I've heard it all now. Clinton siding with McCain on Obama Public Financing for the GE

[Thrill]

Unreal.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4303783&page=1

[stray cat]

1. As if Hillary will take public financing if it means losing to McCain

[anigbrowl]

53. Well, that's OK because she didn't promise to do so. Or some similar BS.

[NC_Nurse]

2. He hasn't at this point. The primary isn't over.

I bet he will agree to it once the conventions are over.

Where does she get off talking about that anyway? She is not even considering doing that.

[stray cat]

4. I think he would be crazy to go with public financing

He can out fundraise McCain and McCain knows it...

[NC_Nurse]

12. By the time the GE occurs, he will have raised many millions more than

McLame. There will only be 2 months left. It won't matter. Clinton is blowing smoke.
I think he should do it as long as McLame agrees to do the same - starting Sept. 1st.

[grantcart]

27. they can raise it and put it into the DNC

[Thrill]

5. I don't understand her getting into this. When it comes to the GE

we're suppose to be on the same side.

[joeybee12]

11. Because BO said he was gonna do it...now he's backtracking

because it would hurt him in the GE...he should have kept his mouth shut. Hilary said a long time ago she woudn't accept public financing...she's not the one changing her mind...McCain and the Repukes have an in, because they're pointing he's saying one thing and doing another when it suits him.

[NC_Nurse]

14. We're not in the GE yet. He can't do it until the primary is over since

Clinton isn't going to.

[joeybee12]

15. You ain't getting it...he said MONTHS ago he would do that if he got

the nom...now he's saying he'll think about it...McCain is saying he's breaking his promise and it's an attack that hjas trsaction because it's BO's words against BO words...face it, he blew it on this.

[stray cat]

21. I heard the quote on the news - Obama said he would consider it

in the past. Is there now a link where he previously promised to take public financing in the GE or is he being misrepresented by the media and the Clintons from the original quote where he agreed to consider it? Is there a video link to a promise? If so please post.

[creeksneakers2]

29. Its explained at the ABC link in the OP

[stray cat]

41. Thanks! Sorry I missed it.

[NC_Nurse]

23. He hasn't gotten the Nom yet. I remember when Edwards

decided to go with public financing, it hurt him with a lot of primary voters. They decided he
could never win that way.

[babylonsister]

25. McCain protests too much, Obama can do what he wants, and why IS

Clinton getting involved anyway? Distraction from her lousy campaigning? :think:

[mondo joe]

43. Why shouldn't she point out that her opponent has a twitchy sense of what his word is worth?

[TheDoorbellRang]

40. He said he would do it if his opponents agreed to it, also

here's his quote from the link:

In a questionnaire for the Midwest Democracy Network, the details of which were released on November 27, 2007, Senator Obama was asked: "If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in presidential public financing system?"

He answered: ""Yes. I have been a long-time advocate for public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests."

But later in his answer he also said: "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

Here's what he said last Friday:

"If I am the nominee I will make sure our people talk to John McCain's people to find out if we are willing to abide by the same rules and regulations with respect to the general election going forward. It would be presumptuous of me to start saying now that I am locking in to something when I don't even know if the other side will agree to it. And I'm not the nominee yet. We're trying to get through this process. As soon as we do I assure you my folks and John McCain's folks will sit down and see if we can arrive at a common set of ground rules," Obama told reporters.

Here's Clinton's position on public financing:

Clinton has never said she would accept public financing if she were the Democratic nominee, even if the Republican candidate made that commitment.

How is that backtracking? He's said the same thing both times: that he'll use public financing if the other side abides by the same rules. Clinton won't even go that far, it seems.

BTW public financing is one more step toward campaign finance reform. You say Hillary would never accept public financing as if that's a good thing.

[creeksneakers2]

28. Its about Obama going back on his word

not about taking public financing or not.

Hillary gets off on it because she didn't make a false promise to get votes.

[Hydra]

3. God, this election cycle get's more like the twilight zone every day

He answered: "Yes. I have been a long-time advocate for public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests."

But later in his answer he also said: "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

Last week, Obama spokesman Burton indicated that public financing was more of an "option" than a "pledge".

Geez, that sounds like something HRC or Bushco would say...

[KittyWampus]

Obama's half million small-scale donors ARE Public Financing & Clinton apparently has ceded the race

to Obama.

Stupid move.

The whole point of Public Financing was to take Big Money Lobbyists out of the equation.

Obama has been raising money from individual small donors.

Solution? Tell McCain the deal is limiting donations to $200 per person AND eliminating 527's like Freedom Watch.

[joeybee12]

6. Obama never should have said he'd take it..now he's backtracking...

...that's the point of all this...he has changed his mind because it suits him.

Hilary said, up front, she would not take public financing.

[TheDonkey]

34. No, he will still that it if McCain does

and when he is the nominee.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Earth To Clinton: Romney Lost

Not sure of the point of imitating his ever-changing positions bit.

[TexasObserver]

8. Hillary is sounding more and more like a DINO.

She's already sold out to the globalists, the insurance lobby, and the war lobby.

[DJ13]

9. Well, she HAS stated McCain is a friend of hers

And she IS running a GOP style of campaign, so I dont expect anything else from her at this point.

[bluestateguy]

10. It was a foolish promise to make in the first place

I don't judge presidents on the basis of promises kept or broken, like some little score sheet. I still remember Bill Clinton's much touted "middle class tax cut" from 1992, that fell by the wayside as soon as Inauguration Day. Yet it was the right thing to do, and made the most sense to balance the budget. It was a promise that simply never should have been made.

Obama will be facing not just Jack mcCain, but also Ari Fliescher's 250 million dollar "Freedom Watch" ads. They can spend however much they like, and are not bound by federal law, or any agreement between the candidates. They are "independent".

Jack Kerry was much criticized for not responding quickly to the Swift Boaters in 2004. Part of the reason for his slow and lame response was that he would have had to spend valuable general election matching funds on counter-ads, when he needed that money for the homestretch of the campaign. Hence, he basically let the Swift Boaters attacks go unanswered.

[billyoc]

13. Oh, no, you haven't heard it all, believe me... nt

[zabet]

16. It is obvious you think flip-flopping on an issue is OK....

Just because Obama has already been jabbed on
this by the McCain camp, does not necessarily
mean it is OK to say one thing and later say you
only meant it in theory.

The only place in the article that mentions McCain
is Obama conceding that he will work with McCain
on this issue. If he was right to start with, wouldn't
he stand his ground? Or is this the waffling pattern
starting to appear?

"If I am the nominee I will make sure our people talk to John McCain's people to find out if we are willing to abide by the same rules and regulations with respect to the general election going forward. It would be presumptuous of me to start saying now that I am locking in to something when I don't even know if the other side will agree to it. And I'm not the nominee yet. We're trying to get through this process. As soon as we do I assure you my folks and John McCain's folks will sit down and see if we can arrive at a common set of ground rules," Obama told reporters."

[CitizenLeft]

17. whatever he may have said about public financing...

...Obama should counter, as he's already doing, with McCain's sudden backing of Bush's tax cuts for the rich, then emphasize how much more important and damaging THAT is - underlining the fact that letting those tax cuts expire is NOT "raising your taxes," the lie McCain has been telling. And call him on the lie.

Unless Obama actually said "I PLEDGE blah blah blah," McCain can go fuck himself. :) Obama would be insane to agree to that now. It would be suicide.

[MethuenProgressive]

18. SPIN!! The title of your link is: "Clinton Campaign Accuses Obama of Breaking Word"

Wow, you guys are desperate! :rofl:

[UALRBSofL]

19. It will show the american public how Obama Flip-Flops

Whether it has traction we will see. But Obama needs to be exposed for his inability to take a stand on something without changing his mind midway through. Or the fact he dodges important votes for political ambition.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

20. The word "rovean" comes to mind... n/t

[AtomicKitten]

22. She represents the (D) side of the Money Party.

[Vinca]

24. Is Hillary indicating she wants Obama to lose if he's the nominee?

So much for her loyalty to the Democratic Party.

[Yael]

33. If she can't have it, whats to stop her?

Sets up a 2012 run.

[Gnister]

26. Betrayal of the Democratic Party!

I cant believe this! Clinton siding with the republicans. I'm starting to feel that somewhere some of us democrats has lost understanding of what is really important, i.e. beating the republican nominee in November.

When i read that Clinton joins in with McCain on these attacks I got really, really ANGRY. Seems that the Clintons wont stop for nothing in order to get what they want. Siding with the republicans and changing the rules when it fits them. Give me a break somebody said a while ago.......well i think it is time for a certain campaign to take a break and really reflect on what they are doing....which is betraying the Democratic Party and ruining our chances in November.

Lets all join to beat republicans in November!!!

[Divernan]

35. If McCain won, Clinton could be his point person in Senate.

This was mentioned by someone over in Huffposts. If Obama wins the GE, Clinton is pretty much out in the cold. However, if her good friend, McCain wins, Clinton could be his intermediary/point person with the Senate Dems - giving her lots of publicity and power. That would position her better to run for the presidency again. I don't think she'd win 4 years from now either. She is a True Believer in herself, regardless of the overall damage to her party. I think she'll lose to Obama in the primary - but kicking and screaming down to the bitter end - or as Bill would say, until the last dog dies. She'll drag this out, forcing Obama to spend more money opposing her, and forcing Obama to defend himself from coordinated attacks on two fronts - from her and from McCain.

Compare her actions to Ted Kennedy's. After Chappaquidick, he gave up his presidential aspirations and was showered with ridicule and hatred. Many wealthy men in his position would simply have disappeared from the public arena and lived a life of great comfot and ease. And as the remaining brother/uncle, he certainly had many time-consuming family demands which he shouldered for decades. He has remained in public service, in the best sense of those words, and championed the welfare of those Americans not able to hire and fund K Street Lobbyists. At this point in his life, he has trouble even walking, and looks to be in physical pain when he does so. But he soldiers on.

I fear that the whole Lewinsky/impeachment spectacle, not to mention the concommitant, international, and worst public humiliation any betrayed wife has ever had to endure, have warped her significant intelligence to the point that her personnel and management decisions are based on loyalty, not capability. We also hear from her staff leaks that they are afraid to go to her with any bad news. Such a person would have a disastrous presidency.

[Tarc]

30. Shouldn't we be urging ALL candidates to accept the restrictions of public financing?

[TheDonkey]

36. For shame. Not Hillary's campaign. She needs big money lobbyist to fuel her to the WH

and by then they will have dropped her for McCain anyway.

[stray cat]

42. I agree but I also want the dems to win

I don't think McCain will do as well as the dem nominee in fundraising. Although nonprogressive in tone - I would like the dems to have more money than the repubs because I don't want 4 more years of Bush-like rule.

[Ravy]

31. Clinton AND Obama supporters blasted Edwards for taking public financing.

But Obama promised to use it for the general election.

[TheDonkey]

37. if his opponent does

to ensure a fair playing field. Sounds good to me.

[Ravy]

39. McCain will, I have no doubts about that. nt

[RoadRage]

32. Anything Clinton can do to Win - she will.

Obama has NOT yet backtracked on anything.. he wants to work something out with McCain's people. He also doesn't want to get ahead of himself.. reminder, he needs to win a primary before this even becomes an issue.

But, Clinton is yet again cutting off her face to save her nose. "I can make Obama look bad - i'm IN!"

Nevermind if this is something that would end up backing Obama into giving up what could be a huge advantage to win the entire election this fall.

I think he should agree to it.. ironically, he doesn't need all of the $$$ that McCain does to get the same results. Thousands of people show up to his rallys, Hundreds show up every day begging to volunteer for him. He can still win this, but Hillary had to jump in and take any swipe she could against a member of her own team.

It's like a race car driver in 3rd place trying to knock out a driver on her own team. That way neither of them gets to cross the finish line first.

[mondo joe]

45. Why shouldn't she point out his little problem with sticking to what he said?

It speaks to his reliability, especially given his lack of experience.

[Satyagrahi]

49. You should really stop defending right-wing talking points. n/t

[mondo joe]

50. It's a RW talking point to point out Obama changing his mind?

Hm.

[Satyagrahi]

57. It is John McCain who is talking about a "pledge" allegedly made by Obama.

John McCain threw down the gauntlet with Barack Obama for the second day in a row Friday, this time accusing the Illinois senator of trying to renege on a pledge to accept public financing in a general election campaign ... .

http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/02/15/mccain-vs-obama-round-2-gop-front-runner-challenges-obama-on-general-election-funding/

Obama never made such a pledge:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4632762&mesg_id=4634867

So when you claim that Obama made a "pledge", you are in fact using a right-wing talking point by McCain. Make no mistake about it:

John McCain is taunting Barack Obama to agree, now, to take public financing for the general election and eschew private funding. We know already that "FreedomWatch", a rightwing 527 managed by former Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer, is raising money to launch its attack on whomever the Democrats nominate. And, they will raise much more than $38 million.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/should-obama-or-clinton-t_b_86973.html

[BzaDem]

51. How is candor right-wing?

Obama said he would go with public financing if he were the eventual nominee. That was a popular position at the time. Why shouldn't it be pointed out that he is changing his position? Why should he get the benefit of being pro-public-financing last year AND the benefit of opting out of public financing now? Granted, I think it was a stupid promise to make in the first place, with the limitless 527-attack-groups out there. But I don't see how it is right-wing to point out his change in position.

[RoadRage]

55. It's not the attack itself.. it's who the attack is coming from..

McCain attacking on this... I get. And, I understand why.. Obama has out raised him millions over. It's to McCains HUGE advantage to get Obama to agree to this.. obviously no one thought Obama (including himself) would raise near the $$$ he did. And, he'll probably still agree to it.

But, for Clinton to hop on this wagon.. again is hypocritical. She never agreed to it, she will spend every dime she has (ironically, not many right now) and do whatever needed to win. But, she's going to prematurely throw Obama under the bus for this?

McCain could have attacked this and she could have just stayed out of the way. The message would have been the same. But the fact that she's so eager to sleep with the "enemy" to cut at someone on her own "team" just yet again shows how she'll do anything to win.

And, I think i'm officially putting her in the "Even if she wins the nomination, I am not going to vote for her" catagory. Play nice, or don't play at all.

[Satyagrahi]

58. Distortions are right-wing. And Obama never made such a "pledge".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4632762&mesg_id=4639806

[mondo joe]

38. Don't blame her for him being wishy washy on his pledge.

[Satyagrahi]

46. Obama never made such a pledge.

I described this a few weeks ago as a "pledge" to participate, but I should not have. Obama's precise statement was, and has always been, "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election." That's an artful statement, and it's not artful in a "meaning of 'is'" sense -- it's exactly the right answer. A commitment to "preserve a publicly financed election" would have to mean much more than whether both participate in the system. It would require some significant agreement about how to handle outside money, 527s, "Swift Boat"-type attack groups, party money, etc., and other factors that have undermined the last two publicly financed elections, from both sides. It is hardly an evasion to describe this as an agreement to be negotiated, rather than a simple pledge.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=would_you_make_a_pledge_with_t

[BzaDem]

52. Here is what Obama actually said

On November 27, 2007, the Midwest Democracy Network, an alliance of 20 civic and public interest groups based in Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Wisconsin, released the results of a questionnaire that they sent to all of the presidential candidates.

If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in presidential public financing system?

You answered this question as follows:

OBAMA: *************** Yes. **************** I have been a long-time advocate for public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time.....


http://www.lwv.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Letters_to_Congress_and_The_President&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=10687

[Satyagrahi]

56. Here is the full quote:

"Question I-B:
If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private
funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing
system?

(snip)

OBAMA: Yes. I have been a long-time advocate for public financing of campaigns combined
with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests.
I introduced public financing legislation in the Illinois State Senate, and am the only 2008
candidate to have sponsored Senator Russ Feingold’s (D-WI) bill to reform the presidential
public financing system. In February 2007, I proposed a novel way to preserve the strength of the
public financing system in the 2008 election. My plan requires both major party candidates to
agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public
financing system for the general election. My proposal followed announcements by some
presidential candidates that they would forgo public financing so they could raise unlimited
funds in the general election. The Federal Election Commission ruled the proposal legal, and
Senator John McCain (r-AZ) has already pledged to accept this fundraising pledge. If I am the
Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to
preserve a publicly financed general election."

Also interesting in this context:

"Issue: 527 Groups

Question I-D:
Do you believe that Section 527 groups which are organized primarily to affect federal elections
should be required by the Federal Election Commission and/or Congress to comply with the
campaign finance laws that apply to all other candidate, party and political committees whose
goal is to influence federal elections?

(snip)

OBAMA: Yes."

PDF

Mark Schmitt's comments were based on the same questionnaire:

I described this a few weeks ago as a "pledge" to participate, but I should not have. Obama's precise statement was, and has always been, "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election." That's an artful statement, and it's not artful in a "meaning of 'is'" sense -- it's exactly the right answer. A commitment to "preserve a publicly financed election" would have to mean much more than whether both participate in the system. It would require some significant agreement about how to handle outside money, 527s, "Swift Boat"-type attack groups, party money, etc., and other factors that have undermined the last two publicly financed elections, from both sides. It is hardly an evasion to describe this as an agreement to be negotiated, rather than a simple pledge.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=would_you_make_a_pledge_with_t

So Obama's "yes" was a qualified yes, requiring an agreement about groups like Ari Fleischer's "Freedom's Watch".

[IndianaGreen]

54. Like Hillary's pledge to abide by DNC decision on Florida and Michigan

The endless whining from the Clinton campaign reminds me of a Mafia don complaining a rival's law breaking

[BringBigDogBack]

44. Holy fucking wow.

Wow.

[johnnydrama]

47. i wonder

if she has some more kindergarten essays from Obama that she can send over to the McCain campaign.

[Thrill]

48. How many times is that this week?

Where she has sided with McCain to attack Obama. Its amazing.