Honoring the 4 state pledge required Obama to remove his name from the Michigan ballot

[rinsd]

That is the position of the Obama campaign even though the pledge said no such thing and the 1st signer of the pledge Chris Dodd (who was also key to getting the others to sign) felt it was unnecessary, given that none of the candidates were campaigning and there was potential for backlash from MI voters.

But in FL he outspent every other candidate (including most of the Republicans) even seeking permission for his TV ads as part of national buy could run for a week beforehand.

"Although the Democrats weren't able to earn delegates in Michigan or Florida, because the states scheduled early primaries without the national party's blessing, the hopefuls still spent nearly $3.4 million in those states. Hillary Clinton and Obama each spent about $130,000 in Michigan while Obama spent $1.3 million in Florida—more than any other Democratic candidate and more than eight Republican candidates, who were eligible to win delegates from the state."

http://www.capitaleye.org/inside.asp?ID=335

So Michigan required the drastic step of removing his name from the ballot, yet he spent freely in FL & ran TV ads there with permission.

Curious how the pledge was defined according to political expediency.

[babylonsister]

1. Do you know what time period he spent the money in, since you seem

so intent on getting to the truth? And for what? I don't quite know how someone can spend money on a state he's not campaigning in. Was this money spent prior to the pledge?

[yourguide]

2. Sigh

These ads were part of a NATIONAL campaign ad. The ad agency could not pull the advertising in FL only when you advertise via National means. Thus the permission from the DNC.

[rinsd]

5. He did not have permission from the DNC, contrary to Obama claiming that.

They had permission from the SC Dem Party head.

He could have waited one week until FL voted.

MI required he remove his name from the ballots, yet exception are made for FL.

Could it be his pullout from MI was a political stunt seeking to curry favor with IA & NH instead of some moral choice as put forth by Obama supporters?

[JackORoses]

10. the Pledge was not made to the DNC, and you are being dishonest by implying this

The Pledge was made to the Democratic Party in each of the Early States.

When Obama ran his National Ad, South Carolina was the only Early State remaining.
Obama requested and received permission for the Ad from the Party Chair of South Carolina.
She had helped to write the pledge. She had the authority of her Party and State.

She is the only person left who could have given the OK.

*

You are not dealing well with Hillary not doing well.
Don't let this deleteriously affect your reasoning.

[rinsd]

14. Where did I claim that? The other person claimed they had permission from the DNC

I correctly stated the permission was from the SC Dem Party head.

But again thanks for pointing out the difference taken pre & post IA & NH

pre-IA & NH he could not even participate in the election by having his name on the ballot.

Post IA & NH, he's running a surrogate campaign in MI & TV ads in FL.

[JackORoses]

17. you never attempt to defend Hillary. Is she indefensible?

Did Obama recieve permission from the Early State?
Yes.

Obama's name was not on the ballot in MI. He wouldn't have any delegates there even if it counted. It doesn't count.

There is no difference in how Obama respected the Pledge.
He did not campaign in MI or FL. The National ad buy was approved by the only person who could do so.

and come to think of it, there is no change in Hillary's disregard for the Pledge either.
She left her name on the ballot in Michigan from the get-go, and she is now fighting to seat the flawed delegations.

[rinsd]

19. Gee you should have told the Obama campaign then.

"Obama's name was not on the ballot in MI. He wouldn't have any delegates there even if it counted. It doesn't count."

Sorry for the caps.

This is the script of the John and Monica Conyers radio ad, which will be broadcast on Detroit-area stations. Monica Conyers is president pro-tem of the Detroit City Council.

MALE: THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS CONFUSING. I WANT TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA BUT OBAMA'S NAME IS NOT ON THE BALLOT.

FEMALE: THERE IS NO ONE ON THAT BALLOT I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT.

MALE: WELL, THESE FOLKS CAN HELP US. EXCUSE ME, CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS, WE NEED YOUR HELP.

FEMALE: HOW CAN WE VOTE FOR OBAMA ON TUESDAY?

Rep. Conyers: YOU CAN'T. YOU CANNOT EVEN WRITE IN OBAMA'S NAME. IF YOU DO YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT BECAUSE OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN CHOSE NOT TO PLACE HIS NAME ON THE MICHIGAN BALLOT SO AS NOT TO VIOLATE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES. BUT YOU CAN VOTE UNCOMMITTED

Councilwoman Conyers: IF AT LEAST 15% OF THE PEOPLE VOTE UNCOMMITTED, THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MUST SEND THAT PERCENTAGE OF DELEGATES TO THE NATIONAL CONVENTION UNCOMMITTED.

Rep. Conyers: MY WIFE AND I ARE VOTING UNCOMMITTED. WE WILL WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO MAKE SURE THAT UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES GO TO THAT CONVENTION TRULY UNCOMMITTED SO THAT OBAMA CAN COMPETE FOR THEIR VOTE.

MALE: THANK YOU CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS. I WILL JOIN YOU AND VOTE UNCOMMITTED ON TUESDAY.

FEMALE: ME TOO - AT LEAST MY VOTE WON'T BE WASTED

Councilwoman Conyers: THIS TRUTH IN POLITICS MESSAGE WAS PAID FOR BY FRIENDS OF MONICA CONYERS

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/09/voters_face_confusion_in_michi.html

"There is no difference in how Obama respected the Pledge."

The drastic measure of removing one's self from the ballot vs seeking permission to run campaign ads on TV.

Yup no difference at all :eyes:

[JackORoses]

21. the call for Uncommitted was only an attempt to thwart Hillary's plan there

It was obvious by then that she was planning to claim MI as a big victory, and start pressing the idea that it counted for something.
And in fact, that is just what she did and is doing.

Obama's name was not on the MI ballot.

You are just blaming Uncommitted on him because it challenged Hillary's dominion like he is doing.

[rinsd]

23. But they knew that was a possibility when they removed their name in the 1st place.

That was part of the political reasoning.

They figured with no campaigning MI & FL would be decided largely on name recognition.

By removing their names from the ballot they (Edwards campaign as well) thought they could blunt any victory talk coming out MI. But when Obama took IA and Hillary took NH, the Obama campaign needed to blunt that even further hence the uncommitted campaign.

[still_one]

3. The problem is the DNC told MI and FL NOT to move their primaries up

or they would not be counted. MI and FL violated that.

Even Clinton's advisor, Harold Ickes, voted that MI and FL should be stripped of their delegates because of that action.


The DNC offered a redo using a caucaus, which the DNC would pay for entirely, BOTH MI and FL rejected that

The problem is the politicians in MI and FL

They didn't obey the rules

[Bad Thoughts]

4. Facile

You can read about this over at MyDD, where Jereme Armstrong is being raked over the coals for insinuating Obama campaigned in Florida. The truth is:

1. Most of the money was spent before the no-campaigning pledge was made
2. No has proven the money was spent in a way to solicit votes.
3. The national (yes, national) ad buy was approved by the DNC.
4. It's probable that most money was spent fundraising, which was legit.

[rinsd]

6. The national ad buy was never approved by the DNC.

The campaign got permission from the SC Dem Party chair not the DNC even though Obama did claim that.

The DNC had no position on the ads.

"It's probable that most money was spent fundraising, which was legit."

Yes it is.

I just find the juxaposition of the drastic measure in MI vs the kid gloves treatment for FL to put to lie the story that the MI ballot was about honoring the pledge.

I just wish Obama supporters would admit what was obviously a naked political stunt.

Is it just inconceivible that the man is actually a politician?

[Lucinda]

7. I'd say more "expected" than curious.

He's a shapeshifter.

[rinsd]

8. He's a politician.

Its not even like this behavior is out of bounds.

What is obnoxious are the claims of moral infallability from his supporters.

[Lucinda]

11. It reminds me of our Rep family members and friends excusing juniors every flaw

It's great to support a candidate...but people really need to take the blinders off...

[JackORoses]

9. you haven't even read the pledge, have you?

Four State Pledge Letter 2008

Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina

August 31, 2007

WHEREAS, over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to ensure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I xxx, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

Democratic Candidate for President



***

"Not Campaign or Participate"

That is why Obama and others removed their names in Michigan. They were trying to follow the pledge as closely as they could. This wasn't possible in Florida because you must be on the Primary Ballot to be in the General Election.

Hillary saw an opportunity for later advantage, dragged her feet, and left her name on the MI ballot. She didn't care about the intent of the Pledge. This is obvious.

She has planned all along to try and claim these damaged delegations.
I have been telling you this.

To Hell with the Party, the People, and Principles... Hillary wants to be President.

[rinsd]

12. Dragged her feet? Neither she nor Dodd had any intention of removing their names.

"That is why Obama and others removed their names in Michigan. They were trying to follow the pledge as closely as they could. This wasn't possible in Florida because you must be on the Primary Ballot to be in the General Election."

No, Obama & Edwards got wind that Biden & Richardson were attempting this political stunt and jumped on in the last minute.

They figured that state was lost to Hillary.

After IA & NH had voted, they ran a surrogate campaign to get people to vote undecided even running radio ads discussing Obama's name and how his supporters should vote.

He also sought special permission to run a national ad buy (when he could have waited a week) that reached millions of FL voters for the week prior to the primary.

"Honoring the pledge" was a political move that had nothing to do with honor or the pledge as you can see by his actions post IA & NH.

[JackORoses]

15. I noticed you ignored the text of the Pledge, not liking the language, are you?

why did Hillary think she should be allowed to participate in the Michigan primary?
the pledge specifically says 'no participation'.

Does Hillary truly have such little regard for Honor?

He received the permission to run the National Ad.

Did Hillary make any request to the Early States to see if she could remain on the MI ballot?
No, she didn't even consider it.

[rinsd]

18. Because quotes out of context don't work for me.

"I xxx, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC."

Gotta read the whole quote there jack.

Don't you find it curious that none of the 4 states asked for the candidates to remove their names.

That would have made sense no? As opposed to being a political stunt to curry favor with IA & NH by half the candidates?

[JackORoses]

20. that is defining 'campaigning', not participation

they are stated separately in the Pledge. and beyond that, you know that Hillary did not adhere to the intent of the Pledge.
parse it however you will to justify her actions.

Haven't you already admitted that Hillary's attempt to seat these flawed delegations is a bad idea?

How can you then be defending these actions which she took to make this attempt possible?

[rinsd]

22. Her attempts to seat these delegates as a means of winning the nomination is a bad idea.

Seeking to have them seated in itself is not a bad thing.

"How can you then be defending these actions which she took to make this attempt possible?"

Because I am sick of the mooning over Obama by his supporters here calling this some kind of moral decision when it was a naked political move.

If I can admit that seeking to seat the delegates to win is bad why can't you admit removing his name from the ballot had less to do with the pledge than with political considerations?

[HeraldSquare212]

13. Three other candidates removed their names on the same day as Obama - I guess they agreed with him

[dionysus]

16. you guys are finally starting to run out of bullshit.

sweet