the nominee, and the Repugnantcans held off on all their negativity, 'cos they wanted him to be the nominee and now that he is the all-but-official nominee, they're letting him have it.

Of course, maybe I'm just paranoid.

[Rowsdower]

14. Kerry is a walking disaster

Why was Kerry annointed? He's a complete fool that will bring down the democrat party if someone doesn't pull their head out of there ass soon and get rid of him. Bush should be easy to defeat, but if democrats plan to get behind Kerry, then they really don't want to win. You want a guaranteed loss in November? Keep backing Kerry. You want to win? Get rid of him while there is still a chance. Kerry's got to go.

[WilliamPitt]

17. "get rid of him"

Is this a threat?

He's the nominee, friend. Like it or lump it, he's the guy unless we revisit Laurel, Maryland.

Which returns me to my first question.

[Old and In the Way]

19. Nice character assassination.

"if someone doesn't pull their head out of there ass". What someone are you refering to? Just what is this "there ass" that you refer to?

You really aren't fooling anyone here, but humor us anyway. Who do you think we should be annoiting?

[Leilani]

21. My post was meant for discussion of issues

It wasn't meant for attack purposes, as you're doing.

And he was not "annointed," he won the primaries, fair & square.

And no, he won't go, he's the nominee!

[Career Prole]

24. Firstly Kerry's no fool, whereas bush* has ample documentation.

Secondly, no one has their "head up there (sic) ass" here with the possible exception of *ahem*
Thirdly, bush* will be easy to defeat and digs the hole deeper every time he opens his mouth, and we are all united behind Kerry whether in total agreement with him or not. We're united like you wouldn't believe, because bush* is a uniter.
Finally, do you want a guaranteed loss in November? Keep backing bush*.

[MercutioATC]

25. Note to Rowsdower: "democrat party" is a faux pas that we Dems have

learned to avoid. You're OBVIOUSLY committed to the cause...try to remember the nomenclature (I's DEMOCRATIC pParty).

[Crunchy Frog]

36. Yes, the use of the term

in question tends to be indicative of a *certain* kind of visitor we have here from time to time.

[Democat]

38. Bye

:)

[rasputin1952]

52. If you want to see a "walking disaster" look at bush...

Kerry is working hard to bring all of the factions together, as long as we have individuals that will take an opportunity to shoot him in the foot every chance they get, we will not come together.

I cannot see where Kerry is the disater you describe. He is rooted in the Dem party and will be the best bet we have to unseat the bush cabal, which is the primary mission we have.

My candidate lost in the primaries, I am not going to cry about it...I am going to vote for the Dem candidate and get bush out of OUR WH. It is that simple.

O8)

[mzmolly]

15. Link Broken? However, knowing what reporters do, I'd say it's likely that

this stuff was said in jest.

I have heard them quote Dean when he was joking, and it takes on a whole new meaning when you omit... "he said jokingly" or "he said with a wink"

I need to have the full story before making assumptions here personally.

[Leilani]

22. Sorry link is not working

I posted above how to reach the story #9 response.

[rasputin1952]

16. LEt's put this into perspective...

Forget Kerry falling down.

What would happen if that simian creature in our WH fell down in public? I will bet you that everyone within 30 yds of him would be transfered to some outpost in AK. If there was ever a meaner piece of semi-humanity than bush that has been president, I never heard of him.

For Pete's sake, bush fell down after eating a pretzel! (I still don't believe that, my money goes to Pickles popping him). The press thought it was 'funny', the rest of the nation knew we had an idiot that couldn't chew and watch a football game at the same time.

In the end, it means nothing. bush and his minions from hell will do ANYTHING to make Kerry look bad, so far it has made bush look petty and stupid. As long as they stay on this tack, bush will be out. THAT will save the country!

O8)

[iamjoy]

49. Don't Insult the Primates.

By comparing Bush to them.

:P

really, Kerry falling down is just good humor - some of us still laugh at President Ford tripping on the steps of Air Force 1. Bush Sr. puking on that Japanese ambassador (and I fully believe it wasn't #41's fault).

It's all this business about Kerry's supposed comment afterwords that bugs me.

[pmbryant]

23. Never believe what you read in the media

Read the excellent blog Daily Howler once in a while and you will realize that even the "prestigious" news sources like the NY Times are full of political reporters who love to twist quotes out of context, and sometimes even invent stories out of thin air.

This happened in 2000 to Gore with the whole 'invented the internet' BS and many, many other issues.

Now it is happening with Kerry.

Please do not let yourself fall into the trap of believing this crap.

--Peter

EDIT: Just found a working link to the story and the answer in right in the byline: David Halbfinger. One of the worst offenders at the NY Times for malicious political journalism. See dailyhowler.com for details.

[Leilani]

45. Thanks for that info!

I never heard of David Halbfinger.

Also, I'll check Daily Howler.

[Leilani]

47. I read the Howler, & found it good.

The rant about McCain doing the media's job was really true!

[JI7]

27. why did the secret service guy knock him over ?

i don't know what to make of it because interpretation means a lot. i'm guessing if it's true in any way then kerry was irritated and maybe in physical pain from being "knocked over" and it was an emotional reaction. hopefully he apologized later. or as sandnsea said, maybe he said it in a joking way in which case it's not really an issue. whatever it is i hope he learns from it and realizes that there will be reporters and cameras on him most of the time now and he needs to be aware of it.

[patricia92243]

28. Being angry because somebody knocked you down makes yu an elietist snob?..

Sorry, don't get the connection.

Sking while he is on vacation? What's the problem?

The whole thing sounds so silly. I really can't think of anything else to say about nothing!

[TheStateChief]

35. Easy, he's calling a guy who risks his life to protect him an SOB

It would have been much better, IMO, for Kerry to joke it off. Instead he treats the guy very rudely.

[Crunchy Frog]

37. We have no idea if it even happened

the way the media reported. I have learned to be extremely sceptical of anything reported in the mainstream media because of how inaccurately they tend to report, and how much they spin.

I wouldn't believe anything out of the NYT unless I was there, or it had independent confirmation.

[Sparkly]

40. Were you there?

n/t

[sangha]

29. IMO, people are going to get sick of the negative campaigning

and stories. Bush* is making a really big mistake by starting out with all the negative ads and talk eight months before the election. His credibility is sinking, and the public's tolerance for negativity, never very high, is even lower than normal.

[JI7]

30. i hope so

because bush can go negative all he wants, but in the end he is the one in charge and if things don't improve and keep going down, he has to be held accountable. whatever negative things they say about kerry is not an excuse for the mess bush created. i know people got it in the primaries, but that was mostly democrats voting and they tend to be smarter. i hope the rest of the country does also and gets rid of bush.

[sangha]

32. Actually, that's EXACTLY what I think will happen

I think that, for once, the negativity will spur people to vote against Bush* as opposed to just staying home, as it usually does. I think people will be getting upset over all the negativity, and that, in combination with Kerry's pointing out all of Bush*'s lies and mistakes, are going to get many of them to vote against Bush*.

Except for the Freepers, I don't think the "Steady Leader" thing is going to fly for Bush*. Right now, Bush* still has come credibility on national security. But with Kerry slamming him on it, plus the Plame inquiry and the 9/11 Commission report, I think that may disappear.

[swag]

31. Good lord, has anyone ever heard of joking?

"I don't fall, that son of a bitch knocked me down."

Sounds like a joke to me. The straight quote doesn't convey tone too well. Maybe they should have put a smiley or a winkie after it.

Cheeses. Lighten up.

FLASHBACK: "There's Adam Clymer, major-league asshole for the New York Times!" "Yeah, Big Time!"

[zulchzulu]

33. If you believe Drudge, you'd think Kerry is the AntiChrist

I'm sure Kerry was pissed that some guy doesn't know how to deal with snow and knocked him over. Not being there but having had met him, I'd imagine it was meant to be funny. Some wiseass reporter probably said "so Senator, do you always fall down?" and he responded that he's not used to being around twerps who can't handle snow. Who the hell knows.

As for the $87B Iraq/Halliburton bill, his quote is being cherry-picked out of context and without providing the full extent of his explanation. The transcript of the statement fully complies with his opinion on why he voted against the bill unless Bush recinded the tax cut for the top 1%:

"I don't think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's irresponsible.

What is responsible is for the administration to do this properly now. And I am laying out the way in which the administration could unite the American people, could bring other countries to the table, and I think could give the American people a sense that they're on the right track. There's a way to do this properly. But I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run and not do the job."

Yeah, most people don't want long explanations for complex issues. Usually those people don't vote anyway.

[Leilani]

46. No, I don't believe Drudge

Drudge lies, & spreads propaganda for the Repugs.

But the story was in the NY Times. I used to trust the Times & read it every day. However, I lost a lot of respect for them in their coverage of the Iraqi War. They used Judith Miller's stories to root on the war effort, & it turns out her stories were all wrong. She was being fed WMD info by Chalabi & his crowd.

I guess it's not safe to trust any of the media at this point.

[cally]

34. I've heard from one or two Senate staffers

(not on Kerry's staff) that Kerry is one of the nicest Senators to staff. I think Kerry is exhausted. The snow is awful, he's probably more out of shape than he's used to, and he swore when someone knocked him over. I've yelled at someone when I was exhausted, too and then profoundly apologized and felt horrible about it. I think Kerry apologized.

I like the pictures of him snowboarding. :shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

39. As a Clark supporter, you surely

are aware of the way in which the corporate media twist and distorts in it's coverage of anyone they don't like. And they don't like Democratic candidates that pose a real threat to W or to the right wing agenda.

We've seen it time and time again, going back to Gore and Clinton, and even McCain.

I would just treat all stories in the corporate media with extreme scepticism and look for independent confirmation (not what's provided on Drudge), or other reporter's takes on what happened.

The bottom line is that whatever faults Kerry may have, Bush is unimaginably worse. We only have a choice between those two, so it is pretty clear that we have to back Kerry. He is not perfect, but we can expect his imperfections to be hugely magnified by a hostile media that gives W a free pass.

[Sparkly]

42. We've had the education

Hopefully we've learned. Does anybody still believe (did anybody *ever* believe) Gore was serious when he said his mother sang him the Union Label jingle as a lullabye?

Did we accept the lies the RNC created by splicing bits and pieces of Clark's testimony, touted as support for the Iraq invasion, without reading for ourselves?

These people are very creative. They can also get things wrong ("foreign" vs. "more"). Be skeptical -- be VERY skeptical.

Besides, if 100% of everything they throw at Kerry between now and November were TRUE, I'd still vote for him.

[Leilani]

44. Oh, I know the media stinks

Look what they did to poor Wes!

I'm just really tired of all this trash. We have so many really important issues to be addressed, but the are being ignored.

I don't think I can stand 7+ months of this.

I know we have to back Kerry, & have no doubt, I will. I hate Bush more than I can say.

Just chalk it up to a bad day, & my bad mood!

[flaminbats]

41. Drudge, Faux??? now that's reliable...

Does that writer also count articles as primary sources? :nopity:

[Robb]

43. One of my many jobs has been security for a ski mountain

When we weren't thwarting poachers or ferrying bank bags, we were taking statements at collisions.

It was almost laughable how similar all skier vs. snowboarder statements were (remember the Secret Service is on skis).

Snowboarder: "He hit me from behind, going way too fast."

Skier: "He turned right in front of me." :)

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arewethereyet]

53. its like no one was paying any attention in January

its no surprize that he is getting perforated.

we should have gone with Edwards but we didn't. we made our bed and now we get to lie in it.